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Astal Atlar
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2007.11.19 21:40:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Astal Atlar on 19/11/2007 21:45:52
Well as most of you already know, dictors base speed is getting nerfed. So now we dictor pilots will not only die even faster we will even ger more useless then before.
I try not to post on the forum there is too much saying and no real proposal. But as dictor pilot i wonder why they do this.
Flycatcher is already slow as hell
Ares is not better
Heretic in his current state is nice ship 4.7 with good navigation skills full t2 without rigs and snake imp.
Sabre is fastest ect,i will not speak for it we all know what a sabre can do.
So to balance one ship they nerf a whole class of ships it is stupid.Dictors are supposed to kill ceptors like destroyers kill t1 frigs. But with 4k/s or less there is no dictor that can be able to do this.And as you are most of the time primary and your only chance is ti outrun and warp out we will not be able to do this after the change.
And with introducing of the heavy dictors things will go even worse for dictors.
Personaly i think dictors will keep their role in the current pvp enviroment but man we are already walking dead coffins why you make it even worse.
Bulgarian experienced *****ers - the OSS |
Mr Ignitious
Gallente
Kingpins
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Posted - 2007.11.19 22:03:00 -
[2]
gallente dictor isn't the ares, its the eris, just so you know...i don't fly em, just wanted to correct you  ares is our 2 midslot inty
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Kal Shakai
Dominus Imperium
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Posted - 2007.11.19 22:06:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Astal Atlar
we will even ger more useless then before.
Stopped reading here tbh.
Even being slower, they will still be very desirable to have along.
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Astal Atlar
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2007.11.19 22:24:00 -
[4]
yeah desirable but how many suicidal pilots you know.
I dont mind taking my dictor out but for small roaming gangs.
I know they are presious and in big fleet but when i know i am dead the moment i show up on the grid and can't run i will prefer my bs or recon my falcon will do same good even better and may at least survive as my dictor will not.
As for heavy dictors we will see nothing is sure before we test them ingame.
Bulgarian experienced *****ers - the OSS |
SPAgent Scully
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Posted - 2007.11.19 22:30:00 -
[5]
I have to apologize for the dictor nerf. You see I just got finished training for them, and CCP immediately nerfs whatever I just finish training. Sorry.
PS: Don't get too attached to controlling POS guns. I finish anchoring 5 in a week.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.19 23:04:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Astal Atlar
yeah desirable but how many suicidal pilots you know.
I dont mind taking my dictor out but for small roaming gangs.
I know they are presious and in big fleet but when i know i am dead the moment i show up on the grid and can't run i will prefer my bs or recon my falcon will do same good even better and may at least survive as my dictor will not.
As for heavy dictors we will see nothing is sure before we test them ingame.
Then selfish guy like you will use falcon or bs. Those who want to help GANG or FLEET will use dictors. Its not about you surviving but about helping your mates kill enemies.
As for suicides? Flown dictors when they were much slower and didnt lose many of em, so nothing changes. Sabre can still hit over 5km/s...
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Peanut Swsh
Interstellar eXodus
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.11.20 00:51:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Peanut Swsh on 20/11/2007 00:55:44
the problem isn't so much that dictors are now slow, its more that they are now slower then most hacs, and much much slower then interceptors, and even slower then some t1 frigs. yes interdictors currently already are slower then some hacs, and slower then interceptors but this nerf is gonna make the difference massive.
in trinity dictors are gonna get absolutely pwned by any interceptor which can do damage out of web range.
new flycatchers do 2600m/s, sabres do 3600m/s. with speed fits. most t1 frigs can hit sabre speeds, and most inteceptors do well over 5k/s, most of them do 6k/s+ so they will run rings around dictors and kill them fairly easily.
so looks like dictors are gonna be dedicated gang boats now, pretty much the only thing else you will be able to do with them will be to gank haulers, because anything else competantly flown is either gonna kill you, or be able to run away from you.
if your gonna nerf dictor speeds, then you need to nerf all other ship speeds to be inline with this.
to be honest thou, i'm struggling to see what is wrong with dictor speeds atm? if you don't like nano-ships, then speed nerf ships across the board, dont' just single out the interdictor.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.11.20 01:05:00 -
[8]
Pointless whine. Dictors are like interceptors on steroids. Dictors needed a speed nerf. Or why would anyone fly an interceptor?
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Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.20 02:06:00 -
[9]
whine or not, the truth is that the only dictor that needed balance was the sabre.
the rest was fairly ok'ish.
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planetary interaction idea! |
Peanut Swsh
Interstellar eXodus
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.11.20 02:13:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Peanut Swsh on 20/11/2007 02:14:07
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Pointless whine. Dictors are like interceptors on steroids. Dictors needed a speed nerf. Or why would anyone fly an interceptor?
how does this make any sense? interdictors are slower then interceptors, usually by about 20-30%.
people see 1 polycarbed/gistii/snakeset sabre, and now they think that all interdictors go 10k/s wtf.
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Shardrael
Caldari
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.11.20 02:16:00 -
[11]
nerf peanut tbo :p
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.20 02:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Peanut Swsh
people see 1 polycarbed/gistii/snakeset sabre, and now they think that all interdictors go 10k/s wtf.
Mine goes 12k/s out of gang and I don't even have a fully HG Snake set.
It's not important though, in gang with mindlink + speed module on CS they will still go really fast (most ships do anyway...)
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
Astal Atlar
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2007.11.20 04:46:00 -
[13]
Thanks for the positive replies.
Most of the other seems to never have flown a dictor and jsut comment.
Well there is no like a selfish dictor pilot but when you die for 10 seconds you cant help your gang.So better use other ships and leave ceptors to tackle with the new bonuses of some of thme they will do it fairly easy from 28-32km.
The problem in the change is that it was said only the sabre have a decent speed and now they will nerf all of them.
I am not whining whine is to want to change vaga or amars or ect.This is game ccp made we will play what ever they change
But one of most presious gang ships is getting nerfed to hell from them because of only 1 ship in the whole class.
It is pointless yes sabre is owning mashine right now nerf it speed drop it to arround 5-6k/s and all will be fine.
Bulgarian experienced *****ers - the OSS |
Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.20 04:48:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Ryysa on 20/11/2007 04:51:17
Actually it's not the sabre that is going REALLY fast by itself.
If you polycarbfit a flycatcher + gistii MWD + snakes you go fast too.
But people don't seem to realize that you can make about any ship go really fast with polycarbs + gistii + snakes.
You do realize that a Sabre going 11k/s out of gang has a price of about 2B right?
And what can a sabre kill solo anyway besides a couple stupid ceptors and some haulers? Not much, unless the opposing pilot is a complete moron.
Imo, all the dictors could use a slight boost. Sabre should still be the fastest (minmatar), but not as pronounced. There has to be some sort of compensation for flying the ship that gets primaried all day long.
What makes sabre pwn is barrage + ac's, more than anything.
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation
Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.20 05:02:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ryysa
Edited by: Ryysa on 20/11/2007 04:51:17
Actually it's not the sabre that is going REALLY fast by itself.
If you polycarbfit a flycatcher + gistii MWD + snakes you go fast too.
But people don't seem to realize that you can make about any ship go really fast with polycarbs + gistii + snakes.
You do realize that a Sabre going 11k/s out of gang has a price of about 2B right?
And what can a sabre kill solo anyway besides a couple stupid ceptors and some haulers? Not much, unless the opposing pilot is a complete moron.
Imo, all the dictors could use a slight boost. Sabre should still be the fastest (minmatar), but not as pronounced. There has to be some sort of compensation for flying the ship that gets primaried all day long.
What makes sabre pwn is barrage + ac's, more than anything.
Yeah, this is about right. I've had a hauler tank my Sabre. 
Liang
--
Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU.
Yarr? |
Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation
Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.20 05:03:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 20/11/2007 05:03:36
Originally by: Astal Atlar
Thanks for the positive replies.
Most of the other seems to never have flown a dictor and jsut comment.
Well there is no like a selfish dictor pilot but when you die for 10 seconds you cant help your gang.So better use other ships and leave ceptors to tackle with the new bonuses of some of thme they will do it fairly easy from 28-32km.
The problem in the change is that it was said only the sabre have a decent speed and now they will nerf all of them.
I am not whining whine is to want to change vaga or amars or ect.This is game ccp made we will play what ever they change
But one of most presious gang ships is getting nerfed to hell from them because of only 1 ship in the whole class.
It is pointless yes sabre is owning mashine right now nerf it speed drop it to arround 5-6k/s and all will be fine.
Nerfing polycarbs (sadly) or snakes (GRR) would fix almost all speed issues in Eve.
Liang
Ed: I'd like to see polys just a *little* bit less effective, and the other rigs be more effective at what they're supposed to do.
Actually, I'd like *ALL* the rigs to be actually useful at what they're supposed to do.
Saving 5% CPU on a 2 CPU module? yay?
--
Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU.
Yarr? |
Astal Atlar
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2007.11.20 05:38:00 -
[17]
Quote:
Actually it's not the sabre that is going REALLY fast by itself.
[/url]
In fact i take the rigs in mind but tell me who flies snakes and faction mvd,ect on a dictor with the lag that currently hit you everytime with above 40-50 in the battle.
Ryussa thanks for the replies there is thought in them i like your guides man.and you really seems to understand why i post the topic.
what i think as i mentioned above nerf a little the speed of sabre and dictors will be fine,if they got speed nerf to hell they will become horrible to fly not able to tank not able to speed tank.
Bulgarian experienced *****ers - the OSS |
Satura
Caldari
Mucho Dolor
The Insomniacs
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Posted - 2007.11.20 05:56:00 -
[18]
Uncalled nerf tbh, and is pretty big. 100m/s or something, right? Sucks when you have to aproach a fleet, bubble them and get out of it, even with 10km/s things can get very wrong.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.20 05:56:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Astal Atlar
In fact i take the rigs in mind but tell me who flies snakes and faction mvd,ect on a dictor with the lag that currently hit you everytime with above 40-50 in the battle.
Would give you lots of dictor pilot names that use snake+gistii/polys in pvp (even 20-40man gang combat) but guess it would make em primary all the time.
As for fleet combat - you dont use snakes/gistii. You use cheap setups (tho still i know some ppl who would use snakes/gistii sabres in fleet).
Also - there are ways to get sabre on top of enemy even if you fly 1km/s. Maybe its time to learn how to use "teamwork"? And as i dont have time to reply later: that module is called recon probe launcher on covops ship. Yes it works in fleet.
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Satura
Caldari
Mucho Dolor
The Insomniacs
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Posted - 2007.11.20 06:01:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Satura on 20/11/2007 06:00:52
Quote:
Also - there are ways to get sabre on top of enemy even if you fly 1km/s. Maybe its time to learn how to use "teamwork"? And as i dont have time to reply later: that module is called recon probe launcher on covops ship. Yes it works in fleet.
Dude, even a blind man could do that. But that dictor you are talking about is like a condom in this case. No way he will get out. It's dead the moment he warps to his cov ops pilot. |
Dangerously Cheesey
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.20 06:12:00 -
[21]
I guess we should all be thankful that the invention success rate for dictors is going up - sure your going to die in every fight, but at least it won't cost as much to replace your sabre each time! Oh and just about anything with decent stats with polycarbons/gistii/snakes goes really, really fast.
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Astal Atlar
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2007.11.20 06:13:00 -
[22]
Deva Blackfire- can agree but as I said above dictors will be viable in the small gangs.Yeah you fly snakes gisti in small gangs but in fleet dictors become useless.
I will take my snake jc and use it roaming because i know the speed will safe me but warping in on a fleet bubling laging like hell i will not use it.
And yes we know what is team work,but as Satura states the moment you warp on your warp in point you are primaried and death.
So this nerf will make the thinks even worse.And now the sabre is the only dictor most of the people fly but after change it maybe stay the only dictor possible to fly at all.
There is a lot more things to be balanced then the dictors at all.
As example it is not normal a vaga to fly faster or as fast as ceptor.
As i said already dictors are meant to kill ceptors this is what their t1 equivalent do they should do it too.But even now and after the change it is not that easy only the sabre excel there with the ac and the high speed every well fitted ceptor can outrun dictors right now.
Bulgarian experienced *****ers - the OSS |
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.20 06:29:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 20/11/2007 06:30:10
Originally by: Satura
Edited by: Satura on 20/11/2007 06:00:52
Quote:
Also - there are ways to get sabre on top of enemy even if you fly 1km/s. Maybe its time to learn how to use "teamwork"? And as i dont have time to reply later: that module is called recon probe launcher on covops ship. Yes it works in fleet.
Dude, even a blind man could do that. But that dictor you are talking about is like a condom in this case. No way he will get out. It's dead the moment he warps to his cov ops pilot.
My sabre/gistii thingy does 6km/s on sisi. Thats enough i guess. 3-4km/s (for t2 only dictor) is also enough to gtfo. You DO NOT need to fly 5km/s to run, its pretty doable in slower ships.
Also you do not warp TO covops pilot. This way you waste time = ebnemy fleet realigned already. Seems not every "blind man" can do this.
EDIT:
as for fixing problems: polys/snakes. But then youd hear outcry from "we are sooo nerfed" vaga pilots.
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Satura
Caldari
Mucho Dolor
The Insomniacs
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Posted - 2007.11.20 06:50:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Satura on 20/11/2007 06:54:46
Edited by: Satura on 20/11/2007 06:50:59
Whatever your method is, that's not important.
Thing is, a dictor pilot has way lower chance to get out alive once he spits out a bubble after the nerf. 100ish m/s from the base speed is a lot, and tbh, not that many people fly 2b setups. Specially with dictors, because there is 100% chance to pop those implants if cought in your own bubble.
edit: and faction modules shouldn't be included in this thread tbh. Let's talk t2, with "regular" implants. The gist/snake guys should be imbalanced anyway, since they spend a fortune on thosethings. |
Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.20 08:17:00 -
[25]
They're not imbalanced, they're just endgame.
They're about as imbalanced as a titan's jumpbridge, or a raven with crystal shieldtank, or uhm, a good player who has played for 2 years and knows game mechanics well.
It's like, the ultimate weapon with the ultimate price, which also takes a huge amount of skill compared to sitting there and tanking. One tiny mistake and you, and your snakes/polys/titan/uber raven blow up.
More risk, more reward.
EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music |
Golem Pyle
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Posted - 2007.11.20 08:36:00 -
[26]
meh, nerf snakes, balance 3x ODJ, 2x Poly ships. No need for Dictor Nerf then.
This turns all Dictors into overpriced, slightly quicker AF's with crap tank and large sig radius. Sabre with ODJ II, Nano II, Poly/Aux thruster goes 4300m/s... it's shameful. Time to "Flavor Up" with snaked out dual poly ships. With changes to sensor boosters, tracking comp now using script, Nano's are going to be the only way to PVP when not ZomgWTFblobbing.
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Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
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Posted - 2007.11.20 08:40:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Shan''Talasha Mea''Questa on 20/11/2007 08:40:53
Maybe the price of the sabre will go down too,
but since I use my Eris for salvaging I'd be really upset if they dropped it base cargohold down a notch. 
Edit: Spelling 4tw.
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Originally by: Paper
Rock's fine, nerf Scissors
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Astal Atlar
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2007.11.20 09:11:00 -
[28]
in fact dictors are not that expensive heretic with t2 fit goes up to 20 mil i will say sabre with t2 fit go up to no more than 40-45 mil this calculations are without rigs
The points is making one of the most versatile and presious pvp ships in eve in slow bricks this is what it bothers me.
Bulgarian experienced *****ers - the OSS |
Satura
Mucho Dolor
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Posted - 2007.11.20 11:06:00 -
[29]
Quote:
More risk, more reward.
Yup, i agree with this completly. Even if i don't have time/will to play "hardcore", in eve you can get pretty easy "end game" stuff. Well, not titans, but implants and 1-2 faction mods to pimp a ship...pretty easy compared with other mmo's. :)
And lol, i was just killed by one of those 10km/s sabres (no joke), hahah. Man i suck sometimes.
One of these days i swear i kill that sabre. |
arbalesttom
Caldari
Glauxian Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.20 12:23:00 -
[30]
Dictors deserved the nerf, so stop the whining
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***
♣♣♣Phear my sig!♣♣♣
Nice hamster! - Mindstar
Sorry, that hamster ate your sig - Cortes |
Astal Atlar
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
Sons of Tangra
|
Posted - 2007.11.20 15:03:00 -
[31]
and can you tell me why they deserve it only one of them is in his own class and this is sabre all others are quiet balanced right now.
Bulgarian experienced *****ers - the OSS |
Tovran
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.11.20 15:46:00 -
[32]
Not entirely sure why my flycatcher had to get a speed hit. A decent ceptor was already twice as fast as it, and it was by far the slowest dictor. *sigh*
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Cecil Montague
Minmatar
Eternity INC.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.11.20 15:46:00 -
[33]
It's so people will fly Heavy Interdictors when they come out. Oh well more training to add to the list.
"There is no such thing as an effective segment of totality." - Bruce Lee |
Brea Lafail
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Posted - 2007.11.20 17:30:00 -
[34]
My hypothesis is that dictor's were nerved because CCP is trying to bring fleets closer together. With scripts nerving sensor boosters, a fleet sitting at 100km will have faster lock times than the fleet set-up for 150+km encounters. Since your snipers are now a mere 100km off the gate, dictor speeds where reduced to give the support a chance to take them out before they get a bubble on the snipers.
Even so, Im not happy about this. The mortality rate of my dictors is sitting around 50%, maybe a little higher. When using them in fleet, I frequently get killed before the hostiles even appear on my overview, so I say give their tank the biggest boost since boosting was invented. A HAC should still have little problem taking them out in a fair fight, but dictor should have enough tank to GTFO.
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Dangerously Cheesey
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.20 17:37:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Brea Lafail
My hypothesis is that dictor's were nerved because CCP is trying to bring fleets closer together. With scripts nerving sensor boosters, a fleet sitting at 100km will have faster lock times than the fleet set-up for 150+km encounters. Since your snipers are now a mere 100km off the gate, dictor speeds where reduced to give the support a chance to take them out before they get a bubble on the snipers.
Even so, Im not happy about this. The mortality rate of my dictors is sitting around 50%, maybe a little higher. When using them in fleet, I frequently get killed before the hostiles even appear on my overview, so I say give their tank the biggest boost since boosting was invented. A HAC should still have little problem taking them out in a fair fight, but dictor should have enough tank to GTFO.
Support didn't need any help killing 5km/s sabres and they definitely won't need any help killing 3.5km/s sabres. Eagles and Muninns did not really get much of a nerf, even with the script changes.
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Sharky1116
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.11.20 19:12:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Sharky1116 on 20/11/2007 19:12:42
Granted i am also against this nerf of the dictors (heck i just got my hands on a Sabre!!!) but it now looks like dictors will have to be used mainly in small to medium attack gangs combined with the ceptors... But even a Vaga could close in on a running dictor in those small gangs if this nerf goes through and Fleet battle dictors are even more a sucide ship then it was before!
I thought the whole point of the speed was to escape it own bubble and warp away from the battle and to later rejoin and assist?
*I Think the Dictors will have to use a new tactic from now on... :( *
But maybe with the introduction of the new Heavy Dictors, maybe the primary focus on Dictors will be reduced and switched more towards the newer ships that it could allow the dictors a tad bit more freedom in battle say be able to engage smaller ships such as T1 frigs/cruiser or somewhat quickly getting to a Capital Ship to drop bubbles where a Heavy Dictor would take time to get too...
Maybe a small group of dictors should be safespotted on standby so that after a fleet battle begins they can be called in and acquire new targets and assist in bubbling say the Heavy Dictors go down... thus fleet battle will be more specialized as in its focus more on keeping the Heavy Dictors alive (maybe with logistics ships?) and having the original Dictors as a backup bubble/anti-frigate cruiser attack and tackler support group in contingent with Ceptors?
I guess with this Nerf, it is time for the dictor pilots to adjust their roles and and focus on newer tactics to use in battles... I still see Dictors being invaluable to quick attack groups of small ships raiding a enemy station and taking out 0.0 Ratters and Miners as well as quick gate camping fleets without the support on Mobile Bubbles or Heavy Dictors
RDEX Sharky1116 - Sad to see the Dictors get the Nerfbat
Jamming is My Business and Business is Good! RDEX FTW!!
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Dah' Khanid
Conisor Excavations Syndicate
Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2007.11.20 19:18:00 -
[37]
Dictors will appear on killmails when bubbling enemies, even without agressing them in any way. So new dictor style will be: jump in/sit on gate while enemy jumps in -> drop a bubble -> sit still and be primaried and die hooribly -> click "refresh" on the killboards.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2007.11.20 19:25:00 -
[38]
Dictors will be useless to who? My small gangs can lock down systems with the things. Sure, boohoo, solo pirates arent invincible now, but in gang warfare the dictors are NOT the primary and will probably be the sole survivor.
-----------------
Friends Forever
Kill.
BoB.
Dead. |
Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation
Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.20 19:31:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
Dictors will be useless to who? My small gangs can lock down systems with the things. Sure, boohoo, solo pirates arent invincible now, but in gang warfare the dictors are NOT the primary and will probably be the sole survivor.
Um, yeah.. they actually *ARE* primary. Where the hell do you PVP?
Liang
--
Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU.
Yarr? |
Astal Atlar
Caldari
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2007.11.20 20:45:00 -
[40]
it is true the primary targets of every gang is the enemis ew ships and dictors the suport clear dictors as the main force clear fast the ew.
So dictors yes new tactics ect. But man they will be slow no able to tank anything paper thin.They were tricky to fly already what it will be after the nerf.
Bulgarian experienced *****ers - the OSS |
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