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Tribunal
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Posted - 2004.03.04 21:06:00 -
[1]
I have been playing Eve now for a full month, and have spent a great deal of my free time online. Three other friends I talked into joining as well. Building up my character has been fun, building skills while offline is a great feature =). The major flaw of the game became clear to my friends early on and they quit about a week ago, and now I have discovered the flaw. This is not a game for casual players.
I do not mind companies tailoring major parts of the game towards those people that can play all the time, but please tend to us older and higher time restraint players as well. Today I lost my Rupture ( 2 days old =/) because someone was "bored"; the irony is I was fighting NPCs to earn insurance money. That's fine and dandy but when I started looking at how long I would have to mine and how much I would have to pay, for the minerals I can not mine, I became highly depressed. It was listed as going to take almost +2 weeks just to get back to where I was. I am sorry but as a player I will not accept spending 2 weeks to mine and earn cash for a ship that I can lose in less then 2 days in the low sec areas.
What would have kept me and my friends in the game? Places for us to go fight hard NPCs, mine, build, and socialize without having the PK player base ruin our fun. Did I know that this entire game involved nothing but PK? Nope. Me and my buds read things like:
 Quote:
Players who wish to explore peaceful paths may continue to upgrade their ships to bigger and better cargo vessels with high-end defenses, purchase advanced mining or research equipment and continue to develop their characters by specializing in their preferred skills. Others may elect to pursue a more dangerous path such as piracy, smuggling or bounty hunting.
and figured we would be able to do the things we wanted without having to worry about other players. Is this a cry against PK? No. This all goes back to time restraint. To do the things we wanted to do we had to go into "PK" land where our chances of living were horridly low. This leads us in an endless cycle of doing tons of what we do not want to do to enjoy small bits of what we did enjoy.
Personally I am done with Eve. If you can give players some challeging NPC areas (with high level ores to mine) that are free from the griefers then you may start to attract people like myself. Otherwise you will always be stuck with a horridly small player base. Good luck.
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Vorax
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Posted - 2004.03.04 21:20:00 -
[2]
An unfortunete story. The game is very based towards PvP, unless you do nothing but mine. There is little hope of survival in PvP land for those who do not have the time and patience to get the vast resources required to enter there.
I will say though that with planning and patience it can be done even going at a casual pace. It does mean that you have to be open to alternate ways of making money though, such as playing the market and working with your friends in .5+ zones to mine, or creating/selling stuff.
Never go int .4 or below with a ship you want to keep unless it is insured, to make the money you probably should have done missions or killed pirates in .5 if you didn't want to get money via the other ways above.
I wouldn't say the game is unfriendly to casual players, but casual players need to realize that everything takes time.
All that said, I think the idea of challenging pirates in .5 zones would be great fun and helpful for casual players.
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Aleister Crowley
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Posted - 2004.03.04 21:43:00 -
[3]
Tribunal,
I am sorry that our experience has embiitered you towards the world of Eve.
OOC: We are part time players as well, however we have been playing longer than you have.
I have been playing long enough and seen enough changes to the game that ONLY promote random killing that my friends and I have opted to play the game the way CCP wants us to.
So we set about creating an RP angle, and certain guidlines to make what we do at least partially challenging.
We do not attack indys or frigates.
We do not pod.
We only fly cruisers.
We do not smack talk.
We try to fight mainly battleships.
Again I apologize for any hard feelings as that is not our goal.
'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law' |
Tribunal
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Posted - 2004.03.04 22:16:00 -
[4]
When you guys killed me I was in my first ever cruiser, a Stabber. Me deciding to quit has little to do with that event. When I say the person that killed me when I was in my Rupture was "bored" I mean just that. His exact words were "I was bored". Which is not a big problem I guess, my weeks worth of work seemed to have given him that 15 seconds of joy he so needed.
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Maud Dib
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Posted - 2004.03.04 22:18:00 -
[5]
Bye
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.03.04 22:25:00 -
[6]
In EVE as in life most people will be morons, random killers like this last guy deserves to be harassed till he quits, just give me a name and I'll locate him for you and supply with kestrels and missiles.
Convert Stations
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Aleister Crowley
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Posted - 2004.03.04 22:29:00 -
[7]
Quote:
When you guys killed me I was in my first ever cruiser, a Stabber. Me deciding to quit has little to do with that event. When I say the person that killed me when I was in my Rupture was "bored" I mean just that. His exact words were "I was bored". Which is not a big problem I guess, my weeks worth of work seemed to have given him that 15 seconds of joy he so needed.
That's fortunate then. I don't want to be responsible for people leaving the game.
My friends often joke with me about my level of paranoia but it has kept me safe thus far. I expect anyone entering the system I am in to be hunting me. I then take actions to prevent this (dock, MWD into space).
It does seem that many look at the game as a CS clone and that is too bad. In all honesty I have found that playing with friends is the only way to ensure a gaming experience that is mutually enjoyable.
Good Luck in your future endeavors.
'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law' |
Jake Pliskin
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Posted - 2004.03.04 22:34:00 -
[8]
this game won't work as a pure pvp space combat simulator.
simply too many people logged on, especially when they start going above 8k
i know they are making changes to reduce combat lag, large fleet battles etc etc, but it will never be completely solved.
what are we supposed to do, everyone with uber pc's and very very fast broadband net connections ain't gunna happen anytime soon, but i do consider it very ambitious of ccp to try
It'll sure be hard to find a good balance. It'll be even harder for the devs to find ways to stop players from finding 'backdoors' or 'dubious tactics' to gain an upper hand, i'm desperatly trying to avoid the word 'exploit' here, cause that's too strong in many cases
Someone made a good point in the recent csm.
Lots of work going into turning Eve into a pure space combat sim, but don't neglect the rest of the game
Eve is not for the casual player. It rewards those that have the time spare on a regular basis to put in (just remember, it can all go up in smoke in just a few seconds)
Well that's all folks
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LaneHacker
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Posted - 2004.03.04 22:57:00 -
[9]
Go play Freelancer
You can join servers that have PvP turned off. There you can mine and fight endless NPC without the worry of player interaction, hell you can be untouchable in about 2-3 hours.
=Vagabonds= |
Slam
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Posted - 2004.03.04 23:16:00 -
[10]
I went skiing in Austria last week. When I got back my wallet had increased by 60 million.
Eve aint just a time sink - I promise you there is a place for players with less time but plenty of brains and game understanding.
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Jo Arquea
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Posted - 2004.03.04 23:17:00 -
[11]
I dont like how ppl take the game too seriously.
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Teeth
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Posted - 2004.03.04 23:18:00 -
[12]
Try flying missions for a navy/fleet agent in high sec space for getting some safe money with moderate npc challenge (level 3 missions are fine for cruisers). Then when you have enough money to afford 2 cruisers, go into lower sec space, this way the loss won't sting as much.
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Traiben Mightius
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Posted - 2004.03.04 23:25:00 -
[13]
I was just in a similar situationą having not quite enough money to get up to a Moa, I borrowed just barely enough from my corp buddy (2-person startup corp) to get the ship, but still did not have enough to insure it. As a result I was extremely cautious with what I did with the ship. I would use my old Kestral to do a little hunting in 0.4 space to make some extra cash and actually outfitted the Moa for mining. Between the two of us in a couple of nights (say 2-3 hours per nightą and not really in consecutive nights), we were able to make not only enough to insure the Moa, but for my corp mate to buy and insure her Rupture (hereĘs a tip, mine Omber in 0.7-0.5). But the key was really sticking together and working towards a common goal. It is without question harder to work on your own or to try and start a corp from scratch without having belong to one in the past, the risks are very real when you realize how much time can go to waste through a single bad nightą but honestly, that is one of the most attractive features of Eve, the challenge! 
This is not a game for the impatient, the weak of heart or mind, the poor plannerą this game rewards your hard work with a long list of harder work to come. When you look at the ū6.0, $8 million bounty pirate in their fully outfitted Tempestą looking at a distance mind you and running like hellą itĘs easy to miss the fact that Mr./Mrs. Pirate spent an incredibly long time getting there (and probably getting PKed themselves more than once in the process).
Basically, my concern isnĘt that the game isnĘt easy enoughą but that CCP might try to make it too easy. Imagine an Eve where any 10-year old ōn00b grieferö could acquire a battleship in a few hours of play. Now that IĘm in my Moa, am I scrambling up the tree to get a battleship? Nope! Maybe IĘll work up and try out a few of the other racesĘ cruisers, maybe try my luck at some manufacturingą heh, maybe I can find some hot Ms. Pirate to teach me some PvP (and by teach I mean actually TEACH, not drop by and splatter my candy ass across some lonely belt out there for the fun of it while IĘm sitting there with Miner IIĘs). 
Anyways, hereĘs hoping you give it another shot! Remember folks, getting there is half the fun! 
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Imperishable
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Posted - 2004.03.04 23:26:00 -
[14]
Try flying in a frigate, it's pretty cheap and you can still hunt all the 0.1-0.4 NPCs in it, if you like the challange.
You shouldn't think of the game like you just HAVE to get a cruiser and quiting cause you can't do it.
Now if only CCP made frigates and cruisers more useful in PvP.. so it's not a battleship only game.
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Skelator
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Posted - 2004.03.04 23:26:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Personally I am done with Eve. If you can give players some challeging NPC areas (with high level ores to mine) that are free from the griefers then you may start to attract people like myself. Otherwise you will always be stuck with a horridly small player base. Good luck.
Tribunal eve mail me I will make arrangements with you for the rupture you need
They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards |
Br0ke
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Posted - 2004.03.04 23:38:00 -
[16]
Traiben, your words are wise. This universe offers many challenges and many rewards to those with the wit to reach for them.
Imperishable, frigates and cruiser class vessels are very useful in PvP combat. We only fly cruisers and have destroyed a good many battleships. Some have repelled the liberation, but they are the minority.
Tribunal, you are a competent pilot, find your path in Eve and be resolute. The loss of a ship should not be such a grave deterrent.
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Follow the Left Hand Path |
Ashantee
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Posted - 2004.03.04 23:50:00 -
[17]
yes yes, imperish has it right, frigs are the way to go. in my rifter i can head to .2 space and have quite a lot of fun and if i lose my ship (well.. i have 1 or 2 good named things on there... but without them) i lose about 500k... wich is about 30 min of mining... maybe less.
Frigs are the way to go... fun, and not many people mess with you, really, what kinda of loot will a pirate get from a frig? but if that frig happenes to have a warp jammer and a BS buddy, that pirate has a lot to lose.
EVE is great for the casual player... you can't get into BS fighting or stuff like that... but off line training can make you a mean frig pilot.
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Ankh
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Posted - 2004.03.05 00:10:00 -
[18]
CCP need to take note of Tribunal's comments. I bet a lot of the player churn has come from similar experiences.
Working players, who typically spend 2-3 hours a day online at best, pay just as much subscription fees as a powergamer but the game can cope with a higher number of these accounts. Only by making the game more attractive to this type of player, will the game grow significantly.
Less regular players should not just be there as cannon fodder for the powergaming pk'ers. If they become extinct, the game as we know it is dead.
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Tribunal
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Posted - 2004.03.05 00:14:00 -
[19]
After taking some time to think I feel that I was a bit rash. I found myself angered at loss of my time (my ship and building a new one). I still find the lack of "safe" areas to enjoy just the elements of the game upsetting. I just read that the new additions to the game will include "dungeons", maybe these will be what I am looking for.
Quote:
My friends often joke with me about my level of paranoia but it has kept me safe thus far. I expect anyone entering the system I am in to be hunting me. I then take actions to prevent this (dock, MWD into space).
I have been very, very careful as of late with who is around me. I just didn't think that a player with a 2.0 sec rating would be a "pirate". Live and learn I suppose. I also might have came off as making the person who kill me sound rude. He did not mock me or such but I do not find that he had good grounds to kill me for no reason.
Quote:
I went skiing in Austria last week. When I got back my wallet had increased by 60 million.
Other then renting out office space I have no idea how you would have done this.
Quote:
Tribunal eve mail me I will make arrangements with you for the rupture you need
Thank you for the offer, but I must decline. I will build another one and just be very, very careful in the future. If I don't build it with materials that I earned then it will not truely feel like mine.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.03.05 00:38:00 -
[20]
To make money while offline you sell things on the market. 
Convert Stations
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Erty
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Posted - 2004.03.05 00:48:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Erty on 05/03/2004 00:49:39
I don't think EVE is the right game for you. Random killing sucks, but EVE is a game where the players interact with eachother, not NPC's.
Maybe you should play a singleplayer game instead if you want to be alone, the main thing with EVE is that you aren't alone and that's what makes most of us play.
This is my signature. |
Azamien
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Posted - 2004.03.05 00:49:00 -
[22]
This is the reason that open PVP MMOG's never get beyond niche status. For one, people who actively like getting randomly ganked by kids with self esteem issues are a rare breed. And moreover, PVP games are very hard for casual players.
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bUBbLeS
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Posted - 2004.03.05 00:55:00 -
[23]
can i have your stuff?
Julius ceaser : "operor vos volo MCCCXXXVII laganum bUBbLeS?"
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Dalmont Delantee
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Posted - 2004.03.05 01:04:00 -
[24]
Quote:
This is the reason that open PVP MMOG's never get beyond niche status. For one, people who actively like getting randomly ganked by kids with self esteem issues are a rare breed. And moreover, PVP games are very hard for casual players.
I disagree, if you stick to safe systems or just unpopulated ones you'll be safe. The systems I fly in are safe as houses. Never had any problems. Just have to watch where you are going thats all. If an agent sends you somewhere unsafe, don't go there.
Take comfort in knowing that its probably some pimply faced twit, or 40 year old virgin, who gleens everytime mommy offfers to take them to needle point lessons |
Jequan
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Posted - 2004.03.05 01:07:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Jequan on 05/03/2004 01:08:30
Quote:
can i have your stuff?
I think people shoud be instanntly podkilled while typing this stupid message.
Die die die!
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Tribunal
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Posted - 2004.03.05 01:09:00 -
[26]
Quote:
can i have your stuff?
Sure, all you have to do is kill the person who killed me
I do enjoy interaction within online games I never said nor meant that I did not. I love fighting NPCs and mining (low sec areas with ricky NPCs) with others, this is what I found fun in the game. What I do not find fun is getting blasted for no reason other then just because. I will be better prepared next time though.
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Reiisha
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Posted - 2004.03.05 01:21:00 -
[27]
Well, it would indeed be "nice" to have some areas where no attack is possible (like Yulai). The rest is free land though, if you can handle it.
Just stay in 0.5+ if you don't want to get killed (immediately).
You could also bring in a reason against safe areas, which would be that players there can make too much money too safe, which is also imbalancing.
Just some random thoughts....
Gamersland.nl, DE site voor PC gaming! |
Azamien
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Posted - 2004.03.05 02:17:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Quote:
This is the reason that open PVP MMOG's never get beyond niche status. For one, people who actively like getting randomly ganked by kids with self esteem issues are a rare breed. And moreover, PVP games are very hard for casual players.
I disagree, if you stick to safe systems or just unpopulated ones you'll be safe. The systems I fly in are safe as houses. Never had any problems. Just have to watch where you are going thats all. If an agent sends you somewhere unsafe, don't go there.
Say hi to the 100 people that hit the clone factory from being in 1.0 last night. 
And yeah, that sort of mass death is rare, but it still happens all the time in isolated fashion in 0.5-1.0, and it only takes once for a casual player to lose their cruiser/BS and be in the same boat as the original poster.
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.03.05 02:31:00 -
[29]
Don't let the door hit you on your way out.
--
Stories: #1
--
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.03.05 02:40:00 -
[30]
"I think people shoud be instanntly podkilled while typing this stupid message.
Die die die!"
Don't say so, you never know if there wasn't some cAKe amongst the stuff ;.;
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