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Axelay	Posted - 2003.06.10 05:34:00 - [1] I have heard many complain about how we 'exploit' people by firing on them before their screen loads up. I just wanted to stat that this is complete bs. Many many many frigates fly in and warp off before they are even able to be targetted. Many cruiser use MWD and hit the gates before we can get a lock. Most of those that die are either making a run for the gate in a frigate, or don't have microwarp in a cruiser. There is no significant load lag that we are 'exploiting'. Players get 5 seconds of time after a jump that they are not able to be targetted, more than enough time to select something and warp to it (at which point you cannot be targetted). Perhaps there are a few people who have some more serious issues with their system/connection, but this is definately the minority. _____ m0o
Drachir	Posted - 2003.06.10 13:31:00 - [2] Yep, I manage to warp out when they're at the gate. It's really not that hard, even with all those cargo containers.
Alazar	Posted - 2003.06.10 14:39:00 - [3] I managed to evade 3 of their cruisers in a fully loaded industrial with minimal hull damage. You just have to swallow your pride and run away. (A tactical retreat)
Tristan	Posted - 2003.06.10 21:40:00 - [4] what about 56k users? im on 1mb cable myself, but i know it affects them .. badly.
Crimsonjade	Posted - 2003.06.11 04:02:00 - [5] also i think lots of people were going afk on trade runs and we all know that autopilot can take a second to activate...
BoneDancer	Posted - 2003.06.11 04:10:00 - [6] The real question to me is 'where' are we supposed to fight. I mean, I'm not terribly interested in killing miners, a) their loot doesnt fit in my hull, b) there not much of a challenge, and c) they usualy are pretty passive. I love this game but its WAY to easy to avoid combat at the moment even with all the warp jammers, snares, and other such tools.
Axelay	Posted - 2003.06.11 04:47:00 - [7] I am usually the last to use terms like 'troll' 'lamer' etc when it comes to IRC and board posts. I find them to be trite and generally unimaginative. However, I think in this case it is quite appropriate to use one of these terms. The 'carebears' have won, this game will now be nerfed down to a mining sim. Everyone will now be playing to see who can be the first one to hit an asteroid belt with a battleship sporting 8 mining lasers. If they nerf the weapons no-one will ever die, so combat will be pointless. If they make the gates 'safe' there will never be any blockades and combat. Unfortunately the concept for this game is being sacrificed to satisfy the $$ requirements of it's creation. The publishers are demanding that the players be happy, and the players are (the majority of players) demanding that they should never die if they don't want to. _____ m0o
Jazger	Posted - 2003.06.11 05:13:00 - [8] Firstly - can lag. - i see this as a problem. but after a few trades of words with j0rt, i can understand moos stance here. (after all in many games onc ei get rich, i don't borth with looting the cheap stuff anymore. no need.) But i don't think the majority of players want a carebear game. Thats not what we bought. I feel that atm .4 space given the curent moo blocade is a joke. .4 does not mean no secrutiy. its like takeing a walk through a mildly bad part of town. Somehting bad may happen, or it may not. But with moo thier - somehting bad always happens. You either got to fork over money, or get destroyed. Most of the posts i've seen. (in the old forum. bt the way. seems to be gone now) The majority of people don't mind PC pirates. Even enjoy them being in the game. What the don't like is for the secrutiy rateing system to be made a total and utter laffing stock. for a group to basiclay take over a gate insdie of empire space. Space that by the game set up, and by the very names given to the area. (Caldari, region/constlation) Is controll by an NPC empire. A group that would in a hart beat quash and upstarts the tried somehting like that. And Do it with more ships, more powerful ships. As they are a hugh goverment, with a massive navy. And one which could squash and invadeing group. Sure i can see them setting up shop thier, jacking a few ships, sticking around for a few hours. but to just camp that area? To stay thier for DAYS? Thats pushing the limits of believeableity. Thats makeing a joke out of it being rated .4 In a 0.0 system? i could see it happening for YEARS. But in a .4? draging it out over so many days, heck almost a week or so now? thats not a blockade, thats an invasion. I like moo, tis nice to have some uber evil pirate corp to be afarid of. It keep me in newbie land for awhile, and it keeps me looking over my sholder as it were. so i can try to avoid them. Makes the game fun. i don't want totaly free space, whith no dangers but NPC pirates. they are rather lame. Pc pirates spice things up. Give me somehting to sink my teeth into. gives me a reason to try and build up to become as strong as possable so i can go out and hunt them down. I know i'll lose a lot. but i accept that. Live and Learn. Die, and Learn FASTER. After awhile of dieing to them i'll figure out ways to fight them better. thier by slowly becomeing better at the game over all. and more able to engage them. And hopefuly sooner or later, able to kill them. not because I hate people who are in moo. But becuase i See then atm as being the best. Yea i admit it. I fear moo atm, becuase they are GOOD. i was POed that given skitz lame excuses for leaveing tons of can around. I saw the only option that they ment it to lag folks out and get a few second edge. (sometimes a few second edge is all thats needed to win. no?) But j0rt, posted a valid reason that i was willing to accept. no point looting the cheap crap. In fact i've heard that they are letting some folks come in if they pay thier toll, to clean up the loot they didn't want. Good mark on them. lowbies get the "trash" loot. They keep the area somewhat clean and with less lag. Good on them! But i dout many at all want this to become a carebear land game. i for one would can my account. I didn't join to play corp sim + mineing sim. I joined to play in a liveing breathing world. With its good guys, its bad guys. Not to spend all my time in thegame blasting NPC pirates. But to sooner or later be able to go fight PC pirates. (or become one my self. Jazgers an evil SOB, but a reasonable "good" guy when the mood stricks him. I have mixed feeling about the guns at gates. As players who want to pirate have as much right to do so as i do to spend hours staring at some rock in space. and these guns could total put an end to any pirateing in empire space. I don't like that. I may think that .4 is not NO security. But it sure isn't "total secruity" either. it should have its risks. Moo should be able to come it camp a gate for a few hours, get tolls and loot then leave. I want that in the game just as much as i don't want moo blockadeing a gate for days on end. Eh, thats my 2 cents. Jazger
Ruulex DeMors	Posted - 2003.06.11 05:17:00 - [9] Quote: If they nerf the weapons no-one will ever die, so combat will be pointless One hit kills, IMO, ruin a game. Whats the point of combat that lasts 10 secs tops with the highend weapons. Sure everyone wants to win, but put some tactics into it, sometimes my ship takes 10 secs just to respond to my command to change directions (DSL and still lags a bit). Tone down weapons to where combat lasts a little longer, so tactics can used. Someone said that 99% of the combat tactics are done in the docking bay, and they hit it on the head. Also make it that if both combatants target each other and engage that they can't warp (Afterburners and those mini-warp drives should still work). OR add a new skill to the game so you can track your targets warp signature or something so you can warp to their location after they try to retreat back to a station or different location. Combat could be soooo much better, I don't see how you m0o guys can stand near-one hit kills. To me that is so boring...much like mining or playing Doom II in god mode. Edit: No clue why my text is so big... Edited by: Ruulex DeMors on 11/06/2003 05:20:21 ------------------------------------- Interm-CEO for EVE Marshals http://www.EVEMarshals.com
Axelay	Posted - 2003.06.11 05:23:00 - [10] All they need to do is bump mara/passari to .5 and be done with it. Just put in one of those 'news announcements' about how extra police have been dispatched to secure the area. We aren't going to stick around long with cops spawning all over us, and the system should probably have been .5 all along. There are all of these posts about what we are doing, and talk of EXTREME changes to game dynamics to fix it, when in reality the only change that is needed is for the sec level to be raised by .1. It's not a drastic change, it solves the problem, and it MAKES SENSE> I don't see why the simple solution is being tossed aside in favor of more extreme and untested changes to the fundamental rules of the game. _____ m0o
Axelay	Posted - 2003.06.11 05:28:00 - [11] There are no 'one-hit' kills, except for newbie frigates, sometimes even they take two salvos. Heck, I've had to shoot pods three times before just because I got a string of weak hits. Frigates go down in 10 secnods or so. Cruisers take 25-30 depending on how well equipped they are. If you extend the time it takes to kill a ship much longer than that, no one will die because there will be to much time to get away. It's simple really. If you have 30 seconds to lock on, open fire, assess the damage you are doing vs the damage you are taking and decide if you should fight or flee, then select a valid warp-to location, chances are pretty much 50/50 if you are going to be able to make the right decision in the allotted time. However, if you have 45-60 seconds to decide, there is little or no chance that you will ever lose a 1 on 1 fight. And very very little chance that you will ever lose to a group (the more there are the easier it is to see that you need to run). _____ m0o
Jazger	Posted - 2003.06.11 05:36:00 - [12] have to disagree with you a bit thier. Tis fine as a .4 system. Unless i'm totaly mistaken. .4 is a bad area. .4 is ment to be some what dangrous. not so much as a 0.0, or a .3. but tis ment to have its dangers. I got no issue with moo blockadeing a .4 system. Save that - after a few hours, in any normal empire they would dispatch a group of heavy hitters to drive/break up the blockade. As .4 is not ment to be a free for all. Its ment to be a mildly dangrous part of "town" where some pirate might kill you and steal your loot. But to drag it out over days, heck almost a wekk now? Then it stops being a blockade, it becomes an invasion of a nations turf. to make it a .5 system does not remove the core of the problem. Only forces it to move to some other .4 choke point. Thats not a "fix" its passing the buck to some other side of space. maby moo should blockade it for a few hours. or even a day. Then move to some other choke point. Giveing the area some time to rest and forget. Blockade that. Then move. After a week or so, come back to the first one. Reasonable. less perdictable. And would mean that some times that areas "safe". Other times its not. More in line with the whole sec rateing thing. Thier now up to 4 cents. ;) Jazger
Axelay	Posted - 2003.06.11 05:58:00 - [13] I think that if they would just make the security ratings within the 'empire space' that everyone thinks is so sacred .5 or above everyone would be a lot happier. Just have the sec level go up as you approach the capitol of said 'empire' and have it drop to .4 only on the very fringes and proceed down to 0.0 from there. This would make for great border wars as pirates (like m0o) assert themselves in these .4 systems the security could gradually go down (note that they are now calculating security status to the hundredth.) So lets say a group of pirates set up camp in a .4 system on the edge of empire space, the sec status could gradually start to go down (.01 an hour or so) and the empire could respond by sending some NPC police/navy to clear us from their space. If they succeed then fine, if not then the security drops a little more, and the empires 'cost' to retake this sector goes up. Eventually it could reach the point where the Empire decides that the area is either simply not worth it (at which point the faction can change to whichever group has occupied it) or declare all-out war to retake it and drive the invaders out. That's a lot more sensible, and fun (for pirates at least) This also ensures that the only players at risk are those that are travelling in the fringes of empire space. This solution should make just about everyone happy, except for those that are steamed past the boiling point at m0o and want to see us all banned. But at the very least, they should make the sec level in the empire regions at least .5 to stop stuff like this from happening. Frankly, I WANT someone to push us out (players or something similar to the above, _not_ GM's.) We are becoming a bit bored waiting for the other shoe to drop. _____ m0o
Jazger	Posted - 2003.06.11 06:08:00 - [14] Give me a Moa BP and i'd love to go attack you folks. No? damn pirates with your looting and make out parties. Well i'll go find my own BP. with hookers and blakcjack. In fact forget the BP. :) I like your idea of the sec changes. to be hoest i think one fo the problems is people do not know what the real difrance between .1 and 1.0 is. I was onder the impression that pretty much every sysyem with a rateings above 0.0 was part of epimre space. Just parts they don't patroll as often. Like a bad side of town where cops avoid going unless somehting major happens. You know? the bad side of town, where someone might kill you for your shoes. Enter at your own risk. As bad things MIGHT happen. I came by this becuase the area is still listed as Caldari space. Dangrous space. but still thier space. I could be wrong. But i don't think so. I beleive tis ment to be the bad side of town. Not a major war zone. But if CCP were to come out and say - .5 and up is empire. .4 or lower is free for all, with your idea of changen the sec rateing base off how BAD it is atm. That could work. Jazger Edited by: Jazger on 11/06/2003 06:08:36
Axelay	Posted - 2003.06.11 06:19:00 - [15] I think it would be fun. Thanks for listening objectively to my suggestion, I appreciate it. :) _____ m0o
Jazger	Posted - 2003.06.11 06:42:00 - [16] Not a problem man. Unlike some, no matter the posts i made that were in away "agisnt" moo. I got no problem with you folks. You style of play is as valid as mine. That idea seems reasonable, and would help to avoid "these sort" of issues. And i do think the base of the problem is either not enough folks out in 0.0 space. (giveing pirates a rason to stay out thier rather then in "empire" space.) Or many folks totaly misunderstanding what the sec rateing mean. (my self included) Either way, your idea could work out, and would in away even add more to the games "reality". And as someone who feel him self a roleplayer, thats my main goal. to make the world i play in as real as possable. The only problem i see with it is the need to keep updateing peoples maps with the new sec rateing. But that wouldn't be to hard to get around. Anyway, i need sleep. Best of luck to you. And i hope to stay out of your lockable range for awhile longer. Just another week or 2 and i should be able to get me a good combat birds BP. Then we shall see who owns the space ways. :)= Jazger Edited by: Jazger on 11/06/2003 06:44:52
Ulf Ulfsson	Posted - 2003.06.11 09:31:00 - [17] I think this would make things more interesting, for sure. I got no problem with pirate activity and the game would be DULL without it (and this is where some mature person probably calls me a fudgepacker again). Personally I steered WELL clear of sub .5 systems until I thought I had a good chance of survival - if you go there you risk death. End of story. By the same token I agree that anything above a 0.0 should implicitly be policed to a degree at least. Axelay's suugestion would deal with this and create a more interesting and dynamic universe.
PropanElgen	Posted - 2003.06.11 09:54:00 - [18] Axelay wrote: I have heard many complain about how we 'exploit' people by firing on them before their screen loads up. I just wanted to stat that this is complete bs. Many many many frigates fly in and warp off before they are even able to be targetted. Many cruiser use MWD and hit the gates before we can get a lock. Most of those that die are either making a run for the gate in a frigate, or don't have microwarp in a cruiser. There is no significant load lag that we are 'exploiting'. -------------- Why is it you drop hundreds of cargo containers around the jumpgates then? You m0o people are just full of crap! No wonder you got your corp name from the sound of an (not so clever) animal. All the angels and the puny men of god looked away... Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
Solomani il Xafra	Posted - 2003.06.11 09:56:00 - [19] I see no issues with MOO or any other pirate corp. They add spice to the game. I do think that empire space should be better protected by NPCS. Out of interest, why does MOO pod people? What do you gain out of it? Just curious. I would of thought just getting the ship is enuf.
Piohra Ghent	Posted - 2003.06.11 09:57:00 - [20] Frankly, the whole security rating system sucks ;) The number should be calculated on a per player basis, and be tied into the faction standings. If I'm in good standing with the Angel Cartel or the Guristas or whomever, their systems should be high security space for me, if as a result the Empires all hate me then their space should be my low sec space. New characters would start out with high faction standing in their chosen Empire, rather than as neutral. NPC 'Pirates' in Empire hostile sovereignties should have Empire faction. Area's outside anybody's sovereignty would act as the contested areas. Put the ore in those systems :P As an aside, the thing I really disliked about the ore distribution patch, wasn't the ore distribution changes themselves, it was that a huge amount of medium security areas just up and disappeared overnight, either dropped right down to 0.0 or jumping up to high security. -- Piohra Edited by: Piohra Ghent on 11/06/2003 10:05:54
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.06.11 11:12:00 - [21] Propan, I don't think the cargo containers are intentional, they are merely the result of raping many, many ships. Personally, If I was camping a gate, I wouldn't bother picking all that crap up either, not because of lag, but because you've got better things to concentrate on, ie. the next victim. I still don't agree with them using the dock/recharge/undock thing, but other than that, my opinion of them has increased ever so slightly, due to them letting my bud live last night, for the princely sum of 100k a week. I still have all their standings set to low though, just in case ;) .
Callia	Posted - 2003.06.11 11:14:00 - [22] You may not be deliberately exploiting the 'Warp Lag' problem but people are suffering at your hands due to it. My encounter with moo consisted of dropping out of warp as a frozen corpse with no warning. I warped to a gate, suffered what I would consider to be huge lag and by the time it ended I was a corpse. Absolutely no chance to react. This lag has presumably due to the huge number of containers littering up the place. On another note, Ax, you have argued against nerfing the silly damage mods because it would make combat pointless. The counterpoint to that is that combat is pointless with them in, because most of the things that were to be put in the game to make combat a tactical experience are rendered redundant. Why bother with warp scramblers and EM/ECM when a single weap combo renders them a waste of space. Do you honestly think it was the game designers intention for combat to work this way? Who are you to tell me to question authority?
Axelay	Posted - 2003.06.11 11:23:00 - [23] I don't 'honestly think' this game was 'designed' with anything special in mind. It is very slapped together and last minute in many respects, combat, however, is about as good as could be expected. You can outfit your ship in many ways, we have support frigates and gunships. We do use warp scramblers/webifiers and other ECM equipment because even with our 'silly' damage mods, it is still difficult to kill people who don't want to die. Many many many people have fled from me before being finished off. I have warp scrambled people before to ensure kills, it is neccessary at times. If the damage of the guns is lowered that is even more time for people to run. It doesn't really matter what they do though, I just hate to see everything nerfed to the point where no-one ever dies unless they are afk or stupid. _____ m0o
Bekka	Posted - 2003.06.11 11:30:00 - [24] Before the patch that moved bistot to outer space Mara was 0.6 and nearby Dantumi was 0.8 (I newbied there), then they were both dropped to 0.4. I guess that the devs changed it in the first place to see more action there (why else?) - and anyway if they up it again there's other systems around that are choke points and have low sec. rating, that pirates could camp. As for warp lag death - I have no problem believing people who say they unfreeze already dead. Even if I never met m0o or other pc pirates camping a gate, when I warp to a belt that contains npc pirates (or lots of cargo, or players) I always know beforehand because my PC freezes a bit while it loads the location - even if I am in the same city as the server and with a fast connection, a good machine, and never any lag. It's just a feature of the game when it loads locations with objects. It's up to CCP to provide a solution, blaming players for using the lag to their advantage (whether they do it on purpose or not) is pointless. Axelay I don't know what you mean when you say that they will nerf weapons, I haven't read anything about it. If you mean that they'll fix the loophole that allows your lasers to do ungodly damage at huge distances, well, it's a bug, what do you expect? If not, and they are nerfing weapons in general, could you please give me a link? As for places where to fight, and things to fight for - I look forward to when they are going to put in game the player-owned stations. It would be incredibly cool if these stations could be raided, destroyed, conquered.
Callia	Posted - 2003.06.11 11:35:00 - [25] I certainly do not want to see combat reduced to a slapping competition where no one can die either. I just want it to be a more tactical experience than the current 10 sec blastathon it is at the moment. Which is why I argue for the nerfing of stacked damage mods. Combat should last longer and be more involved. Yes people can runaway. There are ways to stop them and ways to prevent being stopped. One thing there is not is a way to effectively give chase and I think the game would be more interesting if something like that was in. Who are you to tell me to question authority?
EvilT	Posted - 2003.06.11 12:26:00 - [26] (to any m00s - plz spare me from ur usual "the game is turning into the mining sim whine") What Callia said. I think its pretty obvious that ship offensive capabilities greatly surpass its defences. Shield and armor skills only worth going for if you fight npcs, in PvP they make absolutely no difference. I understand that M0o and few other corps managed to put together some very nice loadouts for their ships and dont wont to loose them. However,i ts just a matter of time till most of the players will get something similar, and then we'd have to make a choice: to have 10-second click-fests or battles that actually involve some decisionmaking.
MaiLina KaTar	Posted - 2003.06.11 13:04:00 - [27] "The 'carebears' have won, this game will now be nerfed down to a mining sim. Everyone will now be playing to see who can be the first one to hit an asteroid belt with a battleship sporting 8 mining lasers." And it¦s your job to change that :) I mean cmon... you found methods to deal ridiculous damage in short time, so it shouldn¦t be that much of a problem to find a solution to this one aswell. No offence, really, but IMO most of your comments are based on frustration or whatever it is. You got kicked out of Mara and now you post all over the forums how the game is going to be nerfed and how it¦ll be a mining-simulator. Do you actually realise that more than 60% of the universe is 0.0 space? Do you realise that its those places that were specifically designed for you guys? 0.4 space is NOT a no-security area and it¦s NOT meant for groups of pirates blocking those systems for several days. It¦s still under empire control and if you mess with them then why do you actually wonder if they come to beat you down? What did you expect? Did you expect CONCORD to just stand there watching while you guys slaughter hundreds of people? They had to do something and they did it. You decided to show CONCORD your muscles... and CONCORD decided to show you what they can do with them. Deal with it. The game isn¦t nerfed just because you and your fellows got kicked out of empire space. As said there are hundreds and thousands of 0.0 systems, some of them wuite well populated. You could easily move out there and shoot everything you see without being raped by police battleships so why don¦t you just have a go at it? Don¦t get me wrong but I just don¦t understand how police presence in their part of space is bad or unblanced or carebear-ish or whatever. About combat: IMO it¦s much too short. I think that lowering the damage of the weapons (but not too much... fights shouldn¦t last longer than 1 or 1.5 minutes in 1on1) helps making combat more of a tactical challenge where you actually have to decide what to do. I don¦t see how people can run away as easy as you say because there are warp-scramblers and other modules designed to prevent just that. With combat lasting longer however you as a pirate would have to make a choice. Will you deal with the amount of energy needed to prevent your victim from warping? Will you be able to maintain your high-dmg fire while jamming your target? With combat lasting longer these questions would come into play and well... it would make combat a lot more interesting. Maybe you like this 10 seconds "fire gun till enemy dead" type of combat... but I¦m pretty sure 80% of the other people here don¦t. EvE will not be a carebear game just because the weapons do lower damage or whatever else needs to be done to make combat last longer and be more interesting. It will rather be the opposite. A tactical challenge where you as a pirate can really show how good you can fight. Well... don¦t get me wrong please. I don¦t mean to offend you or anything. IMO your view is just a bit too extreme and maybe it¦s result of the frustration you must¦ve had when you got kicked out of Mara system. Mai's Idealog
Blackwood	Posted - 2003.06.11 14:03:00 - [28] The solution to both these problems is to give the player the option of how far from a target to come out of warp. A slider that can be set between close ~20km, and far ~150km would be just the ticket.
Badrinath	Posted - 2003.06.11 17:42:00 - [29] Firstly, since I'm a noob, I have not ventured into any dangerous space. I have only passed through systems that have .4 or higher. Secondly, I have so far not encountered a M00. I know I would be frustrated if I got blown up by them. If they are using warp-in lag, then that's wrong. [Quote] If the damage of the guns is lowered that is even more time for people to run. It doesn't really matter what they do though, I just hate to see everything nerfed to the point where no-one ever dies unless they are afk or stupid. [/Quote] I believe that you are wrong here. Your assumption seems to be that if the weapons don't do as much damage, then people will be able to escape easier. I disagree. The noobs (like myself) when encountering a M00 will run because we don't stand a chance of defeating you. But players in more capable ships will be more apt NOT to run and will stay and fight. They may run after the battle gets started if they see they are losing. It seems to me that you M00 players don't want any risk for yourselves. I think you'll find that if the weapons are more properly balanced then your opponents will stay to fight rather than trying to run. You will have a greater challenge. But it is obvious that you don't want a challenge, you want to destroy other ships without getting your hands dirty. You seem only to be interested in blasting poor noobs (like me) who cannot defend themselves.
Gaius Varro	Posted - 2003.06.11 18:21:00 - [30] I actually have 2 points to make here, but I will try to keep it short. 1. I am not so sure we have to worry so much about the weapons and the short battle situations we currently see. I think that when the new versions of ships comes out, they will tend to have more defence (shield, armor) but not a significantly larger offence (slots). I say this because the UI currently only supports 8 slots/position. So if they keep the current ratio of slots/class, they really cannot change the slot count too much. Weapons may increase in power as well, but there is nothing that says CCP has to increase them at the same rate or at the same time.... 2. This is more of a response to the discussion of security ratings. The idea of increasing these central chokepoint systems to 0.5 or more is valid. I don't necessary think it's the BEST way, but it would do much of what needs to be done. I would prefer it if the empire military forces were given the role of removing obnoxious pirates who have overstayed their welcome grin. I think it would be much more interresting for both the law abiding citizenry as well as the pirates if it were POSSIBLE to blockade a gate/system on a temporary basis. The idea of m0o or any other group coming into empire space to RAID is a good thing, keep us all on our toes. But the day or week long camping is a bit much. I think there is a change that would allow both to exist together. 1 - Security status, like now, determines the number and strength of local coppers. This merely establishes the power needed to set up a blockade - ie, you can't do it unless you can defeat the locals. 2 - add the NPC naval contingent. Massive numbers of POWERFUL NPC ships that will show up eventually. The TIME it will take them to show up should be variable, but based on the security status of the system in question. This would mean that it is possible to get in, grab the loot, and get out. If you don't get greedy and stay too long. 3 - Players who have a negative rating with a faction should not be allowed to dock at a station owned by that faction. If the faction is SIGNIFICANTLY negative (like maybe -5) then the station could take pre-emptive action, ie use its guns. This will prevent the dock and regen, and also force limited duration raids into the center of an empire. Note that systems on the fringes of empire space are of necessity closer to stations of different factions, either other empires/syndicates, or just uncontrolled. If this was implemented, I would support a ONE TIME, ONE FACTION amnesty reset of faction. This would give any player who has been indescriminate in his slaughter a chance to get ok with at least one faction, thus allowing them a base of operations. I presented this idea in the past, and have gotten mixed response (on the other board). Give it a thought and let me know what you think, or if there are any serious flaws in my thinking.... Edit: typos Edited by: Gaius Varro on 11/06/2003 18:25:20
ToDie For	Posted - 2003.11.11 00:47:00 - [31] moo convfo me ,i want join
Luther	Posted - 2003.11.11 01:02:00 - [32] lol, must have taken you ages to scroll back and find that. Well done
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2003.11.11 01:03:00 - [33] Actually Luther, probably just used Tabius' fancy search feature for the word "m0o". _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
Aethelgrin	Posted - 2003.11.11 01:04:00 - [34] Edited by: Aethelgrin on 11/11/2003 01:04:57 No, now one can use Tabius' updated forum search and look for topic titles containing m0o. No scrolling required. edit: Grr. Drethen beat me to it.
Luther	Posted - 2003.11.11 01:04:00 - [35] aye prolly, although I read through the whole thing, b4 realising it was 5 months old, DOH! =============================================== has recieved the Minmatar Medal of Honor (keyring) from the Minmatar President (the eve online store)
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2003.11.11 01:05:00 - [36] Edited by: Drethen Nerevitas on 11/11/2003 01:07:11 What was the mistake? Putting your CFSN sig up? _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
Luther	Posted - 2003.11.11 01:06:00 - [37] Edited by: Luther on 11/11/2003 01:09:16 =============================================== has recieved the Minmatar Medal of Honor (keyring) from the Minmatar President (the eve online store)
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2003.11.11 01:09:00 - [38] Edited by: Drethen Nerevitas on 11/11/2003 01:09:51 Ahhhhh, the edits, they burn...just like all those CFS indies . Are we playing EditWars: A New Sig? _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
Luther	Posted - 2003.11.11 01:10:00 - [39] Edited by: Luther on 11/11/2003 01:11:20 ooo you bugger I do need a new one yes
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2003.11.11 01:11:00 - [40] Edited by: Drethen Nerevitas on 11/11/2003 01:11:49 Odd that that isn't censored. (WARNING: MODSQUAD ON-LINE) Spammers to your stations _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
Luther	Posted - 2003.11.11 01:17:00 - [41] Edited by: Luther on 11/11/2003 01:17:32 =============================================== has recieved the Minmatar Medal of Honor (keyring) from the Minmatar President (the eve online store)
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2003.11.11 01:21:00 - [42] You know those edits are really bugging. At least let me see what was on that one before you edited . _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
Luther	Posted - 2003.11.11 01:24:00 - [43] Edited by: Luther on 11/11/2003 01:32:37
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2003.11.11 01:28:00 - [44] You do know there isn't a post counter on this forum? _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
Luther	Posted - 2003.11.11 01:30:00 - [45] Edited by: Luther on 11/11/2003 01:32:13
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2003.11.11 01:31:00 - [46] _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
Veruna Caseti	Posted - 2003.11.11 01:57:00 - [47] Quote: There is no significant load lag Hahaha. I don't currently keep a list of the most ridiculous quotes ever seen on these forums, but this one encourages me to start one and place it at the top. Veruna Caseti Ishukone
Rizmordan Hillgotlieb	Posted - 2003.11.11 02:20:00 - [48] OK... OK... maybe i'm the only one who doesn't get it.... 5 MONTH OLD POST PEOPLE!!!!!! 5 MONTHS!!!! DEAD lemme spell it out for ya! D-E-D... DEAD.... Posting for Numbnutz
Golgrath	Posted - 2003.11.11 05:56:00 - [49] 5 months old but the thread could easily be a new thread. The same jumpin point camping is still there.

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