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Artemis Hancey
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Posted - 2007.11.20 23:53:00 -
[1]
Okay this is just a brain wave I had, I know a lot of people should think combat should last longer and therefore make it more tactical, so this is a idea based on just that.
As it stands shields and armour can melt quite quickly under heavy fire. My Idea is to make them A lot tougher. Either by just having higher resistances or more HP. To the point whereby to take a ship out requires a lot of time or a overpowering force. This increases the length of combat.
However this massive boost of defence can be lost through sub-system/module targeting. Shooting a shield booster to prevent the target ship from shield boosting, or if its a passive tank shoot the shield extenders to reduce the shield capacity, the same will go with armour, target the repairers, hardeners and plates to take out the defensive capabilities of the ship. Once the defensive modules are destroyed the ship is stupidly weak and the attacker is in a position to further cripple the ship by taking out weapons and ransoming the ship or just to go for the kill.
Maybe certain ships will get bonuses to taking out the defensive modules, heavy assault frigs maybe, to see them used more, they fly in quickly take out defensive modules before the big guns role in to finish the job.
Like I said only a brainwave so as such hasn't been thought out too much. Just thought I'd pitch it whilst I can still remember it, what do you think?
Thanks for reading
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Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari
Rising Knights
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.20 23:56:00 -
[2]
GREAT idea
So good in fact it's already being done/worked on.
about a year ago the devs added significant HP to most/all ships. something like 40%.
Subsystem targeting has been coming SoonÖ for a while.
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Pain is weakness leaving the body.
There is no love in fear |
Cailais
Amarr
W A R
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Posted - 2007.11.21 01:03:00 -
[3]
Longer combat is great, everyone has probably 'instapopped' at some stage. Adding extra hp however can cripple smaller gang and solo fights however as protaganists can quickly reach a 'stalemate'.
Rather than aiming for specific modules Id like to see a system where by you debilitate a ship by hitting "sub-systems" like you suggest.
All ships would have the same sub systems in common - for example:
Propulsion - governs speed.
Powercore - governs cap regen rate.
CPU Array - governs sig resolution.
Sensor clusters - governs sensor strength.
Each of these attributes equates to 25% of a ships total hull HPs. By targeting a specific 'segment' you can hit past shields and armor. However damage to a specific segment doesn't spill over to another segment.
As a hull segment becomes damaged the attribute it governs is also degraded as a % penalty. So hit a ships propulsion chamber to 50% and it looses 50% speed.
Hull Modules like 'Armoured Powercore' (low slot) could be added to a ship to cover a critical segment.
C.
 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.21 02:21:00 -
[4]
A return to the fight or flight choice we used to have would also help combat last longer. This "commitment to battle 100%" mentality that CCP has placed upon us needs to be reevaluated.
-AS
The Real Space Initiative (Forum Link) |
Shin Mao
Caldari
AFC
Death or Glory
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Posted - 2007.11.21 08:18:00 -
[5]
Sad, but massive boost of defence can't help solve insta pop problem. Normal 1 vs 1 or small gang PVP, not "blob wars" wars become obsolete. If we can't kill target instantly, we need bigger and more guns  . Maybe if devs do something with gate camping, remove local ect.
X-ray nuclear pumped laser:
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Jallem Sims
Minmatar
Exploring Blind
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Posted - 2007.11.21 09:20:00 -
[6]
I worry that during a longer fight you might decide that your not going to win, and set up your ship etc to run.... can just imagine everyone starting fights then running, and no-one in the end killing anyone anymore cause everyone has plenty of time to leg it. You will end up getting small ships just gonig up to big ships and pushing them around starting a fight then running away.... just causing frustration and annoyance!
think it would be better to improve ship controls and movement. This would then improve how long a battle would last due to dogfighting. Then you could improve range on scrams to ensure people can dog fight at range.... this all improves the length and game play more than simply increasing hp adding more guns etc. i like the hp level and resists at the moment... if a tank fires its canon at my motor bike, the bikes not going to last long... if it gets hit!
sub system seems interesting, but do we have enough time during a fight.. i not sure if it would cause annoyance too... speed ships are set up for speed and have weak hulls, if you take their specilisation away then they crumble pretty quick (same for all ships that are specialised for a task)
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Meditril
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Posted - 2007.11.21 10:28:00 -
[7]
The point why battles are so short is the high speed of movement (MWD and warping). As long as it takes a nano-ship just 20 secs to cross the distance of (100-200km) between him and a sniper and 20 more secs to make his friends warp to him and toast the sniper you can't make battles during longer than they are now. The major problem of EVE is speed of ships MWDing around or warping around. Furthermore, I really like to see the possibility to chase somebody or being chased through several systems. At the moment fight is a binary thing... either you manage to web, scramble and kill your victim or it makes it to the next gate where it is gone. Thats poor, and that's a result of the pointless "commit to fight" philosophy. I vote for allowing people to excape a fight, but give hunters the possibility to chase their victims. This will prolong fight and maybe spread it over several systems, which will make the whole thing much more interesting, rewarding, suprising and tactical for both parts.
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.21 14:53:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 21/11/2007 14:53:24
Originally by: Jallem Sims
I worry that during a longer fight you might decide that your not going to win, and set up your ship etc to run.... can just imagine everyone starting fights then running, and no-one in the end killing anyone anymore cause everyone has plenty of time to leg it. You will end up getting small ships just going up to big ships and pushing them around starting a fight then running away.... just causing frustration and annoyance!
We have frustration and annoyance now too though. It's tough to find a straight up small gang fight. You're either with the fleet or out numbered so badly that you might as well stay home, station walls are annoying (Maybe it is some grand evil plan to help us enjoy ambulation  .) Granted, going out in a small gang and trying to poink the enemy's nose can give you a rush, but you're going to get blown up for it these days, that's frustrating too. Perhaps it is a philosophical thing, but I do not see why all combat must result in a ship blowing up.
Tactical decision making has been further and further reduced as time has passed. I personally find the lack of choice frustrating and annoying. As was stated, "You will end up getting small ships just going up to big ships and pushing them around starting a fight then running away." Is this so bad? If someone in a big ship gets shot at by little punk like me and gets hit with a couple of pot shots, so what? It's fun for the punk, causes no real harm to the big ship, and the big ship pilot can go get a little ship too. Eve is supposed to be about choice. I can choose to fly a big ship or a little ship. Right now the basic choice is a big ship and lots of other big ships with me. The solo guy in a little ship is almost not a choice any more.
The philosophy of committing to battle, all or nothing, reduces game play options. Games are always about choice, this is especially true for sand box games. It seems to me there is a philosophical conflict within the design of Eve these days and it needs resolution. "Sanbox and Choice" vrs "All or Nothing Battles" ā which is better.
-AS
The Real Space Initiative (Forum Link) |
Meditril
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Posted - 2007.11.22 08:22:00 -
[9]
I totally agree with you Adunh Slavy. It should be possible to warp in with a small ship, fire a few shots at a camp, a bubble or whatever and run away... this makes fun and it should be a viable option to tease blobs. If they feel annoyed... then they should try to go after you. This adds some more tactical depth to the game.
The "commit to fight" philosophy imposed by CCP results in the fact that only two ways of playing the game are viable now: a) blobbing, since blobbing reduces the commitment to fight on the blobbers side and b) nano-ships which also helps to avoid the commitment by having the possibility to run away when it gets worse. CCP, please don't fight against your players, you simply can't force players to "commit to fight" if they do not want. Players always find some possibilities to circumvent it, but it naturally happens at the cost of options and fun.
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Thunderbird Anthares
Crimson Star Empire
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.22 09:52:00 -
[10]
both ideas have a point
/signed on both :-D
combat definitely needs to be longer if subsystem targetting is to even happen "EVER"
and i dont mean 50%,i mean like 500%
lately in EVE you dont see that many soloers,you see just gangs
and not small ones (or they get owned pretty fast by big gangs)
the snipers also have a problem,with as you noted the nanoships
but this needs to be balanced,fleets need to be able to snipe,but can "never" be completely safe from interception
mid-distance combat is also rather rare
about combat,i dont want to jump in a gatecamp with a gang,play the shoot-em-up for 3 minutes and go home tapping myself on back how damn great was there
i want battles to last LONG,VERY LONG,and be also much fiercer and look better and more action-like (in which the new engine help a LOT aspecially after effects get a boost)
i want to return home in my favourite station after succesful battle with fires over several decks and coolant leaks,damaged directional thrusters and half weapons wrecked, not just with "60% hull damage and bye"
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When you get to the end of your journey,everything that really matters is the journey itself. |
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BigWhale
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.22 14:29:00 -
[11]
Right click on the target icon on the top of the screen, and select the subsystem that computer will target. An indicator on the left side of the icon would tell if there is a specific subsystem targeted.
This would be not too cluttery and quite easy to use.
Also, add few hotkeys for subsystem targeting.
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R, U & Y are letters...
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Ichabod Dirange
Backwater Security Systems
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Posted - 2007.11.22 15:01:00 -
[12]
First they need to solve the problem that is station hugging. Then there's the focus fire solution coming I've heard rumours about.
Cloners Wanted |
Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2007.11.22 15:34:00 -
[13]
Originally by: BigWhale
Right click on the target icon on the top of the screen, and select the subsystem that computer will target. An indicator on the left side of the icon would tell if there is a specific subsystem targeted.
This would be not too cluttery and quite easy to use.
Also, add few hotkeys for subsystem targeting.
We have the targets on the top of the screen, we could have 8 subsystems to select (divide target in 3x3 grid : center is still shooting the target as usual) by double click (you don't want to select a subsystem when you are just selecting the next target).
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Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Say hello to my tiny friends ! |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:33:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 22/11/2007 17:33:33
Originally by: Meditril
The "commit to fight" philosophy imposed by CCP results in the fact that only two ways of playing the game are viable now: a) blobbing, since blobbing reduces the commitment to fight on the blobbers side and b) nano-ships which also helps to avoid the commitment by having the possibility to run away when it gets worse. CCP, please don't fight against your players, you simply can't force players to "commit to fight" if they do not want. Players always find some possibilities to circumvent it, but it naturally happens at the cost of options and fun.
This is, in part, the reasons for the anti-gate crusade. I don't want to go into it all as there's a long thread to do that. What I will say is that more free use of space will lead to all sorts of tactical situations that we just can't get today. Mid range, close range, long range will all become viable again. And if players can find one another on a scanner, and make decisions about how close to warp to them, tactics will again become very important. A sniper may find himself at the edge of a battle. But if he lingers too long, he'll find himself surrounded by other snipers and likely tackled, yet his friends may zip in and tackle and smash one of the enemy snipers. Battles will "move" and shift around as opposing sides attempt to flank one another. This mobility will also reduce the focused fire that tends to happen at gates. It really does solve a lot of issues.
-AS
The Real Space Initiative (Forum Link) |
sukio
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Posted - 2007.11.23 13:46:00 -
[15]
I really like to see the possibility to chase somebody or being chased through several systems. At the moment fight is a binary thing... either you manage to web, scramble and kill your victim or it makes it to the next gate where it is gone. Thats poor, and that's a result of the pointless "commit to fight" philosophy. I vote for allowing people to excape a fight, but give hunters the possibility to chase their victims. This will prolong fight and maybe spread it over several systems, which will make the whole thing much more interesting, rewarding, suprising and tactical for both parts.
I tend to agree its a waste of my time to even atempt to try to fight if im gonna travel 15 jumps only to get popped in 3 seconds
the devs need to get it thorugh their thick skulls that 7% of the players dont like this 0 1 combat and the point and click movement ever try to manuver in an astroid firld or near a station when it blocks your mouse travel point? current combat is only fun for the very few elitists PVP jerks most of the rest of us just STAY IN EMPIRE SPACE. wake up guys only 22% are playing the game as you built it, as a roman arena for PVPers
the rest of us 78% are waiting for you to catch up.
EVE PVP is out of control and is hurting EVE and CCP |
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