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Soulspatch	Posted - 2007.11.21 05:55:00 - [1] Just played the DX 10 demo of Crysis (yet to be released) on my Vista 64 system, makes BF2 on max settings look like frogger on a ZX81. When can we expect EVE Vista to be released???
Vrenth Gallente 23rd Armor Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.21 07:42:00 - [2] I'd expect alot sooner than you learn how to read the forums or use the search feature...
Hu Lacour	Posted - 2007.11.21 10:57:00 - [3] Originally by: Soulspatch Just played the DX 10 demo of Crysis (yet to be released) on my Vista 64 system, makes BF2 on max settings look like frogger on a ZX81. When can we expect EVE Vista to be released??? Funny thing is that crysis is actually dx9, not dx10.. they just limited "best" settings for vista only :/ I wonder how well did MS money taste.
Vrenth Gallente 23rd Armor Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.21 11:52:00 - [4] Originally by: Hu Lacour Originally by: Soulspatch Just played the DX 10 demo of Crysis (yet to be released) on my Vista 64 system, makes BF2 on max settings look like frogger on a ZX81. When can we expect EVE Vista to be released??? Funny thing is that crysis is actually dx9, not dx10.. they just limited "best" settings for vista only :/ I wonder how well did MS money taste. One of the most beautiful games I have seen yet... and it is based on dx9, but was almost comlpletely redone with dx10's architecture. You know that dx10 IS backwards compatible with dx9 right? It is the same as the previous direct X releases... MS just lied. The Crytek 2 engine IS fully DX10, that doesn't mean they didn't modify it.
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.21 12:22:00 - [5] Originally by: Vrenth Originally by: Hu Lacour Originally by: Soulspatch Just played the DX 10 demo of Crysis (yet to be released) on my Vista 64 system, makes BF2 on max settings look like frogger on a ZX81. When can we expect EVE Vista to be released??? Funny thing is that crysis is actually dx9, not dx10.. they just limited "best" settings for vista only :/ I wonder how well did MS money taste. One of the most beautiful games I have seen yet... and it is based on dx9, but was almost comlpletely redone with dx10's architecture. You know that dx10 IS backwards compatible with dx9 right? It is the same as the previous direct X releases... MS just lied. The Crytek 2 engine IS fully DX10, that doesn't mean they didn't modify it. Bull****, if that was the case the hacks would not only be able to run DX10 in software mode on XP --------------------------------- Oh noes!
Vrenth Gallente 23rd Armor Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.22 03:28:00 - [6] Originally by: Arana Tellen Originally by: Vrenth Originally by: Hu Lacour Originally by: Soulspatch Just played the DX 10 demo of Crysis (yet to be released) on my Vista 64 system, makes BF2 on max settings look like frogger on a ZX81. When can we expect EVE Vista to be released??? Funny thing is that crysis is actually dx9, not dx10.. they just limited "best" settings for vista only :/ I wonder how well did MS money taste. One of the most beautiful games I have seen yet... and it is based on dx9, but was almost comlpletely redone with dx10's architecture. You know that dx10 IS backwards compatible with dx9 right? It is the same as the previous direct X releases... MS just lied. The Crytek 2 engine IS fully DX10, that doesn't mean they didn't modify it. Bull****, if that was the case the hacks would not only be able to run DX10 in software mode on XP Again, you weren't listening.. that is because it is impossible to install anything related to DX10 on XP... I'm saying that dx10 has very few differences apart from previous DX updates (7 to 8 ect.). MS just put more independent calls for DX10 to prevent people from using DX10 game clients on previous DX builds. Hence, companies are releasing games with 2 clients (with practically no differences besides performance and minor shaders). DX10 did not add much besides a new version of SM graphically. The main boost you see from DX10 is how it handles multithreading and rendering. Look it up, I don't ahve enough time for linkage.
Soulspatch	Posted - 2007.11.22 04:46:00 - [7] I have heard that MS are planning on releasing DX 10 for XP, though they were not originally going to do this, they are only doing it because of the slow up take of Vista. Vista has only been slow on the up take because there are almost no programs specifically designed to run on it. And yes DX 10 is backward compatable (to my knowledge), but you have to have the hardware to run it. I don't know about Crysis only being a fancy DX 9 base, as far as I know it was designed specifically to run on DX 10. I spent $3,000+ to build my own system based on the information that EVE Vista was going to be released before X-mas, now I hear different, that it has been put on the back burner. How long do I have to wait, hopefully CCP will respond to this thread. I could only guess that CCP has already done a lot of work toward Vista and DX 10 and the next major install for Trinity is in prep for a Vista release. CCP said it would be this year, I hope they keep there promiss.
Amida Ta	Posted - 2007.11.22 08:48:00 - [8] Originally by: Vrenth Originally by: Arana Tellen Originally by: Vrenth Originally by: Hu Lacour Originally by: Soulspatch Just played the DX 10 demo of Crysis (yet to be released) on my Vista 64 system, makes BF2 on max settings look like frogger on a ZX81. When can we expect EVE Vista to be released??? Funny thing is that crysis is actually dx9, not dx10.. they just limited "best" settings for vista only :/ I wonder how well did MS money taste. One of the most beautiful games I have seen yet... and it is based on dx9, but was almost comlpletely redone with dx10's architecture. You know that dx10 IS backwards compatible with dx9 right? It is the same as the previous direct X releases... MS just lied. The Crytek 2 engine IS fully DX10, that doesn't mean they didn't modify it. Bull****, if that was the case the hacks would not only be able to run DX10 in software mode on XP Again, you weren't listening.. that is because it is impossible to install anything related to DX10 on XP... I'm saying that dx10 has very few differences apart from previous DX updates (7 to 8 ect.). MS just put more independent calls for DX10 to prevent people from using DX10 game clients on previous DX builds. Hence, companies are releasing games with 2 clients (with practically no differences besides performance and minor shaders). DX10 did not add much besides a new version of SM graphically. The main boost you see from DX10 is how it handles multithreading and rendering. Look it up, I don't ahve enough time for linkage. Sorry but this is just stupid. And obviously you cannot give links because there aren't any (besides forum/blog posts of other people like you). Try this: http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/display/default.mspx
Vrenth Gallente 23rd Armor Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.22 09:16:00 - [9] Edited by: Vrenth on 22/11/2007 09:24:34 Edited by: Vrenth on 22/11/2007 09:18:33 Why do I bother... try: I have a life and was on my work break... Learn to show some respect and go troll somewhere else. No need to be rude. Also, I'm not sure about an official dx10 release for XP, but you can get XP running with dx10 with some of the files... I wouldn't expect the performance that vista will give you though... it may be buggy, but it is the future of gaming (at least until the kinks are worked out of Ubuntu) Look the patch (or instructions rather) on google.
Nasair	Posted - 2007.11.22 10:01:00 - [10] Originally by: Vrenth Edited by: Vrenth on 22/11/2007 09:24:34 Edited by: Vrenth on 22/11/2007 09:18:33 Why do I bother... try: I have a life and was on my work break... Learn to show some respect and go troll somewhere else. No need to be rude. Also, I'm not sure about an official dx10 release for XP, but you can get XP running with dx10 with some of the files... I wouldn't expect the performance that vista will give you though... it may be buggy, but it is the future of gaming (at least until the kinks are worked out of Ubuntu) Look the patch (or instructions rather) on google. Yes they have got it running, under EMULATION, which means its all on the CPU. This leads to pretty pathetic performance. The above shows you have no idea what is actually going on. Read up a bit.

BigWhale Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.22 10:45:00 - [11] Originally by: Nasair Yes they have got it running, under EMULATION, which means its all on the CPU. This leads to pretty pathetic performance. The above shows you have no idea what is actually going on. Read up a bit. The above shows you have no idea what is actually going on. Cedega wrapped EVE doesn't run all on CPU. GPU does share if its work too. :) -- R, U & Y are letters...
Katana Seiko Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.22 11:04:00 - [12] ahem... Have you ever heard of EVE: Trinity? If that doesn't make Crysis look like an old ego shooter from the mid-90ies, there's no help for you... Actually, while we're at it... Why is SiSi down for the past whatsoever, long time? Is it possible someone finally installed the switch to turn on Trinity graphics? After all, it needs to be tested before patching or it's never play on patch week/month... --- This is your Captain speaking. Thank you for flying with our spaceline. Please remain seated until the ship has completely burned out. Thank you.
Soulsfire	Posted - 2007.11.23 03:43:00 - [13] Originally by: Katana Seiko ahem... Have you ever heard of EVE: Trinity? If that doesn't make Crysis look like an old ego shooter from the mid-90ies, there's no help for you... DX 9 can only render about 500 objects on a screen, DX 10 can render in the thousand's. It not necessarily about the quality, but also the quantity and the new DX 10 vid cards are designed to utilise the power needed to under take those processes. The quality on DX 9 can be almost as good as DX 10, but DX 9 is limited to about 500 renderings per screen. Thats why things like asteroid belts on the current client look small, they are limit to 500 objects. More objects, less performance, lots of objects and performance goes out the window. Unlike games such as BF 2 which have a limited player count and object count per screen, Crysis, if you have seen it, is packed. You can move, shot, blow up and generally add screen counts without the loss in performance. Also DX 10 is far more efficient. Using DX 9 all cards including DX 10 cards are limited to a fixed number of vertex and pixel shaders. If a screen requires more pixel and less vertex then the excess vertex go unused and likewise if more vertex is required etc.... DX 10 have in addition to fixed vertex and pixel shaders a third pipeline that can be utilise as either pixel or vertex, that is why DX 9 cards cannot run DX 10 and DX 10 is far more powerful than DX 9 will ever be. Thats why I said it's not just about the quality of the image. At present while EVE runs a DX 9 client, the power of my video card is limited to the number of fixed vertex and pixel shaders. In one of the interviews, I think they said that a station will have like 40,000 poloygons. Thats a s*** load that a card with fixed pipelines has to render for ONE object. Put 200+ ships along with 20, 30, 40 objects at a station or POS or asteriod field and performance dies, I am sure you have seen this happen, and it's not just because of internet bandwidth, but also GPU processing power. Its a very simple explanation, but thats what I have learned about the next DX 10. You want to live on DX 9, you are welcome to stay in the stone ages.
Aki Yamato	Posted - 2007.11.23 05:11:00 - [14] Umm interesting thing about that Maximum renderable objects under DX9 since im quite sure I'm able to display thousands of object with milions of polygons in 3D MAX viewport witch are runned by DX9. BIG GUN BIG FUTURE
Fanjita	Posted - 2007.11.23 07:02:00 - [15] Originally by: Arana Tellen Originally by: Vrenth Originally by: Hu Lacour Originally by: Soulspatch Just played the DX 10 demo of Crysis (yet to be released) on my Vista 64 system, makes BF2 on max settings look like frogger on a ZX81. When can we expect EVE Vista to be released??? Funny thing is that crysis is actually dx9, not dx10.. they just limited "best" settings for vista only :/ I wonder how well did MS money taste. One of the most beautiful games I have seen yet... and it is based on dx9, but was almost comlpletely redone with dx10's architecture. You know that dx10 IS backwards compatible with dx9 right? It is the same as the previous direct X releases... MS just lied. The Crytek 2 engine IS fully DX10, that doesn't mean they didn't modify it. Bull****, if that was the case the hacks would not only be able to run DX10 in software mode on XP not only that but crysis actually plays faster with the dx10 tweaks on xp in dx 9 than it does in native dx 10 mode on vista lol
Vrenth Gallente 23rd Armor Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.23 07:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Nasair Originally by: Vrenth Edited by: Vrenth on 22/11/2007 09:24:34 Edited by: Vrenth on 22/11/2007 09:18:33 Why do I bother... try: I have a life and was on my work break... Learn to show some respect and go troll somewhere else. No need to be rude. Also, I'm not sure about an official dx10 release for XP, but you can get XP running with dx10 with some of the files... I wouldn't expect the performance that vista will give you though... it may be buggy, but it is the future of gaming (at least until the kinks are worked out of Ubuntu) Look the patch (or instructions rather) on google. Yes they have got it running, under EMULATION, which means its all on the CPU. This leads to pretty pathetic performance. The above shows you have no idea what is actually going on. Read up a bit. I have vista, why would I need to emulate dx10 or research it.. quit bashing me here for tossing in my input or advice... your rude attitude is not appreciated nor nessesary. We all play the same game. Learn to interact with people and show some respect for people's feelings.
Darken Two Gallente Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.23 07:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Nasair Originally by: Vrenth Edited by: Vrenth on 22/11/2007 09:24:34 Edited by: Vrenth on 22/11/2007 09:18:33 Why do I bother... try: I have a life and was on my work break... Learn to show some respect and go troll somewhere else. No need to be rude. Also, I'm not sure about an official dx10 release for XP, but you can get XP running with dx10 with some of the files... I wouldn't expect the performance that vista will give you though... it may be buggy, but it is the future of gaming (at least until the kinks are worked out of Ubuntu) Look the patch (or instructions rather) on google. Yes they have got it running, under EMULATION, which means its all on the CPU. This leads to pretty pathetic performance. The above shows you have no idea what is actually going on. Read up a bit. Are you ten years old or something. It seems you have a hard time discussing issues without beign rude. Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
Amida Ta	Posted - 2007.11.23 09:31:00 - [18] Edited by: Amida Ta on 23/11/2007 09:34:53 Originally by: Vrenth Originally by: Nasair Originally by: Vrenth Edited by: Vrenth on 22/11/2007 09:24:34 Edited by: Vrenth on 22/11/2007 09:18:33 Why do I bother... try: I have a life and was on my work break... Learn to show some respect and go troll somewhere else. No need to be rude. Also, I'm not sure about an official dx10 release for XP, but you can get XP running with dx10 with some of the files... I wouldn't expect the performance that vista will give you though... it may be buggy, but it is the future of gaming (at least until the kinks are worked out of Ubuntu) Look the patch (or instructions rather) on google. Yes they have got it running, under EMULATION, which means its all on the CPU. This leads to pretty pathetic performance. The above shows you have no idea what is actually going on. Read up a bit. I have vista, why would I need to emulate dx10 or research it.. quit bashing me here for tossing in my input or advice... your rude attitude is not appreciated nor nessesary. We all play the same game. Learn to interact with people and show some respect for people's feelings. I'm completely in line with that. But I can understand Nasair very good. You repeatedly state things that are (obviously, at least obviously for somebody who works in software-development) wrong. This is seen as FUD on the web which is one of the most rude thing you can do - especially in conjunction with not even trying to back up anything you say at all (Google for it - which essentially means I don't care). Now people even give you links and advice ("Read up a bit") and the only thing you do is to personally attack the people an telling them THEY are rude. Personally people that spread FUD make me mad because FUD is the demise of the web. So if you want respect for your feelings then maybe it's a good start to learn to interact with people and show some respect for their feelings, too. Btw. Nessir isn't entirely correct. They are using emulation, but this emulation doesn't entirely run on the CPU, it also runs partially on the GPU. But that doesn't make that a viable aproach either, because it doesn't matter if things are 10000times slower than regular or just 100times (made up numbers), but probably in the ballpark. And this is surely not the future - people have been working on this for two years and what they managed to get running till now is basically drawing a single triangle (which obviously wouldn't need DX10 in the first place anyways)... P.S. If you are interested in that topic I already posted a link. Read about WDDM first, then Vista and then DX10.
Vrenth Gallente 23rd Armor Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.23 22:44:00 - [19] Christ on a *****er... Ever think that posting a method of hacking OS files on the forum may not be allowed? Chill out.
Pinpisa Jormao	Posted - 2007.11.23 22:52:00 - [20] You can make a "dx10 game" today but if you (game dev) actually use the features new in dx10 hardware you'll find they're "first generation perf" meaning unusably slow. That's almost always the case when new features come. Don't expect to see any non-trivial game use the big new DX10 features like the geometry shader in a while.

Soulsfire	Posted - 2007.11.24 00:55:00 - [21] Originally by: Pinpisa Jormao You can make a "dx10 game" today but if you (game dev) actually use the features new in dx10 hardware you'll find they're "first generation perf" meaning unusably slow. That's almost always the case when new features come. Don't expect to see any non-trivial game use the big new DX10 features like the geometry shader in a while. I agree some what with that statement. After all, how long has DX 9 been out (for years) and we are only just moving off a DX 8 EVE client(?) to DX 9c. A lot of new games are patching to DX 10 standard, but that does not mean they will utilise all the power and functions of DX 10. It could be years before we see a stand alone DX 10 EVE client. Even on patched games the performance and graphical increase is notable.


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