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Wei Hong	Posted - 2007.11.21 23:32:00 - [1] Either of em worth considering? If so, what are the pros and cons, forgetting missile training? Or are they both EMo like most of Amarr? Thanks in advance for constructive replies.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2007.11.22 00:35:00 - [2] Originally by: Wei Hong Either of em worth considering? If so, what are the pros and cons, forgetting missile training? Or are they both EMo like most of Amarr? Thanks in advance for constructive replies. Abso-slow decent dps(about 750)and very strong tank. Damnation-slow crap dps and an ungodly tank....And yes this ship would be close to emo.
Wei Hong	Posted - 2007.11.22 03:58:00 - [3] Thanks. Sounds like Abso is the way to go. But are there any tank+ab+guns issues like on most Amarr gunboats? (I dont trust EFT; experience > all :) )
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.11.22 04:04:00 - [4] Originally by: Wei Hong Thanks. Sounds like Abso is the way to go. But are there any tank+ab+guns issues like on most Amarr gunboats? (I dont trust EFT; experience > all :) ) The absolution is one of the Amarr ships that can Gank, Tank and (sort of) Tackle at the same time. No immense cap problems anyway and the CPU and PG is more generous than most amarr ships. As for the Damnation. Nothing beats a damnation as a squad/wing/fleet booster. It can basically turn a semi-tough fleet into a hard-as-nails monster fleet. Especially if you're running a remote repping fleet. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services The Acquisition	Posted - 2007.11.22 04:34:00 - [5] Both are excellent ships. The Absolution puts out admirable DPS while sustaining a powerful tank. 3 med slots mean you have a little trouble tackling solo, but if you fly Amarr you should be used to that. The Damnation has all the usual advantages associated with a fleet commandship, and an absurdly hard tank. Horrible DPS, though. 4 med slots but you really shouldn't be flying it solo anyway.
Wei Hong	Posted - 2007.11.22 05:18:00 - [6] Im still kinda recovering from the EMo amarr problem so im still not sure if amarr is the way to go at all. On the plus side, it's self-sustained: next to no ammo and no need for cap boosters, on the downside its dead slow and easy to pick a tank against. Anything else - i do not know, hoping to get some first hand info from this thread. How do they compare to other com ships? Im thinking a solo pwnmobile that can do something on a gatecamp with minimal support without wasting 2x as much isk for mods as the ship cost itself. Impossible, you tell me? I know. But it dont stop me from trying to get as close to that as possible.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2007.11.22 07:22:00 - [7] Originally by: Wei Hong Im still kinda recovering from the EMo amarr problem so im still not sure if amarr is the way to go at all. On the plus side, it's self-sustained: next to no ammo and no need for cap boosters, on the downside its dead slow and easy to pick a tank against. Anything else - i do not know, hoping to get some first hand info from this thread. How do they compare to other com ships? Im thinking a solo pwnmobile that can do something on a gatecamp with minimal support without wasting 2x as much isk for mods as the ship cost itself. Impossible, you tell me? I know. But it dont stop me from trying to get as close to that as possible. There would be no reason an abso couldnt stand up against any of the other field commands,as for the damnation vs other fleet commands that would be a sad looking fight where tank just dont break....EVER.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.22 07:47:00 - [8] Originally by: Wei Hong Im still kinda recovering from the EMo amarr problem so im still not sure if amarr is the way to go at all. On the plus side, it's self-sustained: next to no ammo and no need for cap boosters, on the downside its dead slow and easy to pick a tank against. Anything else - i do not know, hoping to get some first hand info from this thread. How do they compare to other com ships? Im thinking a solo pwnmobile that can do something on a gatecamp with minimal support without wasting 2x as much isk for mods as the ship cost itself. Impossible, you tell me? I know. But it dont stop me from trying to get as close to that as possible. 1. Abso needs injector. No injector = no repping+guns. On contrary to what others say firing conflagration on maxskills + warp scrambling can drain your cap (in MWD setup, in AB setup its just holding with guns). Shooting + repping is no go. 2. Abso needs MWD. No MWD = you are dead when 1st decent BS gets close to you. MWD is important for keeping BS at range/disengaging. 3. Abso as solopwnmboile on gate will not work. Its lock time is closer to one of the titan - so you will prolly catch only slow BCs and BS's (bs problem described above). Plus gate guns will force you to rep constantly = even less cap for you. You can ofc. go for cap recharge instead of injector (2x cpr? ccc's?) but then damage or tank suffers. 4. if you worry abt module prices then dont fly CS i guess ;p they cost 170+m iirc so putting 100+m in mods on it actually is a good idea. As for solopwnmobiles: think astarte is better. Tad worse tank, tad better damage and 4 mids. This comes from s1 who flies both abso and astarte (and soon to be sleipnir ;p yeh i like CS's just not using abso lately in favour of astarte).
Andaron	Posted - 2007.11.22 08:08:00 - [9] Isn't the abso getting a 4th midslot in Trinity? I could of sworn I saw a picture of its new slot layout but my eyes could have been playing tricks on me
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.11.22 08:22:00 - [10] Originally by: Deva Blackfire 1. Abso needs injector. No injector = no repping+guns. On contrary to what others say firing conflagration on maxskills + warp scrambling can drain your cap (in MWD setup, in AB setup its just holding with guns). Shooting + repping is no go. 2. Abso needs MWD. No MWD = you are dead when 1st decent BS gets close to you. MWD is important for keeping BS at range/disengaging. 3. Abso as solopwnmboile on gate will not work. Its lock time is closer to one of the titan - so you will prolly catch only slow BCs and BS's (bs problem described above). Plus gate guns will force you to rep constantly = even less cap for you. You can ofc. go for cap recharge instead of injector (2x cpr? ccc's?) but then damage or tank suffers. 4. if you worry abt module prices then dont fly CS i guess ;p they cost 170+m iirc so putting 100+m in mods on it actually is a good idea. As for solopwnmobiles: think astarte is better. Tad worse tank, tad better damage and 4 mids. This comes from s1 who flies both abso and astarte (and soon to be sleipnir ;p yeh i like CS's just not using abso lately in favour of astarte). I'm puzzled by your point 1, specifically repping and shooting simultaneously. I've no problem doing that for 1 minute with dual MAR's + conflag, after that I must use the booster. But with 10x 800's cap charges in cargohold, the show can last for 2 minutes more.
humperdink	Posted - 2007.11.22 08:31:00 - [11] conflag lol....use amarr navy multifrequency yes it does a little bit more em that thermal dmg but conflag uses 25% more cap and has a 50% tracking penalty.....conflag=only good vs BS
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.22 10:29:00 - [12] If you're a wing commander of a large wing or a fleet commander, or it you absolutely must have the best tank possible, then go for the Damnation. For everything else, go for the Absolution. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
adriaans Amarr Advanced Capital Ship Designs	Posted - 2007.11.22 12:38:00 - [13] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Wei Hong Either of em worth considering? If so, what are the pros and cons, forgetting missile training? Or are they both EMo like most of Amarr? Thanks in advance for constructive replies. Abso-slow decent dps(about 750)and very strong tank. Damnation-slow crap dps and an ungodly tank....And yes this ship would be close to emo. you don't get 750 dps AND a good tank at the same time (i.e. 90% resist across and dual rep). -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr! (Or make Amarr the only race able to deal EM damage from turrets).
adriaans Amarr Advanced Capital Ship Designs	Posted - 2007.11.22 12:40:00 - [14] Originally by: Andaron Isn't the abso getting a 4th midslot in Trinity? I could of sworn I saw a picture of its new slot layout but my eyes could have been playing tricks on me it was a fake, last i checked it didn't have that. -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr! (Or make Amarr the only race able to deal EM damage from turrets).
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.11.22 12:43:00 - [15] Originally by: adriaans Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Wei Hong Either of em worth considering? If so, what are the pros and cons, forgetting missile training? Or are they both EMo like most of Amarr? Thanks in advance for constructive replies. Abso-slow decent dps(about 750)and very strong tank. Damnation-slow crap dps and an ungodly tank....And yes this ship would be close to emo. you don't get 750 dps AND a good tank at the same time (i.e. 90% resist across and dual rep). Correct, but getting 650 DPS with a passive tank all res between 85 & 89% along dual MAR's is common.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.22 12:58:00 - [16] Originally by: Semkhet Originally by: Deva Blackfire 1. Abso needs injector. No injector = no repping+guns. On contrary to what others say firing conflagration on maxskills + warp scrambling can drain your cap (in MWD setup, in AB setup its just holding with guns). Shooting + repping is no go. 2. Abso needs MWD. No MWD = you are dead when 1st decent BS gets close to you. MWD is important for keeping BS at range/disengaging. 3. Abso as solopwnmboile on gate will not work. Its lock time is closer to one of the titan - so you will prolly catch only slow BCs and BS's (bs problem described above). Plus gate guns will force you to rep constantly = even less cap for you. You can ofc. go for cap recharge instead of injector (2x cpr? ccc's?) but then damage or tank suffers. 4. if you worry abt module prices then dont fly CS i guess ;p they cost 170+m iirc so putting 100+m in mods on it actually is a good idea. As for solopwnmobiles: think astarte is better. Tad worse tank, tad better damage and 4 mids. This comes from s1 who flies both abso and astarte (and soon to be sleipnir ;p yeh i like CS's just not using abso lately in favour of astarte). I'm puzzled by your point 1, specifically repping and shooting simultaneously. I've no problem doing that for 1 minute with dual MAR's + conflag, after that I must use the booster. But with 10x 800's cap charges in cargohold, the show can last for 2 minutes more. If you dualrep only for 1 minute (and enemy dies) it usually means their damage wont break your hp buffer before they die anyways. Also you just confirmed what i said: w/o injectors you fight for 1min, then you die, what means you cant use mwd+web+scram setup. UNLESS you want to kill NPCing cruisers/newbs at gates... then tbh you dont need even absolution as harbinger will do the job (same damage, you dont need tank anyways).
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2007.11.22 20:34:00 - [17] Edited by: goodby4u on 22/11/2007 20:37:02 Originally by: adriaans Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Wei Hong Either of em worth considering? If so, what are the pros and cons, forgetting missile training? Or are they both EMo like most of Amarr? Thanks in advance for constructive replies. Abso-slow decent dps(about 750)and very strong tank. Damnation-slow crap dps and an ungodly tank....And yes this ship would be close to emo. you don't get 750 dps AND a good tank at the same time (i.e. 90% resist across and dual rep). I guess what your view of a good tank is different then mine,as for me i get around 700(i dont have perfect gunnery skills)and i usually use 6x heavy pulse with conflag and 2x heatsinks,and really whatever drones,usually warrior IIs. EDIT:eft says the max dps is 719,not 750...I dont usually look into my setups on eft all that much...Although i guess with some implants you can get up to 750 but meh.
Rudy Metallo G.H.O.S.T	Posted - 2007.11.22 21:09:00 - [18] Abso is for small (>10) gangs, Damnation for anything bigger for the sheer tanky tanky. --
Kailiao The Black Fleet The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2007.11.22 21:26:00 - [19] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Wei Hong Im still kinda recovering from the EMo amarr problem so im still not sure if amarr is the way to go at all. On the plus side, it's self-sustained: next to no ammo and no need for cap boosters, on the downside its dead slow and easy to pick a tank against. Anything else - i do not know, hoping to get some first hand info from this thread. How do they compare to other com ships? Im thinking a solo pwnmobile that can do something on a gatecamp with minimal support without wasting 2x as much isk for mods as the ship cost itself. Impossible, you tell me? I know. But it dont stop me from trying to get as close to that as possible. 1. Abso needs injector. No injector = no repping+guns. On contrary to what others say firing conflagration on maxskills + warp scrambling can drain your cap (in MWD setup, in AB setup its just holding with guns). Shooting + repping is no go. 2. Abso needs MWD. No MWD = you are dead when 1st decent BS gets close to you. MWD is important for keeping BS at range/disengaging. 3. Abso as solopwnmboile on gate will not work. Its lock time is closer to one of the titan - so you will prolly catch only slow BCs and BS's (bs problem described above). Plus gate guns will force you to rep constantly = even less cap for you. You can ofc. go for cap recharge instead of injector (2x cpr? ccc's?) but then damage or tank suffers. 4. if you worry abt module prices then dont fly CS i guess ;p they cost 170+m iirc so putting 100+m in mods on it actually is a good idea. As for solopwnmobiles: think astarte is better. Tad worse tank, tad better damage and 4 mids. This comes from s1 who flies both abso and astarte (and soon to be sleipnir ;p yeh i like CS's just not using abso lately in favour of astarte). Sorry mate but putting a mwd on an abso, is killing the ship. I don't need to run, even from multiple bs's, the tank and dam you can do is allmost %32 better with-out an mwd, and a web fitted.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2007.11.22 21:29:00 - [20] Originally by: Kailiao Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Wei Hong Im still kinda recovering from the EMo amarr problem so im still not sure if amarr is the way to go at all. On the plus side, it's self-sustained: next to no ammo and no need for cap boosters, on the downside its dead slow and easy to pick a tank against. Anything else - i do not know, hoping to get some first hand info from this thread. How do they compare to other com ships? Im thinking a solo pwnmobile that can do something on a gatecamp with minimal support without wasting 2x as much isk for mods as the ship cost itself. Impossible, you tell me? I know. But it dont stop me from trying to get as close to that as possible. 1. Abso needs injector. No injector = no repping+guns. On contrary to what others say firing conflagration on maxskills + warp scrambling can drain your cap (in MWD setup, in AB setup its just holding with guns). Shooting + repping is no go. 2. Abso needs MWD. No MWD = you are dead when 1st decent BS gets close to you. MWD is important for keeping BS at range/disengaging. 3. Abso as solopwnmboile on gate will not work. Its lock time is closer to one of the titan - so you will prolly catch only slow BCs and BS's (bs problem described above). Plus gate guns will force you to rep constantly = even less cap for you. You can ofc. go for cap recharge instead of injector (2x cpr? ccc's?) but then damage or tank suffers. 4. if you worry abt module prices then dont fly CS i guess ;p they cost 170+m iirc so putting 100+m in mods on it actually is a good idea. As for solopwnmobiles: think astarte is better. Tad worse tank, tad better damage and 4 mids. This comes from s1 who flies both abso and astarte (and soon to be sleipnir ;p yeh i like CS's just not using abso lately in favour of astarte). Sorry mate but putting a mwd on an abso, is killing the ship. I don't need to run, even from multiple bs's, the tank and dam you can do is allmost %32 better with-out an mwd, and a web fitted. There are a couple of situations where youll be correct,however having a mwd on your ship gives you atleast a chance to get away if the situation gets sticky. As for injectors,running dual reps with conflag even without a mwd fitted would be pretty impossible without an injector....Or gimping yourself with power relays that is.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.22 21:45:00 - [21] Originally by: Kailiao Sorry mate but putting a mwd on an abso, is killing the ship. I don't need to run, even from multiple bs's, the tank and dam you can do is allmost %32 better with-out an mwd, and a web fitted. You pvp much? Coz NPC bs dont count... Pretty much any GOOD bs pilot will wipe out the floor with your abso in 1v1. And you are trying to tank "multiple bs". Like i said earlier - im not talking abt "lets kill that ratting raven" pvp - coz thats just ganking and you dont need abso anyways.
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.22 22:09:00 - [22] Compairing the Abso and the Damni is simply dumb. . . If you have trained the gang link skills and are going to fit 3 gang link mods, fly in a group and harden the tank. . .then ya, the Damni is worth it, armor bonus' are always worth it in gangs. If you want to actually do any damage, then fly the Absolution. pretty simple. . .ones a field and the other is a fleet command ship - different ship classes. . .different roles. ----
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.11.22 23:07:00 - [23] Edited by: Semkhet on 22/11/2007 23:15:50 Originally by: Deva Blackfire If you dualrep only for 1 minute (and enemy dies) it usually means their damage wont break your hp buffer before they die anyways. Also you just confirmed what i said: w/o injectors you fight for 1min, then you die, what means you cant use mwd+web+scram setup. UNLESS you want to kill NPCing cruisers/newbs at gates... then tbh you dont need even absolution as harbinger will do the job (same damage, you dont need tank anyways). When I sometimes use the Abso solo (I know, I know...), it's MWD/scram/injector/dual reps. There are situations where running everything at once is handy since often what counts is to sustain the initial hammering until you take down the highest damage dealer (if you can...), then things cool down and you might even tank with only 1 rep. But I also believe those without CS5 can't really understand what you can get out of an Abso. In an harbinger I feel naked, I miss either dps or tank.
Kailiao The Black Fleet The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2007.11.22 23:36:00 - [24] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Kailiao Sorry mate but putting a mwd on an abso, is killing the ship. I don't need to run, even from multiple bs's, the tank and dam you can do is allmost %32 better with-out an mwd, and a web fitted. You pvp much? Coz NPC bs dont count... Pretty much any GOOD bs pilot will wipe out the floor with your abso in 1v1. And you are trying to tank "multiple bs". Like i said earlier - im not talking abt "lets kill that ratting raven" pvp - coz thats just ganking and you dont need abso anyways. pvp much, lol, 460+ solo kills mate, and i didn't need a mwd, or a 30-man gang to do it. did a 3 teck 2 fitted bs, vs my abso and won. you wanna put your money where your mouth is mate? my abso, no mwd, vs your mwd abso, 500mill to the winner, you game? or let me guess you don't duel?
adriaans Amarr Advanced Capital Ship Designs	Posted - 2007.11.23 01:18:00 - [25] Originally by: goodby4u Edited by: goodby4u on 22/11/2007 20:37:02 Originally by: adriaans Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Wei Hong Either of em worth considering? If so, what are the pros and cons, forgetting missile training? Or are they both EMo like most of Amarr? Thanks in advance for constructive replies. Abso-slow decent dps(about 750)and very strong tank. Damnation-slow crap dps and an ungodly tank....And yes this ship would be close to emo. you don't get 750 dps AND a good tank at the same time (i.e. 90% resist across and dual rep). I guess what your view of a good tank is different then mine,as for me i get around 700(i dont have perfect gunnery skills)and i usually use 6x heavy pulse with conflag and 2x heatsinks,and really whatever drones,usually warrior IIs. EDIT:eft says the max dps is 719,not 750...I dont usually look into my setups on eft all that much...Although i guess with some implants you can get up to 750 but meh. i would say it is then, as i stated i think a good tank is dual rep and 90% resist across, if i want to gank i go and grab an astarte. -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr! (Or make Amarr the only race able to deal EM damage from turrets).
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.11.23 02:08:00 - [26] Originally by: Kailiao Sorry mate but putting a mwd on an abso, is killing the ship. lol? D-F-C recruitment closed
Kailiao The Black Fleet The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2007.11.23 04:36:00 - [27] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: Kailiao Sorry mate but putting a mwd on an abso, is killing the ship. lol? lol is right mate, still waiting for you to prove me outherwize
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.11.23 05:09:00 - [28] No matter if you would have won or lost it won't prove anything. EVE is not a matter of solo duels to the death versus mirror matched ships. Of course the AB ship is going to win in a duel to the death vs its MWD opponent. Heck, I could probably take an AB thorax and win vs an MWD thorax (yet does anyone say that the AB thorax is the better ship?). Why? because range matters alot less when you're using the same weapon on the same ship. No matter what distance he maintains the AB will have the advantage as it will be using the same guns, with the same advantages and drawbacks but it has 25% more cap and 100 more PG. Now in multi-opponent fights vs a whole slew of different ships it would be a different matter, but those are much harder to judge. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.23 10:46:00 - [29] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 23/11/2007 10:47:43 Originally by: Kailiao pvp much, lol, 460+ solo kills mate, and i didn't need a mwd, or a 30-man gang to do it. did a 3 teck 2 fitted bs, vs my abso and won. you wanna put your money where your mouth is mate? my abso, no mwd, vs your mwd abso, 500mill to the winner, you game? or let me guess you don't duel? As for not using gang: its your call. EVE is multiplayer game, i take advantage of having corp/friends. If you want to gimp yourself its your call. Plus i dont count my kills, too many of em on too many KB's so dont care. k/d stats are only for BOB members. As for your "duel": Sure, winner is the one who is dead. Lets say this: if you dont disconnect i mwd away and warp off, tie. Duel just ended w/o me entering game. Also you are fairly stupid or ignorant coz everyone knows that 1v1 in gun range non-MWD abso will win. Maybe other game. Lets fly around lowsec (rancer, aunenen, other camp spots). 1st one to pass 100 jumps is the winner? Why use MWD? Checked some of your kills (battleclinic i think): 83 abso kills 11 deaths. Dying to solo domi (thats all abt "i can tank multiple bs") and **loads of losec gatecamps which are quite easy to evade if you just have MWD fitted (also consisting of multiple BS). Quote:** lol is right mate, still waiting for you to prove me outherwize How many times did you die on gatecamps in your slowass abso? Thats the proof enough. Also speed>tank, ask any sleipnir pilot. And no there arent any proofs of MWD setups > tank setups. Why? Because MWD setups rarely leave "i died" mark on KB. So pretty much you can only see failures of slower setup.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2007.11.23 19:22:00 - [30] Originally by: adriaans Originally by: goodby4u Edited by: goodby4u on 22/11/2007 20:37:02 Originally by: adriaans Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Wei Hong Either of em worth considering? If so, what are the pros and cons, forgetting missile training? Or are they both EMo like most of Amarr? Thanks in advance for constructive replies. Abso-slow decent dps(about 750)and very strong tank. Damnation-slow crap dps and an ungodly tank....And yes this ship would be close to emo. you don't get 750 dps AND a good tank at the same time (i.e. 90% resist across and dual rep). I guess what your view of a good tank is different then mine,as for me i get around 700(i dont have perfect gunnery skills)and i usually use 6x heavy pulse with conflag and 2x heatsinks,and really whatever drones,usually warrior IIs. EDIT:eft says the max dps is 719,not 750...I dont usually look into my setups on eft all that much...Although i guess with some implants you can get up to 750 but meh. i would say it is then, as i stated i think a good tank is dual rep and 90% resist across, if i want to gank i go and grab an astarte. Kinda true,but ive always hated getting into a situation where i dont have enough dps to break somebodies tank,tbh 2 heatsinks for the abso is a must especially if your going to solo with it.

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