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Combating Suicide Gankers

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kla samon Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2012.01.31 09:17:00 - [1] - Quote I have nothing against suicide ganking, however; there is currently nothing the victims can do to retaliate against the gankers. They can take precautions, such as limiting the value of what they haul etc. but they can't hit back in a meaningful way against someone who is willing to hide behind some disposable alt losing their ship to see you lose yours. What I propose is the ability to haul decoy cargo. When scanned down it would look like real cargo but when popped all that drops is space junk. I for one would be more than happy to slow boat from one end of the universe to another, losing haulers to drink up bitter ganker tears. According to the gankers that is the real reason of eve right? Drinking up the tears of others? I've never been the victim of a suicide gank but i'd be more than willing to be one Hell I'd even be willing to sacrifice the occasional freighter for this cause.
Siex Buccaneers of New Eden The Forsaken. 65	Posted - 2012.01.31 09:29:00 - [2] - Quote yea good idea Jita spam is bad enough, could you imagine if there was decoy valueless CNRs... omg I will still collect your tears... this is EVE, and tear collecting will evolves with your pitiful attempts to curb it
kla samon Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2012.01.31 09:29:00 - [3] - Quote Another quick thought. The wrecks of anyone Concorded should belong to the victims of the suicide gank and their fleet. In adittion a new bounty system could be put in place so the the victim of the suicide gank would get a restitution bounty based on the suicide gankers ships used. Obviously the restitution system would have to be fine tuned but it should set up to be good enough to be break even against most suicide ganks. This way, a successful suicide gank = gankers profit and a successful gankbait = gankbaiter profit.
kla samon Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2012.01.31 09:31:00 - [4] - Quote Siex wrote: yea good idea Jita spam is bad enough, could you imagine if there was decoy valueless CNRs... omg I will still collect your tears... this is EVE, and tear collecting will evolves with your pitiful attempts to curb it Easy solution, make the junk despawn after a few minutes. You can't collect my tears. I just don't care enough... However, it's fun to see responses like yours when someone suggests evening up the playing field. Mmmmm yummy.
Velicitia Open Designs 472	Posted - 2012.01.31 14:56:00 - [5] - Quote better way to get would-be ganker tears ... survive long enough for them to get CONCORDOKKEN. obviously, if they brought a fleet that could alpha you, you're out of luck. However, most of the time, I've seen gankers thwarted with nothing more than a heavily tanked badger or itty 5, because (wait for it) .... .... They don't expect a tanked industrial.
Pidgeon Saissore Black Dagger Corp EDEN Alliance 12	Posted - 2012.02.01 05:54:00 - [6] - Quote Some ideas for modules that do this. Solid cargo hold low slot Turns the ships entire cargo space into hull hp drastically increases ship mass scan image projector med slot When fitted select a number of your assets to imprint on it. These always appear in cargo hold scans. Also make settings that modules activate immediatly on jumping or undocking.
Msgerbs Ironclad Forge STORM. 1	Posted - 2012.02.01 09:51:00 - [7] - Quote Because removing insurance wasn't enough?
Simi Kusoni The Synergy Cascade Imminent 103	Posted - 2012.02.01 10:18:00 - [8] - Quote Velicitia wrote: better way to get would-be ganker tears ... survive long enough for them to get CONCORDOKKEN. obviously, if they brought a fleet that could alpha you, you're out of luck. However, most of the time, I've seen gankers thwarted with nothing more than a heavily tanked badger or itty 5, because (wait for it) .... .... They don't expect a tanked industrial. +1 I rarely move anything around high sec, at least anything I can't fit in a covert ops, but last time I did I got to watch a thrasher go pop trying to gank me in .5 Made the trip a little more fun at least.
Death Warmedup Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2012.02.01 10:34:00 - [9] - Quote i once experimented with named bookmarks that i draged into my cargo. apart from the icons, they look the part in the cargo hold, but alas, their names didn't show up on the scan, only the item type. I'm all for ganking and believe its a perfectly legit part of the game, but i would get much satisfaction from watching their ships melt under concord heat all for a few cardboard cutouts of valuable stuff :)
Death Warmedup Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2012.02.01 10:36:00 - [10] - Quote Simi Kusoni wrote: Velicitia wrote: better way to get would-be ganker tears ... survive long enough for them to get CONCORDOKKEN. obviously, if they brought a fleet that could alpha you, you're out of luck. However, most of the time, I've seen gankers thwarted with nothing more than a heavily tanked badger or itty 5, because (wait for it) .... .... They don't expect a tanked industrial. +1 I rarely move anything around high sec, at least anything I can't fit in a covert ops, but last time I did I got to watch a thrasher go pop trying to gank me in .5 Made the trip a little more fun at least. I do hope by "anything you cant fit into a cov ops" means nothing at all valuable. in my pirate days, my RSB'd hurricane melted MANY a cov ops ship on the jita undock before they could align to warp off. much safer to move valuable stuff in bigger, better tanked ships
Velicitia Open Designs 486	Posted - 2012.02.01 12:22:00 - [11] - Quote Death Warmedup wrote: Simi Kusoni wrote: Velicitia wrote: better way to get would-be ganker tears ... survive long enough for them to get CONCORDOKKEN. obviously, if they brought a fleet that could alpha you, you're out of luck. However, most of the time, I've seen gankers thwarted with nothing more than a heavily tanked badger or itty 5, because (wait for it) .... .... They don't expect a tanked industrial. +1 I rarely move anything around high sec, at least anything I can't fit in a covert ops, but last time I did I got to watch a thrasher go pop trying to gank me in .5 Made the trip a little more fun at least. I do hope by "anything you cant fit into a cov ops" means nothing at all valuable. in my pirate days, my RSB'd hurricane melted MANY a cov ops ship on the jita undock before they could align to warp off. much safer to move valuable stuff in bigger, better tanked ships even those with an insta undock? or do you mean the nubs who try aligning to Perimeter right at the undock?
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 6019	Posted - 2012.02.01 14:34:00 - [12] - Quote Msgerbs wrote: Because removing insurance wasn't enough? Some of us said it wouldn't be, guess we have been proven right. All that these threads prove is that the whiners don't want to learn, or use the tools provided to avoid ganks. The fact that my alt still has the same BR since they were allowed to fit the covert cloak, says all I need to know about just how safe empire hauling is now. It's not even fitted for speed, it's fitted for maximum cargo space. Yet the whiners still want more change, after the insurance nerf. What a joke you are. CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
Shazzam Vokanavom Hedion University Amarr Empire 36	Posted - 2012.02.01 14:44:00 - [13] - Quote Msgerbs wrote: Because removing insurance wasn't enough? Insurance was never going to effect the outcome of profitability of Suicide ganking. This was discerned prior to the change. And there are gankers in the community claiming to earn a plex worth in an afternoon from the activity. Not profitable enough for you. Please ask how the minium wage miner endangers that? And yet if you ask for mining to be more competative to help replace ship losses, the ganking communities arse tighten up as a result and it starts to flow from other holes. Which is odd really, as if the pinatas could be replaced more quickly it would help with the ganker income. Also other changes where a significant improvement to the ganker's repetoire. Dessies where improved, Tier 3 BCs with large alpha guns introduced to replace more expensive BS use. And yet the sucide ganker still hides behind broken conflict mechanics or abuses NPC and coporation systems to avoid conflict or retaliation. I wonder how many times a ganker has jumped in a newb ship when actually chased down by a miner with teeth. Heaven forbid you might have to one day fight something that actually shoots back. Yep obviously suicide gankers have it too hard, get real.
Serge Bastana GWA Corp 84	Posted - 2012.02.01 14:46:00 - [14] - Quote Mag's wrote: Msgerbs wrote: Because removing insurance wasn't enough? Some of us said it wouldn't be, guess we have been proven right. All that these threads prove is that the whiners don't want to learn, or use the tools provided to avoid ganks. The fact that my alt still has the same BR since they were allowed to fit the covert cloak, says all I need to know about just how safe empire hauling is now. It's not even fitted for speed, it's fitted for maximum cargo space. Yet the whiners still want more change, after the insurance nerf. What a joke you are. As I've said on other similar posts, part of the problem seems to be players coming into EVE from other MMOs and expecting the same sort of cotton wool treatment they get there. Learning to not be a victim can go a long way. in other MMO's stupid people are annoying. In EVE they are a valuable resource /facebrick for those times when /facepalm just isn't enough
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 6019	Posted - 2012.02.01 14:55:00 - [15] - Quote Serge Bastana wrote: Mag's wrote: Msgerbs wrote: Because removing insurance wasn't enough? Some of us said it wouldn't be, guess we have been proven right. All that these threads prove is that the whiners don't want to learn, or use the tools provided to avoid ganks. The fact that my alt still has the same BR since they were allowed to fit the covert cloak, says all I need to know about just how safe empire hauling is now. It's not even fitted for speed, it's fitted for maximum cargo space. Yet the whiners still want more change, after the insurance nerf. What a joke you are. As I've said on other similar posts, part of the problem seems to be players coming into EVE from other MMOs and expecting the same sort of cotton wool treatment they get there. Learning to not be a victim can go a long way. Oh I completely agree. For them it's far easier to run to the forums and whine about game mechanics that have existed by design from day one. CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
Fidelium Mortis Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords 48	Posted - 2012.02.01 14:56:00 - [16] - Quote Don't you get kill rights on someone if they suicide gank your ship? Odds are they probably operate in the area, so you can fit something to counter them and hunt them down. ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon
Serge Bastana GWA Corp 84	Posted - 2012.02.01 15:21:00 - [17] - Quote Fidelium Mortis wrote: Don't you get kill rights on someone if they suicide gank your ship? Odds are they probably operate in the area, so you can fit something to counter them and hunt them down. That would involve risk and effort in other MMO's stupid people are annoying. In EVE they are a valuable resource /facebrick for those times when /facepalm just isn't enough
kla samon Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 9	Posted - 2012.02.01 15:26:00 - [18] - Quote Mag's wrote: Serge Bastana wrote: Mag's wrote: Msgerbs wrote: Because removing insurance wasn't enough? Some of us said it wouldn't be, guess we have been proven right. All that these threads prove is that the whiners don't want to learn, or use the tools provided to avoid ganks. The fact that my alt still has the same BR since they were allowed to fit the covert cloak, says all I need to know about just how safe empire hauling is now. It's not even fitted for speed, it's fitted for maximum cargo space. Yet the whiners still want more change, after the insurance nerf. What a joke you are. As I've said on other similar posts, part of the problem seems to be players coming into EVE from other MMOs and expecting the same sort of cotton wool treatment they get there. Learning to not be a victim can go a long way. Oh I completely agree. For them it's far easier to run to the forums and whine about game mechanics that have existed by design from day one. This thread isn't a whine about suicide ganking at all. I don't want suicide ganking taken out of the game . Nor do i want it harder for them to blow up a ship. I just want a more dynamic mechanism for all parties involved. It's funny though, when someone suggests an idea that threatens easy mode play , whiners come. From what it seems suicide gankers are no better than incursion bears when it comes to suggesting a different approach than the easy mode they currently enjoy. I think gankbears might be an appropriate term. It seems only fair that suicide gankers are able to be targeted in a unique manner as well as them being able to blow up and profit from the unprepared hauler.
Shazzam Vokanavom Hedion University Amarr Empire 36	Posted - 2012.02.01 15:26:00 - [19] - Quote Fidelium Mortis wrote: Don't you get kill rights on someone if they suicide gank your ship? Odds are they probably operate in the area, so you can fit something to counter them and hunt them down. Practice of commonly NPC corp affiliated suicide gankers is that they hide in the station or jump into a newb ship. Some are simply occasional alts as opposed to full blown mains and just log off. They're are very few suicide gankers that don't simply use the mechanics and frustartion to demoralise their victims. Or the obvious discrepency that due to an industrial player having to invest in their related skills they won't on average be able to compete with a purely PvP focussed player. There are reported instances of people being able to retaliate with kill rights however. Suppose if they are "camped" one way or another they aren't suicide ganking, but neither is the industrial earning. However, I take it from this that the "so called" PvP focussed player simply wants to retain the status quo with broken systems as an ongoing benefit for avoidance of confrontation that has remained unfixed for ages?
kla samon Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 9	Posted - 2012.02.01 15:31:00 - [20] - Quote Fidelium Mortis wrote: Don't you get kill rights on someone if they suicide gank your ship? Odds are they probably operate in the area, so you can fit something to counter them and hunt them down. Sure you get rights to the alts that they could care less about and are probably a few days from being recycled. Suicide gankers have no counter. Decoy cargo offers a counter that allows them to do what they like to do (blow up ships) and other players to do what they would like to do (inflict meaningful damage) to gankers. Currently the only problem I see with suicide ganking is that it allows people to hide behind alts and profit without any real meaningful counter. I'm all for blowing up ships in highsec, however; I'm also for the ability to implement true repercussions.
Gizznitt Malikite Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 175	Posted - 2012.02.01 18:05:00 - [21] - Quote kla samon wrote: This thread isn't a whine about suicide ganking at all. I don't want suicide ganking taken out of the game . Nor do i want it harder for them to blow up a ship. I just want a more dynamic mechanism for all parties involved. QFT... Of all the stop-suicide gankers threads, this thread actually adhere's to the core EvE values. It doesn't take away risks, but actually ADDS more risk to the game!!! I think your idea is brilliant!!!! A couple of suggestions: 1.) The decoy container should be configureable with limits. Configure it by linking One, and only one, specific game item, followed by any desired quantity. 2.) It would be appropriate to list the decoy container item, as well as its fake contents, in a ship's cargo scan. 3.) Allow the decoy container to be used in contracts. Where the decoy container is listed, as well as its fake contents. 4.) The decoy container should be a player made object, probably from PI goods (Perhaps a tier 4 product)...
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 6019	Posted - 2012.02.01 18:47:00 - [22] - Quote kla samon wrote: This thread isn't a whine about suicide ganking at all. I don't want suicide ganking taken out of the game . Nor do i want it harder for them to blow up a ship. I just want a more dynamic mechanism for all parties involved. It's funny though, when someone suggests an idea that threatens easy mode play , whiners come. From what it seems suicide gankers are no better than incursion bears when it comes to suggesting a different approach than the easy mode they currently enjoy. I think gankbears might be an appropriate term. It's the very definition of a suicide gank whine thread. You're asking for a change without a valid reason, but giving plenty of misinformation to try and help back it up. kla samon wrote: It seems only fair that suicide gankers are able to be targeted in a unique manner as well as them being able to blow up and profit from the *unprepared hauler.* Bolded the crux of the matter and the funny thing is you stated it, but didn't see it. As far as the hiding in NPC corps is concerned, that works both ways. CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
Gizznitt Malikite Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 175	Posted - 2012.02.01 19:07:00 - [23] - Quote Mag's wrote: .... Unhelpful and moreless irrelevant crap about suicide whiners... Do you actually have something to say on why this would be a good, bad, or irrellevant module for the game, like how it could be improved or misused or what ever? I can't tell if you're trying to add to the discussion, or just trolling!
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 6019	Posted - 2012.02.01 19:23:00 - [24] - Quote Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Mag's wrote: .... Unhelpful and moreless irrelevant crap about suicide whiners... Do you actually have something to say on why this would be a good, bad, or irrellevant module for the game, like how it could be improved or misused or what ever? I can't tell if you're trying to add to the discussion, or just trolling! Ahh yes, the 'you disagree and therefore must be trolling' retort. Nicely played sir, nicely played. I don't see the need for this, as my alts BR is testament to just how easy it is to avoid being ganked. Maybe if the OP was a little more honest and not dish out so much misinformation, many would actually look more favourably at his idea. CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 295	Posted - 2012.02.01 19:33:00 - [25] - Quote solution: make multiple trips alternative solution: buy orca
Simi Kusoni The Synergy Cascade Imminent 103	Posted - 2012.02.01 21:17:00 - [26] - Quote Death Warmedup wrote: I do hope by "anything you cant fit into a cov ops" means nothing at all valuable. in my pirate days, my RSB'd hurricane melted MANY a cov ops ship on the jita undock before they could align to warp off. much safer to move valuable stuff in bigger, better tanked ships I just undock and warp to an insta, to be honest when I say "something of value" I mean items that are valuable to the point where even suicide ganking something with battleship EHP would be profitable. I generally just get around it by not giving them a chance to scan my cargo. I'll probably still lose a load of mods that way one day, but hey, it happens.
Zyress Deaths Head Brigade Gryphon League 25	Posted - 2012.02.01 22:06:00 - [27] - Quote Secure Cargo Containers I think are unscannable, as far as their contents. I suppose if you wanted someone to think you had a really large load you could load up a bunch of them and just leave them empty, of course they are lockable and password protected to so why leave them empty.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 4749	Posted - 2012.02.01 22:18:00 - [28] - Quote Zyress wrote: Secure Cargo Containers I think are unscannable, as far as their contents. No. Scanners can see through one layer of containers in your cargo hold. Quote: I suppose if you wanted someone to think you had a really large load you could load up a bunch of them and just leave them empty, of course they are lockable and password protected to so why leave them empty. Doesn't work either. If a container is full, the container itself doesn't show up on scan; if the container is empty it does. So the guy scanning you will see the empty containers as exactly that: empty containers. Also, locking and password-protecting them makes no difference since it doesn't affect scans and since you can bypass it in-station GÇö it only really works as a protective measure if the container is anchored in space. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Amaroq Dricaldari Total Annihilation. Pandorum Invictus 19	Posted - 2012.02.02 01:45:00 - [29] - Quote Msgerbs wrote: Because removing insurance wasn't enough? Insurance got removed? This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Corina Jarr Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built 554	Posted - 2012.02.02 02:31:00 - [30] - Quote Suicide ganking risks are only "low" because player who get ganked don't make use of things provided for them. Easy prey = low risks. If the targets take the easy way, so do the gankers. Should never be a game mechanic that changes that.

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