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Zavernus Hamarabi Caldari High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.24 10:55:00 - [1] I propose a t2 destroyer. One with two, maybe three launcher slots. The bonuses would be a powergrid bonus to cruise launchers a-la stealth bomber, and a massive sig radius penalty, making the cruise missiles lowest explosion radius 400 or 500 meters (or bigger), making cruise missiles effective only against capital ships and perhaps battleships. This would make destroyers effective in just the way they were designed to (real life destroyers are lightly armored, fast, torpedo ships that can only get off one or two shots then retreat) This is a very rough idea, i think it's a good enough idea and well balanced enough to be a blast to fly and something to help counter larger ships that can't be killed by anything smaller than they are. (I do realize team work kills big ships too, but i believe the new t2 destroyer would open up alot of opportunities for people who can't afford capital ships to combat capital ships) Originally by: Payne Bringer ..flip teacup... wait for kettle to right teacup...gank kettle with the help of a hard hitting tr
Tao Han Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2007.11.24 11:02:00 - [2] Edited by: Tao Han on 24/11/2007 11:02:06 I just have to poke a hole here. But you want a new tech 2 dessie, not improvements to the current, fairly useless destroyer. But I agree, we need both a tier 2 dessie and another tech 2 one.
Waxau Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.24 11:03:00 - [3] Originally by: Tao Han I just have to poke a hole here. But you want a new tech 2 dessie, not improvements to the current, fairly useless destroyer. Gotta agree here. T1 need to be improved. However, theyre are quite good. People just fail to see their usefulness. Most give up on them, as when they first fly them, they have crap skills, and cant make good use of them. Plus tbh, destroyers already have a big enough sig radius. A few cruise launchers wont do anything against a capital too.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2007.11.24 11:09:00 - [4] Originally by: Waxau Gotta agree here. T1 need to be improved. However, theyre are quite good. People just fail to see their usefulness. Agree on both counts.
Annowyn Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.24 11:12:00 - [5] Would be fun. :)
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2007.11.24 11:19:00 - [6] I would love to see a T2 cormorant though still. The T1 version is handy, but just way too fragile. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP
Diek Ran	Posted - 2007.11.24 11:51:00 - [7] Originally by: Waxau Plus tbh, destroyers already have a big enough sig radius. A few cruise launchers wont do anything against a capital too. Yeah, maybe a tiny reduction of destroyers' sig radius would be just enough of an improvement for them.
Blind Jhonson	Posted - 2007.11.24 11:58:00 - [8] mmmmm i'm dow at 90000 percent, a teir 2 destroier, maybe with his t2 version , would be really really interesting SIGNED ccp please give us a second destroyer :)))
NoNah Tenth Legion Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.24 12:14:00 - [9] Give destroyers a neat bonus to tracking and they're perfect imho. Great at removing frigates, but still paperthin when approached by larger ships. Exactly what they're supposed to be imho. Anti-inty of doom. Postcount: 807847
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2007.11.24 12:24:00 - [10] Originally by: NoNah Give destroyers a neat bonus to tracking and they're perfect imho. Great at removing frigates, but still paperthin when approached by larger ships. Exactly what they're supposed to be imho. Anti-inty of doom. They already have a huge tracking bonus.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.11.24 12:26:00 - [11] The destroyers are quite neat... for limited roles. They're very good as anti-frigate snipers and T1 fitted it's possibly the best bang for buck suicide gank ship you can get your hands on (with close to 1000 damage per volley). They could use either one more slot (low or mid) or a slightly smaller signature, but they're still good. The problem is that when you have enough skills to actually use a destroyer with good results most people are already flying ships with a lot more weight and overall firepower. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
deadmeet	Posted - 2007.11.24 13:18:00 - [12] Destroyer are usefull !!! ....... for salvaging...
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.11.24 14:24:00 - [13] Hrm time for a list. Q: Are Destroyers useless? A: No they are amazing anti frigate platforms at high range sniping. Q: Are Destroyers easy to use? A: No, they require dedication and skill point investment into the relevant skills for sniping and power grid / cpu maximising. Q: Are Interdictors T2 Destroyers? A: No, not in the strictest sense, they use the destroyer hulls however they completely change the bonuses and turn them from slow snipers to fast close range tackle. Q: Can Destroyers be better? A: Yes, however it would be difficult and with the upcoming sniping nerf due to scripts on tracking computers and sensor boosters. The best you could ask for is to have their capability returned to prenerf condition. Basically thats the crux of it. To be honest, a new tier2 destroyer would be great, perhaps a more tank style destroyer would be good, What we truly need however is a tech2 of the current tier1's that is a true upgrade of the current tier1's. With better resists, more fittings PG/CPU, more slots and an two new sweet bonuses. Sniping is fun.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.24 14:39:00 - [14] Couple sensor boosters and those 'useless' destroyers are suddenly the ultimate gate-camp friend. ----------------- Friends Forever Kill. BoB. Dead.
Mudkest MetaForge Ekliptika	Posted - 2007.11.24 15:13:00 - [15] Edited by: Mudkest on 24/11/2007 15:13:59 Originally by: Nian Banks Q: Can Destroyers be better? A: Yes, however it would be difficult and with the upcoming sniping nerf due to scripts on tracking computers and sensor boosters. The best you could ask for is to have their capability returned to prenerf condition. hmm, wont that script nerf make dessies actualy better? right now there's AF that outperform dessies cuase of tracking comps(similar range, tracking, damage with far better tank) after the nerf, dessie will have like 5 or so t2 tracking comps build in!(1-2 with tracking script and 2-3 with optimal script and since its ship bonus its not stacking nerfed with any tracking comp you might fit) so think this will make dessies far better then frigates in terms of range/tracking edit: still wouldnt mind a real t2 dessie though(and tier2 dessie too :o) ----- GIEV custom ship paint jobs! I want my hello-kitty-kessie! For your safety do not destroy vital testing apparatus
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.11.24 15:29:00 - [16] Edited by: Nian Banks on 24/11/2007 15:31:16 Originally by: Mudkest Edited by: Mudkest on 24/11/2007 15:13:59 Originally by: Nian Banks Q: Can Destroyers be better? A: Yes, however it would be difficult and with the upcoming sniping nerf due to scripts on tracking computers and sensor boosters. The best you could ask for is to have their capability returned to prenerf condition. hmm, wont that script nerf make dessies actualy better? right now there's AF that outperform dessies cuase of tracking comps(similar range, tracking, damage with far better tank) after the nerf, dessie will have like 5 or so t2 tracking comps build in!(1-2 with tracking script and 2-3 with optimal script and since its ship bonus its not stacking nerfed with any tracking comp you might fit) so think this will make dessies far better then frigates in terms of range/tracking edit: still wouldnt mind a real t2 dessie though(and tier2 dessie too :o) The greatest problem is the lack of medium and low slots, Naturally I can keep my destroyers turret optimal range and the targeting range but to get the same numbers as I would get now with a full t2, rigged, implant fitted ship I would have to use the range scripts, Now although I would keep my 64km optimal 11km falloff with a targeting range of 86km, I would loose all my tracking bonuses and the scan resolution will suck. Thats the issue here. We don't need destroyers to take a nerf.
Chaplain Veritas Amarr The Aduro Protocol The Fifth Race	Posted - 2007.11.24 18:05:00 - [17] Edited by: Chaplain Veritas on 24/11/2007 18:05:24 t1 dessies can be snipers? then give my coercer another flippin midslot . edit for frowny face action ____________________________ the eyes are the groin of the face - dwight shrute
Bardolph	Posted - 2007.11.24 18:10:00 - [18] Destroyers make most excellent salvaging ships. Garbage truck FTW
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2007.11.24 18:25:00 - [19] Problem with destroyers is that you get what you paid for. They're only one step up from t1 frigs and, unlike frigs, they're big and slow making them an easy target for AFs, cruisers, and HACs. I don't know about y'all, but if I ever joined a gang, even a rapid response or local defense, with a destroyer, the commander would tell me to GTFO and rat more. It's just one more ship causing lag that's not going to do any real damage and is going to get insta-popped as soon as anyone cares enough to lock it. The only solution I see is making a destroyer-based medium assault ship, but that's a niche that's already getting a little crowded, and I'd rather they just fixed bloody AFs.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2007.11.24 18:44:00 - [20] Originally by: Chaplain Veritas Edited by: Chaplain Veritas on 24/11/2007 18:05:24 t1 dessies can be snipers? then give my coercer another flippin midslot . edit for frowny face action Train up for Cormorants.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.24 19:02:00 - [21] Originally by: Nian Banks To be honest, a new tier2 destroyer would be great, perhaps a more tank style destroyer would be good, What we truly need however is a tech2 of the current tier1's that is a true upgrade of the current tier1's. With better resists, more fittings PG/CPU, more slots and an two new sweet bonuses. Sniping is fun. I'd really prefer ewar/gang bonus destroyers, personally. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Exlegion Caldari New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.24 19:05:00 - [22] Originally by: Bardolph Destroyers make most excellent salvaging ships. Garbage truck FTW I must quote this for truth One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.11.24 19:15:00 - [23] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Nian Banks To be honest, a new tier2 destroyer would be great, perhaps a more tank style destroyer would be good, What we truly need however is a tech2 of the current tier1's that is a true upgrade of the current tier1's. With better resists, more fittings PG/CPU, more slots and an two new sweet bonuses. Sniping is fun. I'd really prefer ewar/gang bonus destroyers, personally. Liang One problem mate, destroyers main difference to frigates is that they have 7-8 high slots, if they were made ewar, their medium and low slots would have to be increased a fair bit, also their speed and agility would need a little buff, after that their highs would be reduced as they are ewar nor dps. Then you just have a frigate... Basically its pointlessly unneeded, not to mention we already have, One class of T1 Ewar Frigates, one class of T1 Ewar Cruisers, Two classes of t2 ewar frigates and two classes of t2 ewar cruisers. Personally I think thats enough Ewar for the moment ;)
Seteshi	Posted - 2007.11.24 19:24:00 - [24] Personally, I'd like to see destroyers become the only ship able to detect cloakers. Make it so they can only get an inprecise fix, and give them a special launcher that deploys a sort of EMP depth charge that attempts to decloak their victim. This would pretty much give them the exact role they became famous for: Sub hunters and anti-submarine (cloaker in eve) escorts.
Diek Ran	Posted - 2007.11.24 20:19:00 - [25] Originally by: Seteshi Personally, I'd like to see destroyers become the only ship able to detect cloakers. Make it so they can only get an inprecise fix, and give them a special launcher that deploys a sort of EMP depth charge that attempts to decloak their victim. This would pretty much give them the exact role they became famous for: Sub hunters and anti-submarine (cloaker in eve) escorts. nice
Zavernus Hamarabi Caldari High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.24 20:42:00 - [26] Edited by: Zavernus Hamarabi on 24/11/2007 20:42:47 I'm going to go ahead and call shenanigans on the 'but dessies are great for taking out t1 frigs and can snipe!' card. For one, why do you need a ship thats great at taking out t1 frigs, isn't every ship good at taking out t1 frigs? Even t1 frigs? Second, why would you want to snipe with a destroyer, thats kinda like trying to peel an onion with a wet newspaper. Thats not your one size fits all 'another ship can do it better' but rather pretty much any other ship could do it better. My opinion is the '120km cormorant' fits are more comedy fittings than actual effective kits. I still think destroyers themselves, or a magical new t2 destroyer should do what destroyers are meant to do, be lightly armored, go fast, hit something hard a few times, then take off. Perhaps its a bit silly to think you could do anything to capital ships with a t2 destroyer, but perhaps it'd be effective to battleships. Dictors as they stand are just movable warp bubbles, and the assault frigs are just expensive t1s as they stand, i'd like to see either a new t2 destroyer that's actually combat capable (ie not a paper airplane with an enormous sig radius) has t2 resist bonuses and a decent tank. More like a deimos over a thorax, not a radically different ship, just something a bit better. I think it'd be a good move on ccp's part to introduce a wider selection of mid class t2 ships instead of higher and higher skill requiring and more and more specialized. I mean, we're getting t2 cloakable battleships but still dont have good mid class t2 ships? Originally by: Nian Banks Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Nian Banks To be honest, a new tier2 destroyer would be great, perhaps a more tank style destroyer would be good, What we truly need however is a tech2 of the current tier1's that is a true upgrade of the current tier1's. With better resists, more fittings PG/CPU, more slots and an two new sweet bonuses. Sniping is fun. I'd really prefer ewar/gang bonus destroyers, personally. Liang One problem mate, destroyers main difference to frigates is that they have 7-8 high slots, if they were made ewar, their medium and low slots would have to be increased a fair bit, also their speed and agility would need a little buff, after that their highs would be reduced as they are ewar nor dps. Then you just have a frigate... Basically its pointlessly unneeded, not to mention we already have, One class of T1 Ewar Frigates, one class of T1 Ewar Cruisers, Two classes of t2 ewar frigates and two classes of t2 ewar cruisers. Personally I think thats enough Ewar for the moment ;) You're implying t1 ewar frigates are relevant :P "Aw crap a heron, primary heron!" Originally by: Payne Bringer ..flip teacup... wait for kettle to right teacup...gank kettle with the help of a hard hitting tr
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2007.11.24 21:05:00 - [27] Originally by: Seteshi Personally, I'd like to see destroyers become the only ship able to detect cloakers. Make it so they can only get an inprecise fix, and give them a special launcher that deploys a sort of EMP depth charge that attempts to decloak their victim. This would pretty much give them the exact role they became famous for: Sub hunters and anti-submarine (cloaker in eve) escorts. Sounds like a decent idea, but nearly impossible to balance. Either cloak-based ships (bombers, force recons, etc.) would be nerfed beyond belief, or the new destroyer would suck. Ideally, destroyers would be an escort ships for routine supply runs, but most industrials are so slow that a cruiser or HAC would fill the job better. In the case of a blockade runner, if one of those things gets caught, whatever did it probably won't be concerned about a t1 destroyer. I agree with the above poster, a ship who's job is to take out t1 frigs and maybe inties is not too useful.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.11.24 21:47:00 - [28] Originally by: Zavernus Hamarabi You're implying t1 ewar frigates are relevant :P "Aw crap a heron, primary heron!" The heron isn't an E-war frigate. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Ruciza	Posted - 2007.11.24 21:48:00 - [29] Originally by: Zavernus Hamarabi I'm going to go ahead and call shenanigans on the 'but dessies are great for taking out t1 frigs and can snipe!' card. For one, why do you need a ship thats great at taking out t1 frigs, isn't every ship good at taking out t1 frigs? Even t1 frigs? A destroyer is best at it, there's really nothing that compares against ceptors.
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2007.11.24 21:56:00 - [30] Originally by: Ruciza Originally by: Zavernus Hamarabi I'm going to go ahead and call shenanigans on the 'but dessies are great for taking out t1 frigs and can snipe!' card. For one, why do you need a ship thats great at taking out t1 frigs, isn't every ship good at taking out t1 frigs? Even t1 frigs? A destroyer is best at it, there's really nothing that compares against ceptors. Cerb w/ t2 precisions? Someone posted the exact figures yesterday, I think, and you gotta be going at some pretty crazy speeds to avoid taking serious damage from those.
Rudy Metallo G.H.O.S.T	Posted - 2007.11.24 22:05:00 - [31] Have you ever fit 150mm II Rails w/ Spike on a corm w/ 2 Sensor boosters and 2 Tracking Comps? You can sit out at like ~60km from a fight and just instapod people as they die. Great laugh. Sides that though it is pretty useless. --
Xanos Blackpaw Amarr The Firestorm Elite	Posted - 2007.11.24 22:30:00 - [32] Originally by: Exlegion Originally by: Bardolph Destroyers make most excellent salvaging ships. Garbage truck FTW I must quote this for truth actuly i'm thinking of upgrading to a hurricane...i find that i'm running out of cargospace on some of the bigger missions... Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi".
Kumas DeSauj Amarr The Azimuth	Posted - 2007.11.24 22:52:00 - [33] dessies are great garbage ships for up to L3 mishes. tbh, i've had more (simple) successes using a stabber as my L4 salvager. with cruiser 5 you can still have a faster sublight speed than a dessie while loaded with all cargo2's :) _________ [08:47:49] Kumas DeSauj > at the tone, kumas has performed another stupid maneuver. [08:47:58] Kumas DeSauj > BEEP! [08:48:05] Kumas DeSauj > BEEP! [08:48:11] Kumas DeSauj > *BEEP!

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