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Liv Forever	Posted - 2007.11.25 11:53:00 - [1] I recently ran a post on ISK buying and I was very interested in the varied, thoughtful responses addressing the topic. I have only been playing the game for 5 days and the reason that I have been able to devote so much time to trolling, researching and RL pursuits is that I started AFK indy mining. while I wouldn't buy ISK or macro mine, I don't have a problem with afk indy mining because : a) My in-game character is earning all the ISK in game b) If i was a real asteroid miner then I would not sit and stare at the asteroids while I mined. c) It is a pretty inefficient way to mine and more attentive miners can make considerably more Btw obviously everything I think of atm is old to most players but rookies like me are joining every day and prolly cbf reading 3 yr old post on these issues. Philosophy is essential to immmersion in MMOs and the underlying ethos of a group of players helps to define each persons role as much as in-game mechanics. I
0btuse	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:09:00 - [2] Edited by: 0btuse on 25/11/2007 12:08:55 Originally by: Liv Forever I recently ran a post on ISK buying and I was very interested in the varied, thoughtful responses addressing the topic. I have only been playing the game for 5 days and the reason that I have been able to devote so much time to trolling, researching and RL pursuits is that I started AFK indy mining. while I wouldn't buy ISK or macro mine, I don't have a problem with afk indy mining because : a) My in-game character is earning all the ISK in game b) If i was a real asteroid miner then I would not sit and stare at the asteroids while I mined. c) It is a pretty inefficient way to mine and more attentive miners can make considerably more Btw obviously everything I think of atm is old to most players but rookies like me are joining every day and prolly cbf reading 3 yr old post on these issues. Philosophy is essential to immmersion in MMOs and the underlying ethos of a group of players helps to define each persons role as much as in-game mechanics. I And the point is .......?
Liv Forever	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:15:00 - [3] Question : Is afk indy mining ethical?
Raul Rincon Caldari The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:21:00 - [4] There's no issue here, you can be AFK if you like. You should never do it , but you can nonetheless. I don't see where you're coming from?
Susan Acid Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:23:00 - [5] Originally by: Liv Forever Question : Is afk indy mining ethical? Why care about 'Ethics' in a Video Game?It's not against the EULA so it's not illegal. It's not like anyone could earn huge amounts of isk afk mining in an Industrial anyway.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:23:00 - [6] Someone needs to explain to him the difference between AFK mining and a macro miner Originally by: ISD Valorem The Devs have stated multiple times that they are looking at the Amarr issues. Weekly quote: "Villains always have antidotes... They're funny that way." ~The Tick
Viper G	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:29:00 - [7] if you can play a game without having to be there or if you can go afk for a certain amount of time, as the game does not need you at that moment, then sure, you can go do whatever you want. Let's say mining rates were 4x slower than they were now. Would you still sit and stare and wait for it to finish or maybe go read some websites or go eat dinner... If you can do it, then do it. Last time I checked there is nothing about the eula that says you have to actually sit in front of the computer and have your hands touching the keyboard/mouse... It's not like your "helping" by sitting there watching. Only thing you have to do is switch roids, or make sure cargo has room etc and watch for pirates/hostiles.
Al Thorr Caldari The Wheel	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:38:00 - [8] Is afk mining ethical? is not really the question. Is it logical - No. 1) you pay to play . yet at the first instance go and do something else . 2) In your first 5 days you earn enough to buy a 300k skill and a 300 -500k indy. then you basically stop playing. Definately illogical. Regards Al Thorr "You cant polish a turd" - The new rendered font is living proof.
Liv Forever	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:38:00 - [9] Yeah i've been doing it in 1.0 space so pirates aren't issue. i've noticed that sometimes roid finishes and i lose connection but meh-I'm afk neway. I've only been playing a few days but I figure that once I;m established i prolly won't bother with it neway cosn the isk i make will be negligible compared to my other sources of income. Oh and to the poster who said who cares bout ethics in computer games. I was on a counter strike server the other day with a person with speed and aim hax. Everyone left within 15 minutes. it matters even more in mmos considering the time investment.
Mira O'karr Minmatar Templars of Space	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:42:00 - [10] the new citizen q&a http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=channel&channelID=3509
Liv Forever	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:42:00 - [11] Originally by: Al Thorr Is afk mining ethical? is not really the question. Is it logical - No. 1) you pay to play . yet at the first instance go and do something else . 2) In your first 5 days you earn enough to buy a 300k skill and a 300 -500k indy. then you basically stop playing. Definately illogical. Regards Al Thorr Lol, I'm still playing but at this stage I am left with little choice. I'm levelling my learning skills for the next week because it would be 'illogical' not to. This means that I won't be able get a decent ship to do lvl 3+ missions. I need money cos i won't buy ISK ( cause i think it's unethical). I have RL work to do at home so it would be illogical for me not to have computer on and making isk while i work. So it seems logical to me. obviously I am not going to afk mine in an indy for the next 3 years. it is a short term solution to game and RL commitments
Caine Azuris Gallente Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:45:00 - [12] WTF!?!?!? stop creating multiple topics on the forums about the same thing. Refer to http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=643495 ------------
Mira O'karr Minmatar Templars of Space	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:48:00 - [13] suggest you delete this character and start over. with all your research you should have figured out by now that reputation is key in this game. as a forum **** you wont get far. oh wait, ...
Al Thorr Caldari The Wheel	Posted - 2007.11.25 12:55:00 - [14] Re lev 3 missions - How do you get the standings up to do them if you are afk mining.( In fact by not running those pesky lev 1 and lev 2 missions you are infact missing out on the implants that come with them ( occasionally)). Having isk in the wallet will not increase your standing to the corps to whom you would want to run the missions. so you in fact are standing still rather than progressing in the game ( imho) Eve is all about effort - the more you put in the more rewards you get out. Isk creation isnt everything. Good luck Al Thorr "You cant polish a turd" - The new rendered font is living proof.
Liv Forever	Posted - 2007.11.25 13:00:00 - [15] I have the implants and I am training learning because it is knocking aeons off my training time for skills-for instance just today I have knocked 16 hours off training cal frig 4 by training learning skills. If i had trained cal frig 4 1st that 16 hours wasted. The low lvl missions will be cake when i get a drake and just do all missions that i need for watever data cores i plan on researching> as i said i needed to do rl stuff too cos work is busy atm so nopthing lost because i couldnt have done the missions neway. Btw if ne of my in game plans make no sense pls let me know because i am noob and i can learn from ppls advice.
Armoured C Gallente Globaltech Industries Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.11.25 13:01:00 - [16] at the begining when i started i did this with my hauler that until i hit mining barges and exhumers now i am making real iskies iskes i sugest if you can do mission asa this can be a better income at the begining of the game with salvage loot and NPC to kill with bounties and work on your mining skills in the background as mining can be quite profitable when you get to better stages like exhumer and such
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.11.25 13:37:00 - [17] Who gives a **** what's ethical or what Liv Forever has a problem with? Provided it's not against the rules make your own mind up. If you want to make extra rules for yourself that only exist in your mind, feel free. It can make a game more fun. Just please don't feel the need to share them with anyone else. Repeat after me: There are no moral victories. There are no moral victories. There are no moral victories. EVE RELATED CONTENT
Locnar Caldari Amarr Internal Construction	Posted - 2007.11.25 14:21:00 - [18] CoughTROLLcough Sorry but it's true. Been playing 5 days huh... On second thought not sorry. Um if you just played the game instead of AFK mined you might learn the game mechanics or IDK... maybe earn more isk in-game. AFK mining is so close in comparison to macro mining it aint even funny. And for someone who's been playing 5 days you picked up quick on the idea of AFK Indi mining...
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.25 15:06:00 - [19] <Notify> Liv Forever you cannot post as you are brain scrambled Originally by: Tortun Nahme CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time
Bizz Lizz	Posted - 2007.11.25 16:25:00 - [20] Haven't seen someone caring about afk indy mining anymore since 2004, because: 1) back at that time an industrial full of ore was worth much more in relation to the income and wealth of the average player 2) barge mining and advanced skills didn't exist, most people were still mining in cruisers, except the few 'behated' strip mining corps in their battleships. 3) EVE has seen much worse things since then
Thunderguts Fusion Enterprises Ltd Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.11.25 22:57:00 - [21] Is it ethical to hire a Chinese college student to use my character to mine Plagiocase while I'm asleep? Not to re-sell, of course that's unethical, but what if it's just to make ISK for my own use, and if the few bucks I send him genuinely helps him with books, tuition, and girls?
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.25 23:28:00 - [22] CCP also condones STFU, some people need to give it a try! Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.11.26 00:08:00 - [23] Originally by: Susan Acid Originally by: Liv Forever Question : Is afk indy mining ethical? Why care about 'Ethics' in a Video Game?It's not against the EULA so it's not illegal. It's not like anyone could earn huge amounts of isk afk mining in an Industrial anyway. why care about it in real life if they don't catch you and it doesn't harm any one you know, it won't effect you, so why care? stupid really.... it is normal logic that even the biggest idiot should be able to understand.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.26 00:09:00 - [24] yes, because the virtual world is just as important and real as the real world Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Thunderguts Fusion Enterprises Ltd Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.11.26 08:28:00 - [25] Originally by: Thunderguts Trolling removed. Please stay on topic - Valorem Oh. I thought this was a troll thread. Sorry.
Liv Forever	Posted - 2007.11.26 08:40:00 - [26] Originally by: Locnar CoughTROLLcough Sorry but it's true. Been playing 5 days huh... On second thought not sorry. Um if you just played the game instead of AFK mined you might learn the game mechanics or IDK... maybe earn more isk in-game. AFK mining is so close in comparison to macro mining it aint even funny. And for someone who's been playing 5 days you picked up quick on the idea of AFK Indi mining... I learn the gam mechanics on the forum :) I don't believe AFK indy mining is close to macro mining because the make up of my ship in game and the in game mechanics allow for it. Neither allows for macro mining. One is part of the game and the other is not
Eternal Hatred Amarr Pantsu Garu Limited Technologies	Posted - 2007.11.26 10:19:00 - [27] As long as you don't sell ISK, anyway you can obtain is perfectly legal in my eyes and also in CCP's eyes. You PAY to PLAY and how you PLAY is your OWN DAMN MATTER! __________________________________________ I'm a well known whorum warriors alt and my lucky number is 232473. It's great being an Amarr
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.26 10:20:00 - [28] There are definitely risks and limitations to AFK Indy mining, and very little yield, so it seems like there should be absolutely no problem with it... --- Join BH-DL Skills
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.26 11:07:00 - [29] Edited by: Andrue on 26/11/2007 11:10:38 Originally by: Al Thorr Is afk mining ethical? is not really the question. Is it logical - No. 1) you pay to play . yet at the first instance go and do something else . 2) In your first 5 days you earn enough to buy a 300k skill and a 300 -500k indy. then you basically stop playing. Definately illogical. Regards Al Thorr It's perfectly logical. It allows you to earn Isk while doing something outside of the game. A player can start mining in their Indy then go out and do the weekly shop. By the time they get back they'll probably have a cargo hold full of ore. Obviously it's not a huge amount of Isk but it's more Isk than they'd have had if they didn't AFK mine. Assuming we're talking about hi-sec mining the only downside (to the player) is that their Isk/electricity ratio is low. OTOH PvPers generally have an appalling Isk/electricity ratio especially compared with Empire dwellers. As for impacting other players..nah. An AFK miner is using very few server resources. 'AFK' mining while staring at the screen or wandering around the house feeling bored is silly. AFK mining while using your time to do something else whether in- or out-of game is sensible. I only stopped doing it when the returns ceased to be of interest. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.26 11:30:00 - [30] Edited by: Setana Manoro on 26/11/2007 11:35:17 Originally by: Liv Forever I recently ran a post on ISK buying and I was very interested in the varied, thoughtful responses addressing the topic. I have only been playing the game for 5 days and the reason that I have been able to devote so much time to trolling, researching and RL pursuits is that I started AFK indy mining. while I wouldn't buy ISK or macro mine, I don't have a problem with afk indy mining because : a) My in-game character is earning all the ISK in game b) If i was a real asteroid miner then I would not sit and stare at the asteroids while I mined. c) It is a pretty inefficient way to mine and more attentive miners can make considerably more Btw obviously everything I think of atm is old to most players but rookies like me are joining every day and prolly cbf reading 3 yr old post on these issues. Philosophy is essential to immmersion in MMOs and the underlying ethos of a group of players helps to define each persons role as much as in-game mechanics. I How about you stop thinking about what is ethical and not in a game you have only played for 5 days, stop telling CCP what is and is not ethical in the game they have created and they are administrating, and just play the ***** game ? And if reply in the future with "community's responses were harsh and i decided to go back to wow/get over eve", then let me just say this now, get over your ***** self, at this point most of the ppl reading your threads would just like to see you gone. You have that wonderfull search function and yet you keep spamming threads with the "i've been playing for 5 days" defense. Playing EVE for just 5days is no defense against your decision not to use the Search Function, and find results like these. Rifter is not X-Wing CCP. Trinity model kinda sucks.
Tradari Gallente LUSH Industrys	Posted - 2007.11.26 12:04:00 - [31] although indy mining is slow it never the less gets you started on a ladder to success - well at least some isk in your wallet, but as a tip it would be better use to start with running the lvl 1,2 hauling missions to gain standings with a NPC corp, then you can reprocess you mined ore into more valuable minerials and make more money too. Also while running hauling missions you get to see more places when you first start and it's more fun than just sitting there with 1 laser on the go, and your skills still carry on building too working up to your first combat ship - The FRIG!! Never underestimate the Frig it can be deadly against soft targets. another option for that indy would be to fit it out for combat and tanking then got pinch so ore from cans and dock quick - faster than mining it etc etc, not that i approve this method but its never the less an option. Yours Tradari
Hungo Minmatar Nightfallz	Posted - 2007.11.26 12:12:00 - [32] Originally by: Liv Forever I'm full of crap, i joined eve and i want lots of attention so i become well known so then my insecurity problems will go away Seriously, no one cares who you are, what you've read or any crap of that kind. Your a waste of time so please for the love og all the gods within eve STOP POSTING
Liv Forever	Posted - 2007.11.26 12:45:00 - [33] Originally by: Hungo Originally by: Liv Forever I'm full of crap, i joined eve and i want lots of attention so i become well known so then my insecurity problems will go away Seriously, no one cares who you are, what you've read or any crap of that kind. Your a waste of time so please for the love og all the gods within eve STOP POSTING Lol apart from being an idiot and making misguided assumptions that are in themselves utter rubbish, I am sure that misquoting ppl by pretending to be them is libelous how ever funny you and ur high school buddies might think it is. You have joined the 20% of posters on these forums who have nothing intelligent to say and only write to put down others. QFT-noone is asking you to read or reply to these posts.
Liv Forever	Posted - 2007.11.26 12:47:00 - [34] Originally by: Tradari although indy mining is slow it never the less gets you started on a ladder to success - well at least some isk in your wallet, but as a tip it would be better use to start with running the lvl 1,2 hauling missions to gain standings with a NPC corp, then you can reprocess you mined ore into more valuable minerials and make more money too. Also while running hauling missions you get to see more places when you first start and it's more fun than just sitting there with 1 laser on the go, and your skills still carry on building too working up to your first combat ship - The FRIG!! Never underestimate the Frig it can be deadly against soft targets. another option for that indy would be to fit it out for combat and tanking then got pinch so ore from cans and dock quick - faster than mining it etc etc, not that i approve this method but its never the less an option. Yours Tradari Thanks for the advice Tradari-I was gonna start the mission when i got a drake but from what u and a few others have said it is better to start soon so i;ll get started on them.
Khaeldon	Posted - 2007.11.26 12:55:00 - [35] Hey, do you usually join a game and after 5 days of playing it start questioning it to people who have played it for 3-4 years? I suggest you grind some clue and get back and discuss the topics without stating your assumptions of how the game works as facts. And you'd have to be loaded to be able to finance your activities by isk buying alone, a billion is like 100 dollars last i checked and if someone is in fact doing that then hes only hurting himself doing it. People loose 200 dollars or more when their capital ship gets blown up, how many of the cap pilots do you think finances their activities with real money? This is only a problem for the people for whom 150m is a large amount of money, empire i'd say. And you have lots of learning to do when it comes to mining. First tip: ditch the industrial for mining
Hungo Minmatar Nightfallz	Posted - 2007.11.26 14:20:00 - [36] Originally by: Liv Forever Originally by: Hungo Originally by: Liv Forever I'm full of crap, i joined eve and i want lots of attention so i become well known so then my insecurity problems will go away Seriously, no one cares who you are, what you've read or any crap of that kind. Your a waste of time so please for the love og all the gods within eve STOP POSTING Lol apart from being an idiot and making misguided assumptions that are in themselves utter rubbish, I am sure that misquoting ppl by pretending to be them is libelous how ever funny you and ur high school buddies might think it is. You have joined the 20% of posters on these forums who have nothing intelligent to say and only write to put down others. QFT-noone is asking you to read or reply to these posts. First off, i guess your American so that explains half of your attitude and the need to be noticed i.e the center of attention. Your president is proof of that. Second off, i am 22, married with 2 children, i can assure you i do not have buddies, here the UK we speak PROPERLY and call them friends or companions. You have no clue about this game and you think you can question me? a beta player/65 million sp player. Grow up, you are simply a little overly clever boy who thinks his immature insecure needs will be met by constant attention on the forums.

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It's great being an Amarr