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Kaiser
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Posted - 2004.03.06 16:41:00 -
[1]
Good job CCP.
you weren't happy with making 95% of people playing in "empire space". now you also made all that space (0.1-1.0) safe.
I am not a pirate. never been. but this is a total non sense.
why don't you simply take out all weapons from the game? wouldn't this be easier?
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Durandal
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Posted - 2004.03.06 17:06:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Durandal on 06/03/2004 17:15:08
OK I now see some problems with it having read the RPing thread. But for the vast majority of players I would have thought that unless you are attacking a station, or convoy, or gate you wouldn't care what the sentry guns are doing (excluding careless splash damage). 0.1-0.4 is no safer this way than it was before, although that is not to say it isn't pretty safe already.
But I still think this is a smart pre-emptive move. With Shiva due in a few months, now is a good time to tweak the sentry guns so people get used to the range and potential impact they will have when attacking player structures. I mean, if you build a deployable structure and "protect" it with sentry guns (which you have mined for and built), are you going to be happy that anyone attacking them can take pot shots at almost 100km away, twice the range of your stationary sentry guns?
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!"
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Ki'ra Hrai
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Posted - 2004.03.06 17:10:00 -
[3]
Its about time Empire's protect their soverences.
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Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2004.03.06 17:15:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
Its about time Empire's protect their soverences.
Then just make it all 1.0
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Meau
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Posted - 2004.03.06 17:17:00 -
[5]
I have to agree to Durandal, sort of.
At first i thought, crap, another step into carebear land, but you have to consider 2 things:
- as was recently shown you can even shield tank concord forever (which is illegal in high sec), you can of course shield tank the sentry guns in 0.1-0.4 too, which is legal. Pirating in 0.1 to 0.4 is possible in every belt, and at a gate with a determined force.
its only lone gankers who lose big time with this change.
- player owned sentry guns will probably be weaker than empire ones, at least at the start. having stronger player owned ones would ridicule the empires. now if npc sentry guns have 55km range, player owned would be below that, making them totally useless.
As a conclusion, lone gankers lose, but this doesnt kill piracy in 0.1-0.4, and it is probably a neccesary move considering introduction of player owned sentry guns.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.03.06 17:21:00 -
[6]
Quote:
Edited by: Durandal on 06/03/2004 17:15:08
OK I now see some problems with it having read the RPing thread. But for the vast majority of players I would have thought that unless you are attacking a station, or convoy, or gate you wouldn't care what the sentry guns are doing (excluding careless splash damage). 0.1-0.4 is no safer this way than it was before, although that is not to say it isn't pretty safe already.
But I still think this is a smart pre-emptive move. With Shiva due in a few months, now is a good time to tweak the sentry guns so people get used to the range and potential impact they will have when attacking player structures. I mean, if you build a deployable structure and "protect" it with sentry guns (which you have mined for and built), are you going to be happy that anyone attacking them can take pot shots at almost 100km away, twice the range of your stationary sentry guns?
What rubbish. Do you think a player will get access to the sentry guns that Empire space has?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Durandal
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Posted - 2004.03.06 17:34:00 -
[7]
Quote:
Quote:
Edited by: Durandal on 06/03/2004 17:15:08
OK I now see some problems with it having read the RPing thread. But for the vast majority of players I would have thought that unless you are attacking a station, or convoy, or gate you wouldn't care what the sentry guns are doing (excluding careless splash damage). 0.1-0.4 is no safer this way than it was before, although that is not to say it isn't pretty safe already.
But I still think this is a smart pre-emptive move. With Shiva due in a few months, now is a good time to tweak the sentry guns so people get used to the range and potential impact they will have when attacking player structures. I mean, if you build a deployable structure and "protect" it with sentry guns (which you have mined for and built), are you going to be happy that anyone attacking them can take pot shots at almost 100km away, twice the range of your stationary sentry guns?
What rubbish. Do you think a player will get access to the sentry guns that Empire space has?
Jash, thats exactly my point, kinda. We will not get acces to the same guns, player built guns will probably less powerful and/or have less range than the empires, and rightly so. So it makes sense to increase the current range and consequently the eventual range of player built guns. Like I said before, if Empire guns=55km even if we were to get access to guns like this what would the point be? In the extreme circumstances we could build a control tower, surrond it with sentry guns, and CA could come along and shoot the tower without ever getting into the range of the guns.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!"
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.03.06 17:51:00 -
[8]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Edited by: Durandal on 06/03/2004 17:15:08
OK I now see some problems with it having read the RPing thread. But for the vast majority of players I would have thought that unless you are attacking a station, or convoy, or gate you wouldn't care what the sentry guns are doing (excluding careless splash damage). 0.1-0.4 is no safer this way than it was before, although that is not to say it isn't pretty safe already.
But I still think this is a smart pre-emptive move. With Shiva due in a few months, now is a good time to tweak the sentry guns so people get used to the range and potential impact they will have when attacking player structures. I mean, if you build a deployable structure and "protect" it with sentry guns (which you have mined for and built), are you going to be happy that anyone attacking them can take pot shots at almost 100km away, twice the range of your stationary sentry guns?
What rubbish. Do you think a player will get access to the sentry guns that Empire space has?
Jash, thats exactly my point, kinda. We will not get acces to the same guns, player built guns will probably less powerful and/or have less range than the empires, and rightly so. So it makes sense to increase the current range and consequently the eventual range of player built guns. Like I said before, if Empire guns=55km even if we were to get access to guns like this what would the point be? In the extreme circumstances we could build a control tower, surrond it with sentry guns, and CA could come along and shoot the tower without ever getting into the range of the guns.
No...it's utter rubbish and an attempt to rationalize stupidity. The sentry guns range wasn't changed so there'd be variation between player owned guns and npc guns. Everyone knows that.
Attempting to say that is utter tosh.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Durandal
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:02:00 -
[9]
Jash, its not rubbish. Think about it, if player owned guns have longer range than empire guns that is stupid. If player owned guns have a range equal to or less than empire guns (55km previously) there are totally useless as player weapon ranges far exceed this.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!"
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:06:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Jash Illian on 06/03/2004 18:07:43
Quote:
Jash, its not rubbish. Think about it, if player owned guns have longer range than empire guns that is stupid. If player owned guns have a range equal to or less than empire guns (55km previously) there are totally useless as player weapon ranges far exceed this.
No, Durandal, it's utter tripe that you're attempting to use to spin a poorly thought out change on CCP's part.
Quote:
...
Sentry gun range is now up to 150 kilometers in response to ever more aggressive tactics favoured by outlaws in Empire space.
I seriously don't know who you expected to believe that rubbish. 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Kiana'tre
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:06:00 -
[11]
This has killed any sort of non-war related PvP in empire............ Just so you guys know.......... Hope you guys are happy with this stupidness....... Once you have all mined 11 billion ............ what next......... you cannot fight pirates cause we will no longer exist..... wtf
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Dekar
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:10:00 -
[12]
Seriously, what IS your problem? What about the elimination of gate campers by increasing the ranges you don't like?
All I see is a bunch of people crying so far, none with something constructive.
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Lying Scumbag |
Durandal
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:11:00 -
[13]
OK Jash I agree with you. CCP never meant it to be a tweak for player owned sentry guns. However you could at least give me the fact that it addresses this problem ahead of time, even if CCP hadn't meant it to. I don't want to "convince" people that CCP has made a good point, but I was trying to show that the change is not all bad
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!"
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Dark Big
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:25:00 -
[14]
Think about this. large corps are now siting in 0.5 and up strip mining the fields. It has been a long time sence i have been in 0.5 and up but i am seing a lote of the belts striped and i am thinking how are the newbes geting by. i was looking for some iso becouse it is kinda rare where we are at and i could not find much omber or any kern worth a crap. I think what ccp is trying to do is pull some of the players down to 0.1-0.4 . to try to thin out the mining some so that avery one has good ore to mine. As for you the pirets well i can see you hunting players in 0.1-0.4. if you are a newbe piret but to really test you skills get out here to 0.0 and camp some gates. I really don't know why i am telling you this i am a miner but it is yall that make this game fun.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:25:00 -
[15]
And we all thought 1400mm's had outrageous range 
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Kaiser
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:28:00 -
[16]
95% of people stay in empire.
only places to pick a fight (without wasting days to spot a miner) is gates.
if this game has a problem, the problem is that there are too few places to fight.
now, with sentry with 150km range in anything >0.0 means pirates will leave totally empire.
i am not a pirate, but i like to fight them. if they disappear, i get none to fight.
Empire was already pretty safe as it was. in <0.4 there aren't noobs, so really what is the problem?
if ccp really wants to make this game a mining simulator, hell, just take out the weapons. it's easier.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:44:00 -
[17]
Quote:
Seriously, what IS your problem? What about the elimination of gate campers by increasing the ranges you don't like?
All I see is a bunch of people crying so far, none with something constructive.
I have 2 cubic meters of blueprints. That's how much space they take up in a container in my hangar. This is not to brag about my possessions but to make clear just how many blueprints I own.
To make the best use of those blueprints pretty much banishes me to empire space. Outside empire space, there aren't enough labs to research my blueprints. There aren't enough factories to manufacture from my blueprints. Hell, there aren't enough people mining veldspar, scordite and other low end ores needed to manufacture from my blueprints. They're all mining more valuable ores. There aren't enough customers to buy anything I manufacture from my blueprints to make manufacturing outside empire space worth the trouble.
My money comes from the market and the people inside empire space. A couple key minerals required to manufacture are refined from ores found only outside empire space. That does not change the location of the demand for the manufactured items. That does not change the fact that the bulk of the minerals used to manufacture can be found inside empire space. It does not change the fact that the only things outside empire space that weren't covered in the tutorial on day 1 are only profitable where the majority of the population is: empire space. Mining and shooting npcs were covered in the tutorial.
I do not mine. I CANNOT mine the ores necessary to sustain large scale manufacturing. If I had a large corporation, I'd consider mining the ores ourselves to sustain manufacturing a phenomenal waste of manpower. TTi did not mine the majority of the ores they needed to sustain manufacturing. Techell CANNOT mine the ores necessary to sustain manufacturing. And to be completely honest, the NPC AI controlling the pirate drones in the belts is so pitiful it reaches the level of boredom found in mining in short order. That's why it's called "Rat Farming".
So if I actually want to use the grey matter between my ears to get ahead in the game, I have to be bored to death by the stupifying safety of empire space. I travel into low sec areas all the time. I know the risk and accept it fully to get what I want when I want it. The PC rats represent the ONLY risk to my existance in this game.
This change to sentry guns removes a significant portion of the risk found during my travels. It does not matter whether or not someone finds their tactic of sniping to be "lame" or "legit". It was the only thing standing between flying through low sec space completely AFK 100% of the time. This change to the sentry guns shows a complete lack of understanding behind some of the fundamentals of this game on CCP's part.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Dekar
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Posted - 2004.03.06 18:56:00 -
[18]
And here I was, almost wondering what you were going to slap me back with, what a letdown.
I can't believe you just wrote 6 paragraphs that basically said "the new change allows me to fly through gates/low sec areas AFK".
Come on dude, so you lost the adreline shot you got from occasionally stumbling into an area with gate campers.
This change will indeed let people like you down, but it's going to push up the need to war sooner.
I'd say that's a sacrifice worth taking.
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Lying Scumbag |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.03.06 19:01:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Jash Illian on 06/03/2004 19:08:54
Quote:
And here I was, almost wondering what you were going to slap me back with, what a letdown.
I can't believe you just wrote 6 paragraphs that basically said "the new change allows me to fly through gates/low sec areas AFK".
Come on dude, so you lost the adreline shot you got from occasionally stumbling into an area with gate campers.
This change will indeed let people like you down, but it's going to push up the need to war sooner.
I'd say that's a sacrifice worth taking.
Sell it to a n00b cause I ain't buying. Corporations are breaking up because Jericho Fraction, of all corporations, declare war on them .
Actually let me explain further. I have no need to go to non-empire space, as do most people that use isk to make more isk. In fact doing so hampers my ability to make isk. Most people will whine on these forums and send in mass petitions before using the war option to do anything.
So I fear another corporation declaring war on me about as much as I fear a toddler armed with a spork.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Dekar
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Posted - 2004.03.06 19:42:00 -
[20]
You're such a pessimist. Anyway, the odds of war coming closer to your doorsteps is bigger with than without the change. And since the only letdown is that people like you can't get their adreline shot in insecure areas near gates is not going to convince me (or anyone with a brain) that it's a stupid idea.
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Lying Scumbag |
Panzer
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Posted - 2004.03.06 20:01:00 -
[21]
I would have to agree with Jash. CCP is destroying combat in the game. Its just too safe now, and boring. It was better in beta where pirates could roam lower security areas in empire space and even 1.0. You always had to watch where your going even in empire space. Now you just go to 0.0 where all the big alliances fight with Battleships and .1 or greater where its carebear land, almost completly safe. It makes it hard for noobs or average players to get any decent pvp fighting. You go out in 0.0 space you get royally screwed by the alliances, you fight in .1 space or greater and you get killed by centuries or concord. This is indirectly nerfing frigates and cruisers more.
The game would be a lot more fun if the frenges of empire space were actually unsafe like in early release or beta.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.03.06 20:05:00 -
[22]
"You're such a pessimist. Anyway, the odds of war coming closer to your doorsteps is bigger with than without the change."
... War with whom? And over what..?
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Sassinak
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Posted - 2004.03.06 20:11:00 -
[23]
what a ******* **** idea
tossers
Sass
Arcane Technologies |
McWatt
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Posted - 2004.03.06 20:21:00 -
[24]
Quote:
You're such a pessimist. Anyway, the odds of war coming closer to your doorsteps is bigger with than without the change. And since the only letdown is that people like you can't get their adreline shot in insecure areas near gates is not going to convince me (or anyone with a brain) that it's a stupid idea.
and you are too much of an optimist. and these are, by defintion, most often ppl who don t have all information:
war is going to be seriously nerfed soon.
empire will be safe as sex with a condom is. this sucks!
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Carfax
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Posted - 2004.03.06 21:30:00 -
[25]
Is it definitely a long term mod or just a short term solution while they modify concord AI and such like things to deal with various situations such as the Yulai incident ?
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All Your Megabytes are belong to eve :(
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Dekar
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Posted - 2004.03.06 23:25:00 -
[26]
Quote:
"You're such a pessimist. Anyway, the odds of war coming closer to your doorsteps is bigger with than without the change."
... War with whom? And over what..?
Money? Power? Territory? Who knows?
Quote:
war is going to be seriously nerfed soon.
Says who? Like how?
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Lying Scumbag |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.03.06 23:40:00 -
[27]
Century gun range should be on a sliding scale. 150km for 1.0-.8, 100km for .7-.5 and 60km (or less) anywhere else.
I hate being podded as much as the next guy but if you take the excitement out of the game all the sudden you are playing "The Sims: Sci-Fi Edition".
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
banrocc
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Posted - 2004.03.07 00:41:00 -
[28]
What a Stupid idea...Take away the on ellement that made the game fun....The players who do mine in .4 and below have always run to stations the moment they see pirates in local Even with the new sentry ranges the players in low sec belts will still will run to stations the moment they see pirates in local...How is this an imrovement???..
You say about player owned sentrys...who the hell will be able to build these stations and sentry guns...The boring carebears who mine in .5 and above thats all...they have and will never venture further out....Improvement its not.. boring it is.....check the map out CCP see how many players are in .4 and above compaired to .4 and below...they still stay in safe bloody space..just aswell make it a carebear game for 4 year olds...utter C**P 
Suggest a change of thinking before the players who add some ellement of fun into the game all say goodbye to it cause we cant stay awake!!!
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.03.07 01:00:00 -
[29]
>>> ... War with whom? And over what..?
"Money? Power? Territory? Who knows?"
Precisely, "who knows". If the argument "you'll have war instead" can't be backed up in any reasonable manner, i see no reason to consider it valid alternative. Sorry.
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IMACAREBEAR
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Posted - 2004.03.07 04:17:00 -
[30]
Thank you CCP for making it safer for me. Besides who needs bloodshed. In time peace and prosperity shall prevail in the wonderful world of eve.
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