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Doctor Angry
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Posted - 2004.03.07 04:32:00 -
[31]
Eh?
Sorry, but the whole idea seems to have been missed a smidge. Empire Space....specifically 1.0 sec systems are High Security. Security being the operative word. These systems, such as the main Highway systems, or the home world systems are SUPPOSED to be difficult to pirate in, if not impossible. It's like drawing an automatic weapon in a police station. You can expect pain.
Why should you be able to sit 75k from a gate and gank people in a system that's supposed to be heavily protected? Quite simply, you shouldn't.
0.4 Downwards, aye, gank all you want, but when you get up in the sec rating, it should be more and more difficult. The Highway gates SHOULD be protected heavily. However, a possible graduation of the gate sentries would make a bit of sense, getting a shorter range as you go down into lower sec. Reason for that could simply be that the empires can't afford to install the super new sentries that protect the core systems.
Look at it from a flip side. What if a Player run corp is able to "own" a system, meaning that anything in it actually BELONGS to them. They're going to want to protect it, assuming that it cost a lot to acquire in the first place. Damn straight your gonna want good sentries to stop any old preson getting in and blockading your gates.
I still don't see how sitting 75k from a gate, just out of the range of the sentries, pumping shields, and ganking smaller ships can even be CLASSED as PvP. PvP is where folk go and actually FIGHT somewhere against each other, not where one combatant can kill the others with impunity. I dunno, maybe I'm expecting people to fight with honour and actually stand face to face with someone as a test of their abilities......maybe that's summat that's not PC in EVE.
On another note, why shouldn't people play in high sec? Some people like to play differently than others, what's so wrong with that? Just because someone chooses to run agent missions in high sec to get items for their manufacturing, or to gain standing so they can refine cheaper, or many many other reasons, they are automatically "carebears" and a lower class of gamer? Nah, sorry, it takes all sorts to make the world continue on a daily basis, and it will take all sorts to make EVE run on a daily basis. The EVE gameworld cannot exist properly with only "carebears" and it cannot exist properly with only "Pirates".
You take out all the PvP and you have, as some people have alluded to, The Sims. Take out all the safety in High Security Systems, and make Piracy easy everywhere with no risk, and you have Counterstrike.
All in all, I like the 150km range in HIGH sec systems, but not in LOW sec. Graduate the sentries instead of blanket extending.
Doctor Angry
BSC CEO
Campbells Condensed : A small double strength fart which, when combined with air, can produce enough to feed a whole room |
Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2004.03.07 04:53:00 -
[32]
 Quote:
I still don't see how sitting 75k from a gate, just out of the range of the sentries, pumping shields, and ganking smaller ships can even be CLASSED as PvP.
Its never been classed as pvp, its pirating, and was made that way by ccp with the introduction of the guns in the first place.
If I had a time machine, I would go back and kill the first carebear, cause this is all his fault
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Doctor Angry
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Posted - 2004.03.07 05:20:00 -
[33]
Aye, ok, fair enough Pirating then 
That's partly my point though. You shouldn't be able to Pirate in the higher sec systems....definitely not 1.0 anyway. 0.4 and below, yes. 0.7 to 0.5 yes, but your gonna find it slightly more difficult.
As I said, 1.0 is the highest security you can have in EVE, and that SHOULD mean that any messing about in those systems is going to get you some pain from the police. You wouldn't draw a gun infront of a Police Officer, so why should you be able to do similar in a 1.0 sec system?
Doctor Angry
BSC CEO
Campbells Condensed : A small double strength fart which, when combined with air, can produce enough to feed a whole room |
Thano
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Posted - 2004.03.07 06:27:00 -
[34]
wow guys why dont you start thinking about ways to take the fight AWAY from gates?? i mean cmon the tools are out there they may not be as commen as we all would have hoped but im sure they will become more commen in the near future all you people have to think of is how to use them properly......
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.03.07 06:30:00 -
[35]
Quote:
Eh?
Sorry, but the whole idea seems to have been missed a smidge. Empire Space....specifically 1.0 sec systems are High Security. Security being the operative word. These systems, such as the main Highway systems, or the home world systems are SUPPOSED to be difficult to pirate in, if not impossible. It's like drawing an automatic weapon in a police station. You can expect pain.
Why should you be able to sit 75k from a gate and gank people in a system that's supposed to be heavily protected? Quite simply, you shouldn't.
0.4 Downwards, aye, gank all you want, but when you get up in the sec rating, it should be more and more difficult. The Highway gates SHOULD be protected heavily. However, a possible graduation of the gate sentries would make a bit of sense, getting a shorter range as you go down into lower sec. Reason for that could simply be that the empires can't afford to install the super new sentries that protect the core systems.
FOR THE LAST TIME THIS CHANGE WAS TO ALL SENTRY GUNS
Changing the range on the sentry guns has 0 effect on space .5 and above.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Thano
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Posted - 2004.03.07 06:46:00 -
[36]
Quote:
FOR THE LAST TIME THIS CHANGE WAS TO ALL SENTRY GUNS
Changing the range on the sentry guns has 0 effect on space .5 and above.
exactly and just the same it has no effect on .4 and below because like you said in an earlyer post you can rig your typhoon to hit someone from the middle of last tuesday.. so in conclusion i realy see no marrit in your argument this change realy doesnt efect anyone other than ppl who like to pop NPC convoys and dim witted pirates
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.03.07 06:57:00 -
[37]
"this change realy doesnt efect anyone other than ppl who like to pop NPC convoys and dim witted pirates"
Whoa, someone else got it, too. ^.^
'Tis the most disturbing part of the whole deal, tbh. That such pointless change was introduced without informing the players, without understanding it won't change anything for the 'better' about what it's aimed at, and without thought how it's going to affect optional activites like convoy hunting... well, it's plain worrying. :/
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.03.07 07:13:00 -
[38]
Quote:
Quote:
FOR THE LAST TIME THIS CHANGE WAS TO ALL SENTRY GUNS
Changing the range on the sentry guns has 0 effect on space .5 and above.
exactly and just the same it has no effect on .4 and below because like you said in an earlyer post you can rig your typhoon to hit someone from the middle of last tuesday.. so in conclusion i realy see no marrit in your argument this change realy doesnt efect anyone other than ppl who like to pop NPC convoys and dim witted pirates
Yes I can rig my Typhoon to hit you from 250km+ easily. With help from a few friends, I can prolly hit you from 500km+. That's not my concern as I don't try to hit people from those ranges.
My problem is that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER IS IT POSSIBLE FOR ME TO GET TO ANYONE FROM THOSE RANGES.
I fly a short range setup. It was living holy hell for me as the target to turn the tables on the camper and counter attack. It involved a lot of warping in and out hoping whoever was camping would be lulled into a sense of security at seeing a single ship and remain. It involved getting to an acceptable range, usually around 30km or so, and burning a large amount of cap running a microwarp drive that reduced my shield capacity, my capacitor capacity and my cap recharge rate to reach warp scramble range.
If someone decides to take up shooting from the middle of last week what was extremely hard is now impossible. Comprende?
CCP's changes now turn the game into one of two for me:
1) Complete and utter boredom since few people can shoot me
2) Complete eunuch being in well armed battleship that cannot get anywhere near the person shooting at me to keep them there
And sentry gun tanking? Just raises the amount of manpower required to run a blockade which in turn makes counterattack require more firepower to repel them.
If you can't keep up, I suggest you read slower
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Aldelphius
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Posted - 2004.03.07 07:27:00 -
[39]
oh no, sentries can hit me, pvp is dead. blah blah blah, all **** and vinegar. Now all you cant to in low empire is sit at gates and "pvp" passerbys. This dose not affecet pvp at all, it dose harm pirating in a big way. With corp wars coming SoonTM, pvp will hopefully become more rampant in empire. Its allways a rush twhen i see the little flashing box that another pilot has a <-5 standing with our corp.
Yea gate gankers were rough, but you learn to be fast, or go the long way around (click the box "stay out of pod kill")
only thing that was really bad about them was that usually its too hard to get enough people togther to take them on and chase them out. now that would be fun. jump in with 10-15 bs in a .4 camped system.
hopefully ccp will lower the guns down to at most 100km in less than .5 systems. a bs can still have optimal over 100km, so it wouldent be impossible to do.
And the playground known as 0.0 hasent changed, and hopefully never will.
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Thano
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Posted - 2004.03.07 07:28:00 -
[40]
Quote:
Quote:
Seriously, what IS your problem? What about the elimination of gate campers by increasing the ranges you don't like?
All I see is a bunch of people crying so far, none with something constructive.
This change to sentry guns removes a significant portion of the risk found during my travels. It does not matter whether or not someone finds their tactic of sniping to be "lame" or "legit". It was the only thing standing between flying through low sec space completely AFK 100% of the time. This change to the sentry guns shows a complete lack of understanding behind some of the fundamentals of this game on CCP's part.
hmm i see your point Jash but if you will read your very own words above you will see that your most current argument is the complete oposite to what you had lead me and many others to beleive was your initial problem with the change.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.03.07 07:49:00 -
[41]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Seriously, what IS your problem? What about the elimination of gate campers by increasing the ranges you don't like?
All I see is a bunch of people crying so far, none with something constructive.
This change to sentry guns removes a significant portion of the risk found during my travels. It does not matter whether or not someone finds their tactic of sniping to be "lame" or "legit". It was the only thing standing between flying through low sec space completely AFK 100% of the time. This change to the sentry guns shows a complete lack of understanding behind some of the fundamentals of this game on CCP's part.
hmm i see your point Jash but if you will read your very own words above you will see that your most current argument is the complete oposite to what you had lead me and many others to beleive was your initial problem with the change.
Maybe you can explain because people are famous for swearing that I contradict myself, when invariably they really need to read slower.
Is it the fact that I actually tend to do something about people that shoot at me that you find contradictory? Mayhap from a furry perspective.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2004.03.07 07:52:00 -
[42]
Too much arguing, can't be bothered.
Any sign of the special ops ships coming in yet? They'd kill the problem, you can go find people in safespots instead of waiting for them to come to the gate.
They'd REALLY kill the problem if they came with cloaking abilities that stopped your name showing up in local 
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Chaz Pounder
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Posted - 2004.03.07 08:21:00 -
[43]
Quote:
Good job CCP.
you weren't happy with making 95% of people playing in "empire space". now you also made all that space (0.1-1.0) safe.
I am not a pirate. never been. but this is a total non sense.
why don't you simply take out all weapons from the game? wouldn't this be easier?
finally a guy who gets it .. lets call the game "sim eve"  
hint -The "evil doers" is under threat of extermination in EVE- Call international HOT-LINE 555-ccpdontreallycareaslongasthaygettheremonthlypayche |
bUBbLeS
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Posted - 2004.03.07 09:27:00 -
[44]
Well it seems CCP have made the whole of 0.1-1.0 space care bear land with the new 150km range on sentry guns
i can understand why.... but its a little heavy handed
i allways thought 0.1-0.4 was risky... and should have PC pirates in (there are NPC ones after all...at GATES!)
so
how about this
gate guns in higher sec space have a longer range and do more damage
key this in with exponential concorde ship response.. and weight the timings and type of ship to system sec status
and CCP acomplish what they want...
no one can gank in .5 and above
but the PC rats can try to gank people in 0.1-0.4
for example
sec | gun | damage
space|range | shot
1.0 250km 400
0.9 200km 350
0.8 150km 300
0.7 125km 250
0.6 100km 200
0.5 75km 175
0.4 60km 150
0.3 40km 125
0.2 30km 100
0.1 20km 50
what does everyone think?
Julius ceaser : "operor vos volo MCCCXXXVII laganum bUBbLeS?"
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Durandal
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Posted - 2004.03.07 10:17:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Durandal on 07/03/2004 10:19:03
I think a sliding scale is probably the only way to address these problems and keep the majority (although probably not everybody) happy.
From an RP point of view it also makes sense. Although 0.1-0.4 is still owned by an empire, the have little interests there reflected by the lower Concord (or non-existent) presence. Therefore, the sentry guns would most likely be provided by the corps to protect their assets, namely stations and gates, and so wouldn't have the power or range of empire guns. This way there is still a security element, but an identifiable difference in safety between 1.0-0.5 and 0.4-0.1 and then finally 0.0.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!"
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Thano
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Posted - 2004.03.07 10:32:00 -
[46]
Quote:
Maybe you can explain because people are famous for swearing that I contradict myself, when invariably they really need to read slower.
Is it the fact that I actually tend to do something about people that shoot at me that you find contradictory? Mayhap from a furry perspective.
in your enitial explenation of the problem you had with the changes you made it clear that you thought it was now TO safe in empire space and that it was boreing for it to be a place of fluffy white clouds and id tend to agree complete safety is rather dull. Later you come to say that No empire space safety is not raised at all and that your problem is now the fact that PKs who are intent on stairing at gates are now forced to stair at smaller looking gates and that makes it alot harder to retaliat unless ofcourse you actualy go out riged to retaliat but thats your choice to do or not.
But to get back on topic the only thing i can see that this change actualy changes is it should help to Push combat away from the gates in empire space like the intriduction of gate guns in 0.4 - 0.1 should have done.
oh and jash if people are famous like you say for swearing that you contradict yourself maybe you should stop assumeing the person reading your posts has flawed reading skills and maybe take alook at what your wrighting..
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banrocc
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Posted - 2004.03.07 11:14:00 -
[47]
Still wont get the carebears out of safe space they will still sit there in ther bs and mine the hell out of 1.0 systems....Surely you all play online games for the challenge of competing..If not why dont you just play single player sim? Get a backbone and explore and have a fight.....
I read a post before about adjust your game style to reflect the change HOW please tell me....We hunt belts they warp soon as they see us in local..We now cant gate (Well we can but not to any affect)....So wheres the thrill the danger the chance....Suppose Carebear Collective Protection want us all just to sit there rock hugging thinking aww thats pretty...
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Doctor Angry
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Posted - 2004.03.07 11:36:00 -
[48]
Quote:
FOR THE LAST TIME THIS CHANGE WAS TO ALL SENTRY GUNS
Changing the range on the sentry guns has 0 effect on space .5 and above.
Do as you said and go back and read my post Jash. Seeing as you like to have an opinion on absolutely everything.......
Re-read the parts where I said gate guns need to be graduated. That would indicate that I already KNOW that the gate guns have all been upgraded right through the entire gate system. This time however, you seem to have ignored the reason for the post. You should NOT be able to pirate in a 1.0 sec system.......
You're not SUPPOSED to be able to kill people in these areas, youre not supposed to go hunting convoys in those areas. They are meant to be well policed and protected. In keeping with any game concept or any tenuous link with any kind of reality, ANY empire would protect it's home/core systems to the best of it's ability and would come down HARD on any pirate in the area.
To be perfectly frank, anyone with a Wanted tag, or anyone with a sec status of less than -5.0 shouldn't even be able to enter these areas without getting chased all the way through it by Concord.
Also, who cares if the "Carebears" want to stay in 1.0 sec systems so they can avoid being pirated? The have a right to play how they like, and if they want to avoid the excitement of running through a blockaded system then that's totally up to them, and they dont deserve to have critiscism for the way they choose to play the game. This game is supposed to allow multiple styles of play.
Zombie used to camp the gates in the Pashanai system every night, spceifically the Mamtrid gate ganking anyone that came nearby. As did some other folk in Orvolle. Now they're both 0.4 sec (I think) and that's fine, but why should you be allowed to so the same in 1.0? Where's the sense in that?
Not everyone wants to make their money by murdering other players. Some people find that distasteful. And on another point, maybe the miners run when a pirate enters the system as they're armed with the exceedingly dangerous mining laser? Kind of tough to even fight back with a Miner II. Then again, I can see why Pirates moan about that......they dont like targets that can fight back after all.
Doctor Angry
BSC CEO
Campbells Condensed : A small double strength fart which, when combined with air, can produce enough to feed a whole room |
Thano
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Posted - 2004.03.07 11:39:00 -
[49]
banrocc
your right there isnt many ways to get the players out of empire space thats were most of the comerce takes place thats were the supply and demand for most things is. as soon as CCP can figure out a way to get players to get out into the lower security space the better i say, but at the moment there realy isnt much reward out there to justify the risk of running into a PK gank squad. hence why you dont see much action out there other than alliance wars and large pirate cartels going after said alliances.
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banrocc
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Posted - 2004.03.07 11:51:00 -
[50]
I agree 1.0 to .5 should be safe.. surely to just increase the strengh and numbers of the Carebear Collective Protection ships would do.....
Not many players use to venture far out anyway and they still wont....Just check the map out for pilots in space 75% or more of players online are in .5 and above...
They arnt just noob players these are big corps and single players with bs rapping the belts in safe systems..I say reduce the ore in these systems and make them venture out into deeper space at least then your making the game a challenge...
You think we dont mine in 0.0 with other pirate corps hunting us? We defend ourselves so why cant you lot???
Nope you all choose to stay in safe space with the excuse you get gate ganked if you venture out..How you think we travel around we go thru the same systems as you and face the same dangers..
Just we use our brains a bit
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Doctor Angry
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Posted - 2004.03.07 12:04:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Doctor Angry on 07/03/2004 12:07:49
These people dont defend themselves as they are in high sec and shouldn't have to really. Also, dont get me mixed up with people who mine in safe zones.....I dont mine at all, and any agent work I've been doing recently has all been in low sec as well.
And, yes, I use the map system, and local, and I set-up for speed and pay attention to where I'm going......the moment I dont? Splat. Fair enough....my stupid fault for not paying attention, but in all honesty, I shouldn't have to watch my back in a 1.0 system.....that's what the police, and the sentries etc are supposed to be there for.
And in actual fact, my corp does mine in zero sec. If you dont protect yourself from PC pirates you're dead out there.....as it should be. Mind you, if you dont protect yourself out there, the NPC's will splat you too :) Simple fact here, the profit in building is to get your own mega and zyd.....you buy in the low end stuff. Where's the mega and zyd? Out in the hinterlands where the pirates and alliances live.
Doctor Angry
BSC CEO
Campbells Condensed : A small double strength fart which, when combined with air, can produce enough to feed a whole room |
Thano
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Posted - 2004.03.07 12:09:00 -
[52]
Quote:
I agree 1.0 to .5 should be safe.. surely to just increase the strengh and numbers of the Carebear Collective Protection ships would do.....
Not many players use to venture far out anyway and they still wont....Just check the map out for pilots in space 75% or more of players online are in .5 and above...
They arnt just noob players these are big corps and single players with bs rapping the belts in safe systems..I say reduce the ore in these systems and make them venture out into deeper space at least then your making the game a challenge...
but realy what exactly is your problem with the issue? they arnt hurting you in any way are they? you odviously dont care about the fact that the established players are hurting the newbs..
Quote:
You think we dont mine in 0.0 with other pirate corps hunting us? We defend ourselves so why cant you lot???
Nope you all choose to stay in safe space with the excuse you get gate ganked if you venture out..How you think we travel around we go thru the same systems as you and face the same dangers..
Just we use our brains a bit
Lol i love how your lumping me into that group when you know nothing about me and what i do ingame. when in fact i DO venture out into 0.0 space on a regular basis and do damn near everything there is to do out there except we usualy arnt the ones being hunted i wasnt speaking for myself when i said the risk is greater than the reward out in 0.0 you know.
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Xavier Arron
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Posted - 2004.03.07 12:44:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Xavier Arron on 07/03/2004 12:48:24
lol @ Gank-ster Carebears.
Boo hoo - ItÆs not fair that I canÆt sit at gates and pod haulers and noobs with my BS.
lol - then have cheek to say that pvp is now dead!!!
So now you will actually have to find / hunt people in a system:)
IÆm sure that if you want "challenging" PVP that you can go into 0.0. Peeps whining that oh it takes too long to find people in 0.0.
Bah - its not like you donÆt have an uber powerful map that displays the location of everyone in eve is it?
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Voss Matsu
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Posted - 2004.03.07 13:00:00 -
[54]
Quote:
I have to be bored to death by the stupifying safety of empire space.
Quote:
Yes I can rig my Typhoon to hit you from 250km+ easily.
What if someone else can also rig their Typhoon so that it's range is greater than that of the sentry guns. I believe that is Thanos point, you say empire is now too safe then you state you can shoot farther than the new sentry range.
Anyway, hopefully CCP are gearing up to move combat away from gates with increasing the range of the sentrys, so that only very skilled pirates will pose a viable threat at gates. Maybe even the specialized tracking ships might make an appearence soon.
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porkmaster
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Posted - 2004.03.07 13:59:00 -
[55]
easy to sort this realy
1.0 to 0.5 safe.for noobs and safe mining
0.4 to 0.1 old gun settings. bit risky but good for ore and new pirates
0.0 total free for all, no gate guns. for the better players , big profit and big problems
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SawedOffShot
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Posted - 2004.03.07 15:34:00 -
[56]
Ok why don't you guys just use the new deployable warp tech. Put that in the path of there warp outa the guns range and bam they stuk there and ya can beat the hell ota them.
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banrocc
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Posted - 2004.03.07 15:50:00 -
[57]
Edited by: banrocc on 07/03/2004 15:51:44
My posts are not aimmed at individual players... but CCP have done this in the past played with the cotent of the game and players left EVE for lack of it...The game was getting good and wow what a supprise they reduce the content again they should pull there thumbs out of there asses and realise all this will do is make players leave the game...
I Have said i agree that 1.0 to .5 should be secure but the rest you have a risk ellement to it...
What is left in EVE now??
1...Missions that would struggle to entertain a 6 year old
2...Minning suppose i could join the carebears...Yawns...
3...Wars... now thats a laugh
4...????
Oh forgot killing npc rats boring at best...
Content is the main thing in any online game something that EVE is again lacking in a best of times ...
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Thano
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Posted - 2004.03.07 22:34:00 -
[58]
Quote:
Ok why don't you guys just use the new deployable warp tech. Put that in the path of there warp outa the guns range and bam they stuk there and ya can beat the hell ota them.
Finaly someone useing their brains, now that warp paths are fairly pradictable thanks to gate to gate jumping any pirate smart enouph to use the deployable warp dissruptors properly will pose a greater threat than ever before, ofcourse they have to get their hands on one first thow
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Temujin Destovai
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Posted - 2004.03.07 23:10:00 -
[59]
blame us
The Chronicles of Xanadu |
Wrangler
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Posted - 2004.03.07 23:14:00 -
[60]
We shouldn't blame canada anymore? 
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
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