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Disco Flint
Caldari
Disco Corp.
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Posted - 2007.11.27 11:04:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Disco Flint on 27/11/2007 11:04:40
/not signed
Unless you grind your learning skills before you can even fly something you can have fun with they're not all that annoying. I trained mine when I was competently able to fly a Ferox, had a blast in lvl3 missions and lowsec.
When I was done with them ... damn was I proud, all basics 5, advanced 4 and learning 5. Every time I look over my skills I still feel proud, as my learning category looks so damn nice, and I know that many people nowadays don't even bother with basics to 5.
And ffs, people need to get the SP=competitive out of their heads. I currently have ~30m SP, a lot in BS relevant skills, STILL I can't really fly BS in PvP competitively... as I rarely if at all fly them in PvP.
What's with the fitting skills btw? Aren't they a grind as well? They take quite some time and have no other bonus as to be able to fit ones ship 'competitively'. Oh, and nobody is forcing you to train them asap, still you'll hear in every thread of noobs asking what to train first: Engineering & Electronics, Weapon Upgrades.
Should we get rid of them, too? Hell no. Such skills make the difference between someone seeking instant gratification and those who are willing to devote their time to EVE. Those who "endure" the grind and find the fun things to do in EVE will eventually realize that skillpoints don't make the pilot and your game. Skillpoints are there to get you into the toys you want to play with, whatever you do with these toys is entirely up to yourself.
 Originally by: Frug
I like the arrows. those are nice. Everyone should put little arrows and stuff around their topic titles.
Nearly forgot to /sign that.
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Reinforcements
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Posted - 2007.11.27 11:04:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Wild Rho
You're making the assumption this is even possible. It's been hinted now and then that the system does now allow devs/gms to simply give players skillpoints mainly when players were complaining about the loss of them due to clone related mishaps. I could be misinformed though, wouldn't be the first time.
Of course it is possible to implement. Just because it currently "can't" be done (by a GM) now does not mean it can't be done if someone really wanted to code it in. There is no way there could be some technical limitation to this. That would be like saying in a game we can have green skeletons but not red zombies. It is merely a matter of coding it in.
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"There are to many of them! We are out numbered! We need reinforcements!"
"Somebody call my name?" |
N1fty
Amarr
Galactic Shipyards Inc
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2007.11.27 11:28:00 -
[33]
Dude, awesome arrows, I think EVERY topic on the forums should have them by default.
Didn't read you're post.
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SoftRevolution
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Posted - 2007.11.27 11:35:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Princess Xenia
Think of these learning skills as an anti-wow filter...
A filter to prevent SHORT-SIGHTED people from playing such an insane game: EVE.
or think of it as:
Most of us have to get an education for a QUARTER of a century... only then to start working and be a 'productive' member of society... was spending such time studying good to yourself??? IMO there is no right or wrong asnwer... U harvest what u sow...
My irony detector just sploded 
EVE RELATED CONTENT |
Hugh Ruka
Caldari
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2007.11.27 12:04:00 -
[35]
NO
If you view the learning skills as a burden, bad for you. I see them as a strategic decision.
So far we got:
1. adv. learning only requires level 4 in first tier learning skills
2. 800k SP starting characters
3. Achura (tho this is a mishap by CCP I guess)
Now you want to remove the learning skills at all. Next time somebody will want a starter cruiser instead of the frigs they get ? What next ?
The game is easy as it is already.
Originally by: Aravel Thon
Originally by: Nith Batoxxx
Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox...............
I am so so terribly sorry...
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Maximillian Dragonard
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Posted - 2007.11.27 12:47:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Maximillian Dragonard on 27/11/2007 12:48:25
Frankly, I'm getting tired of everyone new coming in and saying "omg learning is boring, get rid of it". This isn't WoW where instant gratification is king! You have a CHOICE in learning, and if you choose to invest the time in them, you benefit from them. If you choose not to, you can still enjoy the game without them. Quit being such a fewkin' metagamer and enjoy the !@#!@# game!
What gives lately... The last few months all we hear are whines from new people 
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EWAR... love it or hate it.... learn to deal with it! |
ry ry
StateCorp
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Posted - 2007.11.27 12:55:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Admiral Nova
New players train 'way' too quickly. I've trained myself many alts since I started, and each one gets faster and faster. TBH they need to bring back the lvl 5 requirement for the advanced learning skills.
actually it's true - i re-rolled, grabbed an implant clone with +3s and ry ry is gaining skillpoints 25% faster than my old char did.
that's not why i re-rolled though... my original character was fugly. :(
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Khes
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Posted - 2007.11.27 14:45:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Khes on 27/11/2007 14:48:58
I guess it started out like this: From the beginning training-skills did not exist. Players whined about the training times so CCP gave them learning skills so they could choose to train thouse and cut down their future traning times if they wanted to. Shall we now take away out ability to make our training times shorter? No one is "forcing" anyone to train learning skills. It is not a force-grind. It is actually the oposite. It is a posssibility to cut down your training time. It is something positive. It is not a force grind any more then saying implants is a must and a "force expense".
How can the possibility to cut down your skills training time be a timesink?
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u die
Minmatar
Sugarcane Technologies
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Posted - 2007.11.27 14:52:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Maximillian Dragonard
Edited by: Maximillian Dragonard on 27/11/2007 12:48:25
Frankly, I'm getting tired of everyone new coming in and saying "omg learning is boring, get rid of it". This isn't WoW where instant gratification is king! You have a CHOICE in learning, and if you choose to invest the time in them, you benefit from them. If you choose not to, you can still enjoy the game without them. Quit being such a fewkin' metagamer and enjoy the !@#!@# game!
What gives lately... The last few months all we hear are whines from new people
this
+add:
...as i started this game, there were no advanced learning skills in the game. Advanced learning skills were a boost for the new players to train more effectively, by this SPs earned before this event were inflated. Guess normal learnings skills were implemented for the same reason. +4 and +5 implants were also delayed to give more advantage for the new players. It would be awesome if newcomers would think first and just after then would start brainstorming. But the best would be if *some* people would just accept the game, as it is, as it was, as it will be.
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Stitcher
Caldari
legion of qui
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.11.27 15:00:00 -
[40]
I think the OP maybe ignored the fact that we already have one topic on this subject already, and it's receiving similar negative feeback on the idea...
What about those thousands of us who actually already did spend all that time training those skills? If they were suddenly invalidated, I'd at least want to be able to re-distribute the skill points.
The training skills serve the useful purpose of offering greater variety and customization to the characters. I personally don't have a single learning skill up to level 5 on either of my characters yet (with the exception of "Learning" itself), having settled on getting up to level 4 across the board and then getting on with learning other stuff. Others will have gone for a full rack of fives, and thus will have a two-point advantage on me in all their stats.
I can honestly live with that fact. The fun thing about these skills is that they are low-rank (rand 1 or rank 3) skills that don't take a lot of time to train to level 4, and they pay off their low-level training very quickly, as you save more time than you spent.
Besides, turning the question around - what would removing them bring to the game? As far as I can tell their presence in the game is fairly neutral - they don't bring anything staggeringly wonderful to the game, but neither are they an actual detriment. In which case, it's best to stick with the status quo.
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The game is not the problem.
The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2007.11.27 15:07:00 -
[41]
My gut reaction was to blast a newbie for being soo presumptuous as to reccomend changes to a game they just joined.
But then I read his recommendation, and I must say, I like it. Learning skills are dull, and the 2.2mill people put into them is a real drag.
On the other hand, CCP did alot of good by reducing the skill reqs for the adv. learning skills. This means that most new players can attain an additional 6 attribute points for each skill in under a week. That aint too bad, and wont result in a massive refund for most eve players.
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Friends Forever
Kill.
BoB.
Dead. |
Reinforcements
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Posted - 2007.11.27 16:03:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Stitcher
What about those thousands of us who actually already did spend all that time training those skills? If they were suddenly invalidated, I'd at least want to be able to re-distribute the skill points.
See the part in my opening posts that has %%% preceding it? I marked that section just for you. Please read it.
This is the second time I've had to refer someone to that section. It is obvious you did not carefully read the proposal, or even give a decent skim over the rest of the thread.
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"There are to many of them! We are out numbered! We need reinforcements!"
"Somebody call my name?" |
Ares Lightfeather
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.27 16:08:00 -
[43]
Quote:
Besides, turning the question around - what would removing them bring to the game? As far as I can tell their presence in the game is fairly neutral - they don't bring anything staggeringly wonderful to the game, but neither are they an actual detriment. In which case, it's best to stick with the status quo.
Removing them doesn't add anything. They remove 1 - 12 weeks of utter boredom depending on how far you want to train them. Especially in the first weeks of the game. Removing or changing deliberately annoying parts of a game that are not meant to be annoying is enough of a reason for me.
-- random eve-related content -- |
Raem Civrie
Sons of Enelaise
Enelaise
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Posted - 2007.11.27 16:13:00 -
[44]
As much as I'd love to see those goddamn learning skills go away, I don't see a way to do it and your suggestions don't add up. While it would be nice to be able to channel 3.2m into your own pick of skills, like Wild Rho that's not necessarily possible within the given framework of EVE. And mutating the learning skills into something else is a whole different bag of angry cats, as inevitably some people would see some of their learning skills transformed into "something useless" to them.
I don't like learning skills. I think the rationalization of "WoW-Filter" ridiculous because the entire goddamn game is a huge wow-filter. A near-trivial grind isn't going to deter anyone that has gone through MC. Also, any system in EVE that could be considered as a filter for potential users and nothing else... is ********. I don't want to bar idiots from playing EVE with useless gameplay aspects. If people decide they hate EVE it should be for GOOD reasons, like that someone shot all their spaceships in lowsec, or that they can't get Boots of Speed +4. Not because you have to spend a month training a set of skills so that your training time is competetive. It's not rewarding, it's not smart. It's useless.
If anything, it should be a set of permanent "enhancements" gained through storyline missions. Or factional warfare. Honestly, I don't know what we could put instead. But something SHOULD be put instead of it. Something interesting.
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All roads lead to Catch |
Stitcher
Caldari
legion of qui
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.11.27 16:17:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Stitcher on 27/11/2007 16:17:24
Originally by: Reinforcements
Originally by: Stitcher
What about those thousands of us who actually already did spend all that time training those skills? If they were suddenly invalidated, I'd at least want to be able to re-distribute the skill points.
See the part in my opening posts that has %%% preceding it? I marked that section just for you. Please read it.
This is the second time I've had to refer someone to that section. It is obvious you did not carefully read the proposal, or even give a decent skim over the rest of the thread.
You're quite right, I didn't  . Sorry about that. After having spent a while already debating on another one of these threads that didn't actually offer an alternative solution, I'm afraid the temptation to just form all my opinions off the thread title alone and then cut to the part where I air my own opinion was just too much.
*reads*
Okay, that's a sensible suggestion, actually.
The question is how long it would take to re-code the game for that functionality, which I'm not qualified to speculate one, and whether said re-coding would get in the way of developing other parts of the game - again, something I can't really guess at.
I'm perfectly willing to accept the status quo, but then again I suppose that's because I already have these skills trained and don't see the need. I do think that your suggested system has considerable merit, however.
So, while I'm not convinced that there is any need for a change, I can certainly say that if there was a change, I'd like to see your system implemented. I hope that sounds fair.
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The game is not the problem.
The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
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Reinforcements
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Posted - 2007.11.27 16:24:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Stitcher
So, while I'm not convinced that there is any need for a change, I can certainly say that if there was a change, I'd like to see your system implemented. I hope that sounds fair.
It sounds more than fair. I can't believe I actually found someone on the internet who, when told to "read something again", actually changed their stance on an issue, if even slightly. Seriously, you have my respect.
---
"There are to many of them! We are out numbered! We need reinforcements!"
"Somebody call my name?" |
Voculus
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.11.27 16:28:00 -
[47]
Quote:
If you view the learning skills as a burden, bad for you. I see them as a strategic decision
There's nothing strategic about it in the least. You have to waste a month of training, or you watch everyone rack up SP at a much faster rate.
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Stitcher
Caldari
legion of qui
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.11.27 16:28:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Reinforcements
Originally by: Stitcher
So, while I'm not convinced that there is any need for a change, I can certainly say that if there was a change, I'd like to see your system implemented. I hope that sounds fair.
It sounds more than fair. I can't believe I actually found someone on the internet who, when told to "read something again", actually changed their stance on an issue, if even slightly. Seriously, you have my respect.
lol, that's the second time this month that's happened.
I hold that if you're going to debate, do so with an open mind - you have to consider the possibility that you might be wrong, or else there's no point in going into the discussion in the first placed.
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The game is not the problem.
The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
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JamnOne
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.11.27 16:34:00 -
[49]
First - don't like the title as it appears that you are really trying to mask the fact this is about learning skills and not attibutes.
Now - the only thing I would love to see added would be everytime you trained a skill (non-learning skill) you get a percentage applied to the attributes.
Example:
Science 1% added to Intelligence and 0.5% added to Memory per skill level
Battleship 1% added to Perception and 0.5% added to Willpower per skill level
This would apply accross the board and could easily be retroactive to benefit both old and new players. 1% or whatever CCP designates would apply to the main attribute while 50% of that is applied to the secondary attribute. For my example you would get 5% for each ship you took to level 5 applied to Perception. Of course this would apply to all skills.
Because I know most of my ideas aren't liked, I will put my flame ******ent space suit on.
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Originally by: CCP Prism X
Hah! Vengeance is sweet! 
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