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Sally
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Posted - 2004.03.06 22:40:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Sally on 06/03/2004 23:21:41
The recent changes in the game made it ultra-consent PvP-wise: There is no place in the universe where you can be forced to fight, regardless how much ISK you are earning each hour. The local-chat-feature, the map-radar-feature along with log-off-and-warp-to-safe-point-feature is killing all risk in the game.
People often simply log off as they spot something dangerous, or they even log off while being in fight or short before they are engaged. Even with 40% free insurance and 100% insurance payout within 12 weeks they just want to make their ISK-thingy.
Furthermore you did a knee-jerk reaction against piracy in empire space including 0.4-0.0 space again. The upcoming changes to sentry guns as stated in the patch review forum, which will kill sentry guns tanking, say that you do not want piracy in empire space.
Interesting features like cloaking devices and covert op frigates are not in game or as mobile warp disruptors hardly to not available.
In my opinion a mining party of 2 battleships and a dozen of haulers mining Arkanor 30 jumps away from the nearest station should be destroyable by a party of fighters equiped and skilled for it.
But it is almost impossible. I am skilled with the scanner, I usualy find the targets in a solar system in about 30-60 seconds after entering it and I have 100% result accuracy recently, it means, I always warp or order the people to warp to the right location with some victims at it. Even if the people do not log off or fly to a safespot while watching the blobs on the map or upon new players in local, the warp in point is often screwed that even with MWDs on a frigate people in danger often simply hit the log off button or they MWD themself in the opposite direction.
The only time one can catch someone is when people are away from keyboard or they think that one ship approaching them is not a danger at all. But they will make such a mistake only one time. The next time they will behave like stated above. Having a good warp in point is just luck, the belts are just too big and the scramble equipment has a too short range for it its purpose, even with MWDs on frigates.
This are observations about the current situation from a player who has been doing nothing else than intercepting other players in 0.4-0.0 and outside empire space the last month and I sadly came to the conclusion that I have to take a break from this game. The recent changes are just too crude and your playerbase is using everything possible to simply earn ISK without any risk in the most dangerous places around. Enabled by you CCP. Player controlled stations are unimportant targets for me, as I can not seize the loot in it and you also stated in the devblog, that you do not want corp wars for target practice and ransoming, which I respect.
I hope that you will rethink the whole situation (mainly ultra-consent PvP) and take appropriate measures.
Please keep responses to this post flame free. Thank you.
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Stories: #1
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.03.06 22:44:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
log-off-and-warp-to-safe-point-feature is killing all risk in the game
Weren't you recently complaining about log-off tactics to avoid death?
This prevents that.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
dalman
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Posted - 2004.03.06 22:45:00 -
[3]
Hi, my name is Molly, and I'm a carebear, troll, whiner and pirate, all-in-one.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.03.06 22:45:00 -
[4]
Blame Zombie for these measures - it's no coincidence these changes came into effect after their stunt in Yulai.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Kiana'tre
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Posted - 2004.03.06 22:46:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Kiana'tre on 06/03/2004 22:47:30
Same and I too will probably take a break until they figure it all out. Looks like a good 40 day skill is about to get trained up !
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McWatt
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Posted - 2004.03.06 22:49:00 -
[6]
good post sally. simple truth.
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.03.06 22:51:00 -
[7]
Quote:
Quote:
log-off-and-warp-to-safe-point-feature is killing all risk in the game
Weren't you recently complaining about log-off tactics to avoid death?
This prevents that.
No, it doesn't prevent it. When someone warps away from me to a planet and hits the the log off button while doing so and I am 5 seconds in warp after him to that planet, I will not catch him, I will only see him warping away to a safe spot as I arrive there. With the old system his ship would be destroyed. So the new system makes it easier to survive now.
A simple extended timer or extended remaining in space after PvP agression would solve the problems, but instead of it, we got a new system which is far more exploitable than the old one.
But I assume that a Tempest shooting a Scorpion from 60km and getting target jammed and loging off and being safe within seconds and that deep in 0.0 space is something you want to have in the game.
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Stories: #1
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.03.06 22:54:00 -
[8]
Quote:
Blame Zombie for these measures - it's no coincidence these changes came into effect after their stunt in Yulai.
Joshua, please refrain from posting on this thread. You have no practical experience in what so ever regarding pirating and then you are just lying. The only thing which came into effect regarding Zombie is the extended sentry gun range, everything else has been in the game before it. And the sentry guns are actually not the main point of my post, aren't they?
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Stories: #1
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Darrin Tobruk
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Posted - 2004.03.06 23:11:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Darrin Tobruk on 06/03/2004 23:12:22
Again I find myself siding with the pirates.  LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO, CCP! 
_______________________________________________
Eris Discordia: On the scale of funny and constructive it scores low, real low. |
SwitchBl4d3
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Posted - 2004.03.06 23:16:00 -
[10]
make everyone perma logged on like irc bouncers, then u either have todock or get podded to be safe in a station.
"Teh lord of Nonni"
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Dekar
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Posted - 2004.03.06 23:18:00 -
[11]
Regardless of how many "letters" you may write, the fact remains that the majority of this so called "pirating" is nothing more than noob bashing, ganking, gate camping, all the factors mentioned.
This change will:
Encourage warfare;
Make or break pvp players, depending on their skills.
-------------------------------------------------
Lying Scumbag |
Carzaro Merious
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Posted - 2004.03.06 23:21:00 -
[12]
As usual all we hear is nagging from rats.
I never run from a fight when I think I can stand it. BUt I will try and run when ever im out numbered. Also, what u rats dont udnerstand is that many people in EVE is here for having fun and do the isk thingy. These people probably outnumber the rats by far more and that makes it more intresting in trying to secure the space even more.
Thou, I really dont like the logg off ability either. Going to a safe spot = OK.. Logging off in mid space = not ok.
Per Aspera Ad Astra
Truth and Honesty is what this all is about. Want me as a friend? I will be your friend as long as you are mine. So speak the truth and be honest and you will recive the rewards. |
Lurk
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Posted - 2004.03.06 23:22:00 -
[13]
become some real pirate and no one will complain ...
btw if you don't podkill like well there will be no big red point on the map saying DON'T COME HERE.
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Alien8
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Posted - 2004.03.06 23:27:00 -
[14]
Still sore from your loss of implants Josh ?
Quote:
Blame Zombie for these measures - it's no coincidence these changes came into effect after their stunt in Yulai.
Did that have Anything to do with sentry guns ???
I¦m a bit baffled...plz enlighten me.
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Sara Kerrigan
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Posted - 2004.03.06 23:29:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Sara Kerrigan on 06/03/2004 23:31:03
I may end up taking a break as well. I want to pirate, not grief. Low sec empire is supposed to be the place for criminals to act at the cost of penalty (sec status hits) and with players learning to protect themselves (anti-pirates, bounty hunters). I want to block empire trade routes and demand tolls. I was never into the 'sniping out of sentry range', nor have I ever/will ever use the workaround of tanking the sentry. 0.0 is NOT the place to push pirates, because that is where there is no sec status loss and thus pirates can keep going back to high sec freely as if they weren't criminals.
I would write up all my suggestions here, but I've already done so in many threads. It's not a simple solution, not something you can just hotfix or tweak like sentry ranges.
______________
The Kerrigan Chronicles |
Sally
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Posted - 2004.03.06 23:30:00 -
[16]
Quote:
become some real pirate and no one will complain ...
btw if you don't podkill like well there will be no big red point on the map saying DON'T COME HERE.
What do you mean with "become some real pirate"? I have been member of the Space Invaders shortly after the game went public and we had to start to complain about some changes, because they are killing our ways of piracy more and more and FYI this ways were not about death and destruction, they were about ransom and extortion.
On your pod kill hint, the big orange blob on the map is what I ment with map-radar, regardless of any ships or pods destroyed in a particular solar system. If you watch the map for 5 minutes you pretty much know what's going on there and if it is better to log off or to travel through.
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Stories: #1
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Teelmaster
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Posted - 2004.03.06 23:30:00 -
[17]
The think sally is just jealous she got rejected by zap and m0o. Go away
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.03.06 23:32:00 -
[18]
Quote:
The think sally is just jealous she got rejected by zap and m0o. Go away
???
I never did a real application to m0o. I also never spoke to zap in personal as well. I know some guys in m0o like Omniwar and Tank, have been also fighting a bit together, but who are you again?
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Stories: #1
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Lansfear
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Posted - 2004.03.06 23:35:00 -
[19]
I don't get it. We find ways to avoid you all day long and all you can do is complain?
Have you ever thought we have just as much fun avoiding pirates and out smarting them as pirates do finding and killing us.
It's a game of cat and mouse. Right now you're Tom, and we're Jerry. Pirates must adapt and find ways to catch us, because we'll keep finding ways to avoid them.
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.03.06 23:40:00 -
[20]
Quote:
I don't get it. We find ways to avoid you all day long and all you can do is complain?
Have you ever thought we have just as much fun avoiding pirates and out smarting them as pirates do finding and killing us.
It's a game of cat and mouse. Right now you're Tom, and we're Jerry. Pirates must adapt and find ways to catch us, because we'll keep finding ways to avoid them.
Hitting the log off button is outsmarting for you? Sitting at a safespot is outsmarting for you? Preferably 400 au not in scanner range at all? Using an instant jump bookmark to get from 0.0 to 0.5 and not going any deeper is outsmarting for you? This are the experiences I personally made with you in Y-MPWL.
And now I understand why 2 of the 3 Dirty Deeds guys you asked to come to Y-MPWL once to outsmart us got destroyed within seconds. Because you tried to outsmart us for real and not with cheap game mechanics.
Happy mining in 0.0 next to a 0.5 system with no risk.
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Stories: #1
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Riddari
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Posted - 2004.03.06 23:47:00 -
[21]
Why don't the PVP'ers all just agree on a region where they can slug out consentual battles and can stay there?
The most vocal minority group ever, corporation wars are really consentual PVP. Get on it, if you aren't getting fights with corporation A just cancel that war and declare on another corporation which has more active pilots!
3 war slots should suffice to declare against 3 really big corporations with over 50 pilots each online at all times. Plenty of targets there.
"All we want to do is pirate".
Well all John Doe wants to do is run trade routes in 0.0, if he can't accomplish that why should you have more rights to pirate?
PIE have 13 wars ongoing and have to have escorts in their own home systems. Get into similar position, then your days will be filled with PVP.
¼©¼
a history |
Carzaro Merious
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Posted - 2004.03.07 00:01:00 -
[22]
ROFLMAO
Well said..
Quote:
Yet Another Open letter to CCP:
Please stop targeting Sally in the obvious recent game changes. She is in a 'delicate' condition and needs love. Here's a few suggestions that'd help Sally, possibly, and if not, would help another distressed person or two.
Logging on and off: Once someone logs onto Eve that is not named 'Sally', NEVER *ever* allow them to log off, dock, gate, or move in any direction. This should help Sally's condition. Also, make Sally invisible on local chat and cloaked at all times, including when she's podding someone so that undue stress on her system is avoided.
Reduce the sentry guns to civ gattling strength and their range to 4k. A real pirate like Sally is never hampered by little changes to guns such as you've made, but this is a chance for her to regain her equilibrium. Also, while we're at it, make Sally's ship quicker, her range longer, and all other ships slower and unable to shoot once targeted by Sally.
This game is called Sally-online for a reason, is it not? It's about Sally and not you. Give Sally some Mobile warp disrupters and give them a little range boost like 10,000,000km. This should be adequate to address her needs.
It seems like a mining party of 15 battleships and 3 dozen haulers mining Arkanor should be destroyable by one Sally who is armed to the teeth with special Sally mods. Sally is skilled with the scanner, something no one else has ever achieved in this game, so lets all give her a round of applause and make things a little easier.
Sally has only done one thing in this game; cheat, kill, pillage and loot, and I mean that in the finest most honorable way. Why should she suffer just because loser carebear jokers want to live? Is that fair?
I hope that you will rethink the whole situation (mainly ultra-Sally-biased-pvp) and take appropriate measures.
Please keep responses to this post flame free. Thank you.
An avid admirer of Sally (whoever she is)
Papol
PS: I may not post often, but when I do you can be sure it's a new landmark in stupidity.
Per Aspera Ad Astra
Truth and Honesty is what this all is about. Want me as a friend? I will be your friend as long as you are mine. So speak the truth and be honest and you will recive the rewards. |
Chai N'Dorr
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Posted - 2004.03.07 00:16:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Chai N'Dorr on 07/03/2004 00:19:11
It's a neverending cycle:
As long you as you have 'pirate' gank squads that move in by superior force, making any opposition a moot point, you'll have people heading to safe points and log off tactices.
And as long as you have log off tactics, safe points, ³ber police and killer sentries, 'pirates' feel the need to use these overwhelming gank squads against their prey.
Who came first..? Chicken and egg story. No clue whom to really blame for this stalemate.
It's plain human reaction: why fight a losing fight if you have a chance to flee and not fight at all. Especially with all the horror stories out there about KOS pirates shooting anything that moves. Why even take the chance that you get someone like Setec was that'd hold you up and demand money... and why even trust that person if he promises you to go free after payment.
Personally I think the origin to your problem lies with the fact that some immature people thought that ganking was the way to fame, isk and glory and they called it piracy.
Would I like to see this changed? Yes.
Do I know how? No.
But I suggest you start by changing the triggerhappy KOS mentality in your own 'pirating' community.
When I started last year's June, I at least thought I'd have either a moderate chance against the pirate menace (as it'd usually was one or two out on a hunt) and if I didn't have a chance, I'd at least could get away with some holes in my wallet, not ship or clone.
Now, I'd never even risk that situation...
Ed: forgot a little word
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Lansfear
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Posted - 2004.03.07 00:18:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Lansfear on 07/03/2004 00:25:08
Edited by: Lansfear on 07/03/2004 00:23:54
Quote:
Hitting the log off button is outsmarting for you?
No, and have never done this.
Quote:
Sitting at a safespot is outsmarting for you? Preferably 400 au not in scanner range at all?
Yes. A a very wise move. Actualy I like my spot next to the Kari gate, lets me see whos camping.
Quote:
Using an instant jump bookmark to get from 0.0 to 0.5 and not going any deeper is outsmarting for you?
Not only is this smart, but shaves alot of time traveling. And the ark i mine is 25 jumps. Pritty deep into .0's as far as i can tell.
Quote:
This are the experiences I personally made with you in Y-MPWL.
Damn you know me better than my own mother.
Quote:
And now I understand why 2 of the 3 Dirty Deeds guys you asked to come to Y-MPWL once to outsmart us got destroyed within seconds. Because you tried to outsmart us for real and not with cheap game mechanics.
What does this have to do with anything? You killed them, big deal.
Quote:
Happy mining in 0.0 next to a 0.5 system with no risk.
Ark is 25 jumps out. I have 4 rails, two miner 2's on and a full set of wasps and drones to help mine the ark and help me kill the npcs, solo. Sofar I've lost two dom's learning who to set it up. No risk right?
Not a single point you tried to make here proves anything. You can just as easily make the same BM's we have. You have the personel and the knowledge to stop any and all indys of ark we bring back. Negotiator told you weeks ago how to do it easily.
And as far as i know you blow people up all the time, just this week corp1 caught and killed two freelancing bs's. Thats alot of isk lost for solo pilots.
You do better than you think you do and youre still whinning.
Edited for too many damn quotes.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.03.07 00:33:00 -
[25]
Edited by: j0sephine on 07/03/2004 00:36:10
"Why don't the PVP'ers all just agree on a region where they can slug out consentual battles and can stay there?"
... For the same reason the real pirates were preying on weakly armed merchant ships, rather than on one another or the royal navy?
"3 war slots should suffice to declare against 3 really big corporations with over 50 pilots each online at all times. Plenty of targets there."
At which point the really big corporations start losing members like leaves, and ask questions during next CSM if something can be done about them being griefed by many people for no reason and having their members scared away or unable to undock... to which CCP responds that yes, of course something can be done. As a matter of fact, it's already planned. And then it is promptly done.
Once that option is removed, what will be your next advice?
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Zak Kingsman
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Posted - 2004.03.07 00:48:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Zak Kingsman on 07/03/2004 00:51:10
A couple of things I'd like to see to make this game more interesting.
A) no more names in local, you can max range scan and see ship names if you want to keep an eye on who's in the area, maybe give us another range scanner tab so I can use that one to filter just ships. If you talk you'll be tagged with your name though.
B) no more seeing number of ships in a system on the map. Can't see large groups of pirates but they can't see groups of miners either.
C) if you're going to have a ships destroyed or podkills in the map, make it delayed for how far away you are from the system. This way your information is more like a trickle of news. If its the next system over then you're likely to hear about a ship being destroyed or someone being podded fairly quickly. If its on the other side of the galaxy then it's gonna take a LONG time. If that's not feasable Remove the ability to see ships destroyed and podkills, then you'll have to get your info through REAL word of mouth.
D) Make it so you can't log off to avoid combat. CTD's happen(rarely for me but aparently more commonly for others) But I'd rather die cause of a freak crash than have everyone avoid combat by logging out. I think you should continue doing whatever you were last doing though(anything on auto would continue to do so, if you were orbiting you'll orbit if you were moving in a certain direction you'll do so. 2-5 minutes of being persistant before disapearing should be enough. When you log back in after that 2-5 minutes you'll be cloaked with 0 shields and 10% cap(to prevent log in gank)
E) make it so I can warp a specific distance. IE I narrow someone down to within 10000km of me and within 5 degrees on my scanner, I should be able to warp in the direction of my scan for 5000km and start again. This will prevent people from being completely safe in a spot in space.
F) Make it so you can't set a safe spot by bookmarking a location in the f11 map.
G) If you make it so you can warp in a specific direction, you may have to place a limit on how far you can warp outside of a system. I don't know if this would be a good idea or not, I'd like to see what happened after the first points were implimented.
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Gan Howorth
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Posted - 2004.03.07 01:28:00 -
[27]
Good post Zak.
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Imperishable
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Posted - 2004.03.07 01:37:00 -
[28]
It's too easy to avoid PvP in this game, even in 0.0 systems
This forces most of the figting to be done with words rather than action. OK, so the emphasis is shifting toward PvE. But all the NPCs are so predictable and it gets boring fast. If CCP doesn't want to give much power to PvPers, they should make PvE more interesting. Else fighter people will lose interest and cancel their accounts
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.03.07 01:44:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Edited by: Chai N'Dorr on 07/03/2004 00:19:11
It's a neverending cycle:
As long you as you have 'pirate' gank squads that move in by superior force, making any opposition a moot point, you'll have people heading to safe points and log off tactices.
And as long as you have log off tactics, safe points, ³ber police and killer sentries, 'pirates' feel the need to use these overwhelming gank squads against their prey.
Who came first..? Chicken and egg story. No clue whom to really blame for this stalemate.
It's plain human reaction: why fight a losing fight if you have a chance to flee and not fight at all. Especially with all the horror stories out there about KOS pirates shooting anything that moves. Why even take the chance that you get someone like Setec was that'd hold you up and demand money... and why even trust that person if he promises you to go free after payment.
Personally I think the origin to your problem lies with the fact that some immature people thought that ganking was the way to fame, isk and glory and they called it piracy.
Would I like to see this changed? Yes.
Do I know how? No.
But I suggest you start by changing the triggerhappy KOS mentality in your own 'pirating' community.
When I started last year's June, I at least thought I'd have either a moderate chance against the pirate menace (as it'd usually was one or two out on a hunt) and if I didn't have a chance, I'd at least could get away with some holes in my wallet, not ship or clone.
Now, I'd never even risk that situation...
Ed: forgot a little word
Sorry but look to yourselves for why it's like it is. Every change CCP makes in response to people's whining just makes the pirates add more guns to their forces. Sniping from range was one of the few things that could be done with just 2 ships.
Now with the changed range, expect to see 5 ships at the stargate. With 1 ship tanking the sentry guns, 4 ships supporting the 1 ship... And all 5 ships wtfpwning you as soon as you warp in/uncloak. Tier 2 battleships have 8 high slots after all and it's more a coordination issue than a shield/cap transfer modules issue to tank the guns. Which leaves a fair amount of firepower left over on all the ships to vaporize you.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Riddari
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Posted - 2004.03.07 01:45:00 -
[30]
I'm still perplexed.
Why is forced PVP more fun than consentual?
I just don't get it! Obviously a limitation in my imagination.
¼©¼
a history |
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