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Is it time to buff some tech II ammos?

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Pudgy McFudge	Posted - 2007.11.29 22:23:00 - [1] Edited by: Pudgy McFudge on 29/11/2007 22:24:54 I guess people are happy with the status quo, which is why i'm asking a question rather than making a statement. However, it seems to me that javelin ammo is totally useless. I was under the impression that useless things were redundant and therefore had no reason to exist. Javelin exists so it must have some reason, and shooting capital ships really doesnt cut it. Lets look at the tape: Javelin ammo = 25% less range than any standard ammo -- 25% more cap need -- 10% less velocity per gun loaded and 25% less tracking speed all for a whopping 16.6% damage increase. Spike ammo = 75% less tracking for lead ammo with the cap use of antimatter and 80% more range! the only gimp is the tracking and the cap need. at extreme ranges (all caldari ships that are meant for rails get a range bonus anyway) tracking becomes less and less important. This all means that spike is sweet and javelin never gets used. I'm not sure how javelin compares to other high damage ammos for artillery and beam lasers but compared to spike it seems like too much gimp for too little bonus. Maybe it's time for an ammo buff or at least a de-gimp? ________________________________________________________________ How can you complain so much about a leisure activity no one forces you to do?
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.29 22:41:00 - [2] Dont even start about missiles..faction ammo made rage / fury (high dmg) variations obsolete. Sig removed for the third time, inappropriate content. Sig Locked. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
I'm Helping	Posted - 2007.11.29 22:52:00 - [3] im just talking about javelin... it'll be ok...
Captain Rod	Posted - 2007.11.29 22:55:00 - [4] I think faction ammo really smacked tech 2 producers on the head eh? I do agree though. Maybe T2 ammo's need a little boost. Nothing crazy just a tad.
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:02:00 - [5] In general, long range T2 ammo is worth using and close range T2 ammo isn't. It would be nice if some of the downsides were either removed or lessened.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:04:00 - [6] Edited by: Nomakai Delateriel on 29/11/2007 23:04:38 Indeed. Why on earth would I chose Gleam or Conflag when Amarr Navy Multifrequency is readily available and it deals pretty much the same amount of damage but without the drawbacks? ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Gawain Hill	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:08:00 - [7] it'd be nice if they made it so T2 ammo drawbacks only applied once then it wouldn't be nearl as bad
Locke Ateid Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:16:00 - [8] Min's howz T2 ammo definitely needs to be rethought.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:18:00 - [9] Originally by: Gawain Hill it'd be nice if they made it so T2 ammo drawbacks only applied once then it wouldn't be nearl as bad This. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:36:00 - [10] CCP devblog: Hello boys and gals, we are nerfing faction ammo! _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Pudgy McFudge	Posted - 2007.11.30 00:26:00 - [11] i dont think it's productive to make both types of high damage ammo not worth using either because of excessive gimping for tech II or outrageous prices for faction. ________________________________________________________________ How can you complain so much about a leisure activity no one forces you to do?
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.30 02:06:00 - [12] Originally by: Sokratesz Dont even start about missiles..faction ammo made rage / fury (high dmg) variations obsolete. rage/jav torps are just fine and i never gonna use faction torps over tII anymore. (well perhaps if i could get my hand on dg torps but they are just to expensive and uncommon:)
Shardrael Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.11.30 02:16:00 - [13] not sure about the other sizes cause i primarily use heavys but the tech 2 heavy missiles are signifigantly worse then tech 1, let alone that they are not even in the same league as faction... tech 2 precision heavies have worse speed and flight time then tech 1.... same with the fury heavies and dmg on fury is not even as good as caldari navy faction. tbo tech 2 fury should have the same range as tech 2 and do faction dmg, and precisions should do better range and speed then tech 1 with tech 1 dmg and better explosion radius... as it is now all tech 2 heavy missiles are totally worthless.
Gorthauran Amarr Throne of Tragedy	Posted - 2007.11.30 02:23:00 - [14] Well with regards to T2 crystals vs faction crystals they really do need a buff considering their price tag compared to the cheaper faction ones. Problem with T2 crystals is that they wear out way too fast compared to faction crystals. This is the only reason i don't like to use them much over the faction ones. If they could bring their lifespan in line with that of the faction crystals i am sure they would be more balanced and worth purchasing over the faction ones.
Susa Ou	Posted - 2007.11.30 02:35:00 - [15] In PvP, Scorch, Barrage and Void are still the select choise - they pack a lot of punch and really play on the strengths on various ammo types (range/cap use to damage for scorch, falloff for barrage, pure damage for void).
Pudgy McFudge	Posted - 2007.11.30 02:37:00 - [16] it seems to me like the tech II ammo is actually much cheaper than faction ammo, so it isn't that it costs too much for what it does. I think the problem is that with the drawbacks it makes tech II ammo way cheaper than faction ammo because faction is so much more desirable. I think that if you nerf faction ammo to be more in line with tech II all it will do is kill the price on both ammo types instead of just tech II. I think it makes more sense to make the tech II ammo worth buying again so people can take advantage of the invetion of it, which will in turn drop the price of faction as people become less dependant on it. Let's face it there really isn't much of a bonus to tech II weapons other than the miniscule refire/damage bonus from the spec skill if the tech II ammo isn't worth using. The weapons use more resources and make ships harder to fit. How about rewarding the people who trained for the skill? I havent used tech II launchers since i first got the skill because the CPU and PG kills my fit and the extra refire doesn't turn my crank. And ofcourse my tech II rails are pointless unless i want to snipe with spike. ________________________________________________________________ How can you complain so much about a leisure activity no one forces you to do?
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Eve University	Posted - 2007.11.30 02:40:00 - [17] Originally by: Susa Ou In PvP, Scorch, Barrage and Void are still the select choise - they pack a lot of punch and really play on the strengths on various ammo types (range/cap use to damage for scorch, falloff for barrage, pure damage for void). Except that easily available faction navy antimatter does dps near equivalent to void without the 50% tracking penalty. Whoops!
Pudgy McFudge	Posted - 2007.11.30 02:41:00 - [18] Originally by: Susa Ou In PvP, Scorch, Barrage and Void are still the select choise - they pack a lot of punch and really play on the strengths on various ammo types (range/cap use to damage for scorch, falloff for barrage, pure damage for void). i agree that the high damage pulse, auto and blaster charges do great in their roles, but i think the high damage rail howi and beam ammos need to come back in line with the effectiveness of the long range versions. This is only really about certain ammos, not saying that all need a buff. ________________________________________________________________ How can you complain so much about a leisure activity no one forces you to do?
Pudgy McFudge	Posted - 2007.11.30 02:43:00 - [19] Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin Originally by: Susa Ou In PvP, Scorch, Barrage and Void are still the select choise - they pack a lot of punch and really play on the strengths on various ammo types (range/cap use to damage for scorch, falloff for barrage, pure damage for void). Except that easily available faction navy antimatter does dps near equivalent to void without the 50% tracking penalty. Whoops! In short range webs can be used, so tracking isn't as important, especially considering the inherent tracking of short range guns. but yes, navy ammo can do what tech II can do and do it better. ________________________________________________________________ How can you complain so much about a leisure activity no one forces you to do?
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.30 03:38:00 - [20] Originally by: Shardrael not sure about the other sizes cause i primarily use heavys but the tech 2 heavy missiles are signifigantly worse then tech 1, let alone that they are not even in the same league as faction... Not to mention that javelin HAMs outrange both t2 variants of heavy missiles... --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
hellsknights Hells Angels Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.30 04:19:00 - [21] I don't think so..... They are nerfing everything to reduce DPS it seems, so why would they buff T2 ammo to increase DPS? I wish they would add content instead of taking content away. recruitment thread Join channel Hells Angels Inc
I'm Helping	Posted - 2007.11.30 04:26:00 - [22] Originally by: hellsknights They are nerfing everything to reduce DPS it seems, so why would they buff T2 ammo to increase DPS? exactly my point, how about some balance?
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.30 04:35:00 - [23] About the T2 missiles.. do the high damage variants have the speed penalty when the launcher is loaded with it or is it only when you begin firing the missiles? Originally by: Tortun Nahme CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time
Pudgy McFudge	Posted - 2007.11.30 05:10:00 - [24] Originally by: Paulo Damarr About the T2 missiles.. do the high damage variants have the speed penalty when the launcher is loaded with it or is it only when you begin firing the missiles? when they are loaded u are slower ________________________________________________________________ How can you complain so much about a leisure activity no one forces you to do?
Kamen SRBI Circle 0f Two	Posted - 2007.11.30 11:37:00 - [25] Originally by: I'm Helping Originally by: hellsknights They are nerfing everything to reduce DPS it seems, so why would they buff T2 ammo to increase DPS? exactly my point, how about some balance? Well how about having t2 ammo that is not NERFIG but BOOSTING, say tracking, explo velocity or something like that... ------------------------------------------------ (Recruiting ad) SRBI regrutuju! Dodjite na nas javni SRBI kanal.
Grif Oberwald	Posted - 2007.11.30 12:11:00 - [26] T2 Javelin HAM's do 6% more damage at 2% less range than T1 heavies. Short range T2 ammo needs a massive buff, and should be bought into line with the T2 long range ammo in that it does twice the damage T1 would do if the range was comparable. However this would make things a little unbalanced without increasing the penalties considerably, so really a complete rethink of T2 ammo is required.
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.11.30 12:27:00 - [27] Originally by: Paulo Damarr About the T2 missiles.. do the high damage variants have the speed penalty when the launcher is loaded with it or is it only when you begin firing the missiles? iirc the speed malus is on the long range missiles, the damage ones lower cap regen.
Polcor Rodal Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.30 12:34:00 - [28] T2 ammo recived a severe nerf about a year ago (check the dev blog archieve for details) or so. The reason that was was something like "We figured out, that in an equal combat the player with T2 Ammo wins" (what a surprise). Especially in times BEFORE the HP-buff was implemented. Due to the fact that you need more SP to use T2 Ammo (of course) they nerfed it, in a way, that lower SP players get a chance to compete. Faction Ammo was not that common, cheap and easilly obtained as it is now, since there was no LP Store. Right after the introduction of LP Store everyone with half brains realizes, that T2 weapons loaded with faction ammo will will be the way to go. Since the additional SP are needed for the weapons instead of the ammo, we have a pretty similiar situation now, exept that combat now last a bit longer due to HP buff and a slightly reduce damage from faction ammo in comparison with former T2 ammo. So guess what will happen next.... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The best way to prevent a nerf, is TESTING & THINK TWICE before implementing stuff.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.11.30 13:24:00 - [29] tech2 hi-damage ammo is useless as it is, offering nearly the same damage as faction ammo but with penalties attached. as it is using faction AM ammo is better than using void. --- planetary interaction idea!
Polcor Rodal Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.30 13:42:00 - [30] Edited by: Polcor Rodal on 30/11/2007 13:42:17 Originally by: Cpt Branko But, T2 guns with T1 ammo >> T1 guns with T1 ammo, so the problem will NEVER be resolved. If they really wanted to make T1/T2 more SP-friendly, they could've reduced requirements for T2 guns or something, but then it'd be too easy (maybe). Agree. The idea behind the nerf last year was, to nerf the advantage between T1 and T2 a bit, so that - with the HP buff, players with T1 stuff got a better chance to win, since CCP stated that otherwise a player with T2 will ALWAYS win. Nowadays yo can - almost - get the same DPS with best named T1 + faction ammo. The only advantage come from the specalization skill (RoF or Dmg). We are not taking into account the support skills, which are normally higher for an older player, but - theoretically - they can be the same for a younger one. And yes, the problem will NEVER be solved, just the "gap" is being narrowed a bit. Pol ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The best way to prevent a nerf, is TESTING & THINK TWICE before implementing stuff.

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