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Flurren
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Posted - 2007.12.02 00:25:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Flurren on 02/12/2007 00:31:41
Edited by: Flurren on 02/12/2007 00:30:53
Mainly the desire for a role is because its a t2 ship. The tradition (which also makes a lot of sense) is that a t2 ship is a new variation of a t1 hull with some unique bonus or layout that makes it specialized for a certain form of combat. Peoples problem with AFs is that they dont gain enough damage or slots over their t1 counterparts and actually lose ALOT of speed and agility and also have little to no specialized form of combat or role to justify their existence as a t2 ship (with the costs of a t2 ship to boot).
If you want an example of why people are slightly annoyed, compare the stabber to the vagabond and then compare the rifter to the jaguar. The gaps between the two different ship sizes are vastly different (and also the jaguar loses a bonus to the stupid resists farce).
They dont have to necessarily give AFs a particular role bonus (although one would be nice) as long as they buffed them up a bit. Say turn the resist bonus into some other sort of generic tanking or weapon system bonus and make the resists innate, give all AFs 1 or 2 more utility slots than their t1 counterparts and one more main weapon system hard point and increase their speed and agility so its only 20% or so worse than the t1 frigates. This would seem to be in line with the difference between t1 cruisers and HACs and would make AFs feel like a real upgrade instead of just a bit extra.
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Flurren
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Posted - 2007.12.02 03:25:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Pitt Bull
Size is not always relevant to survivability. I think using your brain and training the most transferable skills is the best bet. I believe the role of the Assault Frigate is to train the pilot the proper survival skills to keep their future ships alive, while giving them a very good base to begin properly fitting their ships (and avoid the need for PDUs, RCUs or CPU upgrades which take up useful slots.)
First you learn that it takes time and dedication to succeed at this game, thus you wait 3-4 weeks for Caldari Frigate V, Engineering V, and Mechanic V. By this point you have full mastered the frigate class of ships (in terms of setup and deployment) and you have a grasp on the inner workings of ALL spacecrafts.
Second you learn that even Tech II ships can be popped. You learn that shield/armor resistances do not make you invincible. You might even learn to STAY OUT OF WEBBING RANGE and then again learn that you don't have a specialized role while flying the AF except to learn and survive while doing it.
From here you can move on to more specialized ships, or feel confident that you have learned enough to fly a bigger ship, and win.
That's my 2c.
So the only purpose of AFs is to punish new players and teach them the cruelness of eve and that it has some ships that suck and you shouldnt really be flying? How do you even intend to stay out of web range when most cruisers are faster than you and what exactly do you think you're accomplishing by being there fitted with long range weaponry that takes up all your fitting and still does pitiful dps? Beyond webbing range i assure you not many guns will have much trouble tracking you either if their effective range is even close to where you're flying, which it will be if you're doing something worthwhile like say, damaging the enemy or scrambling them.
The style of play for a frigate differs completely from other ships in that you use your small sig to try to avoid enemy fire instead of fitting a tank to absorb it so this fact completely refutes your point.
Humbling a player is not a valid role for a ship. You learn every ship you fly gradually and INDIVIDUALLY as the tactics for each differ immensely.
Sorry but my opinion is your post is a pile of bull.
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Flurren
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Posted - 2007.12.02 05:25:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Flurren on 02/12/2007 05:28:25
To the first post:- i disagree a ship should be made simply for the purpose of giving low sp chars an alternative to cruiser and then becomming useless later on. Not having enough sp to use a bigger ship is not a viable role for a smaller t2 ship.
To the second one:- I didnt say they sucked. I said the person quoting the fact that they're fragile even taking into account their resists and using this as a reason for their existence i.e. to "humble" new players is a stupid reason to make a ship and not a role CCP would ever design a ship for.
Lastly:- I run level 3 missions adequately in my AFs. I know i could do them faster and with less risk in a cruiser or BC but i enjoy flying frigates. This is not a reason for the ship to exist its simply to illustrate im damn sure i know how to fit an AF. I also pvp from time to time.
"Aside from that fact, the new player (that's me) learns powergrid management and structural integrity, that means nothing? Finally, don't ask what the ship can do to keep you alive; ask what you can do to keep your ship alive." - you mean the lesson that when you have no hit points left your ship goes bye bye? I think most of us found relatively simple to work out.
Also the only way an AF out-tanks a cruiser is if you dont have repair systems II for a repper or you're fighting sansha in a wolf 
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Flurren
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Posted - 2007.12.02 23:07:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Grimpak
Edited by: Grimpak on 02/12/2007 21:39:35
Originally by: Apewall
Much like many HACs can outperform their counterpart battlecruisers in many areas.
what?
a well flow tier2 cruiser will murder a HAC. an ishtar will be wtfpwned by a myrmidon simply due to the ability of fielding the double or the triple of the tank.
a zealot is pants vs a harbinger.
I don't see a cerberus capable of killing a drake, and I defintely am scared of facing a hurricane in a vaga or muninn.
of course this is if the BC's are well piloted.
tier1 BC's however are a whole different (and generally worse) horse.
the only area that HAC's outperform BC's is in mobility.
Not 100% but im pretty sure a nano-ishtar will outrun a myrms medium drones. BC vs HAC isnt even close to being as clear cut a victory as you seem to think.
But this thread is about AFs...
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Flurren
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Posted - 2007.12.02 23:25:00 -
[5]
If neither ship can kill the other i think thats generally called a draw.
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