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Xequecal	Posted - 2007.12.03 23:49:00 - [61] Originally by: Jackal79 Someone explain how the pilgrim/arby are getting their DPS nerfed? I thought with 50Mbit/s they will still be able to control 5x medium drones? Currently with a 75m3 bay they can deploy 2 heavies, 2 mediums, and a light, which do more DPS than 5 mediums.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.12.04 00:06:00 - [62] Originally by: Xequecal Originally by: Jackal79 Someone explain how the pilgrim/arby are getting their DPS nerfed? I thought with 50Mbit/s they will still be able to control 5x medium drones? Currently with a 75m3 bay they can deploy 2 heavies, 2 mediums, and a light, which do more DPS than 5 mediums. OK FINE There you go amarr 75 m3 dronebay and 75mbit, have a lot of fun. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Zhecao Vai Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.04 00:32:00 - [63] Originally by: Xequecal Originally by: Jackal79 Someone explain how the pilgrim/arby are getting their DPS nerfed? I thought with 50Mbit/s they will still be able to control 5x medium drones? Currently with a 75m3 bay they can deploy 2 heavies, 2 mediums, and a light, which do more DPS than 5 mediums. If you think that having 2 heavies, 2 mediums, and a light is better than having 15 mediums, then you are just wrong. Not "in some situations." Not "depending on your skills." Not "depending on who you are fighting." You are just wrong and wrong. There is no way that is better.
Augoror	Posted - 2007.12.04 00:45:00 - [64] Edited by: Augoror on 04/12/2007 00:45:31
Flyit	Posted - 2007.12.04 00:46:00 - [65] Maller. Just trust me
Ajenia Gallente MAFIA	Posted - 2007.12.04 00:47:00 - [66] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Andreask14 If you mean laser boats by traditional, i have good news for you, lasers still do the most dps at medium range, and are with the best at long range, its just only a smaller margin nowadays. Actually, Laser boats do lowest dps if look at lifetime of killing a real world fitted pvp ship due to resists. Exactly. I only fit my ships with loads of EM/Therm hardeners because I rarely encounter any non-Amarr ships (though I keep my thermal lower so that the occasional gallente ship doesn't feel so bad). -- It's a pleasure to burn.
Geren Basbar Helios Incorporated Insurgency	Posted - 2007.12.04 01:29:00 - [67] I'd say the punisher is pretty good too. If I didn't have more skills in shields I'd use it over a Merlin. (And I still use the punisher sometimes, because it just looks cool)
Jackal79	Posted - 2007.12.04 01:50:00 - [68] Hmmm I'd rather have several waves of drones than be able to fit just 2x heavies, 2x mediums and 1x light... With the nerf to TDs, won't a pilgrim still be able to evade battleship class gunfire with a the TD set to disrupt tracking? I guess webs on the battleship in question could be a problem tho.
Danari Amarr Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.04 04:07:00 - [69] Originally by: Xequecal If you are orbiting a stationary target you need a LOT "less" tracking to hit that target than the stationary target needs to hit you. You must be referring to the special theory of gullibility.
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.04 07:49:00 - [70] Originally by: Jackal79 Hmmm I'd rather have several waves of drones than be able to fit just 2x heavies, 2x mediums and 1x light... With the nerf to TDs, won't a pilgrim still be able to evade battleship class gunfire with a the TD set to disrupt tracking? I guess webs on the battleship in question could be a problem tho. Nope. TD's do nto effec falloff, and since the nerf, you can either reduce range or tracking. But the pilgrim has to fight in web range, so there is no point having tracking scripts, since you will either take on missle ratters, or turret users with web. Also, with the range pilgrim has to fight at, there is no point in range TD scripts. Basically, TD's are close to useless. / CCP fix for Amarr is in EVE Trinity - The Trinity of training either Caldari, Gallente or Minmatar!
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.12.04 08:11:00 - [71] Edited by: Xequecal on 04/12/2007 08:11:10 Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Jackal79 Hmmm I'd rather have several waves of drones than be able to fit just 2x heavies, 2x mediums and 1x light... With the nerf to TDs, won't a pilgrim still be able to evade battleship class gunfire with a the TD set to disrupt tracking? I guess webs on the battleship in question could be a problem tho. Nope. TD's do nto effec falloff, and since the nerf, you can either reduce range or tracking. But the pilgrim has to fight in web range, so there is no point having tracking scripts, since you will either take on missle ratters, or turret users with web. Also, with the range pilgrim has to fight at, there is no point in range TD scripts. Basically, TD's are close to useless. Two TDs scripted for tracking will prevent a battleship from hitting you with guns even while you're webbed.
Theron Gyrow Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.12.04 08:26:00 - [72] Originally by: Danari Originally by: Xequecal If you are orbiting a stationary target you need a LOT "less" tracking to hit that target than the stationary target needs to hit you. You must be referring to the special theory of gullibility. This. Also, if the Astarte is at 2km orbit, for it to get even a 10% damage reduction against heavy pulses, it has to go about 200 m/s. With base speed of 145m/s, good luck getting better than that... -- Gradient forum
Wu Jiun	Posted - 2007.12.04 08:40:00 - [73] Originally by: Xequecal Two TDs scripted for tracking will prevent a battleship from hitting you with guns even while you're webbed. No. A megathron for example with 2 x bonused tds on it hits me just fine with neutron cannons. The only point where i can feel somewhat safe is in an ultraclose orbit. But i have to get so close first and even if i do he can still issue a keep at distance command, burst mwd and he'll start hitting me again. Not to mention the drones that eat me alive and the general nonsense of a recon designed for webrange. And that is prenerf.
Wu Jiun	Posted - 2007.12.04 08:54:00 - [74] Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Xequecal Originally by: Jackal79 Someone explain how the pilgrim/arby are getting their DPS nerfed? I thought with 50Mbit/s they will still be able to control 5x medium drones? Currently with a 75m3 bay they can deploy 2 heavies, 2 mediums, and a light, which do more DPS than 5 mediums. OK FINE There you go amarr 75 m3 dronebay and 75mbit, have a lot of fun. Funny how these gallente get butthurt because of their tiny vexor dronebay. 75m¦ -> 50m¦ for more dronebay is a tradeoff. A good one in my eyes but still there is no way denying it.
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.12.04 08:55:00 - [75] Originally by: Wu Jiun Originally by: Xequecal Two TDs scripted for tracking will prevent a battleship from hitting you with guns even while you're webbed. No. A megathron for example with 2 x bonused tds on it hits me just fine with neutron cannons. The only point where i can feel somewhat safe is in an ultraclose orbit. But i have to get so close first and even if i do he can still issue a keep at distance command, burst mwd and he'll start hitting me again. Not to mention the drones that eat me alive and the general nonsense of a recon designed for webrange. And that is prenerf. Why don't you have your own web to prevent that? If you get into web range of a target where he has web and you don't of course you're going to die. Also, we're talking about tracking disruptors, not the Pilgrim. The Pilgrim is crap. TDs are still great on the Arbitrator and the Curse, and may see use on mid-slot heavy ships now that you don't have damps anymore to fil up all your surplus mid slots with.
Wu Jiun	Posted - 2007.12.04 09:23:00 - [76] Originally by: Xequecal Why don't you have your own web to prevent that? Of course said mega is webbed. Originally by: Xequecal If you get into web range of a target where he has web and you don't of course you're going to die. Where did i state i don't fit webs? I do fit 90% webs ofc. And yes of course i web my enemies. I'd need also an ab to make a relevant transversal but i don't have that many medslots. Originally by: Xequecal Also, we're talking about tracking disruptors, not the Pilgrim. The Pilgrim is crap. We were talking about tds in webrange which basically means pilgrim when it comes to bonused ships, right? Originally by: Xequecal TDs are still great on the Arbitrator and the Curse, and may see use on mid-slot heavy ships now that you don't have damps anymore to fil up all your surplus mid slots with. Agreed but with a curse or arbi i probably will never ever enter webrange of a mega. So that is a moot point.
Gyro DuAquin1 Tri Optimum Ev0ke	Posted - 2007.12.04 09:36:00 - [77] nerf amarr
Grytok moon7empler Ev0ke	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:47:00 - [78] Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1 nerf amarr I've to disagree Sir . My postings in these forums do not necessarily represent my corp or alliance.
Aranin Amarr Exanimo Inc	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:01:00 - [79] been flying amarr for 3 1/2 years only recently cross trained to gallante tho i'd have to say my list of favourites include - Geddon - we all know why this ships been the same for a long time now. abbadon - when fitted and plated correctly it does its job, but can be outperformed by other races for sure. Absolution - people who think it sucks dont know wtf they are doign and shouldnt be in a command ship. damnation - has anyone actually bothered to look at this ship recently? you'll be surprised 5x HAMS with good skills +50% damage bonus + extra midslot = web. This ship also has an insane tank ontop of that with an extra 2 highslots for gangmods or nos/neut provided that its *****ble. one of the most underestimated ships in the game. its downfall its its cumbersome speed and agility. zealot - 1200m/s with a dual rep tank and good resists + consistant decent dps..i'll take that, or theres always the nano fit. sacrilege - since the khanid changes this is a really good ship...provided u have the missile skills which most amarr pilots do not. nano or tank fits both work well. curse - requires alot of micro-managemnt and concentration to fly well but it still works, i would have to say it could so with a bit of tweeking..its borderline. crusader/malediction - both fit their roles nicely however the taranis still is a scary sight for a crusader pilot, but a maxxed skill male pilot can do surprisingly nice damage. t1 ships...? who fly's t1 ships pfft =P tho if i am alking t1 i would have to say that the harbringer is the only really good t1 ship we have. the punisher works but tbh our cruisers are sub par baring the arbi, but in any gang sitautions its like piloting a wet paper bag full of cans.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:15:00 - [80] Edited by: madaluap on 04/12/2007 12:15:55 Originally by: Zhecao Vai Originally by: Xequecal Originally by: Jackal79 Someone explain how the pilgrim/arby are getting their DPS nerfed? I thought with 50Mbit/s they will still be able to control 5x medium drones? Currently with a 75m3 bay they can deploy 2 heavies, 2 mediums, and a light, which do more DPS than 5 mediums. If you think that having 2 heavies, 2 mediums, and a light is better than having 15 mediums, then you are just wrong. Not "in some situations." Not "depending on your skills." Not "depending on who you are fighting." You are just wrong and wrong. There is no way that is better. Thats my point! I'll take 150m3 dronebay and 50mbit over the vexor anyday. I allready figured out some decent setups (shieldextender, tracking dis, a nano here and there, orbit outside webrange) and its gonna be a lot of fun. It is a decent ship and i dont want to see it changed, just cause some people dont know how to appriciate a decent ship. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Berendas	Posted - 2007.12.04 15:06:00 - [81] Seems all the fuss about the Arbi and TD nerf is a little bit of an overreaction. The biggest asset to TD's was the tracking speed modifier, the optimal range one was barely ever used in my experience, even though the nerf was uncalled for, it isn't really that bad
Torco Infinite Style Incorporated	Posted - 2007.12.04 15:47:00 - [82] guardian
d'hofren Malicious Intentions The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.04 20:43:00 - [83] Originally by: Wu Jiun Stuff about webs and TD's The point behind webs is that they are designed to pin down a target so you can rip it apart. No form of ecm should be a win button in removing a targets ability to fight back.... This is why all the caldari ecm boats are made of paper. Miss a jam cycle or and you either die or run. We are talking about a Battleship here, the point in TII ships isn't to outclass them. Both cladari and minmatar recons would have second thoughts about trying to take a decently fitted and piloted mega I see no reason why TD's should serve a target to you on a platter? Recons are support ships remember? Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Berendas	Posted - 2007.12.06 05:22:00 - [84] Edited by: Berendas on 06/12/2007 05:22:08 Recons are good support ships but the Huginn/Rapier, Curse, and Lachesis have all been greatly successful in solo, not that theres anything wrong with that. However, the recent patches have made soloing in a Curse very difficult and Trinity will give Lachesis/Arazu pilots a very hard time soloing.
Daqinson The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.06 05:35:00 - [85] The Harbringer is a monster of a ship! I can tank a 3 BS spawn and completely destroy them without losing cap, and I can also fair VERY well in a fleet situation. -------------------------- Specs: H: x7 Heavy Pulse Laser II H: Salvager I M: x2 Cap Recharger II M: 10MN Afterburner II M: Tracking Computer II L: x2 Medium Inefficent Armor Repair Unit L: x2 Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II L: Heat Sink II L: Beta Reactor Control: Reaction Control I RIGS: 3x Capacitor Control Circuit I ------------------------------ Like I said, she is a beast!
Berendas	Posted - 2007.12.06 06:46:00 - [86] Interesting, my Harbinger fit for PVP is: Highs Heavy Pulse Laser I x7 Mids 10MN AB II Warp Disruptor II Named Webber Medium Cap Booster II Lows Damage Control II MAR II EANM I Energized Explosive Hardener II Heat Sink II x2 I'd make the EANM tech 2, but I don't have the CPU for it. Also, I'm trying not to get way too expensive with this Harbi, cuz this is the first time I've gotten really serious about PVPing in an Amarr ship so I don't wanna invest too much ISK in here, which is the reason I don't have named guns. Feel free to comment on the fit
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.06 08:52:00 - [87] Absolution - its a monster and anyone who laughs at one better have friends. . . -----------
Wu Jiun	Posted - 2007.12.06 09:16:00 - [88] Edited by: Wu Jiun on 06/12/2007 09:25:58 Originally by: d'hofren The point behind webs is that they are designed to pin down a target so you can rip it apart. No form of ecm should be a win button in removing a targets ability to fight back.... Yeah, because ecm doesn't keep people from fighting back, oh wait... Originally by: d'hofren This is why all the caldari ecm boats are made of paper. Miss a jam cycle or and you either die or run. This is a very solo-centric view. In reality a missed cycle means nothing as targets are damped (in future with scan res scripts) anyway. Apart from that with a pilgrim it is so you don't even go into your designed range (=web range) because you will get killed no matter what. How that is comparable to an ecm ship that may have more than 100km buffer from the targets its jamming is beyond me. Originally by: d'hofren We are talking about a Battleship here, the point in TII ships isn't to outclass them. So? Reading comprehension 4tw. I never said they should. However tds should shut down large turrets which they don't. At least not effective enough to give an incentive to actually fit them. Originally by: d'hofren Both cladari and minmatar recons would have second thoughts about trying to take a decently fitted and piloted mega Dude! WTF are you talking about? I don't want to solo a ***** mega. I am talking about GANG support. Wasn't exactly obvious in that context, however the pilgrim is so far from soloing a mega as one can be. And that doesn't even have much to do with tds. Originally by:** d'hofren I see no reason why TD's should serve a target to you on a platter? Recons are support ships remember? Yes and pilgrim is the worst support ship of all recons because it is bound to go into web range. And there tds dont work at all which was the point of my post. I just responded to someone saying they would work well in webrange. Don't know why you jump to so many stupid conclusions about what i do or intend to do with my pilgrim. If i cannot protect myself with the tds once in webrange (pilgrim is a webrange ship, remember?) then i certainly cannot protect my gang mates who have bigger sig radius, lower transversal etc(the damage dealers). So, why do i put my recon into a situation where it can get killed in 20sec flat with NO chance of ewar saving my ass even for a simple retreat and i can't even help my gang mates with it? Well i could go on but actually i am tired of people telling me falcon/rapier/arazu are on par with pilgrim when it comes to gang support. Those people have never flown a pilgrim or any recon for that matter and just have their own obvious agenda.
Berendas	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:23:00 - [89] Hey, I know this is a little off the Recon topic, but would a PVP Harbinger be better off using tank or gank, and if it can use both, is there a better one for soloing? Got a Harbinger a few days ago, been missioning w/ it since, but I wanna take it for a spin for some pew pew
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:38:00 - [90] Originally by: Berendas Hey, I know this is a little off the Recon topic, but would a PVP Harbinger be better off using tank or gank, and if it can use both, is there a better one for soloing? Got a Harbinger a few days ago, been missioning w/ it since, but I wanna take it for a spin for some pew pew Using a Harbinger to tank is a recipe for disaster. It has no bonus for tanking, and it doesn't have the cap to sustain firing lasers and running a rep. Your best bet imo, is it to plate it, use some trimarks, fit 3 HS IIs. ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.

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CCP fix for Amarr is in EVE Trinity - The Trinity of training either Caldari, Gallente or Minmatar!