| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Mitram
   |
Posted - 2004.03.08 17:44:00 -
[1]
Currently the megathron is overpowered. It gets the best tracking and the best dmg output over time. With high skills you get almost only excellent or well aimed shoots. Its damage output is superior to a well equiped Apoc. It has no cap problems due to the weapons it must use to get the dmg bonus.
Please discuss
|
Dirus
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 17:47:00 -
[2]
Using a blaster equiped megathron is indeed very powerful, yet it is very easy to counter it by keeping your distance, which isnt too hard.
A 425mm railgun megathron is also pretty powerful, but i dont think its any less powerful than a decently equiped tempest or apoc.
**********
Everyone deserves to die.
You go first.
|
Jarjar
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 18:02:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Jarjar on 08/03/2004 18:03:02
It's supposed to deal more damage than an apoc w/ lasers. It's supposed to get the best tracking and damage.
It has its downsides to be at 3k range, often with little or no defense, though...
|
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 18:08:00 -
[4]
I think the Tachyon was supposed to be the "equalizer" when it came to lasers vs hybrids, as Mega Beam and 425mm Railguns are fairly simular and the Megathron obviously has the best bonuses for hybrids hands down while Amarr ships have only a utility bonus for lasers.
Tachyon is designed to offer great DOT but be pretty unusable for any ship other than Amarr IMO.
Perhaps the nerf on lasers was too much.
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Dirus
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 18:29:00 -
[5]
Tachyons are more powerful than 425mms per gun, but since they take a lot more MW, you cant fit many. Mega Beams are better than Tachyons, as you can fit more, and do more overall damage.
**********
Everyone deserves to die.
You go first.
|
Chode Rizoum
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 18:34:00 -
[6]
are u insane ? the megathron has no chance with blasters if a raven or Tempest is hammering it on range
Centuria > whoot?
Centuria > you stalking me? :)
--
Nafri > then I a bird pooed on my head AND ON MY MEAL
--
http://www.subroc.net/teddybears/
|
Hematic
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 18:36:00 -
[7]
Can't say for the large guns, but for cruiser level, hybrids on a maller gives you better DPS + better range. Also since they have less grid reqs you get better overall ship DPS as well because 5 250 rails is easily mounted.
The Ship bonus of a maller is 5% reduction in cap needs for med. lasers. This bonus can't bring lasers even close to hybrid cap use. So unless you are NPC hunting mounting lasers on a Maller is not worth your time.
I have heard others making similar comments about 425s on an Apoc, since I haven't personally tested this I can't say. But it would stand to reason that it is a similar situation.
|
dalman
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 19:07:00 -
[8]
 Quote:
are u insane ? the megathron has no chance with blasters if a raven or Tempest is hammering it on range
ROFLMAO
Why the heck would a megathron with blasters stay at long range?
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Polux
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 19:24:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Polux on 08/03/2004 19:28:38
I would like to see the Dominix changed. It is by FAR the worst battleship when it comes to battle. One on one this ship doesn't stand a change against other battleships. If we compare it with the Megathron it has 2500m3 more drone space and 50 more CPU (one extra med). That is all. The Mega has better shield, Armor, turrets, launchers, pg, it has the space you need for 10 drones, it's faster, it's harder to target, it has better targeting range and speed. I WANT SOME LOVE FOR THE DOMINIX.
Change the bonus of it from 5% extra drone caps to 5-10% extra drone damage as it's special ability. That would make it real fine ship.
Yes I'm really angry about this. In my opinion this is the best looking ship ingame and it has a special place in my heart
|
TFH PAYN
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 19:37:00 -
[10]
Quote:
Currently the megathron is overpowered. It gets the best tracking and the best dmg output over time. With high skills you get almost only excellent or well aimed shoots. Its damage output is superior to a well equiped Apoc. It has no cap problems due to the weapons it must use to get the dmg bonus.
Please discuss
let me guess u don't fly a MegaThron
------------------------------------------------
..every house hold should have a Minmatar slave.. |
dalman
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 19:45:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Edited by: Polux on 08/03/2004 19:28:38
I would like to see the Dominix changed. It is by FAR the worst battleship when it comes to battle. One on one this ship doesn't stand a change against other battleships.
Yes I'm really angry about this. In my opinion this is the best looking ship ingame and it has a special place in my heart
1. Since it's a tier 1 ship it "should" loose against tier 2 ships.
2. I've never used a dominix.
STILL, I'm 100% sure I can log onto chaos, kit out a dominix, go some 1vs1 fights, and come out with a 5-1 kill ratio.
I would never use one on TQ though, as I see no point in flying a tier 1 ship if you have money for a tier 2, and the dominix is soooooooooo ugly (well, yea, the megathron is damn ugly too).
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 19:45:00 -
[12]
Quote:
Edited by: Polux on 08/03/2004 19:28:38
I would like to see the Dominix changed. It is by FAR the worst battleship when it comes to battle. One on one this ship doesn't stand a change against other battleships. If we compare it with the Megathron it has 2500m3 more drone space and 50 more CPU (one extra med). That is all. The Mega has better shield, Armor, turrets, launchers, pg, it has the space you need for 10 drones, it's faster, it's harder to target, it has better targeting range and speed. I WANT SOME LOVE FOR THE DOMINIX.
Change the bonus of it from 5% extra drone caps to 5-10% extra drone damage as it's special ability. That would make it real fine ship.
Yes I'm really angry about this. In my opinion this is the best looking ship ingame and it has a special place in my heart
Dominix needs the 350mm Railgun badly.. it hasn't the powergrid to really support many 425mm.. but it should do okay if you could mix 425mm/350mm..
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Admiral IceBlock
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 19:48:00 -
[13]
the megathron doesnt need a nerf, short range guns are suppose to be the most dmg dealing guns in eve and they are...
"We brake for nobody"
|
Polux
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 19:50:00 -
[14]
Quote:
1. Since it's a tier 1 ship it "should" loose against tier 2 ships.
Think about this. Apoc vs. Scorpion. the Apoc doesn't stand a change on winning that.
I know that tier 1 is suppose to be worse in some way. BUT GOD DAMN IT. IT SHOULD HAVE SOMTHING BETTER.
|
Admiral IceBlock
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 19:58:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Quote:
1. Since it's a tier 1 ship it "should" loose against tier 2 ships.
Think about this. Apoc vs. Scorpion. the Apoc doesn't stand a change on winning that.
I know that tier 1 is suppose to be worse in some way. BUT GOD DAMN IT. IT SHOULD HAVE SOMTHING BETTER.
yse it should. just couse its a higher lvl bs/cruiser/frig's doesnt mean it should be better in everything, the lower lvl bs/cruiser/frig's should also be good in something... that would be a perfect balance...
"We brake for nobody"
|
dalman
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 20:04:00 -
[16]
Quote:
Think about this. Apoc vs. Scorpion. the Apoc doesn't stand a change on winning that.
 LOL, really, I mean it. A scorpion is the WORST 1vs1 ship. It can't possibly kill another battleship. There's just no way to do that.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 20:07:00 -
[17]
Quote:
Quote:
Think about this. Apoc vs. Scorpion. the Apoc doesn't stand a change on winning that.
LOL, really, I mean it. A scorpion is the WORST 1vs1 ship. It can't possibly kill another battleship. There's just no way to do that.
It used to be able to.
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Jarjar
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 20:17:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Quote:
1. Since it's a tier 1 ship it "should" loose against tier 2 ships.
Think about this. Apoc vs. Scorpion. the Apoc doesn't stand a change on winning that.
I know that tier 1 is suppose to be worse in some way. BUT GOD DAMN IT. IT SHOULD HAVE SOMTHING BETTER.
If the scorp is EW, the apoc probably can't win... However, the apoc can't *lose* such a battle. If the scorp is tanked, a proper setup apoc will kill it.
|
dalman
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 20:21:00 -
[19]
Quote:
It used to be able to.
I specificly said "battleship". Someone running around with 8 civilian railguns, 4 ECM burst and 7 shield power relays doesn't count.
Neither does someone with 8 miners, 4 ship scanners and 7 damage controls. 
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 20:21:00 -
[20]
The missile nerf pretty much killed any Caldari ship that relys on missiles for its offense and has no bonus, (ie all cept Raven).
Missiles tend to do enough damage to knock out cruisers, obviously, but against battleships the 4 launchers on the Scorpion firing every 15 seconds + the time to reach target just isn't enough..
Anyways, this is off topic but I just wanted to add my two cents. :)
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 20:25:00 -
[21]
Quote:
Quote:
It used to be able to.
I specificly said "battleship". Someone running around with 8 civilian railguns, 4 ECM burst and 7 shield power relays doesn't count.
Neither does someone with 8 miners, 4 ship scanners and 7 damage controls.
Scorpion used to have enough firepower to take out other battleships. Hell my 4 250mm Prototype Gauss guns and 2 Heavy Launchers could easily take down battleships back in the day.
The missile ROF nerf, the vast improvements to defenses, with XL Shield Booster/Shield Amplifier/Cap Relays, ect killed the Scorpions damage potential.
Only the Raven has enough missile firepower to bring down another battleship IMO.
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
dalman
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 21:12:00 -
[22]
True, that's my point, Jim.
To the guy about the dominix.
I did overcome my fear about the looks of the dominix (if I zoom out enough I barely see it). Chaos was rebooted now, but I've done 2 fights in my dominix.
Won both.
1:st one against a Tempest.
2:nd against a Megathron.
And I only have gallente battleship lvl 3 and large hybrid lvl 4 on chaos.
The dom is in fact a very good ship for 1vs1. It's rather useless for fleet combat though. But then again, it's the cheapest battleship, so...
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Baun
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 23:28:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Baun on 08/03/2004 23:30:36
lol Jim. I used the exact same setup on my first BS, a Scorpion, and yea it had plenty of fire power to take out another BS and I didn't even need to fit a shield booster.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
|
Dura'Lorth
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 23:45:00 -
[24]
The ship itself dosent have tracking and damage, its the guns. The players skills come into effect also, gunnery lv, surgical strike, hybrid gun lv.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Merc for hire, anything withing the limits |
Baun
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 23:47:00 -
[25]
wrong, the ship gives a tracking and damage bonus. But yes, the way he stated it I can see why you might raise such an objection.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
|
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.03.08 23:48:00 -
[26]
The Scorpion has no trouble in taking on other ships one on one - it all depends on the circumstances. In these discussions you guys are always assuming every fight in EVE takes place under perfect circumstances, where both participants are prepared to fight and thus max out their damage dealing/tanking capabilities... well, this seldom is the case.
The Scorpion's greatest potential lies along the trafficked spacelanes, where it excels as a pirate or corsair vessel. I'd call being able to effectively web, warpscramble and destroy an in-transit (e.g) Megathron with two MWD's fitted winning a one on one fight versus another battleship. That's where it has it's role, and thus can't be discarded as 'useless' because it doesn't suit the situations you want it to suit.
You guys don't forget that when calling the Scorp weak in one on one battleship fights. Perhaps every ship shouldn't be perfectly balanced to every role there is?
|
Watson
|
Posted - 2004.03.09 01:04:00 -
[27]
Quote:
You guys don't forget that when calling the Scorp weak in one on one battleship fights. Perhaps every ship shouldn't be perfectly balanced to every role there is?
Anyone experimented with small fleet engagements? Such as 2v2 or 3v3 fights where one side is scorps only? For instance, how would 3 scorps do versus 3 blasterthons?
Just curious... |
Br0ke
|
Posted - 2004.03.09 03:10:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Quote:
You guys don't forget that when calling the Scorp weak in one on one battleship fights. Perhaps every ship shouldn't be perfectly balanced to every role there is?
Anyone experimented with small fleet engagements? Such as 2v2 or 3v3 fights where one side is scorps only? For instance, how would 3 scorps do versus 3 blasterthons?
Just curious...
3 Scorps would annhiliate 3 mega's. No contest, not even close.
I also disagree that the scorp can't kill. I choose not to fly one, and instead fly it's baby sibling the Blackbird. The only ships that don't fall to me are super tanks (rare) and experienced drone users.
If I were to fly a battleship, it would be the Scorpion without doubt or reservation until such time that EW is balanced.
------
Follow the Left Hand Path |
DigitalCommunist
|
Posted - 2004.03.09 03:43:00 -
[29]
people complain that the megathron is overpowered when it is in fact balanced very well
lets use logic for a sec,
shorter range - more damage
longer range - less damage
if you let a blaster megathron get close enough to use its guns on you, then you deserve to die and you should congradulate the pilot for having the balls to lunge himself like that
close range setups are only for the really brave or the really skilled, because you are putting everything on the line, you are getting within warp scramble range, webifier range, neutralizer range, drone range, smartbomb range.. and not to mention missles have NO PROBLEMS hitting you that close, being that close only helps the pilot kill you quicker
so yeah, the megathron is uber in close range, as its meant to be, but there are tons of ways to counter it 1v1, and in most situations the megathron pilot is flying a suicide run because you'll always have some buddies 10km+ away from him to shoot him down before he kills you in real situations
anyone who uses a blaster megathron on TQ where the odds are not stacked and there are multiple enemies, has serious balls
don't bring a tachyon to a knife fight
personally i find close range combat more interesting. you get to see more of the action instead of long range lasers pecking away at each other, its always a rush because anything could go wrong, and the rewards for pulling it off correctly are great. The downside is that you're bound to lose your ship sooner or later doing this often enough, how good you are depends how often you'll lose it
ps: large hybrid 5, currently on gallente bs lvl 5 
pps: there seems to be a lot of megathron junkies on chaos, but when it comes to TQ not so many of you would have the balls to risk a real ship on stunts like that 
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2004.03.09 08:10:00 -
[30]
Dalman is correct. The minute you underestimate the Dominix is the minute you lose your battleship.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.03.09 08:22:00 -
[31]
Ý find megatron rather easy... almost killed Blaster tron on armor tankked typhoon whit MWD
--- then i got disconekt from state serwer  when twit launched all his drones and i lost...
moral lesson of story: if u are loosing, try to lag enemy out by all means nececery
(i whuld have won it!!!  )
anyway - Blastertron must sacrifise lot on defence to achive enought damage/speed
1 on 1 its good.. in fleetgangs it got r0yaly owned
and rails....well i dont know.. i had rail-tron fiaring at me from diferent ranges, didint realy impress me by damage 
i still prefer Tempest and Raven as damage dealer
-------------------------------------------
|
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.03.09 08:37:00 -
[32]
Seems you are grasping for reasons why you lost Siddy. Freud would be very happy :)
Drones weren't a means of lagging you because I was losing, they were one of the primary weapons. And it worked good too, you died. The hard part in a Megathron is to get in close, but after you had pounded me for a bit and I did get within desired range, you went down like a spruce to a tank.
I told you even before we started shooting each other to accept defeat. And you did. Can you please do it after you've fought as well? Thank you! 
|
Mitram
|
Posted - 2004.03.09 11:30:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Mitram on 09/03/2004 11:31:37
I understand that megathron needs dmg/tracking bonus for blasters (the short range weapons). I don't understand why megathron gets these dmg/tracking bonus for 425's (the long range weapons)
Maybe blasters should have their own category instead of mixing them with long range hybrid weapons.
|
Marcus Aurelius
|
Posted - 2004.03.09 11:52:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Marcus Aurelius on 09/03/2004 11:54:09
Well, imo, the bonuses are ok atm.
80-95% of all megathron users fly with rails, not blasters.
I post blaster set-ups here too, but in reality rarely use one  . Now accept that fact first.
Then look at 425 rail dot compared to 1400mm and tach/megabeam dot. Also compare the tanking/defense capabilities of the ships using those: Tempest and Apoc.
At the end things are well ablanced at the moment. Damage versus taking or other use of cap and medslots is pretty balanced. Tempest is probably nr1, mega nr2 and apoc nr3 when using the race specific weapons.
But as soon as an apoc user trains up projectiles the apoc gets to be number 2 instead of the megathron. The enormous cap on that ship, used just for defense, offsets the lesser damage versus rails on a mega.
Now other use of cap and medslots then shieldtanking makes the whole picture different again. But in the end, at longer range, the tempest stays nr1, with apoc and mega pretty well balanced.
|
shakaZ XV
|
Posted - 2004.03.09 11:57:00 -
[35]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
1. Since it's a tier 1 ship it "should" loose against tier 2 ships.
Think about this. Apoc vs. Scorpion. the Apoc doesn't stand a change on winning that.
I know that tier 1 is suppose to be worse in some way. BUT GOD DAMN IT. IT SHOULD HAVE SOMTHING BETTER.
If the scorp is EW, the apoc probably can't win... However, the apoc can't *lose* such a battle. If the scorp is tanked, a proper setup apoc will kill it.
hmm... not with lasers it wont (2x EM + 1x thermal wards, XL + boost amp > lasers...standard tank scorp) so i'd love to hear what u would consider a "proper" setup then :P
=========================
One small step for me, one giant leap for ALT-kind. |
Beringe
|
Posted - 2004.03.09 11:59:00 -
[36]
Quote:
LOL, really, I mean it. A scorpion is the WORST 1vs1 ship. It can't possibly kill another battleship. There's just no way to do that.
Large energy neutralizers?
I know that works on a raven, but I'm not sure the scorp can sustain the cap they need (what with only 4 low slots).
-------------------------------------------
"My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
Outcastino
|
Posted - 2004.03.09 12:08:00 -
[37]
Yesterday on chaos in a big ffa, a scorp, a raven and a typhoon were left, scorp and a raven were both pounding the typhoona for 10 minutes before it finnaly died out. Then the raven kicked the scorps ass. There you go for missile firepower :P
--------------------------------------------
I love the smell off cookies in the morning, smells like victory! |
hellwarrior
|
Posted - 2004.03.09 12:13:00 -
[38]
The dominix can shield tank and has a cap recharge to back it up with 7 lows. gg. 5 mid 7 low, needs like 500-750 more grid to give it a 'creative' grid amount.
|
Dreez
|
Posted - 2004.03.09 15:45:00 -
[39]
Dont touch my Megathron ! !  .
'Trying to argue logically with Evol is like trying to teach a pig to dance. It only makes you look foolish and really annoys the pig ' - Duke Droklar [OC]
|
Mitram
|
Posted - 2004.03.09 17:10:00 -
[40]
Quote:
Edited by: Marcus Aurelius on 09/03/2004 11:54:09
Then look at 425 rail dot compared to 1400mm and tach/megabeam dot. Also compare the tanking/defense capabilities of the ships using those: Tempest and Apoc.
And thats the point. The megathron gets a 25% bonus on damage. A megathron can fit 6 425 and 2 dmg mods easily plus the usual battle mods. The tach gives 25% more dmg for 28% more cap than the mega beam over time. There is no way to fit 6 tach plus 2 dmg mods plus the usual battle mods. (or even 5 tach plus 2 dmg mods .... without runing out of cap very fast)
So lets assume that 425 and mega do equal dmg. You can equip 6 mega and 2 dmg mods plus the usual battle mods barely on an apoc. So the difference between a megathron and an apoc is 25% less dmg and 25% less tracking for the apoc, not counting the huge cap usage difference.
I think you can do some similar calculation against a Tempest. You always get the 25% bonus of the megathorn as an addon, only that for a Tempest the range advantage can be counted too.
|
Amy Foxx
|
Posted - 2004.03.09 17:26:00 -
[41]
Quote:
Currently the megathron is overpowered. It gets the best tracking and the best dmg output over time. With high skills you get almost only excellent or well aimed shoots. Its damage output is superior to a well equiped Apoc. It has no cap problems due to the weapons it must use to get the dmg bonus.
Please discuss
I think someone got owned by a 'blasterthorn'
|
Lilani Kuzma
|
Posted - 2004.03.09 21:46:00 -
[42]
I'm a megathron user so naturally i dont want them to be changed but thats not the point.
The way i see it every eve player who has a battleship wants their setup/ship to be the best so they'll moan for their ship to be given love or get other ships nerfed/ or get their weapons boosted other weapons nerfed etc etc etc...
While there are some valid points that are made on these forums which are genuinally good points (and ccp takes these in) its posts like this just waste ccp time cause if the bonus' get taken away then everyone's gonna complain (including me  ) for them to come back (remember when rails were so awful no-one used them?).
Quote:
"Don't use a Cannon to kill a Mosquito"
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |