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Terminal Insanity Convex Enterprises Unprovoked Aggression 222	Posted - 2012.02.02 02:30:00 - [1] - Quote Then why dont you elect pro-highsec CSM's instead? In the past years i've seen hundreds of posts claiming lowsec is the minority, and CCP should be focusing their updates, patches and rules in favor of the highsec 'majority'. Right now, there are many posts talking about how CSM elections are 'unfair' because Mittani will probably be re-elected and continue his reign of terrorizing the highsec population. But, where does the logic come from? If you're being out-voted, that should indicate that YOU are the minority, no? Its a hard position to be in, when you believe in one thing, and facts point at another.
Corina Jarr Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built 555	Posted - 2012.02.02 02:32:00 - [2] - Quote Hisec is the majority of characters. Not the majority of those who vote. Also a large number of high sec characters are alts for those in low and null.
Jacob Stiller The Scope Gallente Federation 1117	Posted - 2012.02.02 02:33:00 - [3] - Quote Terminal Insanity wrote: Then why dont you elect pro-highsec CSM's instead? In the past years i've seen hundreds of posts claiming lowsec is the minority, and CCP should be focusing their updates, patches and rules in favor of the highsec 'majority'. Right now, there are many posts talking about how CSM elections are 'unfair' because Mittani will probably be re-elected and continue his reign of terrorizing the highsec population. But, where does the logic come from? If you're being out-voted, that should indicate that YOU are the minority, no? Its a hard position to be in, when you believe in one thing, and facts point at another. Voting blocs. Null sec is divided into a handful of large ones while High sec is divided into innumerable small ones.
Alara IonStorm 1521	Posted - 2012.02.02 02:34:00 - [4] - Quote They can win but some People don't vote.
Terminal Insanity Convex Enterprises Unprovoked Aggression 222	Posted - 2012.02.02 02:37:00 - [5] - Quote Jacob Stiller wrote: Terminal Insanity wrote: Then why dont you elect pro-highsec CSM's instead? In the past years i've seen hundreds of posts claiming lowsec is the minority, and CCP should be focusing their updates, patches and rules in favor of the highsec 'majority'. Right now, there are many posts talking about how CSM elections are 'unfair' because Mittani will probably be re-elected and continue his reign of terrorizing the highsec population. But, where does the logic come from? If you're being out-voted, that should indicate that YOU are the minority, no? Its a hard position to be in, when you believe in one thing, and facts point at another. Voting blocs. Null sec is divided into a handful of large ones while High sec is divided into innumerable small ones. Do something about it then? I mean, other then whine and beg for CCP to place your candidates by hand into the CSM
Serge Bastana GWA Corp 86	Posted - 2012.02.02 02:42:00 - [6] - Quote Terminal Insanity wrote: Jacob Stiller wrote: Terminal Insanity wrote: Then why dont you elect pro-highsec CSM's instead? In the past years i've seen hundreds of posts claiming lowsec is the minority, and CCP should be focusing their updates, patches and rules in favor of the highsec 'majority'. Right now, there are many posts talking about how CSM elections are 'unfair' because Mittani will probably be re-elected and continue his reign of terrorizing the highsec population. But, where does the logic come from? If you're being out-voted, that should indicate that YOU are the minority, no? Its a hard position to be in, when you believe in one thing, and facts point at another. Voting blocs. Null sec is divided into a handful of large ones while High sec is divided into innumerable small ones. Do something about it then? I mean, other then whine and beg for CCP to place your candidates by hand into the CSM I think the term 'herding cats' is applicable. in other MMO's stupid people are annoying. In EVE they are a valuable resource /facebrick for those times when /facepalm just isn't enough
Karn Dulake Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance 326	Posted - 2012.02.02 02:44:00 - [7] - Quote If Highsec is Majority.... let me try Why do women have driving licences ...... when there is no road between the kitchen and the bedroom I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Shazzam Vokanavom Hedion University Amarr Empire 40	Posted - 2012.02.02 02:44:00 - [8] - Quote Terminal Insanity wrote: Jacob Stiller wrote: Terminal Insanity wrote: Then why dont you elect pro-highsec CSM's instead? In the past years i've seen hundreds of posts claiming lowsec is the minority, and CCP should be focusing their updates, patches and rules in favor of the highsec 'majority'. Right now, there are many posts talking about how CSM elections are 'unfair' because Mittani will probably be re-elected and continue his reign of terrorizing the highsec population. But, where does the logic come from? If you're being out-voted, that should indicate that YOU are the minority, no? Its a hard position to be in, when you believe in one thing, and facts point at another. Voting blocs. Null sec is divided into a handful of large ones while High sec is divided into innumerable small ones. Do something about it then? I mean, other then whine and beg for CCP to place your candidates by hand into the CSM How shall we vote oh wise and deserved slave master, please tell us what to do, we are totally incapable of making any discernment for ourselves. And sorry for distrubing your special snowflake privaledges for talking about it on a public forum. It will never happen again. Funny however that you place so much emphasis on regional bias, rather than a candidates manifesto ideas and beliefs?
Alara IonStorm 1521	Posted - 2012.02.02 02:47:00 - [9] - Quote Karn Dulake wrote: Why do women have driving licences ...... when there is no road between the kitchen and the bedroom Sir try to remain calm you have fallen into a time Vortex. I can get you out but their is no one around to get me a Sandwich and I don't have a license to drive to Subway. It may take some time.
Terminal Insanity Convex Enterprises Unprovoked Aggression 223	Posted - 2012.02.02 03:03:00 - [10] - Quote Shazzam Vokanavom wrote: How shall we vote oh wise and deserved slave master, please tell us what to do, we are totally incapable of making any discernment for ourselves. And sorry for distrubing your special snowflake privaledges for talking about it on a public forum. It will never happen again. Funny however that you place so much emphasis on regional bias, rather than a candidates manifesto ideas and beliefs? Its not about regional bias, it is about their ideas. The thing is, the low/nullsec people agree with low/nullsec people.. so low/nullsec people vote for... you guessed it... low/null candidates. Not because of their regional location, but because they live here, know the area, know the problems, and have detailed what they believe are the problems, and most of low/null agrees with them. if highsec is unable to elect anyone, that is because they; 1) dont know what they want 2) dont vote 3) dont agree on anything. Which is quite understandable, when you consider what nullsec is: where eve gameplay really starts. and what highsec is: a training ground, similar to guildWars Pre-Sear / Singleplayer Mode Highsec people are not as involved in the game, many dont even know about CSM, let alone make themselves informed about the candidates. They rail against things like NEX with completely baseless accusations, even in the face of official CCP quotes. Highsec doesnt even understand the basic founding principals of eve: its raw brutal unforgiving freedom. Highsec seeks to eliminate or nerf; cloaking, jump bridges, capitals, anything they dont play with or use themselves. In short; they're playing the wrong game.
Jacob Stiller The Scope Gallente Federation 1117	Posted - 2012.02.02 03:06:00 - [11] - Quote Terminal Insanity wrote: Jacob Stiller wrote: Terminal Insanity wrote: Then why dont you elect pro-highsec CSM's instead? In the past years i've seen hundreds of posts claiming lowsec is the minority, and CCP should be focusing their updates, patches and rules in favor of the highsec 'majority'. Right now, there are many posts talking about how CSM elections are 'unfair' because Mittani will probably be re-elected and continue his reign of terrorizing the highsec population. But, where does the logic come from? If you're being out-voted, that should indicate that YOU are the minority, no? Its a hard position to be in, when you believe in one thing, and facts point at another. Voting blocs. Null sec is divided into a handful of large ones while High sec is divided into innumerable small ones. Do something about it then? I mean, other then whine and beg for CCP to place your candidates by hand into the CSM Oh, don't get the wrong idea. I have no interest in the CSM or its election other than to sell my votes to the highest bidder. Just pointing out the fallacy in your logic.
Shazzam Vokanavom Hedion University Amarr Empire 40	Posted - 2012.02.02 03:08:00 - [12] - Quote Terminal Insanity wrote: "A lot of generalisation, assumptions and opinonated claims in the obvious attempt to derail and marginalise High sec pilots". Fixed it for you.
Bienator II madmen of the skies 558	Posted - 2012.02.02 03:13:00 - [13] - Quote in null, somebody can say in alliance chat "vote for me" and he is in the CSM. in high sec that won't work since its far more fragmented. a new bounty system for eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked
Terminal Insanity Convex Enterprises Unprovoked Aggression 225	Posted - 2012.02.02 03:38:00 - [14] - Quote Bienator II wrote: in null, somebody can say in alliance chat "vote for me" and he is in the CSM. in high sec that won't work since its far more fragmented. Ank proved that theory wrong. She managed to troll and fearmonger all of highsec into voting for her, and she won The problem is the highsec candidates just dont have anything to run on, other then "nerf cloaks" etc... or they violate the NDA =p Simple fact is, low/null is where all the 'real' eve players are. I know that sounds bad, but its the truth. Its where all the long-term players find themselves once they get tired of killing Angel Extraveganza for the 800th time
Serene Repose Perkone Caldari State 211	Posted - 2012.02.02 03:59:00 - [15] - Quote There are a handful of problems with high sec as a voting bloc. First and foremost, yes it is by far the majority. Second, it's so damned HUGE. Lo and null sec (especially) residents tend to be in corps that are in alliances. There's a ready organizational tool, corp chat, and CEOs can commiserate easily, and more readily especially where concerns increases of power and influence. Lacking this, the sheer size of high sec becomes a formidable obstacle. A way around this might be to have members of a campaign committee in the various NPC corp chats. You could reach an average of 200 people per campaigner that way. However, to reach the entire NPC corp, one would have to practically live in corp chat 24/7 for weeks, possibly months. It's doable, but would require considerable effort. To truly represent hi sec, you can't leave out the high sec corps, and honey there are a ton of those. It's hard to determine which are active, and which are not, so targeting specific ones is a bit on the hit or miss side. Along with this, it's likely player corps will have more specific issues which concern them, and will likely expect consideration beyond what the average player in an NPC corp would expect. (One hand washes the other, so to speak.) Yet, it's doable, but would take some months organizing a mailing list, ginning up material for spots on websites, or membership mailouts. Despite conventional wisdom, even if it's hi sec, it isn't homogenious. Region differs from region. Constellation from constellation, and in some areas systems (even next to each other) differ from systems. To understand what you're representing you'd have to either acquaint yourself with the issues of the areas involved, or narrow down the areas you claim to represent to those you know something about. (Who's got the icebelts? Who's got the markets? Who's next to BOSENA, for instance.) Again, this is doable, but we're starting to see the need for a competant staff about now... Yes, you can try to catch traffic in the major market hubs. Using local to toss in campaign notices in local at Jita means fighting the atomic chat scroll. Rens isn't nearly as bad, and someone might have luck spending time there as a crossroads in Minmatar areas. Amarr is not as bad as Jita by a long shot, but it would still present itself as a challenge. What you're after is NAME RECOGNITION. There's usually quite a slate of candidates. You want people looking for your name on the list...including how it's SPELLED, or close. Repitition is the rule of thumb, without being boring, or (especially) annoying. Being in local you're going to be asked questions, and having ready answers that don't sound like spur of the moment manufactured BS would take some preparation. Dropping in and chatting off the cuff might do more to make one look foolish, than useful. All of this would take organization of a committee, and the dedicated work of a few individuals that would consume hours a day, every day of the week, months in advance all the way up to election day, when during THAT week (or so) "getting out the vote" would become essential. Sure, you're a good idea for CSM. Getting people to the website to cast that vote - more a matter of jarring memories in our digital world - and again without being annoying, is that priority. GIven all this, losing looms large as a possibility. It may take a couple of attempts to realize success. But, if done well, folks will begin to learn who you are, that you care, understand and are prepared to represent them in a true democratic fashion, rather than the well-known oligarchical fashion the CSM is run with today. tl;dr? Then, don't try to run for office. PS Those that tell you how easy this is, and how successful someone was...fearmongering....check the numbers of how many votes were actually cast, and how many these "winners" actually got to win...compared to the alleged size of the player base...peanuts...a mere pittance...this could be GOOD. Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold.
Famble Three's a Crowd 279	Posted - 2012.02.02 04:21:00 - [16] - Quote What percentage of the subscribers ever visits the forums? I don't know of course but id venture a guess and say less than 1 in 10. (Who can blame them either? GD has an awful, awful community) What kind of person visits the forums? The veterans. What type of player statistically ventures out of hi-sec? Veterans. As such I think it's fair to surmise that the vast, vast majority of players are in hi-sec. They can't win because they're casual and/or don't care. Guess what sucks for many here? Their money is the same as yours and as such, **** them off and they leave. Quietly. Their silence is deafening. If anyone ever looks at you and says, "Hold my beer, watch this,"-á you're probably going to want to pay attention.
Karn Dulake Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance 328	Posted - 2012.02.02 04:30:00 - [17] - Quote Famble wrote: What percentage of the subscribers ever visits the forums? I don't know of course but id venture a guess and say less than 1 in 10. (Who can blame them either? GD has an awful, awful community) What kind of person visits the forums? The veterans. What type of player statistically ventures out of hi-sec? Veterans. As such I think it's fair to surmise that the vast, vast majority of players are in hi-sec. They can't win because they're casual and/or don't care. Guess what sucks for many here? Their money is the same as yours and as such, **** them off and they leave. Quietly. Their silence is deafening. i know more than 100 people in this game and none of them ever come to this forum. im the only one and i only come here to troll. most of them could not care less about the politics of the game I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Captain Torgo The Geedunk Expedition 2	Posted - 2012.02.02 04:37:00 - [18] - Quote Highsec is the majority of the EvE population, but nullsec is the most organized. Nullsec alliances can get the word out about CSM voting rather easily due to the necessity of organization. In highsec there are hundreds upon hundreds of corporations who've never even heard of CSM. They barely communicate if at all with each other. Getting the message out to them is a major challenge.
ThisIsntMyMain Republic University Minmatar Republic 78	Posted - 2012.02.02 04:51:00 - [19] - Quote Terminal Insanity wrote: Then why dont you elect pro-highsec CSM's instead? In the past years i've seen hundreds of posts claiming lowsec is the minority, and CCP should be focusing their updates, patches and rules in favor of the highsec 'majority'. Right now, there are many posts talking about how CSM elections are 'unfair' because Mittani will probably be re-elected and continue his reign of terrorizing the highsec population. But, where does the logic come from? If you're being out-voted, that should indicate that YOU are the minority, no? Its a hard position to be in, when you believe in one thing, and facts point at another. Because most of the CSM haters who post on this forum about how "fail" the CSM is because its "dominated by null sec blocks" are EXACTLY the same idiots who were posting 12 months ago that the CSM is "fail" because CCP doesn't listen to it anyway, and the way to "fix" the CSM is to screw around with the voting system so that someone they don't personally like doesn't get in.

CCP Spitfire C C P C C P Alliance 1315	Posted - 2012.02.02 06:56:00 - [20] - Quote Offtopic posts removed. CCP Spitfire \| Russian Community Coordinator @ccp_spitfire

Akrasjel Lanate Naquatech Conglomerate 558	Posted - 2012.02.02 09:29:00 - [21] - Quote Corina Jarr wrote: Hisec is the majority of characters. Not the majority of those who vote. Also a large number of high sec characters are alts for those in low and null. And we would need to organize and have "good" candidates
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 243	Posted - 2012.02.02 09:37:00 - [22] - Quote If this was WoW, how much would The Barrens (Durotar) / Elwynn Forest starter area players matter in their requests of being equal to maxed level ones? Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
fgft Athonille Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 12	Posted - 2012.02.02 11:06:00 - [23] - Quote being a highsec player, you should know this entering password into computer requires too much brain function that your average highsec player has in critically short supply so must be limited to as few instances as possible. Password1 isnt getting easier to type
Vera Algaert Republic University Minmatar Republic 31	Posted - 2012.02.02 11:18:00 - [24] - Quote If I were a high-sec CSM candidate I would hire the Phaser Inc guys to do my marketing.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 2741	Posted - 2012.02.02 11:45:00 - [25] - Quote Bienator II wrote: in null, somebody can say in alliance chat "vote for me" and he is in the CSM. haha really? I suggest you get an alt into a nullsec alliance and try this for yourself Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Jaroslav Unwanted Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1325	Posted - 2012.02.02 11:49:00 - [26] - Quote why would we, i am quite content with CSM stance on high sec.. which is.. "We dont give a ****" "it is an CCP kinder-garden" So ? There are people with some serious issues .. "pro PvPers" afraid to take on bigger fishes in null crying for removing NPC corps And then there are people with some serious issues... "pro safety" afraid of just about anything crying for making hihg sec safe all the time for everyone.. Both stances are bad... CSM stances are good. "Hans for FW CSM" never met him, never flied with him but i like his style and common sense/dignity/civil appearance.
Kewland Ozom Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2012.02.02 12:09:00 - [27] - Quote Eve is, and has always been, a private club of null sec corps. Whoever thinks different is just foolling him/herself. You want to be part of the action? Join the club (if you are allowed. Most probably not, you carebear!). The rest (high sec) are allowed there to mow the lawn, clean the dishes, and watch others have fun. When null sec players need to disrupt incursions in high sec you are just seeing how much of a private club the game is. (And for the record, as long as it's a valid tactic, I don't care, I'm not an incursion runner). But please, don't start the risk/reward arguments. It's rather "it was hard to me, so it must be hard to you" problem. So, if you are a carebear, you're not allowed to "play". If CCP gives you a way to be part of the game, it will be obliterated and it will be demanded that it be nerfed. No, you can't join the club. And we CAN influence CCP using the CSM, you don't know what you're doing, you carebear! The sooner you know what kind of game it is, the better for you. At least you'll know the rules, and can adapt or leave. "Not a game for wusses" Jeez, you have to have some nerve to say that publicly. I almost fell off the chair when I read that. If that's what the CSM is good for, I say get rid of it.
Kewland Ozom Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2012.02.02 12:11:00 - [28] - Quote Sorry, double post
Shazzam Vokanavom Hedion University Amarr Empire 42	Posted - 2012.02.02 12:15:00 - [29] - Quote Kewland Ozom wrote: The sooner you know what kind of game it is, the better for you. At least you'll know the rules, and can adapt or leave. Or you could not subscribe to these robotic attempts to control the masses with a prescribed projection of how you choose to play in this "Sandbox".
Kewland Ozom Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2012.02.02 12:20:00 - [30] - Quote Shazzam Vokanavom wrote: Or you could not subscribe to these robotic attempts to control the masses with a prescribed projection of how you choose to play in this "Sandbox". Well, it's clear that null sec corps will do what's in their hands to turn things in their favor. After all, they're used to play with tactics, and are better organized than the myriad of small and one people corps of high sec.
Shazzam Vokanavom Hedion University Amarr Empire 42	Posted - 2012.02.02 12:45:00 - [31] - Quote Kewland Ozom wrote: Shazzam Vokanavom wrote: Or you could not subscribe to these robotic attempts to control the masses with a prescribed projection of how you choose to play in this "Sandbox". Well, it's clear that null sec corps will do what's in their hands to turn things in their favor. After all, they're used to play with tactics, and are better organized than the myriad of small and one people corps of high sec. Well thank you for being so captain obvious on your stance. Repetition isnt going to change my view though, a reasonable argument might. I take a stance that EvE is perfectly capable of catering a number of different playstyles and shouldn't be just "funneled" or simply limited by those who wish to marginalise opinion for their own ends. Especially when there is significant representation from all those "paying" players towards those interests. Apart from that as a personal view of both philanthropy in terms of game development that helps everyone on an equal footing aswell as simply seeing the possibility that the game is not the rightfull ownership of anyone over anothers. In this sense I'm capable of allowing for multiple playstyles, "EVEN" and this is the clincher, "EVEN" playstyles I might not personally agree with. The biggest determining factor for that is not the null sec power blocs, but CCP's bank balance.

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