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Ground Combat: A Possible Next Phase for EVE

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Biolaja Tista Gallente Soulbound. Tenth Legion	Posted - 2007.12.02 16:42:00 - [1] Ambulation is non-combative due to the whole "spoon effect." But the World of Darkness Online, which is being watched by the White Wolf fanbase, will allow it. Since EVE Online is the top Sci-Fi MMO, IF it had an additional 100% optional component, it would be even cooler: ground combat. If planets will be walkable in a few years, what about a possible "ground combat" portion in order to compete with Tabula Rasa and other games? I'm not saying that the system should be in place, I'm just saying that I personally would enjoy it. But it definitely would be 100% optional. People could even spend their entire game-lives in ground combat on one planet, ignoring the space travel completely. Also, combat isn't the only application: player or npc cities, player housing, market places, spaceports, cybersex (maybe not), player armies, etc. are also possible. Besides adding a huge amount of realism (not everyone in the universe flies a ship), it would also open the game up to a whole new audience: people sick of fantasy but still like planets, etc. What do you think? I'm pretty sure most of you hate the idea.
ColdheartedKilla	Posted - 2007.12.02 16:51:00 - [2] sure as long as it doesnt take place EVE. CCP should do a spin off game for that sort of thing. Unless of course there are millions online instead of thousands at any one time.
Shimmera M. Corp Academy M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.12.02 16:52:00 - [3] This is what I would like to see. Perhaps even a capsule-based mechanized warfare model, and the ability for major powers to administrate over planet populations.
Kharadran Sullath Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.02 16:52:00 - [4] Edited by: Kharadran Sullath on 02/12/2007 16:52:30 Well... maybe not the cybersex, I've nothing personal against it mind you , but the rest is from my point of view interesting and I would most likely support it if done right. However, you are about to get eaten alive by half of the active posters on these forums. Edit: Or so I thought? ------ Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull** and troll. If you are deaf**, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
Anell Minmatar	Posted - 2007.12.02 17:00:00 - [5] To me Eve really isn't about FPS style combat. I'll be very happy when they add full bodied characters and the ability to walk around space stations because I think it will add a lot to the scale of the spaceships. But I am not really interested in an FPS style game. When I want that I play Unreal or something similar.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.12.02 17:03:00 - [6] Don't hate the idea. Actually a space game that includes every aspect would be cool, theoretically. Practically there is only limited dev power available and all those new features would add to the complexity, also require maintenance in the future and the whole project would get more and more difficult to organize. Some players would like to see space combat improved, others ground combat, others economy in space or on planet, others player housings ... And someone needs to keep it all together in a way that it stays one consistent game, where everything works well together.
Biolaja Tista Gallente Soulbound. Tenth Legion	Posted - 2007.12.02 17:09:00 - [7] Thanks for the wonderful reviews. I would like to reiterate that this system would be 100% optional for players, and can be a viable alternative to space travel and vice versa. And crossover is also possible for those whole play both. Kinda like SWG, but infinitely superior in every possible way. A similar (in spirit) system exists for Games Workshop games, in which players often play Battlefleet Gothic (a space-based tabletop combat game) in anticipation of ground combat in Warhammer 40K (a ground-based tabletop combat game).
Anell Minmatar	Posted - 2007.12.02 17:19:00 - [8] The reason why I don't like the idea of ground combat really has nothing to do with it being option but rather for the reasons listed by Plutoinum. In a perfect would resources would be endless. But we don't live in that world and in reality the challenges of making a good ground combat system that exists in the same game with a good space combat system are too large to be surmounted in my opinion. There have been a lot of games that have tried to do this before and in my view they have all failed. The closest it has ever come to being a reality is in some games that allow for air combat and ground combat at the same time. I would point to the original two Tribes as the best examples since they have large outdoor areas. And anyone who has played those games knows that the air combat was pretty lacking, it was mostly just air vs ground rather then air vs air.
Jose Quevo Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.12.02 17:42:00 - [9] I am perfectly happy with station-walking. I don't think that planet-walking is a serious possibility for EVE, understanding the game's already massive in scale. If we talk about 'dream MMOs with infinite resources', I would like it to be joystick-based when in flight, have both station and ship-walking, planet-walking and non-instanced planets ( you would have to approach / land manually on planets and so on ). But yeah, like somebody already mentioned, this is reality - and EVE is as close to my fantasy as I am going to get for now ( and perhaps forever ). ----
Montague Zooma Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.02 17:43:00 - [10] It might be interesting if conquering an Outpost or planet required ground combat...breach the defenses with your fleet and then send troops in to secure it.

Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2007.12.02 19:20:00 - [11] Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 02/12/2007 19:21:02 Originally by: Biolaja Tista Ambulation is non-combative due to the whole "spoon effect." But the World of Darkness Online, which is being watched by the White Wolf fanbase, will allow it. Since EVE Online is the top Sci-Fi MMO, IF it had an additional 100% optional component, it would be even cooler: ground combat. If planets will be walkable in a few years, what about a possible "ground combat" portion in order to compete with Tabula Rasa and other games? I'm not saying that the system should be in place, I'm just saying that I personally would enjoy it. But it definitely would be 100% optional. People could even spend their entire game-lives in ground combat on one planet, ignoring the space travel completely. Also, combat isn't the only application: player or npc cities, player housing, market places, spaceports, cybersex (maybe not), player armies, etc. are also possible. Besides adding a huge amount of realism (not everyone in the universe flies a ship), it would also open the game up to a whole new audience: people sick of fantasy but still like planets, etc. What do you think? I'm pretty sure most of you hate the idea. Ground combat would be great, as long they steer as much as possible away from the First Person Shooter and twitchy finger syndrome. I hate those games, and thats not why I signed up playing EVE for. But I agree that terraforming and inhabitationing planets would be bloody fantastic! Just as long they bring the tactical features we have come to love in EVE also to the ground part! I dont want EVE to be the new doom or counter strike or whatever the names of those FPS games are!!! And ofcource, the current controls should be used for the ground too! Just as much as I hate FPS games I hate the FPS controls! Sarah McTeef: You all should really try and stay on topic. Which when I last checked, was my grocery list
Dingo Skullcrusher	Posted - 2007.12.02 19:46:00 - [12] I think PVE content would be very interesting on planet surfaces. Like for instance, discovering old ruins of civiliations, discovering star maps with locations of moon minerals or a huge stash of valuables which have to be hauled up into a waiting industrial ship. so many possibilities there. As for PVP, don't know how well this would fit into eve and its skill system. Maybe an atmospheric fight, which is quite different from in-space combat.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.02 20:06:00 - [13] Originally by: Biolaja Tista Ambulation is non-combative due to the whole "spoon effect." But the World of Darkness Online, which is being watched by the White Wolf fanbase, will allow it. Since EVE Online is the top Sci-Fi MMO, IF it had an additional 100% optional component, it would be even cooler: ground combat. If planets will be walkable in a few years, what about a possible "ground combat" portion in order to compete with Tabula Rasa and other games? I'm not saying that the system should be in place, I'm just saying that I personally would enjoy it. But it definitely would be 100% optional. People could even spend their entire game-lives in ground combat on one planet, ignoring the space travel completely. Also, combat isn't the only application: player or npc cities, player housing, market places, spaceports, cybersex (maybe not), player armies, etc. are also possible. Besides adding a huge amount of realism (not everyone in the universe flies a ship), it would also open the game up to a whole new audience: people sick of fantasy but still like planets, etc. What do you think? I'm pretty sure most of you hate the idea. I'm all in favour of this. The potential is amazing and I hope CCP do it. I want flight-sim style atmospheric combat too. Someone mentioned that pod-pilots don't do walking around on mudballs. Quite right: they shouln't demean themselves. Give us an extra alt-slot or two specifically for ground based stuff I say... a whole different skill tree (and simultaneous training for those alt slots), different equipment, the lot. Apart from anything else, this would be a clean slate, and a chance for new players to not be overshadowed by older players. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.02 20:09:00 - [14] Originally by: Anell To me Eve really isn't about FPS style combat. I'll be very happy when they add full bodied characters and the ability to walk around space stations because I think it will add a lot to the scale of the spaceships. But I am not really interested in an FPS style game. When I want that I play Unreal or something similar. I'm thinking more System Shock than Unreal. Caldari planets should look like Bladerunner! CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.02 20:11:00 - [15] Edited by: Malcanis on 02/12/2007 20:11:44 EDT: dupe CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Magnus Nordir	Posted - 2007.12.02 20:16:00 - [16] Originally by: Dingo Skullcrusher Maybe an atmospheric fight, which is quite different from in-space combat. Not a problem, since currently all EVE spacecraft behave as if they were in atmosphere anyway - turning the ship turns the velocity vector in the same direction, constant thrust doesn't give you constant acceleration, and when the engines stop, the ship loses speed for some reason.
Biolaja Tista Gallente Soulbound. Tenth Legion	Posted - 2007.12.02 20:54:00 - [17] FPS is not even remotely what I desire. The WODO's engine is an expanded version of Ambulation; but it can serve a purpose to give EVE "planetside." But I personally think that the two systems (space and planetside) should be fully integrated, so that we don't have to remake characters to play on the ground. People start in space, but get the option to live the rest of their lives on a planet should they choose to do so, and be able to return to space whenever they want without being at a disadvantage. We would have the same skills for convenience, but they would have different applications planetside, like in the case of weapons or mining. Instead of ground vehicles or sea-faring ships, we'd be able to use our ships in the upper and lower atmospheres. Example: imagine being a ground troop, and you're holding a missile launcher, and you use it to shoot a nearby frigate hovering above the ground.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.02 20:56:00 - [18] imagine being the frigate, and laughing when you can tank his damage, then turn around and fire back Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Ed Anger Weekly World News	Posted - 2007.12.02 20:59:00 - [19] Originally by: Biolaja Tista FPS is not even remotely what I desire. The WODO's engine is an expanded version of Ambulation; but it can serve a purpose to give EVE "planetside." But I personally think that the two systems (space and planetside) should be fully integrated, so that we don't have to remake characters to play on the ground. People start in space, but get the option to live the rest of their lives on a planet should they choose to do so, and be able to return to space whenever they want without being at a disadvantage. We would have the same skills for convenience, but they would have different applications planetside, like in the case of weapons or mining. Instead of ground vehicles or sea-faring ships, we'd be able to use our ships in the upper and lower atmospheres. Example: imagine being a ground troop, and you're holding a missile launcher, and you use it to shoot a nearby frigate hovering above the ground. this would be hawt
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2007.12.02 21:14:00 - [20] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Biolaja Tista Ambulation is non-combative due to the whole "spoon effect." But the World of Darkness Online, which is being watched by the White Wolf fanbase, will allow it. Since EVE Online is the top Sci-Fi MMO, IF it had an additional 100% optional component, it would be even cooler: ground combat. If planets will be walkable in a few years, what about a possible "ground combat" portion in order to compete with Tabula Rasa and other games? I'm not saying that the system should be in place, I'm just saying that I personally would enjoy it. But it definitely would be 100% optional. People could even spend their entire game-lives in ground combat on one planet, ignoring the space travel completely. Also, combat isn't the only application: player or npc cities, player housing, market places, spaceports, cybersex (maybe not), player armies, etc. are also possible. Besides adding a huge amount of realism (not everyone in the universe flies a ship), it would also open the game up to a whole new audience: people sick of fantasy but still like planets, etc. What do you think? I'm pretty sure most of you hate the idea. I'm all in favour of this. The potential is amazing and I hope CCP do it. I want flight-sim style atmospheric combat too. Someone mentioned that pod-pilots don't do walking around on mudballs. Quite right: they shouln't demean themselves. Give us an extra alt-slot or two specifically for ground based stuff I say... a whole different skill tree (and simultaneous training for those alt slots), different equipment, the lot. Apart from anything else, this would be a clean slate, and a chance for new players to not be overshadowed by older players. This.. omg would this kick ass! If done right wow... EVE would just kick major ass. And that alt idea is fantastic. DRINK RUM It fights scurvy & boosts morale! THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES!

Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.02 21:47:00 - [21] Edited by: Grimpak on 02/12/2007 21:46:52 that or you simply control a cyber-synth organism that you send down to earth. if he's destroyed, oh well, you're still in your pod, in the safety of a station. this would require some mechanism that would make the loss of your cyber-synth a very expensive and damaging thing tho. also read sig. --- planetary interaction idea!
Anstruther Deep Space Consortium	Posted - 2007.12.02 21:51:00 - [22] Gravity!!! CCP should work on introducing the major force that acts across the vastness of space. Making a planet or moon a dangerous place to fly too close too could make for some very interesting combat. Light, fast ships can get closer to the gravity well and still escape while larger ships die.
Ryuu Katsu High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.02 22:06:00 - [23] I wouldn't find FPS ground combat to fit to well with EVE. However, if planets were to become a valuable resource of some sort then the idea of flying in troops by the hundreds, thousands even and jet-launching them into the planets atmosphere to then take fight over the planet below would be interesting. Could make it so that it would take a fair amount of time to launch all the troops, giving other corps the time to gather a fleet and fight back the intruders possibly. Could open up for a whole new level of strategy and fighting for resources. Investments into POS on the planets surface, would have to be targetable from space, possibly with special planetary assault weapons. New ships could include dedicated troop transports that corps would try to get unharmed to the planet for troop deployment. Doing it in this way would employ the current graphics engine, no need to sink hundreds of development hours into FPS development and add a very interesting new level of warfare to the game. Could even use similar graphics to the drones and their trail for each dozen or so troops launching toward/into the atmosphere during deployment to further save development time. Just imagine a hulking troop-transport or several smaller ones launching dozens of these capsules/small troop crafts into the atmosphere while hovering just above the planets atmosphere, could look amazing.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.02 22:12:00 - [24] Originally by: Shar'Tuk TheHated Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Biolaja Tista Ambulation is non-combative due to the whole "spoon effect." But the World of Darkness Online, which is being watched by the White Wolf fanbase, will allow it. Since EVE Online is the top Sci-Fi MMO, IF it had an additional 100% optional component, it would be even cooler: ground combat. If planets will be walkable in a few years, what about a possible "ground combat" portion in order to compete with Tabula Rasa and other games? I'm not saying that the system should be in place, I'm just saying that I personally would enjoy it. But it definitely would be 100% optional. People could even spend their entire game-lives in ground combat on one planet, ignoring the space travel completely. Also, combat isn't the only application: player or npc cities, player housing, market places, spaceports, cybersex (maybe not), player armies, etc. are also possible. Besides adding a huge amount of realism (not everyone in the universe flies a ship), it would also open the game up to a whole new audience: people sick of fantasy but still like planets, etc. What do you think? I'm pretty sure most of you hate the idea. I'm all in favour of this. The potential is amazing and I hope CCP do it. I want flight-sim style atmospheric combat too. Someone mentioned that pod-pilots don't do walking around on mudballs. Quite right: they shouln't demean themselves. Give us an extra alt-slot or two specifically for ground based stuff I say... a whole different skill tree (and simultaneous training for those alt slots), different equipment, the lot. Apart from anything else, this would be a clean slate, and a chance for new players to not be overshadowed by older players. This.. omg would this kick ass! If done right wow... EVE would just kick major ass. And that alt idea is fantastic. It would be virtually a new game... but closely linked to "Spaceships EvE". Ground alts could engage in planetary exploration, trade, and yes, even fight (it wouldn't be EvE without PvP). I'd hope that the combat style would be a bit more thoughtful than counterstrike/UT though. Less reflexes, more brains. Lots of interlocking rock-paper-scissors type equipment (minmatar combat suits that add speed and agility vs gallante mecharmour with blasters...) CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Grim Vandal Caldari Burn Proof	Posted - 2007.12.02 22:16:00 - [25] even doesnt care about physic! for that we get infinity Greetings Grim
Theo Samaritan Gallente Pheonix Reborn	Posted - 2007.12.02 22:24:00 - [26] Right, how to make this easy. > Atmospheric fligth was demo'd in the Fan Fest back in 2005 as a future possibility for mission areas. Youtube it youll find a low quality recording of the demo. > This year at fanfest they said in the future they want a dumbed down system for planatary control over continents for minals and such, with RTS eventaully in like 10 years time if eve lives that long. ______________________________
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.12.02 22:35:00 - [27] Edited by: Paulo Damarr on 02/12/2007 22:38:01 Pod based super ground weapons would be awesome, but not battlemech sized though [/i]really[/i] big machines like the Supreme Commander super weapons or WH40k Titan sized weighing tens of thousands of tons in a similar scale to the EVE ships. A pod pilot would be the obvious choice to command something like that and it could use exactly the same control system for we have for the ships currently so no twitch based for the people who dont like that stuff, Indeed it could be done within the current engine perhaps as all it would need is an artificial "floor" for the ground and the models created and have some animations included and synced with the action, scenery could be placed the same as space scenery with destructible items made the same as dead space buildings/POS structures. Originally by: Tortun Nahme CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time
Tajidan Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.02 23:00:00 - [28] well, then show us some of your designs. would be quite interested :D http://www.eve-gfx.com
Nova Fox	Posted - 2007.12.02 23:03:00 - [29] here you go what i got done so far with the minmatar you can help out the main thread though and help improve the design there. Minmatar Liberator Carrier side to launch ground support fighters, attena masts swing up once turned into base mode and the troop bays are on its right side.
Tajidan Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.02 23:17:00 - [30] Edited by: Tajidan on 02/12/2007 23:24:11 Edited by: Tajidan on 02/12/2007 23:20:57 i posted in your thread now thanks :D as for EVE, i think the way EVE could be going is showed in Battlecruiser3000ad and Universal Combat, although bot of those games are bugged to hell and almost unplayable without a Bible-sized Manual. hardcore stuff but well worth a try, for example i needed 2hours until i finally found out how to land my BC and deploy air and groundcombat vehicles >.< edit: link for screens of BC3000 (attention oldschool) http://www.3000ad.com/site/screenshots_bc3k Universal Combat: Galactic Command screens http://www.3000ad.com/site/screenshots_gcte/ http://www.eve-gfx.com



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