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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.03 13:36:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: StarStryder
The trouble is that while the cloak gives you combat penalties these are more than evened out by the fact that the mission runner is usually engaged with many other ships already. Often his tank is running close to the limit and even if you catch him after clearing an area the tank is still low. Basically he's easy meat.
Maybe the NPCs need to breakup and engage new comers to spread the damage out and level the PvP playing field a little. The cloakers will still have an advantage due to the missioners tank.
The only problem this idea might cause is that group mission runners using support ships will get screwed. Still, support ship mechanics need an overhaul anyway.
/signed.
BTW: I like cloak as they are now.
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eXtas
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.12.03 13:42:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: StarStryder
The trouble is that while the cloak gives you combat penalties these are more than evened out by the fact that the mission runner is usually engaged with many other ships already. Often his tank is running close to the limit and even if you catch him after clearing an area the tank is still low. Basically he's easy meat.
Maybe the NPCs need to breakup and engage new comers to spread the damage out and level the PvP playing field a little. The cloakers will still have an advantage due to the missioners tank.
The only problem this idea might cause is that group mission runners using support ships will get screwed. Still, support ship mechanics need an overhaul anyway.
/signed.
BTW: I like cloak as they are now.
I allso like my cloak  I think everyone does 
but belt rats that change target to my untanked recon/covop are evil :(
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need new sig :( |
Jonathan Calvert
Minmatar
The Smithzonian Institute
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Posted - 2007.12.03 13:55:00 -
[33]
I like cloaking, but would have no problem with some way to counter it. As long as there is balance to avoid being scanned. Primarily taking local out would solve this. Someone shouldnt be able to tell when I jump into a system unless theyre watching the gate. Perhaps if not a cloak we need something to make it harder to scan down a ship. 30secs seems a bit quick.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.12.03 14:10:00 -
[34]
Minimize local.
Problem sorted.
If still not happy please dial 1-800-sandvag for the CCP nerf department.
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
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eXtas
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.12.03 14:28:00 -
[35]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
Minimize local.
Problem sorted.
If still not happy please dial 1-800-sandvag for the CCP nerf department.
or just ctrl-q
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need new sig :( |
Kayna Eelai
Gallente
Shadow Legion Covenant
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2007.12.03 14:29:00 -
[36]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
Minimize local.
Problem sorted.
If still not happy please dial 1-800-sandvag for the CCP nerf department.
sais the rapier pilot. and let me guess, you also have a cloak on that hurricane of yours?
rapier pirate pilot complaining about a "nerf cloak post"... why does it not surprise me, lol. would be very bad if you had to WORK for your kills actually, right?
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
CTec
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Posted - 2007.12.03 14:52:00 -
[37]
Add a module for Cov Op ships only. Or add a new ship class. Either way sounds like a fun ship to make and run. The only bad side would be 20km is a drop in a bucket compared to amount of space you have to cover. Smart AFK'ers use safe spots not even close to traffic lanes.
Originally by: Kumo T'sun
I still want to see a anti-cloak ship, something like an anti-sub frigate. The ship has a sonar like pulse which detects movement, (within a set range, ie 20km) move to fast while cloaked and you can be targeted by the anti-cloak ship and then target painted for the rest of the gang/fleet to shoot at.
Would be quite tense and fun having an anti-cloak ship pulsing away trying to find you. Das Boot in space.
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eXtas
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.12.03 14:55:00 -
[38]
titans work nice for this
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need new sig :( |
Spaceman Jack
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Posted - 2007.12.03 14:58:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Steppa
Just to remind everyone:
1) cloaking requires almost no power and can be turned on indefinitely.
2) there is no way to find a cloaked ship unless you pass within 2000 meters of it.
3) in contrast to #2, solar systems are multiple AU across.
4) since there is no counter, afk cloakers can sit forever without fear of reprisal.
Just a reminder:
1) You still cannot prove if a cloaker is AFK
2) An AFK cloaker has NO IDEA what you are doing... as they are AFK, as a result, is ignorant of your movements.
3) Cloakers cannot lock or fire upon anything
4) Cloaked ships are vulnerable after decloaking
5) Non covert ships equipped with cloaks are essentially combat ineffective against good players
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eXtas
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.12.03 15:01:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Spaceman Jack
Originally by: Steppa
Just to remind everyone:
1) cloaking requires almost no power and can be turned on indefinitely.
2) there is no way to find a cloaked ship unless you pass within 2000 meters of it.
3) in contrast to #2, solar systems are multiple AU across.
4) since there is no counter, afk cloakers can sit forever without fear of reprisal.
Just a reminder:
1) You still cannot prove if a cloaker is AFK
2) An AFK cloaker has NO IDEA what you are doing... as they are AFK, as a result, is ignorant of your movements.
3) Cloakers cannot lock or fire upon anything
4) Cloaked ships are vulnerable after decloaking
5) Non covert ships equipped with cloaks are essentially combat ineffective against good players
right... what do you mean with 5) ?
cloaking is just damn good way ti hide from beeing ganked
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need new sig :( |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.12.03 16:14:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Steppa
4) since there is no counter, afk cloakers can sit forever without fear of reprisal.
There is no counter to a probe either, they will always find you regardless of what you do. Just view the cloak as the only counter to probes 
Before probes you could safespot and hide. Now you have 2 choices:
1)CTL-Q
2)Cloak.
So, introduce a counter to probes and you will see fewer cloaks since a cloak gimps your combat setup.
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
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Ravenal
Mechanus Works
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Posted - 2007.12.03 16:29:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Telschak
Edited by: Telschak on 03/12/2007 10:14:14
I dont really see the problem with ->AFK<- Cloakers..they are apparently Away From Keyboard and as such does nothing that affect anyone during that that time AFK. They cant kill anyone for sure...
Make the cloaking devices manual activation only, possibly with a cooldown period.
Cooldown period (if added) would be like 10 seconds for a prototype cloaking device... 5 seconds for improved cloaking device II and no cooldown for covert ops.
If cooldown is added, we need a timer though to indicate when we can activate the cloaking device again.
... problem solved.
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Ace Garpy
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.03 16:42:00 -
[43]
Originally by: eXtas
right... what do you mean with 5) ?
cloaking is just damn good way ti hide from beeing ganked
Where is the problem with that? All the player can do is hide. His ship is less combat effective as the cloak as taken up much of the ships valuable combat resources anyway.
The player is rendered combat ineffective. He could just keep making SS after SS in the system and you would still have a problem locating him with probes.
So much moaning over a specialist vessels ability to adds some depth to the game and everyone wants an even playing field. 
Sig removed, maximum allowed image dimensions are 400x120 and maximum allowed size is 24,000 bytes. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -wystler
The Knight said - Oh that is an excellent story of payback, international romance, and James Bondery |
Kayna Eelai
Gallente
Shadow Legion Covenant
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2007.12.03 17:34:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Kayna Eelai on 03/12/2007 17:34:46
Originally by: Ace Garpy
Originally by: eXtas
right... what do you mean with 5) ?
cloaking is just damn good way ti hide from beeing ganked
Where is the problem with that? All the player can do is hide. His ship is less combat effective as the cloak as taken up much of the ships valuable combat resources anyway.
The player is rendered combat ineffective. He could just keep making SS after SS in the system and you would still have a problem locating him with probes.
So much moaning over a specialist vessels ability to adds some depth to the game and everyone wants an even playing field.
let me assume you are in a 0.0 alliance...
and let me ask you:
you are in your 0.0 homebase, not many friends around today and the few that are, are actually AFK. you want to make some ISK by ratting... but for last 6 hours there have been 4 hostiles in your system. you can't know where they are, you can't know if they're AFK right now. two in recon ships and two in cloaking battleships and you know this because they have killed a few of your friends earlier. if you get attacked they would probably kill you before any help arrives.
are you actually telling me you would undock and start ratting in that very same system as if nothing happens?
by your logic, the answer is YES, because as they are cloaking, they are less combat effective. and they are AFK probably anyways.
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.03 17:36:00 -
[45]
is this a necro? because im only seeing the same old whines?
Originally by: Cecil Montague
They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
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Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2007.12.03 17:44:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
you are in your 0.0 homebase, not many friends around today and the few that are, are actually AFK. you want to make some ISK by ratting... but for last 6 hours there have been 4 hostiles in your system. you can't know where they are, you can't know if they're AFK right now. two in recon ships and two in cloaking battleships and you know this because they have killed a few of your friends earlier. if you get attacked they would probably kill you before any help arrives.
are you actually telling me you would undock and start ratting in that very same system as if nothing happens?
So why is the alliance's inability to patrol its own space now the cloakers' fault? I mean seriously, even a smallish corp *should* be able to have 5-6 guys on which is all you really need. Replace those 4 cloaking ships with 4 inties or whatever, and youd be in the exact same situation would you not?
_________________
[SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Originally by: Wrangler
Well, at least we have forum PvP..
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Kayna Eelai
Gallente
Shadow Legion Covenant
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2007.12.03 17:52:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Del Narveux
So why is the alliance's inability to patrol its own space now the cloakers' fault? I mean seriously, even a smallish corp *should* be able to have 5-6 guys on which is all you really need. Replace those 4 cloaking ships with 4 inties or whatever, and youd be in the exact same situation would you not?
well, that's my point. patrol is USELESS as those ships are cloaked when they don't want to engage. impossible to find em even if you probe for 4 hours straight. and if they attack some1 you can be damn sure the target will be dead before any1 arrives as backup and guess what: the cloakers are already cloaked again.
if cloaking was limited by aggresion cooldown, hahaha, now THAT would be fun actually.
and about alliance patrols...
1) who is gonna be willing to roam around doing NOTHING for several hours? coz that is what happens when you "PATROL"
2) even if they know there are hostiles in system. they also know they've been there for last 6 hours... what is this: "who has more stamina and patience - online"?
3) sooner or later, a patrol leaves for another system... then the cloakers can do their business again (well not that the patrol would have them hindered much)
as stated a few times: i'd like to be able to probe cloakers. make it HARD, make it need MAX SKILLS... but make it possible.
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
DOARota
Gallente
Drones Of Annihilation.
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.12.03 18:06:00 -
[48]
As it stands, a cloak is the only viable option when the enemy blobs you. When you have a gang of 10-15 and the enemy brings 150-200, you need an equalizer. The only one that is offered is a cloak.
When the enemy dwindles to 40-50 you can re-engage, but soon it goes back up to 200.
Bring more? Then you've allowed ccp to dictate to you that blob-warfare is the only acceptable tactic.
Bring a titan? Can't remember where I parked it :(
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2007.12.03 19:17:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Ulstan on 03/12/2007 19:21:41
People who whine endlessly about 'afk cloakers' amuse and entertain me. I relish their tears.
What is it exactly about "I know he's out there but I can't find him" that drives you so batty? It's really no different than someone logging off in the same system or docking.
If it drives you nuts, close local. Or petend that local didn't exist and actually use your scanner if you're worried about them dropping in on you.
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Exero's Woman
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Posted - 2007.12.03 19:37:00 -
[50]
It's not afk cloakers that are the problem it's farmers and ratters that ss and cloak as soon as anyone jumps into system. why should someone be able to rat in 0.0 with 0 risk of getting popped? |
Spaceman Jack
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Posted - 2007.12.03 20:12:00 -
[51]
Originally by: eXtas
right... what do you mean with 5) ?
cloaking is just damn good way ti hide from beeing ganked
Unless you get targeted first...so let me make that a #6
6) If you get targeted.. no cloakie
The mere act of adding a cloak to your setup has its negative effects on your ship, so you are out of an extra slot AND you ship is less effective. If the ship is not a cloak specific ship.. its essentially handicapped.
So now we are *****ing about people who make bad decisions on their ship use and setup.. why?
If they want to do something dumb.. let them.
EVE is supposed to be a sandbox, this game was not created so that you would not be bothered with someone in local you could not find.
And guess what.. even with a nerf you will STILL have people you cant find for one reason or another. But I guess the devs are here to make the game less stressful for you.
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eXtas
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.12.03 20:15:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Exero's Woman
It's not afk cloakers that are the problem it's farmers and ratters that ss and cloak as soon as anyone jumps into system. why should someone be able to rat in 0.0 with 0 risk of getting popped?
not hard to probe them, just use a fast covop and warp to last result and uncloak them.. unless they use a 50au+ system then u need to figure out where they cloak :) so u need to use deepspace probe first and then let them go back to npcing.. I got farmers is 700+ au safes
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need new sig :( |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.12.03 20:16:00 -
[53]
Hey look, I've never seen a thread about this before.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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eXtas
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.12.03 20:20:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Ace Garpy
Originally by: eXtas
right... what do you mean with 5) ?
cloaking is just damn good way ti hide from beeing ganked
Where is the problem with that? All the player can do is hide. His ship is less combat effective as the cloak as taken up much of the ships valuable combat resources anyway.
The player is rendered combat ineffective. He could just keep making SS after SS in the system and you would still have a problem locating him with probes.
So much moaning over a specialist vessels ability to adds some depth to the game and everyone wants an even playing field.
well only thing you realy lose is a highslot... and theres many ships with spare highs.. like ravens :) dont really affect his combat
and didnt I say that cloak is damn good for hiding from geting ganked? whats wrong with that? you are telling me thats all he can do..
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need new sig :( |
eXtas
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.12.03 20:21:00 -
[55]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Hey look, I've never seen a thread about this before.
no way!
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need new sig :( |
Hamfast
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.03 20:27:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Exero's Woman
It's not afk cloakers that are the problem it's farmers and ratters that ss and cloak as soon as anyone jumps into system. why should someone be able to rat in 0.0 with 0 risk of getting popped?
This is what they are talking about, Asian Farmer Korps Cloaking when someone enters the system... Why they pick on the Asians I don't know.
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It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
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eXtas
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.12.03 20:30:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Hamfast
Originally by: Exero's Woman
It's not afk cloakers that are the problem it's farmers and ratters that ss and cloak as soon as anyone jumps into system. why should someone be able to rat in 0.0 with 0 risk of getting popped?
This is what they are talking about, Asian Farmer Korps Cloaking when someone enters the system... Why they pick on the Asians I don't know.
because one of them was a really cute asian chick that sent me some pic's  well it was the best farmer I ever run into... I miss her 
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need new sig :( |
Clinically
Gallente
Cold-Fury
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.03 21:28:00 -
[58]
Thread derailed! Yes, I was hoping I got to probe out cloaking Raven ISK farmers, they have nice fittings.
The answer to my question appears to be: no changes in trinity .
Thread over, thanks for answering my question.
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