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Why so people moan about incursions.

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lilAnanke xLegion of the dammedx. 0	Posted - 2012.02.02 05:34:00 - [1] - Quote So new eden why is it that we have all turned into moaning buggers when it comes to incursions. Why is it people have such an issue with people making isk from them. I fly in both high and low sec incursions so can comment on the subject. If CCP boosted the rewards from low sec incursions people would fight to get to them. But what i dont understand is why Newer members who "farm " being used in the lose term for isk to allow them to gain isk for skill books and such and for plex's this should be encouraged as a way for our game play.Alowing people to pay for our accounts then it might bring more to the game. And the Bring more targets. With regards to having to kill the mom to get the site to despawn why not have a timer set on it or an isk payout limit. What i also see if its people form some of the larger alliances and P-ú-ú-úK Squad who can fleild supers and such what you have to ask your self is here other than missions and buying plex's do people get there money for supers. Basically what im saying is if you keep nerfing and moaning about the way people make isk in game you are going to ruin it for others dont nerf the incursions boost other things and take the people away form them and to other avenues of income and for god sake new eden STOP MOANING.
Citizen Smif Plantains 66	Posted - 2012.02.02 10:14:00 - [2] - Quote I agree.. I hate all the moaning about incursions. Some people just like the safety of highsec, if highsec incursions were overly nerfed everyone is just going to go back to missions. Personally I support any PvE content that actively encourages/forces integration with other people.. This is an MMO after all. Buff low sec incursions, missions and mining considerably then maybe you'd actually see people choosing to move out of high.. But just nerfing high sec income isn't going to do anything apart from **** people off. Encourage, don't force.
Bad Messenger draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 108	Posted - 2012.02.02 12:34:00 - [3] - Quote Getting lot of isk without any risk (at least on experienced fleet) makes different EVE areas unbalanced. If you have Fleet of 10 people you can make 1b/ hour for fleet + lp so if they farm like 1 month 4 hours a day, they have made 120b isk so that is 12b / head in month without risk. No wonder many 0.0 people farm those with alts at least.
Berendas Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE 187	Posted - 2012.02.02 16:33:00 - [4] - Quote If you even have to ask why people have a problem with Incursions, you either haven't been playing this game for very long - or you just don't get how its supposed to work. ISK gain in EVE is supposed to be proportional to risk, and guess what... Incursions aren't risky. They were never intended to act as a massive ISK faucet and that's why people have a problem with them.
FloppieTheBanjoClown Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 805	Posted - 2012.02.02 17:26:00 - [5] - Quote Just nerf the farming of vanguards and most of the complaints about incursions will melt away.
Ikra Atarm T.R.I.A.D 1	Posted - 2012.02.02 18:47:00 - [6] - Quote Put it this way when I was running incursions I was making 150m an hour with pretty much 0 risk now look at standard lowsec system always in danger for getting ganked an if u farmed 12 hours you would probably make aroun the 500m mark if you were lucky where as an highsec incursion runner would of made 1.8bill as well as lp plus low sec u would get interupted more often Due to roaming gangs with the risk reward ratio way outta balance the most profitable thing in highsec should be less then or equal to the least profitable thing in lowsec this would balance the isk reward ratio and yes you say well low sec incursions pay more ... They don't the may pay more per site however they take much longer considering in highsec all good fleets are faction fit you really gonna take that isk into low ... Don't think so so running is actually slower less isk incursions should give slightl more than lvl 4 s per hour
mxzf Shovel Bros 445	Posted - 2012.02.02 20:03:00 - [7] - Quote FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: Just nerf the farming of vanguards and most of the complaints about incursions will melt away. This. Vanguards are clearly unbalanced compared to the other sizes of incursion sites. Also, Scout payouts and difficulty should probably be looked at. I ran a few sites just for kicks a bit ago and the salvage from the half-dozen wrecks was worth a few times more than the bounty itself (which is just kinda borked). They jump from being solo-able in a frig with 50k ISK and 50 LP payout to requiring a fleet of 6-10 BS/T3/Logis and paying out 10M+thousands of LP. It seems like Scouts should be manageable with 2-5 semi-skilled people and atleast pay out 1-3M, something between where they are now and Vanguards.
lilAnanke xLegion of the dammedx. 1	Posted - 2012.02.02 21:25:00 - [8] - Quote Now lads I here you say there is no risk in high sec...... where dose it say that There has to be a risk to make isk surly you are takinging a risk every time you fly into a site unless you have total faith in the logi and the logi are compitent you are going down. And yes vanguards in highsec are faster I agree but people need to make money to play the game we moan about real money trading buying plex's you moan about misson lot being to high and it gets nerfed. Wjy dont you all moan about everything else being to low and leave incursions alone. If you complain about it why dont you just fly the bloody things yourself and make the isk everyone else is making. Its not us being greedy its us being sensiable we have found easy isk to make and we use it to fund our 0.0 adventures and super caps. With regards to low sec being less profitable CCP have vust introduced ne inul fieids most of which can be found in low sec plex's so surely low sec is now on par with high sec incursions.
Ikra Atarm T.R.I.A.D 1	Posted - 2012.02.02 22:55:00 - [9] - Quote No as u can't run those all days an the Price is dropping and I did fly incursions then I joined fw an. U do get groups such as NPo who have amazing logi it's pretty safe it's not the payout is to high it's the isk reward is to high name one thing I can sit down an earn a constant 100m an hr for 12 hours ?
Jaa-Ko Arakal Dogmatic Citizens NZAU Alliance 11	Posted - 2012.02.02 23:04:00 - [10] - Quote 7.5/10, would be less but everyone fell for it.
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 287	Posted - 2012.02.03 00:32:00 - [11] - Quote Ikra Atarm wrote: No as u can't run those all days an the Price is dropping and I did fly incursions then I joined fw an. U do get groups such as NPo who have amazing logi it's pretty safe it's not the payout is to high it's the isk reward is to high name one thing I can sit down an earn a constant 100m an hr for 12 hours ? Fighters assigned to a 4 BCU Tengu in a Sanctum/Haven system. Nullsec missioning (assuming you either control the pocket or haven't pissed off everyone there). L5s.
Cedo Nulli Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 43	Posted - 2012.02.03 03:55:00 - [12] - Quote It seems to be a trend that both shield and armor fleets have to be packed to same incursion system due to no otherone being available ... this leads to avarage 140 people in each VG system at most given times. That equals not 100mil/h but less im afraid. It doesent help if you have pro fleet if you have no sites to run that fit your fleet comp. In some T3 fleets dominate and in some the BS heavier will do better. Fact is VGs should be less rewarding then running assaults and assaults should be less rewarding then running HQs. Scout sites need to be looked at. Its funny how propaganda by the "Burn it all to ground" people seems to be built ... you got that 160mil/h income once so you will claim that as the avarage income.
JunkRaider Samurai Salvaging Stellar Defense Alliance 15	Posted - 2012.02.03 04:42:00 - [13] - Quote Hahahaha!! I can so relate to this on so many levels. I remember telling a pal of mine that lives in a wh that I make 100mil an hr ezzz running incursions. He was pissed. Anyway, I don't think highsec incursions should be nerfed because incursions spawn everywhere and the reward definitely increases as you venture into lower sec space. Incursions are also competitive so no one is making as much isk as you all claim without putting in a lot of effort unlike moon mining and co. Don't touch incursions. Leave it!!!
Alaric Faelen Black Rebel Rifter Club 67	Posted - 2012.02.03 06:45:00 - [14] - Quote Well said already- the fundamental mechanic is increasing risk for increased reward. This is the funnel by which the PvP world of Eve is based around. You should be horrifically limited in reward for the amount of risk involved with high sec activities. High sec mining should suck. High sec missions should be meaningless grinds, high sec incursions should be the lowest, least rewarding version, and should always be designed to lag behind the rewards available in more dangerous space. Incursions are just the 'easy isk' flavor of the month. They pay out too much for the amount of risk involved. Incursions are really just level 6+ missions (or an overgrown Ded Plex) It seems low or null is where they belong to begin with. Worm Holes are a better game mechanic IMO- there you have strong PvE (with strong rewards accordingly) but only at the risk of PvP plus the added gimp of an inactive local chat. No matter where you find the WH, the WH itself is null sec. That makes perfect sense given the rewards for the Sleeper sites. For Incursions I think the lowest level ones could be in high sec, but any that pays out as much cash or LP as a level 5 mission should be in low or null.
Ikra Atarm T.R.I.A.D 1	Posted - 2012.02.03 09:06:00 - [15] - Quote Alaric Faelen wrote: Well said already- the fundamental mechanic is increasing risk for increased reward. This is the funnel by which the PvP world of Eve is based around. You should be horrifically limited in reward for the amount of risk involved with high sec activities. High sec mining should suck. High sec missions should be meaningless grinds, high sec incursions should be the lowest, least rewarding version, and should always be designed to lag behind the rewards available in more dangerous space. Incursions are just the 'easy isk' flavor of the month. They pay out too much for the amount of risk involved. Incursions are really just level 6+ missions (or an overgrown Ded Plex) It seems low or null is where they belong to begin with. Worm Holes are a better game mechanic IMO- there you have strong PvE (with strong rewards accordingly) but only at the risk of PvP plus the added gimp of an inactive local chat. No matter where you find the WH, the WH itself is null sec. That makes perfect sense given the rewards for the Sleeper sites. For Incursions I think the lowest level ones could be in high sec, but any that pays out as much cash or LP as a level 5 mission should be in low or null. +1 exactly an u can make 150m an hour all u need is to contest sites with you faction fit Mach/legion fleet and you win if your sitting round waiting for anymore than 3 mins your doing it wrong
Ehn Roh Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2012.02.06 22:50:00 - [16] - Quote lilAnanke wrote: Now lads I here you say there is no risk in high sec...... where dose it say that There has to be a risk to make isk surly you are takinging a risk every time you fly into a site - lol no. Seriously, no. No, you are not. "Risk" is generally referring to risk from others, not simple PvE failure. Nobody really has any excuse to fail in PvE, it's simply a matter of preparation and execution. I think the payouts are a bit obnoxious for a PvE activity in hisec, and this means that when they pop up outside of hisec they just sit there. If there aren't enough locals to deal with it they just have to wait for it to go away.
Trinkets friend Obstergo NEM3SIS. 128	Posted - 2012.02.06 23:59:00 - [17] - Quote CCP Diagoras gave some stats on his Twitter account. In one day, the Incursion ISK payout total was 310Bn ISK to 1700-odd toons. In the same day ALL bounties given out within the whole of New Eden was 980Bn ISK or thereabouts. 91% of Incursions were done in Hisec. Make of that what you will. The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu @trinketsfriend on twatter
doombreed52 Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore 5	Posted - 2012.02.08 14:40:00 - [18] - Quote reverse where they spawn 3 in 0.0 2 in low 1 in high.
Tenris Anis Schattenengel Clan 34	Posted - 2012.02.08 18:24:00 - [19] - Quote mxzf wrote: FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: Just nerf the farming of vanguards and most of the complaints about incursions will melt away. This. Vanguards are clearly unbalanced compared to the other sizes of incursion sites. Also, Scout payouts and difficulty should probably be looked at. I ran a few sites just for kicks a bit ago and the salvage from the half-dozen wrecks was worth a few times more than the bounty itself (which is just kinda borked). They jump from being solo-able in a frig with 50k ISK and 50 LP payout to requiring a fleet of 6-10 BS/T3/Logis and paying out 10M+thousands of LP. It seems like Scouts should be manageable with 2-5 semi-skilled people and atleast pay out 1-3M, something between where they are now and Vanguards. While I agree on scouts, you have failed to make a argument for or against buffing vanguards. Maybe it is not as clearly as you thought?
Tenris Anis Schattenengel Clan 34	Posted - 2012.02.08 18:27:00 - [20] - Quote Ehn Roh wrote: Seriously, no. No, you are not. "Risk" is generally referring to risk from others, not simple PvE failure. Nobody really has any excuse to fail in PvE, it's simply a matter of preparation and execution. Seriosly, no. Risk is generally not refering to risk from others. Risk is just risk. And anyway nobody really has any excuse to fail in PvP either, it-¦s is as well a simple matter of preparations and executions.
Borun Tal Cubicle Warriors from 'merica 43	Posted - 2012.02.08 19:45:00 - [21] - Quote "We all"? Speak for yourself. I couldn't care one whit about Incursions: who runs them, who profits from them, and who dives in to gank the Incursion runners. If I'm completely bored I'll hunt around for some Scout's to solo, assuming there aren't a lot of people in Local. If not, I find something else to do. What's the problem?
Zyress Deaths Head Brigade Gryphon League 29	Posted - 2012.02.09 22:05:00 - [22] - Quote Berendas wrote: If you even have to ask why people have a problem with Incursions, you either haven't been playing this game for very long - or you just don't get how its supposed to work. ISK gain in EVE is supposed to be proportional to risk, and guess what... Incursions aren't risky. They were never intended to act as a massive ISK faucet and that's why people have a problem with them. Says you, how risky is it setting in a station with your market alt making big isk? How risky is it infiltrating a corp ripping them off and flying away?
Trinkets friend Obstergo NEM3SIS. 130	Posted - 2012.02.10 02:46:00 - [23] - Quote Tenris Anis wrote: Ehn Roh wrote: Seriously, no. No, you are not. "Risk" is generally referring to risk from others, not simple PvE failure. Nobody really has any excuse to fail in PvE, it's simply a matter of preparation and execution. Seriosly, no. Risk is generally not refering to risk from others. Risk is just risk. And anyway nobody really has any excuse to fail in PvP either, it-¦s is as well a simple matter of preparations and executions. If no one failed in PVP there would be no killmails. The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu @trinketsfriend on twatter
M1k3y Koontz Taxes Suck Inc. 3	Posted - 2012.02.26 22:23:00 - [24] - Quote High sec incursion (especially vanguards) have far too little risk for the massive reward they get with a decent fleet. Either nerf highsec incursions payout, or make it harder to farm them for a solid week before moving to another region. One way to do this: End the incursion 24 hours after the mothership spawns. That or make the reward for the mothership site worth enough for people to break whatever deal they have about not running it, making them spend more time running from incursion to incursion, decreasing the earnings.
Hamatitio Aperture Harmonics K162 72	Posted - 2012.02.26 22:46:00 - [25] - Quote ever since all the incursion whining started, more people started running them. Which means less isk / hour. A few months back it was pretty easy to make 120 mil +. Now with a better fleet its tough to break 80. 150 people in a VG system means you dont get a site every 3 minutes.
James Amril-Kesh Interstellar Faction 21 33	Posted - 2012.02.27 00:15:00 - [26] - Quote Think incursions are too high reward for too low risk? You can do something about this yourself, you know. Watch the incursion channel. Look at people's fits. Wait until someone posts a fit with many hundreds of millions of ISK worth of faction mods. Vanguard runners will often have faction stasis webs, faction damage mods, and faction damage resist mods. Go get a couple of your buddies in tier 3 BCs and gank them, and have someone ready to pick up the loot. Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window!
Tenris Anis Schattenengel Clan 37	Posted - 2012.03.03 12:21:00 - [27] - Quote M1k3y Koontz wrote: High sec incursion (especially vanguards) have far too little risk for the massive reward they get with a decent fleet. Either nerf highsec incursions payout, or make it harder to farm them for a solid week before moving to another region. One way to do this: End the incursion 24 hours after the mothership spawns. That or make the reward for the mothership site worth enough for people to break whatever deal they have about not running it, making them spend more time running from incursion to incursion, decreasing the earnings. How long to you think the average incursion bear farms an incursion per day? If you want them to move 15-30 jumps every second day, you have to calculate this into the rewards as well. You do not want to make l4s paying better. A nomadic lifestyle is part of the incursion bears opportunity costs. Just as much as as defending sov is part of a null bears opportunity costs and getting killed randomly of low and null sec populations opportunity costs. As long as it is worth to pay this costs everything is fine and balanced.
Tenris Anis Schattenengel Clan 37	Posted - 2012.03.03 12:37:00 - [28] - Quote FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: Just nerf the farming of vanguards and most of the complaints about incursions will melt away. Together with people doing incursions in high sec ;-) They are barely worth the trouble now already. But I agree, they are indeed very, very safe to fly. The risk involved doing vgs are not about losing your ship, but about wasting time.
Purple Madness Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2012.03.04 11:10:00 - [29] - Quote In my experience, most people that talk about 'risk' and 'PvE' have no idea what they're talking about. We always hear people talk about how 0.0 ratting is inherently risky because of ~~OMG0.0~~ and therefore should make more isk than high sec. And yet ratting/anoms in 0.0 are literally the safest isk possible in the game. Someone other than you in local? warp to ss/pos. 0 risk. Literally 0. You have no chance whatsoever of being caught and ganked if you're even remotely competent. Highsec missions? Fly a pimped out deadspace mission ship and see how long it takes you to get suicide ganked. Think you can prevent someone from suicide ganking you in highsec? lol, I guess you can--if you never undock. Eve-kill top isk kills are filled with highsec mission ganks. I don't know anything about incursions beyond knowing that some people employ the aggro mechanics to gank noobs in highsec incursions. I guess there's less risk there than idiot nullsec types that think they're living the hard life ratting away in anoms with no one else in local right? Anyone who thinks nullsec pve is riskier than lowsec/highsec has literally no clue how to play this game.
IbanezLaney The Church of Awesome 3	Posted - 2012.03.05 23:24:00 - [30] - Quote I have only tried an incursion once so my idea might be useless - but here goes. Motherships just needs to be on a timer that removes all drops and lp from it after a certain time. CCP could easily make it so the blueprint only has a chance of dropping if it's killed in the first 24hours (or whatever is needed) after it spawns. Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7
Mfume Apocal Origin. Nulli Secunda 333	Posted - 2012.03.05 23:32:00 - [31] - Quote IbanezLaney wrote: I have only tried an incursion once so my idea might be useless - but here goes. Motherships just needs to be on a timer that removes all drops and lp from it after a certain time. There already is a timer like that.
Addrake Origin. 15	Posted - 2012.03.06 12:45:00 - [32] - Quote Printing isk with almost no real risk. Not only do you get isk per hour that's better than most sources of income in lowsec/0.0, but you get LP on top of it. It's not really that hard to understand.
Skippermonkey Tactical Knightmare 803	Posted - 2012.03.06 13:59:00 - [33] - Quote Addrake wrote: Printing isk with almost no real risk. Not only do you get isk per hour that's better than most sources of income in lowsec/0.0, but you get LP on top of it. It's not really that hard to understand. simple fix... remove bounties and keep LP VOTE SKIPPERMONKEY FOR CSM - TERRIBAD AT EVE BUT GREAT AT FORUMS show your support for me here
Daemon Ceed Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition 24	Posted - 2012.03.07 00:53:00 - [34] - Quote Personally, I don't give a flying **** about Incursion runners. The more money furry bears have, the juicier the mods on their ships. That way when I gank them with a fleet of 10 suicide Tornados I get paid out more by the drop. People need to stop whining and think outside the box. Post with your main or GTFO!
Addrake Origin. 15	Posted - 2012.03.07 10:49:00 - [35] - Quote Daemon Ceed wrote: Personally, I don't give a flying **** about Incursion runners. The more money furry bears have, the juicier the mods on their ships. That way when I gank them with a fleet of 10 suicide Tornados I get paid out more by the drop. People need to stop whining and think outside the box. Thinking outside the box of reality. I like it.
Sui'Djin Black Rise Guerilla Forces 1	Posted - 2012.03.07 12:54:00 - [36] - Quote Those ppl whining about incursion payout usually don't know what they are talking about. Getting above 100m/hour constantly (!) is very hard and only achievable in certain circumstances. You need a perfect fleet setup, 3 highsec incursions present (ever tried to do incursions when just 1 highsec incursion is up? lol) and no competing fleets for the type of vanguards you're after, just to name a few. As someone already mentioned you don't count in the time you spend for fleet forming, travelling your ships dozens of jumps to the next Incursion spawn etc, so what you basically do is telling lots of unreflected bs. There are enough ways to earn 100m per hour or more EVERYWHERE. You can make that money in 0.0 (Sanctums/Havens), lowsec (FW-Missions) or Highsec Incursions. You can make way more money by trading btw. I am not against tweaking incursions payout, they definitely need that. But please stop whining about Incursion profits, try achieving more than 100m per hour constantly (!) by doing incursions instead. We'll see what song you sing then.
Tinu Moorhsum Royal Scientific Research Enterprise 69	Posted - 2012.03.09 21:52:00 - [37] - Quote lilAnanke wrote: Basically what im saying is if you keep nerfing and moaning about the way people make isk in game you are going to ruin it for others dont nerf the incursions boost other things and take the people away form them and to other avenues of income and for god sake new eden STOP MOANING. The problem isn't that people don't like incursions. The reason people complain is that they don't think you should be able to make 100mil isk/hr in risk free space. It's silly when people who live in 0.0 space are putting jump clones in high-sec for their isk grinding. That's the world upside-down. T-
Kodama Ikari GOOD FELLAS Inc. 13	Posted - 2012.03.10 07:48:00 - [38] - Quote lilAnanke wrote: What i also see if its people form some of the larger alliances who can fleild supers and such what you have to ask your self is here other than missions and buying plex's do people get there money for supers. Proliferation of supercapitals happened long before incursions were even around, and has more to do with the 0.0 metagame and drone alloys more than anything else. Also, LOL at the idea that PL gets its supers from running missions. Quote: Basically what im saying is if you keep nerfing and moaning about the way people make isk in game you are going to ruin it for others This was the argument against every single balancing change ever. No one in this game is afraid of ruining it for others, in fact, that's often the whole point. Time and time again, the developers and the players have rejected the idea that certain gameplay styles or gameplay mechanics should be viewed in a vaccuum. Just because its fun, easy, or preferred does not mean it should be immune from being judged in the context of the game as a whole. Threatening to cancel your subscription over a change to your isk-making is not a particularly convincing argument to other players, and the devs have shown they're not intimidated by it either. PS. hope to be running vanguards with you in a couple weeks, hope ccp hasn't nerfed them by then. Good Fellas for life!
Svodola Darkfury Hellstorm Inc 5	Posted - 2012.03.11 02:09:00 - [39] - Quote Bad Messenger wrote: Getting lot of isk without any risk (at least on experienced fleet) makes different EVE areas unbalanced. If you have Fleet of 10 people you can make 1b/ hour for fleet + lp so if they farm like 1 month 4 hours a day, they have made 120b isk so that is 12b / head in month without risk. No wonder many 0.0 people farm those with alts at least. 1 bil per hour for the whole fleet. Or 100 million per person per hour. This is directly in proportion to healthy wormhole rates of acquisition (c4 and less) and I want to say about twice what you earn in missions (but I'm not sure, I haven't blitzed missions since my skills got better ages ago). It's not an ISK issue, it's a risk issue. It's not like you're earning MORE than other options, it's that you're earning too much for what you're doing (farming rats in high-sec). Compared to mission running sure it's "too much" but compared to other methods of acquiring wealth (say high-sec connected wormhole day-ops) it's pretty much on par if you don't get screwed on loot. As many people have said, it's about the lack of risk for the amount of wealth being acquired, has very little to do with how much is coming out of it imo. The difference between this and wormholing is safety vs. relative safety.
Siphaanu Human Remains Incorporated 0	Posted - 2012.03.11 11:40:00 - [40] - Quote As I've recently dabbled in Incursions myself, I'll share some of my experience on the matter There are several factors in play when determining payout or ISK per hour. The two most important ones are the number of players participating (in the constellation or VG system in particular) and the level of organization employed. In regards to the second factor, in my experience, most people run incursions in pick up fleets which take time to form. You do not begin to receive ISK the second you enter an Incursion infested constellation, more so, I've seen people link their decent fits in a popular incursion channel for more than an hour before they got accepted or gave up. While it's true that better organized groups/corporations/alliances can and do get a fleet set up faster, that is only to be admired, encouraged and rewarded. This is an MMO game where cooperation and good organization (should) provide better results Now, to the fabled 150M ISK per hour-risk free players-turned-cash-printing-machines. When all of the above mentioned (and other) conditions apply in the most beneficial way, with the best level of organization, ship fits, player skills, downtime between sites reduced to the bare minimum, short (or non existent) bio breaks, local numbers low etc. then and only then will a person receive 150M ISK per hour. As soon as you start chipping away at those conditions, for example maybe it's crowded and you have to contest every second site, or suddenly both of your basilisks decide their GFs need spanking or whatever, that fabled number 150M will drop. Severely. Not just down to 120M or 100M, but lower, the more "common" your fleet becomes Now, be fair. Don't lie to yourself and others when claiming that every damn noobie in his mael or abaddon makes 150M per hour Personally, I think that PvE wise, Incursions are the best thing that happened to EVE so far. Compared to mining, running missions, ratting belts or plexing, they are the most fun thing to do when I need ISK (I haven't run sleeper sites so I can't compare anything with those) With all that said, I do think Incursions need some tweaking. Spawn waves could vary more, VG sites should pay a bit less. If low and null sec rewards were scaled up and other HiSec PvE content was redesigned so that it wasn't so mind numbingly boring, I'd even propose making Incursions spawn somewhat less frequently, giving them a more uncommon, eventish feel.
Rath Kelbore The Six-Pack Syndicate EVE Animal Control 34	Posted - 2012.03.15 20:20:00 - [41] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: Ikra Atarm wrote: No as u can't run those all days an the Price is dropping and I did fly incursions then I joined fw an. U do get groups such as NPo who have amazing logi it's pretty safe it's not the payout is to high it's the isk reward is to high name one thing I can sit down an earn a constant 100m an hr for 12 hours ? Fighters assigned to a 4 BCU Tengu in a Sanctum/Haven system. Nullsec missioning (assuming you either control the pocket or haven't pissed off everyone there). L5s. In Highsec?
BearJews Android Arms And Industrial Corporation 28	Posted - 2012.03.16 17:55:00 - [42] - Quote who cares if someone is running it for 12 hours. The average shlub runs incursions for an hour cause we have what we call a real life. People who abuse the system will always be around. No reason to punish everyone because of a couple of virgins. And i might add. there is a risk. Every incursion bear has either lost a bil dollar ship or has come really close. It's part of the learning process. And you can get ganked. I've seen it time and time again. I think vangaurds should pay out less considering a very well run organized fleet can finish them in about 4 minutes on average.
Elsa Nietchize School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 8	Posted - 2012.03.16 18:28:00 - [43] - Quote Things were better when every 0.0 alliance had a few systems full of sanctums. I could pull 20m+ a tick solo instead of having to go 22 jumps, wait for a fleet invite, wait for afk people and then contest the limited sites with 140 other people. nerf incursions, bring back sactums in every upgraded 0.0 system.
Ackemi Phenome Tactical 0	Posted - 2012.03.16 18:46:00 - [44] - Quote I've just spent my first two days running incursions. Just to be obtuse I'll tell you what I like about them: It'll be harder for bots to infiltrate it! Maybe now mission/ratting bots will have less relevance when compared to a real person who wants to play the game. ... ???? Profit?
Mfume Apocal Origin. 349	Posted - 2012.03.16 22:56:00 - [45] - Quote Rath Kelbore wrote: Mfume Apocal wrote: Ikra Atarm wrote: No as u can't run those all days an the Price is dropping and I did fly incursions then I joined fw an. U do get groups such as NPo who have amazing logi it's pretty safe it's not the payout is to high it's the isk reward is to high name one thing I can sit down an earn a constant 100m an hr for 12 hours ? Fighters assigned to a 4 BCU Tengu in a Sanctum/Haven system. Nullsec missioning (assuming you either control the pocket or haven't pissed off everyone there). L5s. In Highsec? Dude didn't say anything about highsec. Realistically, there is market pvp in a hub system, some kinds of missions (although that might have changed).
Michael Torrez Zervas Aeronautics Otas Federation 1	Posted - 2012.03.17 06:07:00 - [46] - Quote Bad Messenger wrote: Getting lot of isk without any risk (at least on experienced fleet) makes different EVE areas unbalanced. If you have Fleet of 10 people you can make 1b/ hour for fleet + lp so if they farm like 1 month 4 hours a day, they have made 120b isk so that is 12b / head in month without risk. No wonder many 0.0 people farm those with alts at least. there are some modz that cost about 12+billon i dont get your point ...a top tier loki cost about a billon+ so i think we need this flow of isk from players ...beacause with out isk there no pvp : ) sooo stop your crying and just make some isk
Michael Torrez Zervas Aeronautics Otas Federation 1	Posted - 2012.03.17 06:10:00 - [47] - Quote Elsa Nietchize wrote: Things were better when every 0.0 alliance had a few systems full of sanctums. I could pull 20m+ a tick solo instead of having to go 22 jumps, wait for a fleet invite, wait for afk people and then contest the limited sites with 140 other people. nerf incursions, bring back sactums in every upgraded 0.0 system. so what your trying to say is that your lazy and want the isk for yourself...... you hit it on the head

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