The forums are currently filled with tears, rage and a generally feeling that high sec is getting screwed by the current CSM. This has peaked my interest because to date, I have seen no evidence of the Mittani or other CSM members causing high sec to be nerfed. Please answer the following if you can:

1. What has been "nerfed" in high sec recently as a direct result of the CSM? More to the point, what in high sec has been nerfed recently, regardless of CSM involvement?

2. Why the hate on the Mittani? Despite my personal views on Goons, I think he has done a pretty good job, but it seems that tons of you disagree with this, why?

3. Why the rage over CSM candidates playstyles? Although I might not be a scammer or a so called "griefer", I understand that they are valid playstyles, and therefore deserve CSM representation if enough people get behind a candidate to make them a CSM.

4. Do people not understand why more people in null are motivated to vote, and why we have a largely (not completely) null sec based CSM (hint is has nothing to do with moon goo, if you don't understand it, please don't sperge about it)? Why are people claiming that the 66% of characters in high sec means that high sec should have automatically get representation?

I know I will get trolled to high heaven, but I'm genuinely interested in what people have to say about the above.

The main beef with a lot of people is that Mighty Mittans is only interested in nullsec and not interested in lowsec/highsec.

Secondly he wears the title of CSM chairman but he actively scams people using that title which is not what it was invented for.

and he and his neckbeard army get the drop on all future plans for the game far in advance of everyone else and his alliance is there to ruin the gameplay of other people.

Stuff like that

1. Insurance payouts. That was a silly (but strangely common sense) nerf

The main beef with a lot of people is that Mighty Mittans is only interested in nullsec and not interested in lowsec/highsec.

Secondly he wears the title of CSM chairman but he actively scams people using that title which is not what it was invented for.

and he and his neckbeard army get the drop on all future plans for the game far in advance of everyone else and his alliance is there to ruin the gameplay of other people.

Stuff like that

The main beef with a lot of people is that Mighty Mittans is only interested in nullsec and not interested in lowsec/highsec.

Secondly he wears the title of CSM chairman but he actively scams people using that title which is not what it was invented for.

and he and his neckbeard army get the drop on all future plans for the game far in advance of everyone else and his alliance is there to ruin the gameplay of other people.

Stuff like that

Nerfing insurance payouts on suicide ganking is actually a highsec buff.

Unless there's a conspiracy which I am not aware of.

There are no CCP rules regarding what the CSM and CSM chairs must be interested in. It's also silly to think that there could be even an way to make sure an CSM person keeps interest in everything uniformly.

He has never scammed anyone using the title, heck he tends to stay out of getting involved in scams directly but often is implicated indirectly.

Right, because goons clearly forsaw the future plan was to nerf tech moons, so they decided to take a region full of tech moons?

[quote=Messoroz][quote=Karn Dulake][quote=Chiggy W]The forums are currently filled with tears, rage and a generally feeling that high sec is getting screwed by the current CSM. This has peaked my interest because to date, I have seen no evidence of the Mittani or other CSM members causing high sec to be nerfed. Please answer the following if you can:

Etc


None of what you said matters, its what a lot of people believe and thats the nub of it

None of what you said matters, its what a lot of people believe and thats the nub of it

Unlimited source of income with little effort (High-Sec Incursion) under Concord protection is a high-sec buff.

Unlimited?! Well in that case let me head to high sec and... oh wait. Looks like the Incursions don't last forever. Looks like another goon lying about game mechanics. DOH!

1. I am unaware of any scams he has been involved in, especially one involving the CSM title, please provide evidence/info

CSM History

The Mittani has been chairman of the CSM for 3 Years Running now. He has substantial power over changes in EvE. He is known for his Anti-Scamming Regimes and Support for Balancing of Supercapitals

3rd Party Services

The Mittani is a well known and Often used 3rd Party for the past 4 Years, He has secured +10 Trillion isk in Trades of Super Capitals and Titans. He was famous for securing the trade of Shrike's Avatar one of the first avatars built and often Vouched for by Other Popular 3rd Parties

As for Mittens scamming using his CSM chair status, there was this wonderful thread a while back

The luxury of my popularity is that I don't have to bother lying to my voters about who and what I am. You get exactly what you voted for: a manipulative sadist who makes no apologies for who or what he is.

...

I ran for CSM on a platform of explicitly being a manipulative bastard, because it takes someone like me to actually bring CCP around to reason.

...

Every CSM represents their own constituents. Some have delusions about 'representing everyone'. I do not.

...

I'd kind of like to see Learning Implants vanish ........ However, this isn't really a major priority for me. I might bring it over beer in Islenskibarinn, but it's not going to be a summit topic and something I expend vast amounts of political capital on, like I have on supercaps.

One CSM stated a point in favor of removing learning implants, as that would be a nerf to highsec income, and he is always in favor of those where possible. Other members of the CSM were quick to object to that suggestion. Another CSM objected to "his peeps being thrown under the bus".

The key question that council members must consider before casting their vote is whether or not the issue at hand has the potential to improve or otherwise benefit the entire EVE society, and not just a select group within the community that was successful in bringing attention to their unique case. Seeing the big pictureGÇöin this case, the needs of a society with over 300.000 individualsGÇöis the primary responsibility of a CSM Representative, and reconciling that view with the interests that won them the election is the greatest challenge they will facein this implementation.

... and ...

CCP is unable to accommodate any issue considered detrimental to the collective interests of EVE , particularly if the issue(s) touch upon meta-level concerns.

The CSM aren't dev's, they cant give you the features or new toys that you long for. They can only deliver a message on our behalf that we the great and grand majority want the ' F ' in FIS to be flying and not fashion. ( Although I think i'd look Boss in a Sombrero or Stetson ) . The more clearly and somewhat aggressively they can deliver that message the more in space content will get fixed, balanced, buffed, and developed.

And that can be done by getting 25% of the vote from last election (So if 40,000 voted; 10,000 needs to support) a thread in the Assembly Hall. Then the CSM is forced to discuss it at the next CSM meeting.

It is in the hands of the players. They very often choose not to do a single thing about it.

Except whine.

People get upset that a CSM rep for 0.0 gets elected and doesn't represent low sec/high sec? So people are basicly getting upset that a candidate they didn't vote for doesn't represent their interests?

You answered your own question, if 66% of Eve is not in null sec it is in CCP's best interest to make sure that 66% of their paying customers get their voices heard.

Except even "if" it passes the voting stage, the next step affords the CSM council to simply vote wether to even include it in their luggage for iceland. So it may not even get to CCP even with voter backing.

Realpost: (you can identify these by the use of capitalization)

There's a common misconception which conflates 'people who post on eveo' with 'the hisec majority'. Only a tiny population of players, some from hisec, bother to post here. A legion of random NPC corp alts whining about me doesn't indicate much about the so-called 'hisec vote', which is itself essentially a myth.

Nullsec is a playstyle and an identity, lowsec is likewise a playstyle and identity. 'Hisec' is so broad that it covers a whole host of activities - missioning, mining, industry, market pvp, empire mercenaries, canflippers, scammers, suicide gankers. This is one of the reasons I find it so entertaining to watch the politically naive try to aim for a 'hisec vote' or position themselves as 'hisec candidates' - the act itself represents a fundamental misunderstanding of how their 'constituents' think and behave.

Another amusing thing is the force of emnity in politics. Politics is fundamentally about the distinction between friend and enemy; your enemies define you. Having a horde of frothing NPC corp trolls all over these forums decrying my sins against hisec and begging for more WiS virtual pants is dynamite. If they didn't exist, I'd have to invent them. The enmity of pvp-optional WiS-loving roleplayers is something I invite and encourage, as they represent everything that I do not.

well, cya~

1. CSM 6 didn't nerf anything.

and showing that you don't undertand PvP is not just shooting someone in the face. Eve is about conflict in all activities. Everything is PvP on some level.

Another amusing thing is the force of emnity in politics. Politics is fundamentally about the distinction between friend and enemy; your enemies define you. Having a horde of frothing NPC corp trolls all over these forums decrying my sins against hisec and begging for more WiS virtual pants is dynamite. If they didn't exist, I'd have to invent them. The enmity of pvp-optional WiS-loving roleplayers is something I invite and encourage, as they represent everything that I do not.

I also am happy to have you on the record as seeming to oppose ambulation and showing that you don't undertand PvP is not just shooting someone in the face. Eve is about conflict in all activities. Everything is PvP on some level.

I remember a certain CSM member wanting to nerf ore in WHs, complaining about people "daytripping" into Class 1 WHs with Hulks (which is impossible due to mass limitations) and then being confronted with it and saying he didn't care about what the truth was effectively in a fireside chat...

Tell me one change or point me to one detail in CSM minutes that would suggest that CSM6 is doing damage to your highsec-no-risk paradise. As far as i can see, the changes in the last year made highsec safer (insurance payout any1?)

They can't. I've asked several of the tinfoil hatters to list one thing CSM6 has done to hurt high sec and have never been provided with an answer.

if you want to claim that the most notorious metagamer in eve doesn't understand non-f1 combat, i look forward to many stomach cramps from paroxysms of laughter as your campaign shambles onwards

seriously, if you want to run 'against' csm6 or 'against' me you should at least do a modicum of research about who i am and how i operate

I dont really get what kind of issues highsec player have anyway, beside wanting to join a good 0.0 alliance (evemail me for more infos, i surely can help).

Its funny how the "highsec"-vote is believed to be the "i dont want risk in my game, i dont want pvp without me allowing it, i do want massive ISK without much effort" crowd.

There are so many groups in highsec that dont want those things.

Be it the producer who is happy about the Interdiction because he can sell more ****. Or the scammer who doesnt care about any of this etc.

But what really bugs me is this "CSM6 wants to kill highsec" .

I mean really? Tell me one change or point me to one detail in CSM minutes that would suggest that CSM6 is doing damage to your highsec-no-risk paradise. As far as i can see, the changes in the last year made highsec safer (insurance payout any1?)

I have the feeling you hate "The Mittani"- Goon CEO and dont really care for "The Mittani"-CSM7 chair but you think that you can hurt (might be a to strong word) him by voting for someone else.


Or you just want more spacebarbies.

Hisec elected Trebor in CSM6 and will likely elect both Trebor and Kelduum in CSM7. Usually the hisec reps are 'hey look, a girl on the internet' or someone from Eve-Uni.

Hisec has had no trouble getting reps on past CSMs; barring the Eve-Uni reps (good folks like Deidra Vaal) they have usually been comical and incompetent (Ankh, here's looking at you, kiddo). I'm quite fond of Trebor though, and support both him and Kelduum for CSM7 should they run.

They can't. I've asked several of the tinfoil hatters to list one thing CSM6 has done to hurt high sec and have never been provided with an answer.

I think you misunderstand why I'm running. It is not so much in oposition of you or the CSM 6. It is in fact because the relationship of the CSM with CPP has changed recently and there is a much greater sense that the CSM does much more to direct CCP's direction in Eve than it ever did before. So props for being part of that evolution.

I am running because if that is the case I want to see some folks in the next CSM that will work on getting CCP to put some attention in Eve going forward for aspects of the game I and I believe a large segment of Eve fill our space days with.

I also believe that the "backlash" many players feel about their perceived activities of the CSM 6 may be an opportunity for candidates that are focused on the areas of the game many believe the CSM 6activiely ignored or opposed.

For example, I bet I gain support everytime anyone in the CSM 6 or members of their constiuency uses the term "space barbiie" or claims the only thing folks in high sec want are more space pants. That drives the wedge between the CSM 6 and a considerable segment of the Eve population deeper every time.

I can't claim to have studied you but I know enough not to underestimate you or the CSM 6.

One final point that is often overlooked. I am not anti-goon in nature. My corp was even in the goon alliance back just before the goons launched for nul. The goons fill a place in the sandbox that help define the natiure of life in the Eve 'verse.

CSM 6 did NOTHING for highsec. It wasn't on their radar. THAT'S why it hurt highsec.

Another year wasted for the majority of Eve (in all it's guises) while the majority of changes suggested, for the betterment of 0.0, were implemented with gusto.

It's that kind of limited geographic CSM input combined with CCP's lack of understanding on where our game is heading that is the problem.

I will state categorically the CSM is not entirely to blame (contrary to popular belief) because empire could do a damn sight more to get off their collective asses to change the status quo.

Oh. The Mitt rumor I like, since it holds the ring of truth, is: To gain status in Goonwhatever you are obliged to post something heroic and worshipful about Mitt. Also, when Mitt posts, Goonwhatever members are required to "like" his posts. Not that I'd believe Mitt would resort to cosmetics...from the pictures I've seen of him that might be a good idea.

However, you have to admire the rugged individualism shown by the Goonwhatever membership as they kowtow along.

What do you want for HighSec?

To summerize:

You run against the CSM6 because you believe that this will get you votes. You dont have an agenda except being "the man of the people" who fights against the evil autocrats that oppress your people.

Three words:

Gallente Ice Interdiction.

High sec tears linger a lot longer than normal tears. they'll be talking about it for years.

if you want to claim that the most notorious metagamer in eve doesn't understand non-f1 combat, i look forward to many stomach cramps from paroxysms of laughter as your campaign shambles onwards

seriously, if you want to run 'against' csm6 or 'against' me you should at least do a modicum of research about who i am and how i operate

to be fair i thank the goons for this, not only did i mine the ice throughout the 'blockade' with my multiple accounts, but i didnt even lose a single ship, made me billions, so thank you goons

CSM 6 did NOTHING for highsec. It wasn't on their radar. THAT'S why it hurt highsec.

Another year wasted for the majority of Eve (in all it's guises) while the majority of changes suggested, for the betterment of 0.0, were implemented with gusto.

It's that kind of limited geographic CSM input combined with CCP's lack of understanding on where our game is heading that is the problem.

I will state categorically the CSM is not entirely to blame (contrary to popular belief) because empire could do a damn sight more to get off their collective asses to change the status quo.

Just out of curiosity, I am inserting a random thought into this debate to see how both CSM and Issler respond if they decide to.

Hulks and Makinaws - Should 3 tech 1 fit destroyers be able to gank either of these 150mil - 200mil isk ships before concord can destroy those 3 destoyers in a 0.5 hi-sec system? If yes, why? If no, why?

If anyone feels compelled to respond, please answer with more than just, "'Cause hi-sec shouldn't be 100% safe", or "Cause people should be safe in hi-sec"

Feel free to ignore the question as well. Its just a random tidbit in the middle of the debate here.

...I also understand that most of them want what is good for Eve....

Just out of curiosity, I am inserting a random thought into this debate to see how both CSM and Issler respond if they decide to.

Hulks and Makinaws - Should 3 tech 1 fit destroyers be able to gank either of these 150mil - 200mil isk ships before concord can destroy those 3 destoyers in a 0.5 hi-sec system? If yes, why? If no, why?

If anyone feels compelled to respond, please answer with more than just, "'Cause hi-sec shouldn't be 100% safe", or "Cause people should be safe in hi-sec"

Feel free to ignore the question as well. Its just a random tidbit in the middle of the debate here.

The forums are currently filled with tears, rage and a generally feeling that high sec is getting screwed by the current CSM. This has peaked my interest because to date, I have seen no evidence of the Mittani or other CSM members causing high sec to be nerfed. Please answer the following if you can:

1. What has been "nerfed" in high sec recently as a direct result of the CSM? More to the point, what in high sec has been nerfed recently, regardless of CSM involvement?

The main beef with a lot of people is that Mighty Mittans is only interested in nullsec and not interested in lowsec/highsec.

Secondly he wears the title of CSM chairman but he actively scams people using that title which is not what it was invented for.

and he and his neckbeard army get the drop on all future plans for the game far in advance of everyone else and his alliance is there to ruin the gameplay of other people.

Stuff like that

I'm looking forward to some other responses!

1. I am unaware of any scams he has been involved in, especially one involving the CSM title, please provide evidence/info

On the surface this seems unbalanced. Again, this is quick off the top of my head answer but I'd be inclined to solve this with buffs to the stats on the T2 mining barges. At some point there is going to be a point where enough small cheap ships could always suicide gank almost anything.

There is nothing that says he has to pander to highseccers, yet highsec has in fact received small buffs (aside from the general improvements from crucible) i.e. the removal of insurance payouts for suicide gankers.

To the insurance payouts that I expect you think nerfed suidcide ganking, it was already pre-emptied it would never impact it. Certain suicide gankers have been reporting they can earn a plex in an afternoon from the activity, might be largley to do with the new tier 3 BC's that are a large alpha gun platform much cheaper than a BS, or the improvement to dessies. And you seem to think your hard done by, and nothing went in your favour?

2. Why the hate on the Mittani?

There are no CCP rules regarding what the CSM and CSM chairs must be interested in. It's also silly to think that there could be even an way to make sure an CSM person keeps interest in everything uniformly.

He has never scammed anyone using the title, heck he tends to stay out of getting involved in scams directly but often is implicated indirectly.

Right, because goons clearly forsaw the future plan was to nerf tech moons, so they decided to take a region full of tech moons?

Not really a nerf......but war on Blue Ice wasn't exactly a help.

......and the addition of unneeded glass cannon cheap Gankboats as the NEEDED new ship class. B S.

Not really a nerf......but war on Blue Ice wasn't exactly a help.

......and the addition of unneeded glass cannon cheap Gankboats as the NEEDED new ship class. B S.

Neither of these had anything to do with the CSM.

......and the addition of unneeded glass cannon cheap Gankboats as the NEEDED new ship class. B S.

Yes these single use specialised boats are such a stupid addition......

oh wait you mean that you can use them for all sort s of things and loads of people fly them?

but how can I fit that fact into my myopic world view????

(also as has been pointed out - nothing to do with the CSM)