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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2765
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 17:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'll keep this brief for all you TL;DRers.
The problem: For a lot of LP store items, it is simply unprofitable (even, in some cases, virtually impossible) to acquire the tags required to purchase items, due to really low drop rates of particular tags. In addition, the distribution of antifaction missions is really lopsided (for example, in Gallente space, the main antifaction missions are Pot and Kettle and In the Midst of Deadspace...where the enemy is Amarr. Nice going, CCP!).
The solution: Split the distribution of missions, so that either wholly anti-pirate or anti-faction missions are offered. When a capsuleer first approaches their agent, for example, a dialogue box would pop up asking "Hello [name], I can offer you a choice of either political or law and order missions. Which one would you like take?"
I'm sure there are problems somewhere with this but I don't have the time to intricately go through them now. I will later, though.
Thanks for your comments/ideas/supports/trolls.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |

mxzf
Shovel Bros
443
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 18:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm not seeing much of an issue with this. I would suggest putting another two buttons next to the "Request Mission" button for the agent and have them be "Request anti-pirate mission" and "Request anti-faction mission", which would actually help both the missioners that care about their standings (no more 4h waiting period) and the missioners who want tags to sell (no more pirate missions with no tags). And there would still be the "Request Mission" giving out completely random missions for people who just don't care.
With any luck, and enough people running anti-faction missions for the tags, this could help to drive down tag prices (which I would see as a very good thing). As long as all three options remain a choice at all times, and you don't lock yourself into a certain set when you first talk to the agent, it sounds fine to me. |

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2766
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 18:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nice idea. The idea you proposed is essentially the same as mine :) I meant to clarify in the OP that the choice wouldn't be permanent - you could always back out of, say, choosing political missions and instead go with anti-pirate.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2766
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 18:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yes, looking back over the OP I really meant to add that in lol :) well done for bringing it out to the fore :P
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |

mxzf
Shovel Bros
445
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 19:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Nice idea. The idea you proposed is essentially the same as mine :) I meant to clarify in the OP that the choice wouldn't be permanent - you could always back out of, say, choosing political missions and instead go with anti-pirate.
Sounds perfectly fine to me then. And, yeah, I was hoping that's what you meant, I just wanted to make sure (and I had what seems like a good idea for where the choice could be, so I figured I'd toss that in too). |

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2767
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 19:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thanks - your suggestion in your first post helps the old and senile to focus their thoughts :)
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |

ShipToaster
131
|
Posted - 2012.02.03 21:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:The problem: For a lot of LP store items, it is simply unprofitable (even, in some cases, virtually impossible) to acquire the tags required to purchase items
Tags need to go. Incursion math? part 1 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=678400#post678400 part 2 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=698871#post698871 |

Bunyip
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.04 04:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Back when they had the agent revamp (removing qualities and changing categories) I suggested this, and I'm still behind this. This will benefit both those who are working up standings through missions, and those who seek to build faction items. Supported. |

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
273
|
Posted - 2012.02.04 06:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sounds like a new spin on the "Oh noes, my precious standings" argument .. clever ploy to use tags as the basis for it, I'll grant you that.
---Warning: Product may contain elements of RP--- Remove ALL tags from high-sec missions, the idea that enemies are allowed to set up shop within the sovereign/policed borders of an Empire's space is ludicrous .. I mean just how bad is the military command structure if they outsource eradication of such cells to lowly station agents.
Tags in FW are plentiful, were they to become a major export item we'd have something to help keep afloat that the solo-bombers can't touch (mainly plexers and 'proper' mission runners who hoard tags). Tags (ie. anti-faction missions) in LS in general makes heaps more sense as navy patrols are few so it is reasonable that an enemy could haul in umpteen megatons of gear to set up a forward base .. would create a market/product dependency between high- and other-sec much closer to what was originally intended in regards to ore, goo etc. ...
You could of course still have your button saying that you want to fight for the Empire in question, the mission would merely take place in nearby LS system and be concluded with agent suggesting you sign up for the militia proper! .. hahahahaha. |

Simeon Whiteheaven
BALKAN EXPRESS
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.04 07:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
There is something in your proposal, it just need a little more work and few improvment. In any case you have my support +1 |

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2777
|
Posted - 2012.02.04 10:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hirana Yoshida wrote:Sounds like a new spin on the "Oh noes, my precious standings" argument .. clever ploy to use tags as the basis for it, I'll grant you that.
---Warning: Product may contain elements of RP--- Remove ALL tags from high-sec missions, the idea that enemies are allowed to set up shop within the sovereign/policed borders of an Empire's space is ludicrous .. I mean just how bad is the military command structure if they outsource eradication of such cells to lowly station agents.
Tags in FW are plentiful, were they to become a major export item we'd have something to help keep afloat that the solo-bombers can't touch (mainly plexers and 'proper' mission runners who hoard tags). Tags (ie. anti-faction missions) in LS in general makes heaps more sense as navy patrols are few so it is reasonable that an enemy could haul in umpteen megatons of gear to set up a forward base .. would create a market/product dependency between high- and other-sec much closer to what was originally intended in regards to ore, goo etc. ...
You could of course still have your button saying that you want to fight for the Empire in question, the mission would merely take place in nearby LS system and be concluded with agent suggesting you sign up for the militia proper! .. hahahahaha.
No, this has nothing to do with standings, and everything to do with the brokeness of the LP store requirements.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
254
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 05:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Yeah its true the gallente store is terrible with the tags. Always cheaper to buy them off of contracts then to redeem them. Kind of sad. Kind of like the idea, but standings loss is still annoying, and wouldnt do anti faction missions because of that. At least not now, always hoped of having a hi SP vindi or kronos then being able to handle the standing loss better. Threads like this generally result in anything positive.
Locked. |

Smiling Menace
Star Nebulae Holdings Inc.
122
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 05:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
Yes I like this idea. Gives you a choice whether to screw up your security status with a faction for the tags or to still be able to wander through all of EVE if you prefer.
As a Gallente pilot that does use the LP stores, I agree that the tag situation in Gallente space is a bit crazy.
+1 |

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2792
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 10:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Thank you for everyone's support :)
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2799
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 10:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
Back to the top :)
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2823
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 09:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
I had thought that one potential objection to this change would be that the prices of LP store items would fall quite dramatically, hurting professional contract traders (such as myself). However, I would be willing to take this hit so that the true splendour of the LP store can be attained.
Any thoughts?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |

Radax Glenn
Stellar Cartography
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 18:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
I would also like to see more done with the LP redemption! |

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2834
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 09:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
I was wondering about your crazy Faction Repair Chit thing - insane :P
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |

Dipluz
Notorious Legion Mildly Intoxicated
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 12:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP will never make adjustment to items, beacuse of their market value and I have always supported that of my 7 years of playing.
Tbh in im for nerfing missions a lot |

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2840
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 12:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
What? Are you serious? If you really have been playing for seven years - or at the very least, paying attention to things - then you can't fail to have noticed how, for instance, they nerfed the market value of meta 4 prop mods by vastly increasing the drop rate.
This proposal is only to increase the tag supply to make the LP stores...you know...viable.
Please understand the proposal before posting.
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |

Lithely Jaine
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 06:49:00 -
[21] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Hirana Yoshida wrote:Sounds like a new spin on the "Oh noes, my precious standings" argument .. clever ploy to use tags as the basis for it, I'll grant you that.
---Warning: Product may contain elements of RP--- Remove ALL tags from high-sec missions, the idea that enemies are allowed to set up shop within the sovereign/policed borders of an Empire's space is ludicrous .. I mean just how bad is the military command structure if they outsource eradication of such cells to lowly station agents.
Tags in FW are plentiful, were they to become a major export item we'd have something to help keep afloat that the solo-bombers can't touch (mainly plexers and 'proper' mission runners who hoard tags). Tags (ie. anti-faction missions) in LS in general makes heaps more sense as navy patrols are few so it is reasonable that an enemy could haul in umpteen megatons of gear to set up a forward base .. would create a market/product dependency between high- and other-sec much closer to what was originally intended in regards to ore, goo etc. ...
You could of course still have your button saying that you want to fight for the Empire in question, the mission would merely take place in nearby LS system and be concluded with agent suggesting you sign up for the militia proper! .. hahahahaha. No, this has nothing to do with standings, and everything to do with the brokeness of the LP store requirements.
o boy what a joke. Guys guys why is the price on items that are very easy to gain so high ? o you mean half the NPC space will shoot me if i gather those Items... o i don't want to do them.
Why is there no supplies ? why are the prices so high i want my LP rewards . MY LP I NEED MY LP. Guys guys Tags are broken. Btw what you propose would make it worst since NONE in their right mind would run ANY faction missions. |

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2884
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 10:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
What are you dribbling about? I exclusively want to fun anti-faction missions.
e: I believe that the only joke here is what you wrote - because you obviously don't comprehend the situation as it stands and, instead, you rattle on and on about god knows what, but certainly not related to the OP.
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |

Obsidiana
White-Noise
102
|
Posted - 2012.02.25 03:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
+1
Face it. We can already do this. We choose agents that are near other agents for a reason. Making it official would let those willing to run tag missions do so, and visa versa.
There is one more thing I suggest:
Increase the drop rate of tags.
That would deflate the prices while increasing the short term income of those willing to run tag missions. Right now, the real problem is that the rate of LP and tags are out of balance. |

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
29
|
Posted - 2012.02.25 05:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
Lithely Jaine wrote:..Btw what you propose would make it worst since NONE in their right mind would run ANY faction missions. If standings are so precious then yes, tags are a bother and a half to acquire. But if you do not care much about standings, do a bit of RP or merely embrace the sandbox of consequence then they are rather bountiful.
What I proposed (yes, Hirana is little old me) would increase tag availability substantially as tag collection is a by-product of FW plexing and giving pilots the choice by way of a button would allow for everyone not in the militias to gather them provided they are not attached at the hip to their standings.
The fact that the principal LP earners (high-sec runners) does not want to tank standings with one faction or another is irrelevant to the question of whether tags are dropping enough .. the tags ARE there, just not free-for-all lying on the ground there. |

Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
58
|
Posted - 2012.02.26 05:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
Not supported.
There exist 3 ways to get faction tags on a semi regular basis: Faction Warfare missions, Faction Warfare complexes and NPC nullsec. Any change to the drop rates would be a boost to high sec mission running and a nerf to FW and 0.0 mission running.
There are actual pilots who make a tidy sum from running those missions and complexes and selling the tags. I know this because I buy tags from them in their theaters of operation. I also take the risk of transporting them to empire.
Want more faction tags? Run FW missions, FW complexes, or 0.0 missions on a regular basis and accept the negative effects caused by that activity.
Edit: There is a fourth way: Level 5 missions (no one seems to collect the tags...at least they do not sell them locally) Patri
Miners! Make Moar Isks Nao! |

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2898
|
Posted - 2012.02.26 09:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Do you not think that the tag requirements for all items are pretty ludicrous, especially since they were set way before FW and the like were twinkles in CCP's eyes - which makes it all the more ridiculous. Additionally, seeing as the distribution of anti-faction missions is mind-bogglingly stupid (anti-Amarr missions for Gallente, anyone?), something definitely has to be done, and forcing people to go out into low and null who simply don't want to leave high sec will accomplish nothing.
CCP seriously needs to look at this situation - it's not a matter of boosting mission running, it's a question of fixing the broken LP stores.
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |

Plaude Pollard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.26 20:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
mxzf wrote:I'm not seeing much of an issue with this. I would suggest putting another two buttons next to the "Request Mission" button for the agent and have them be "Request anti-pirate mission" and "Request anti-faction mission", which would actually help both the missioners that care about their standings (no more 4h waiting period) and the missioners who want tags to sell (no more pirate missions with no tags). And there would still be the "Request Mission" giving out completely random missions for people who just don't care.
With any luck, and enough people running anti-faction missions for the tags, this could help to drive down tag prices (which I would see as a very good thing). As long as all three options remain a choice at all times, and you don't lock yourself into a certain set when you first talk to the agent, it sounds fine to me. I support this idea. I don't know how many times I've been grinding missions for fun and ISK, only to suddenly receive an anti-Amarr mission (funny enough, it's always anti-Amarr missions. Never the other Empire-factions) and have to stop running missions for another 4 hours. It's really annoying when you're already hated by the Amarr, and actually want to improve standings with them by working for their "allies", until you get access to better Amarr-missions...
As for the tag-market, I don't know how that looks. I generally only work for SOE or buy Faction Ammo from other factions, because it's just too bothersome getting those stupid tags for the marginally better faction-modules. |

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2902
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 08:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
Plaude Pollard wrote:mxzf wrote:I'm not seeing much of an issue with this. I would suggest putting another two buttons next to the "Request Mission" button for the agent and have them be "Request anti-pirate mission" and "Request anti-faction mission", which would actually help both the missioners that care about their standings (no more 4h waiting period) and the missioners who want tags to sell (no more pirate missions with no tags). And there would still be the "Request Mission" giving out completely random missions for people who just don't care.
With any luck, and enough people running anti-faction missions for the tags, this could help to drive down tag prices (which I would see as a very good thing). As long as all three options remain a choice at all times, and you don't lock yourself into a certain set when you first talk to the agent, it sounds fine to me. I support this idea. I don't know how many times I've been grinding missions for fun and ISK, only to suddenly receive an anti-Amarr mission (funny enough, it's always anti-Amarr missions. Never the other Empire-factions) and have to stop running missions for another 4 hours. It's really annoying when you're already hated by the Amarr, and actually want to improve standings with them by working for their "allies", until you get access to better Amarr-missions... As for the tag-market, I don't know how that looks. I generally only work for SOE or buy Faction Ammo from other factions, because it's just too bothersome getting those stupid tags for the marginally better faction-modules.
If you support that, like the OP captain - the ideas are the same  
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2927
|
Posted - 2012.03.11 09:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
Back to the top - some good ideas here, let's discuss this some more! - OP updated with mxzf's suggestion
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |

Diamaht Nevain
Avatar Union
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.11 18:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
I like this idea. It would almost have to be a change in the way mission are distributed, changing tag requirements still wouldn't address the lack of tags on the market.
Still, I think people tend to avoid tag missions in general because they don't want to be restricted to one part of high sec. Not sure how to solve that issue. |
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