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mxzf
Shovel Bros
445
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Posted - 2012.02.02 19:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
So you're saying I should create a dozen trial accounts and then let them unsub and just wait for the next FotM and bring them back and pay a bit to instantly train them up to whatever the current FotM is with the pile of SP it gets.
Yeah, no, if you can't pay for the account, you don't train, no 'backdating' SP. If you can do that then I demand the ability to backdate education in RL, so the people who skipped college to work can instantly catch back up with everyone else their age. Oh ... wait ... learning doesn't work that way ... (yeah, it is a RL->Eve analogy, but it does point out how stupid the concept is) |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
445
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Posted - 2012.02.02 19:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Amy Amarr wrote:mxzf wrote:So you're saying I should create a dozen trial accounts and then let them unsub and just wait for the next FotM and bring them back and pay a bit to instantly train them up to whatever the current FotM is with the pile of SP it gets. In response to this I can think of a couple of things. One being that you restrict the age of characters being able to use it. Problem with that is as you said 'waiting'. Other idea is that there's a Skill training speed penalty if you use the SP backdating to acquire the missing Skill points. Such as; If you bought your 'missing' SP back you take a hit to the SP speed dropping it to something like normal Skill speed if you're using +4 implants. As then people would only do such a thing if they deem it 'vital or necessary '. Just to clarify this point. I mean a permanent SP speed hit from then onwards for say the duration of the amount of time you 'reclaimed' from being inactive or even permanent indefinitely
Nothing you've said prevents it from being badly exploited. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
447
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Posted - 2012.02.02 21:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
iNfeck7ed wrote:quiet peasant, people with jobs who support this game you probably paid your whole eve life with plex which doesn't help ccp advance its software or hardware are thinking, shoosh.
Quoting a self-righteous idiot who doesn't realize that CCP gets MORE money because of people who play the game via PLEX (because CCP gets the money either way and PLEXers are even getting someone else to give CCP cash for them to play, which would be one less subscription otherwise). |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
457
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Posted - 2012.02.03 17:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote:How is it that the #1 is exploitable and game breaking while others are not?
Because 1 lets you instantly put points into whatever you want and completely skill for something in an instant. 2 and 3 force either you or the seller of the char to constantly make decisions over the course of two years and live with those decisions when FotM changes.
2 and 3 reward forward-thinking and planning out what you want to train, 1 rewards dumping a bunch of cash into the char and getting an instant FotM char. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
462
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Posted - 2012.02.04 19:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote:OK. I see your point. But isn't it enough that such dumping would effect in lower total SP than with normal training?
Yes, because any dumping of skill points onto a character, however small or large, is abusable; and if there's one thing I know about Eve, it's that people will abuse the crap out of anything they can, however they can.
And I do understand Jasp3r's point about returning chars wanting to 'catch up', but Eve is supposed to have consequences, and a "whoops, I really did want those SP after all" button is completely contrary to the whole mindset of Eve. This is the same situation as the "let me delete skills and re-use the SP" threads, it might be kinda nice for some people, but it would be abused to no end by others, and the abuse would be worse than the benefits.
tl;dr: There are certainly valid(ish) desires for this, I can understand how someone would want the SP that they could have had, but the abuse of the system would far outweigh any and all possible benefits. That's really what I see as the bottom line, that it would hurt Eve more than it would help it. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
478
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Posted - 2012.02.06 15:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Andski wrote:This isn't HoN, WoT or LoL - if you want "pay to win," go play those games.
Actually, I've played LoL and it's very much against P2W, they're extremely clear about that and refuse to let you pay for any in-game advantage; IDK about the other games though.
But your point remains valid, you should never be able to pay for an advantage in Eve, ever. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
484
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Posted - 2012.02.06 16:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Daeva Teresa wrote:EvE is a game, where your choces have meaning. Stop playing is one of these choices and it will have consequences.
I wish I could like this many times over. This is the bottom line of all the argument against this thread and sums it up perfectly. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
495
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Posted - 2012.02.07 20:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Anika Mobius wrote:I support the idea. Anything to boost the size of the EVE community I'm all for.
Going F2P would also boost the size of the community too. I suppose you're all for that?
This proposal would damage Eve far more than it would help it and should never be implemented. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
495
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Posted - 2012.02.07 21:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
1. It is easily exploitable to train FotM characters
....This would reduce variety in what ships are flown and make combat more uniform and FotM ships even more prevalent.
2. It devalues the people who have continued to play Eve for long times
3. It reduces the consequences to your actions (namely the action of unsubscribing)
Anything that allows characters to dump SP into skills all at once at will can (and will) be exploited.
Anything that reduces consequences to a person's choices is against the core philosophy of Eve (choices have consequences).
Of course, if you'd actually read the thread you would have seen these same facts repeated over and over. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
506
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Posted - 2012.02.08 14:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote:mxzf wrote:Anything that allows characters to dump SP into skills all at once at will can (and will) be exploited. Let me remind you again about learning skills removal. If I'm the only person remembering it, doesn't this fact itself indicate how insignificant the matter was on the whole?
Notice how I said "Anything that allows characters to dump SP into skill all at once at will. Learning skill removal was a one-time event, which minimized how much it could be exploited. Making it possible to do that at will, would make it extremely exploitable. Can you see the difference between a one-time thing and an every-single-day thing?
And in response to your other stuff
1. Exploitable up to a point is still exploitable. And you're underestimating the lengths to which people will go to exploit things.
2. How do you know it would never close it significantly? What evidence do you have of that?
3. Yes, it would be that bad.
And it would pretty much destroy the character market, not just add choices. Why buy a char with fixed SP when you can buy one with a pile of SP to assign? Did you notice what happened to any and all chars with Learning skills remaining to assign back when that happened? It rocked the market around pretty good back then IIRC. |
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