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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2007.12.08 09:49:00 - [1] What happened? Will we ever see npc delivery? ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Karanth Gallente Eve's Brothers of Destiny Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2007.12.08 09:51:00 - [2] No, and can I have your stuff? (Don't worry about Interbus, contract it and I'll get it.) All that's left... There is only one sig hijack that matters, the orginal and only member of the hijack squad. me. -Eris. ps Black russians are better then beer. Well, there's not many of us left! -Rauth
Lazarann Ideal Machine	Posted - 2007.12.08 09:54:00 - [3] Supposedly it's coming...hopefully....god only knows when..
Ponderous Thunderstroke Republic War Machine Industries	Posted - 2007.12.08 09:55:00 - [4] Complain louder. Everyone knows that CCP only listens to the loudest complaining.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2007.12.08 09:55:00 - [5] Originally by: Karanth No, and can I have your stuff? (Don't worry about Interbus, contract it and I'll get it.) sure, just let me know the character ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Lazarann Ideal Machine	Posted - 2007.12.08 09:56:00 - [6] Originally by: Erotic Irony Originally by: Karanth No, and can I have your stuff? (Don't worry about Interbus, contract it and I'll get it.) sure, just let me know the character Me, contract it all to Lazarann. Thanks a ton
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2007.12.08 09:59:00 - [7] Originally by: Ponderous Thunderstroke Complain louder. Everyone knows that CCP only listens to the loudest complaining. what makes you think Im complaining ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.12.08 10:35:00 - [8] In all probability the problem is how they balance it. It has to be cheap enough for new players to be able to move about their ships from place to play to facilitate their game but at the same time not allow anyone the ability to avoid hauling. If its too cheap then you make the freighters obselete if they become too expensive then you add in a pointless addition. I think they are right in posponing it untill they can figure out a way that really works.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2007.12.08 11:00:00 - [9] Originally by: Fester Addams In all probability the problem is how they balance it. It has to be cheap enough for new players to be able to move about their ships from place to play to facilitate their game but at the same time not allow anyone the ability to avoid hauling. If its too cheap then you make the freighters obselete if they become too expensive then you add in a pointless addition. I think they are right in posponing it untill they can figure out a way that really works. I think the trade off was time vis-a-vis the cost question; player logistics would always be faster and safer but of course for the player the opportunity cost of hauling/carrier jumping may not outweigh the benefit of ratting in 0.0 or whatever they may do. I saw it as a no lose situation as it meant more options given how we have titan and pos tower mods that constitute the extreme time/cost end of the spectrum, it would make sense to have something at the more accessible end too. ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.12.08 11:18:00 - [10] Edited by: Kerfira on 08/12/2007 11:20:38 IF players were willing to pay decent amounts for getting stuff transported, courier packages would be delivered for them. 50k ISK per jump however, is NOT decent. If you want to attract players to courier contracts (not just noobs without haulers), they have to pay as well as other activities. It takes about 1-2 minutes per jump for a hauler, meaning a max income of 2.25m ISK per hour, and this is assuming you can always find a new cargo at the destination, so a more realistic figure is probably 1-1.5m per hour. Even L2 missions pay better than that! A more realistic figure would be 250k ISK per jump for a hauler full.... For those same reasons, any Interbus implementation can't be better than that, simply because it would destroy a player occupation. So, the Interbus limitation would have to be: 1. High cost per jump (like 250-500k or even more) 2. Time delay of 1-8 days 3. Interbus ships should be attackable 4. Interbus needs to be wardec-able (at the usual cost) 5. No low-sec/0.0 Interbus is a solution for a problem that doesn't really exist, or rather a problem for which there already is a game mechanism. One place where an Interbus solution could be good would be short-hauls. No more than 2 jumps possible. This would allow people to trade in Jita without having to go there.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2007.12.08 11:22:00 - [11] Originally by: Kerfira 50k ISK per jump however, is NOT decent. what are you basing this on ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.12.08 11:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Erotic Irony Originally by: Kerfira 50k ISK per jump however, is NOT decent. what are you basing this on Look further down in my post for the argument. If this is supposed to be a viable player occupation, it has to pay as well as other occupations.... Admittedly I haven't seen the courier prices as of late (downtime when I wrote the post), but they were like that a couple of months ago.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2007.12.08 11:32:00 - [13] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Erotic Irony Originally by: Kerfira 50k ISK per jump however, is NOT decent. what are you basing this on Look further down in my post for the argument. If this is supposed to be a viable player occupation, it has to pay as well as other occupations.... Admittedly I haven't seen the courier prices as of late (downtime when I wrote the post), but they were like that a couple of months ago.... theres no argument based on evidence, its conjecture, just as valid as mine ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Ey'up Miduck	Posted - 2007.12.08 11:36:00 - [14] AND the Interbus could be the Jita solution! Bring it on!
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.12.08 11:37:00 - [15] Originally by: Erotic Irony theres no argument based on evidence, its conjecture, just as valid as mine You're blathering, and not reading my post, or you just want your easy, cheap, no-risk Interbus...... The 50k is reasonably irrelevant to the argument. The real argument is the calculation below of what a proper fee WOULD be! And since this is a player-driven game, with a proper and already implemented player profession for that role, any automatic system implemented MUST be less attractive to use than the player profession. The only problem really is that your internet spacegame ISK'ies are too precious for you to use.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Perplexity	Posted - 2007.12.08 11:41:00 - [16] your all sadly missing the point interbus, isnt about puting anyones game style out the window its about trade hubs. the problem stands. jita is a hell hole why because its cheap and always has what you need. player say stay out of jita? thats not going to happen until interbus comes along and has a small fee for delivery, and not within days within miniutes or the system isnt going to work. it takes long enough to do anything in eve, if you want it to take a hour for 5 jumps to be delivered, people will simply still go and get it. problem not solved. sorry but i dont feel any sympathy to any player that says it will ruin his hauling, tough dont do it afk then.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.12.08 11:51:00 - [17] Edited by: Kerfira on 08/12/2007 11:53:43 Originally by: Perplexity your all sadly missing the point interbus, isnt about puting anyones game style out the window its about trade hubs. the problem stands. jita is a hell hole why because its cheap and always has what you need. player say stay out of jita? thats not going to happen until interbus comes along and has a small fee for delivery, and not within days within miniutes or the system isnt going to work. it takes long enough to do anything in eve, if you want it to take a hour for 5 jumps to be delivered, people will simply still go and get it. problem not solved. sorry but i dont feel any sympathy to any player that says it will ruin his hauling, tough dont do it afk then. Well, I don't think I missed 'the point'.... Originally by: Kerfira One place where an Interbus solution could be good would be short-hauls. No more than 2 jumps possible. This would allow people to trade in Jita without having to go there.... THAT would be a benefit (maybe with a restriction that the service would only be available from high-volume commercial systems)! An EVE-wide cheap Interbus would be an effective removal of a player profession. The more possible professions there are in EVE, the richer the game is! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2007.12.08 11:59:00 - [18] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Erotic Irony theres no argument based on evidence, its conjecture, just as valid as mine You're blathering, and not reading my post, or you just want your easy, cheap, no-risk Interbus...... The 50k is reasonably irrelevant to the argument. The real argument is the calculation below of what a proper fee WOULD be! And since this is a player-driven game, with a proper and already implemented player profession for that role, any automatic system implemented MUST be less attractive to use than the player profession. The only problem really is that your internet spacegame ISK'ies are too precious for you to use.... so much indignation and entitlement and you're attacking me for not having a proper sense of distance, lol--you don't seem to understand that the consistency of game logic is less important than its playability CCP and the players aren't going to lose any sleep over who is going to be left out of this because Eve has two major timesinks, the travel and the mundane operation of buying and selling, while its true there is alot of freedom to buy and sell, the practical reality is that its tedious to assemble it all, move around and really be as dynamic as you or CCP would like to that end WTZ was a small concession and CCP's recognition that while gate to gate travel preserved immersion, it kept players from actually playing the game fundamentally and more time in transit--the interbus scenario represents a similar situation and may offer a similar response, not because they want to but because they may have to thanks to enlargement of loot and the Jita problem that they know they can't defeat without some creativity if anything the carrier changes, jump freighters and bridge networks all point to how while transportation for the better, logistics remained a primitive diversion, something for an alt account or not to be bothered with and as such no one is seriously going to stop playing or be so undermined by interbus that there are unequivocally negative consequences--as you said, eve is a complex game and its colored more by issues of perception, trust, and dynamic opportunity costs than it is by orthodoxy ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.12.08 12:07:00 - [19] Originally by: Erotic Irony to that end WTZ was a small concession and CCP's recognition that while gate to gate travel preserved immersion, it kept players from actually playing the game fundamentally and more time in transit This was not the reason for the WTZ solution. The issue was lag from bookmarks. WTZ was not liked at all by CCP because it made travel easier, but was the least of two evils. Nice rewriting of history there..... You also fail to understand that the only thing in a game like this that makes it attractive is that there is effort involved. If it doesn't require effort, players don't get a sense of achievement when they accomplish something. Sure, that doesn't attract the "Instant Gratification" crowd, but that's not the target group of players for EVE anyway. That is why timesinks as you call them are an integrated and needed part of EVE, because time is the only way you can measure effort in a game. You fail..... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2007.12.08 12:27:00 - [20] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 08/12/2007 12:08:29 Originally by: Erotic Irony to that end WTZ was a small concession and CCP's recognition that while gate to gate travel preserved immersion, it kept players from actually playing the game fundamentally and more time in transit This was not the reason for the WTZ solution. The issue was lag from bookmarks. WTZ was not liked at all by CCP because it made travel easier, but was the least of two evils. Nice rewriting of history there..... You also fail to understand that the only thing in a game like this that makes it attractive is that there is effort involved. If it doesn't require effort, players don't get a sense of achievement when they accomplish something. Sure, that doesn't attract the "Instant Gratification" crowd, but that's not the target group of players for EVE anyway. That is why timesinks as you call them are an integrated and needed part of EVE, because time is the only way you can measure effort in a game. The question isn't effort or no effort, every game and activity takes some time and costs something. The question is the degree of effort, is it congruent with the gameplay outcome--if your logic was perfectly accurate presumably we'd see no changes to gameplay at all since the market is there and people can try to do what they want--the reality is of course more complicated, cloaks, compression, tracking, speed. Yet all these things have changed in the face of a pragmatic approach that favors enhanced playability rather than the doctrinal one that favors an imaginary ideal eve you're so intent on pushing. On top of that we have insurance, the now defunct t2 lottery, and the relative inconsistency of 0.0 resources/POS warfare to deal with as well--none of which have a real consistent logic or that have been "completely" balanced. Indeed, in the absence of infinite skill and time, there are alts that further skew the effort and time logic. Arguably the popularity of alts attests to the exact opposite position you're taking--you can't trust others to do many things so you internalize them and interact even less in this grand mmo sandbox thereby defeating the whole point of playing online. Quote: You fail..... especially at understanding what EVE really is.... no u ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2007.12.08 12:44:00 - [21] Interbus would be my hero. Jita can die in a flaming inferno for all I care now, but saving isk without having to deal with the lag I would love. ________ "It's a good day to die!"
SiJira	Posted - 2007.12.08 12:47:00 - [22] Originally by: Erotic Irony What happened? Will we ever see npc delivery? any change that turns away from player interaction to npc interaction is not good in an mmo eve being what it is makes such a change much worse - so stop asking for something so stupid ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2007.12.08 12:49:00 - [23] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Erotic Irony What happened? Will we ever see npc delivery? any change that turns away from player interaction to npc interaction is not good in an mmo eve being what it is makes such a change much worse - so stop asking for something so stupid brb, getting rid of insurance* *and all other station services ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
SiJira	Posted - 2007.12.08 12:50:00 - [24] Edited by: SiJira on 08/12/2007 12:52:44 Originally by: Perplexity your all sadly missing the point interbus, isnt about puting anyones game style out the window its about trade hubs. the problem stands. jita is a hell hole why because its cheap and always has what you need. player say stay out of jita? thats not going to happen until interbus comes along and has a small fee for delivery, and not within days within miniutes or the system isnt going to work. it takes long enough to do anything in eve, if you want it to take a hour for 5 jumps to be delivered, people will simply still go and get it. problem not solved. sorry but i dont feel any sympathy to any player that says it will ruin his hauling, tough dont do it afk then. you are sadly mistaken you must have missed the milti-player in the mmorpg that eve is Originally by: Erotic Irony Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Erotic Irony What happened? Will we ever see npc delivery? any change that turns away from player interaction to npc interaction is not good in an mmo eve being what it is makes such a change much worse - so stop asking for something so stupid brb, getting rid of insurance* *and all other station services last i checked no player offered those services insurance in a game is an inherently negative sum mechanic for the one handing out the insurance try reading the complete post maybe? none of the station services replaced anything a player could offer ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2007.12.08 12:54:00 - [25] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Erotic Irony Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Erotic Irony What happened? Will we ever see npc delivery? any change that turns away from player interaction to npc interaction is not good in an mmo eve being what it is makes such a change much worse - so stop asking for something so stupid brb, getting rid of insurance* and all other station services last i checked no player offered those services insurance in a game is an inherently negative sum mechanic for the one handing out the insurance try reading the complete post maybe? none of the station services replaced anything a player could offer owned *you've been owned ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2007.12.08 12:56:00 - [26] Originally by: SiJira Edited by: SiJira on 08/12/2007 12:52:44 Originally by: Perplexity your all sadly missing the point interbus, isnt about puting anyones game style out the window its about trade hubs. the problem stands. jita is a hell hole why because its cheap and always has what you need. player say stay out of jita? thats not going to happen until interbus comes along and has a small fee for delivery, and not within days within miniutes or the system isnt going to work. it takes long enough to do anything in eve, if you want it to take a hour for 5 jumps to be delivered, people will simply still go and get it. problem not solved. sorry but i dont feel any sympathy to any player that says it will ruin his hauling, tough dont do it afk then. you are sadly mistaken you must have missed the milti-player in the mmorpg that eve is Originally by: Erotic Irony Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Erotic Irony What happened? Will we ever see npc delivery? any change that turns away from player interaction to npc interaction is not good in an mmo eve being what it is makes such a change much worse - so stop asking for something so stupid brb, getting rid of insurance* *and all other station services last i checked no player offered those services insurance in a game is an inherently negative sum mechanic for the one handing out the insurance try reading the complete post maybe? none of the station services replaced anything a player could offer Since when can a player not remote rep another player? How about a third party insurance corporation? ________ "It's a good day to die!"
SiJira	Posted - 2007.12.08 12:57:00 - [27] Originally by: Erotic Irony owned* *you've been owned dont worry i didnt reply to you expecting an intelligent response from you ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2007.12.08 13:00:00 - [28] Originally by: SiJira Edited by: SiJira on 08/12/2007 12:59:00 Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Since when can a player not remote rep another player? How about a third party insurance corporation? so you think if station services didnt exist people would sit outside stations and offer remote repping for money? no insurance can be made in this game that would be worth taking out while still making profits for the insurer Originally by: Admiral Pelleon I think you're just getting touchy now. nah im good at recognizing trolls Who cares about profit and margins, if this service cost 10m per 100m3 people would still use it. Hell I would. ________ "It's a good day to die!"
SiJira	Posted - 2007.12.08 13:02:00 - [29] Edited by: SiJira on 08/12/2007 13:02:06 Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Who cares about profit and margins, if this service cost 10m per 100m3 people would still use it. Hell I would. what do you mean who cares about profit and margins? why would someone offer insurance if it lost them money? why would someone get insured if it didnt actually reduce their risk? someone loses and so it can not exist because it wouldnt make sense to run ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.08 13:03:00 - [30] Not holding my breath on Interbus But one thing that SHOULD be part of it, if it is ever added..... The fee charged should vary on how soon you want delivery. In fact, I'd make the "fee size vs delivery time" a larger factor then "distance vs delivery time", although both could be factors. In many cases I'd be happy to wait a week or two for delivery. Play nice while you butcher each other.

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