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Waxau
Mortis Angelus
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.12.10 14:11:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Waxau on 10/12/2007 14:14:10
Thought id start this off, as i see it being both a decent pvp boat and (sigh) yes, pve.
However, im gonna start the ball rolling with a pvp setup.
Being a vulture pilot myself, i see the passive tank potential with the onyx. With slightly less shield than the eagle, but with an extra mid, its got the ability to get either 20% extra recharge, or an extra large shield extender. So behold my following setup, focused on tanking with the WDFG active. Note, Damage is not a priority, but tank and the bubble:
High: 1 WDFG
: 5 Assault Launchers II(NOTE - Not HEAVY ASSAULT)
Med: 5 Large Shield Extender II
: 1 Photon Scattering Amp II
Low: 4 Shield Power Relay II
Rigs: 2 Core Defence Field Purger II
Stats (keep in mind EFT....)
20k shield, lowest resist being 66% EM, 85% therm, 77.5% kin, 70% Exp. Recharge of 190 seconds, with my current skills (high passive tanking skills, but not max) and two implants. Shield recharge, and shield hp increase. Tanks a total of 990 dps, and is completely passive bar from that one hardener.
With the base cap, it has enough to run the shield hardener permanently, however problems will arise in roaming gangs, due to the excessive warping, and also - Cap usage of the WDFG is untested.
And the pupose of the Assault Missiles? Nothing else fits, thats of use ^^
Any other ideas out there?
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Ishina Fel
Caldari
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.12.10 14:28:00 -
[2]
You need a MWD. Need need need. It will be of no use while you bubble, of course, but if you cannot follow your gang on a quick double-back maneuver to the gate or cannot get out of anchored enemy bubbles (which can be as large as 50km and more), then you will either get left behind and die, or get everyone else killed along with you.
Unless that setup is for camping a lowsec gate and never moving an inch from it, you need a MWD. It's not optional for any other purpose.
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Splash Whale
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.10 14:31:00 -
[3]
Arent those shiny T2 rigs a bit expensive?
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Waxau
Mortis Angelus
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.12.10 14:32:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Waxau on 10/12/2007 14:33:02
 Originally by: Ishina Fel
You need a MWD. Need need need. It will be of no use while you bubble, of course, but if you cannot follow your gang on a quick double-back maneuver to the gate or cannot get out of anchored enemy bubbles (which can be as large as 50km and more), then you will either get left behind and die, or get everyone else killed along with you.
Unless that setup is for camping a lowsec gate and never moving an inch from it, you need a MWD. It's not optional for any other purpose.
As i said, this isnt a roaming gang ship. With the SPR II, you dont have the cap available. Thus, it is literally a gate camping setup, meant to take a beating. An MWD would just screw up the cap even more, and remove any other ability to warp ^^
Quote:
rent those shiny T2 rigs a bit expensive?
Sorry - my mistake...the figures are with t1 rigs. I just got a bit II happy when typing 
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Ishina Fel
Caldari
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.12.10 14:36:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Waxau
As i said, this isnt a roaming gang ship. With the SPR II, you dont have the cap available. Thus, it is literally a gate camping setup, meant to take a beating. An MWD would just screw up the cap even more, and remove any other ability to warp ^^
Yeah, that more or less is the problem I'm having when pondering setups. As soon as you use a MWD, your passive tank starts to fall apart because you have trouble even keeping the hardeners running.
(For a passive tanked HIC, try a Broadsword though. I ends up with slightly more ressistances, shield recharge, cap and base speed all together when set up like an Onyx.)
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.12.10 14:37:00 -
[6]
with your setup and TI rigs i only get arround 880 dps not 990...
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Waxau
Mortis Angelus
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.12.10 14:39:00 -
[7]
Originally by: d026
with your setup and TI rigs i only get arround 880 dps not 990...
U using the implants too?
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Enuma Elish.
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Posted - 2007.12.10 14:52:00 -
[8]
I was looking at:
4x heavy II, WDF, WDF + script.
10mn MWD, web, 2x LSE, invuln, photon
4x PDS
core defense field extenders.
Idea being you use WDF as a 'catch bag' but turn it off in favour of the focussed mode on as soon as possible. Might be possible to swap out the script fast enough, with judicious 'remove web/swap out script, re-scram' timing, but I'm not sure.
Tank's not quite 'uber insane passive' but is a bit more neut resistant, and testing on SiSi says it tanks for a good long time under sentry fire (15m before I got bored. I think it technically 'broke' but was going down slow enough that I think it's irrelevant)
Not convinced it's much better than the cerb for PvE. You're on approximately the same amount of resists, albeit in a different layout. That 25% EM, because of stacking makes omnitanking easier, but specific colour tanking harder, so ... *shrug*. Having more powergrid and an extra mid though, I guess does make PVE setups easier.
(Disclaimer: I have corpmates eagerly making them at the moment, but the first one ain't finished yet, to ymmv in real PvP situations)
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
AFTRUNX
Human Liberty Syndicate
TALIONIS ALLIANCE
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Posted - 2007.12.10 15:18:00 -
[9]
i go for that one..
decent tank, no cap issues and fast enough... (a middle way setup for small gangs)
[Onyx, ONYX]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Photon Scattering Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Warp Disruption Field Generator I, Focused Warp Disruption
Core Defence Field Purger I
Core Defence Field Purger I
AFT
--------------------------------------------
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MalVortex
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Posted - 2007.12.10 15:19:00 -
[10]
Cerebrus will be considerably better at PVE. You can specific tank rats easily enough by just spamming hardeners and extenders, so while the extra resists are nice, they won't be necessary (neither ship will be all that great for level 4s). The cerebrus will easily pull ahead in PVE though from its ROF and range bonus.
Also, ship resist bonuses are non-stacking nerfed, so they will never make it "harder" to specific-tank a particular damage type (same for DC units).
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OOOSOOO
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.10 17:03:00 -
[11]
Originally by: MalVortex
Cerebrus will be considerably better at PVE. You can specific tank rats easily enough by just spamming hardeners and extenders, so while the extra resists are nice, they won't be necessary (neither ship will be all that great for level 4s). The cerebrus will easily pull ahead in PVE though from its ROF and range bonus.
Also, ship resist bonuses are non-stacking nerfed, so they will never make it "harder" to specific-tank a particular damage type (same for DC units).
Are you serious here? We are talking about a PVP ship. Wow, I hope you are joking.
*hiccup* |
Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2007.12.10 17:06:00 -
[12]
Originally by: MalVortex
Cerebrus will be considerably better at PVE. You can specific tank rats easily enough by just spamming hardeners and extenders, so while the extra resists are nice, they won't be necessary (neither ship will be all that great for level 4s). The cerebrus will easily pull ahead in PVE though from its ROF and range bonus.
Also, ship resist bonuses are non-stacking nerfed, so they will never make it "harder" to specific-tank a particular damage type (same for DC units).
actually, the resists on the HIC's are the same as the HAC's with extra resists on top of their shield or armor, depending of the race.
of course that the only one that isn't change that much is the devoter, since the T1 hull (and consequently the sacriledge) had a 5% armor resist per amarr cruiser level already.
However, all in all, these things are more tanky than their HAC brothers.
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planetary interaction idea! |
MalVortex
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Posted - 2007.12.10 17:57:00 -
[13]
It was in response to a post a bit of a ways up. I have no idea why anyone would purposefully PVE out of a hactor past spur of the moment ratting.
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Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2007.12.10 18:00:00 -
[14]
Originally by: MalVortex
It was in response to a post a bit of a ways up. I have no idea why anyone would purposefully PVE out of a hactor past spur of the moment ratting.
whoops
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planetary interaction idea! |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Enuma Elish.
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Posted - 2007.12.10 18:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: MalVortex
It was in response to a post a bit of a ways up. I have no idea why anyone would purposefully PVE out of a hactor past spur of the moment ratting.
Beca amount of resists, and a useful amount more powergrid means it can make a pretty good PvE tank, but at somewhat lower dps than the cerb.
But it is bad and wrong, in so many ways. But not quite as bad as that PvE rook thread I saw a few days back...
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Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
Waxau
Mortis Angelus
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.12.10 20:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: MalVortex
It was in response to a post a bit of a ways up. I have no idea why anyone would purposefully PVE out of a hactor past spur of the moment ratting.
Beca amount of resists, and a useful amount more powergrid means it can make a pretty good PvE tank, but at somewhat lower dps than the cerb.
But it is bad and wrong, in so many ways. But not quite as bad as that PvE rook thread I saw a few days back...
Lol - that was a fun thread :)
But no - I initially mentioned PvE as from what i saw, it combined the eagles tank, with the cerbs range (but not RoF). Tank being what the cerb often lacks in lv 4's for example. But in no way was i cordoning it! 
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.12.10 20:45:00 -
[17]
Gatecamping Onyx
1|2|3|4|5. |
Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2007.12.10 21:04:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Akita T
Gatecamping Onyx
I said this one and I'll say it again:
while all skills at lvl5 can show the potential of ship Y or X, one could argue that lvl4 skills are the most reasonable.
this is the reason why many diss out EFT.
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planetary interaction idea! |
Waxau
Mortis Angelus
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.12.11 00:12:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Akita T
Gatecamping Onyx
I said this one and I'll say it again:
while all skills at lvl5 can show the potential of ship Y or X, one could argue that lvl4 skills are the most reasonable.
this is the reason why many diss out EFT.
Yup - I only use my true skills, and even then dont trust it. And btw Akita - Fit purgers instead of extenders. You'll get more dps in the tank.
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Xyleya
moon7empler
Ev0ke
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Posted - 2007.12.11 02:06:00 -
[20]
High: 5x HML II, WDFG with Script
Meds: Y-T8 MWD, 4x LSE II, Magnetic Amp II
Lows: 3x PDU II, SPR II
Rigs: 2x Core Defence Field Purger I
CapStable when MWD is not running (WDFG needs alot of CAP!), but needs AWU 5 and Shield Upgrades 5 to fit.
I'm MinMatar specced, so I fly the Broadsword with the same tank, but 220mm AC II instead and it fits even better then the Onyx 
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*yarr* |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.12.11 02:25:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Waxau
btw Akita - Fit purgers instead of extenders. You'll get more dps in the tank.
I am fully aware of the particularities of passive shield tanking, thank you very much
That specific "gatecamping" setup is HP-focused, not regen-focused, in case you haven't noticed.
Originally by: Grimpak
while all skills at lvl5 can show the potential of ship Y or X, one could argue that lvl4 skills are the most reasonable.
this is the reason why many diss out EFT.
Tank-wise, the only relevant "L5 skills" in this HP-based setup were Shield Management, Shield Op, and the prerequisites for Siege Warfare Mindlink.
The only two that are required on the Onyx pilot itself are Sh.Man. and Sh.Op., which are rank 3 and rank 1.
I find it hard to believe it's "unreasonable" to believe an Onyx pilot has trouble getting them, if he didn't already have'em.
1|2|3|4|5. |
Atsuko Ratu
Caldari
Advanced Logistics
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Posted - 2007.12.11 04:05:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 11/12/2007 04:13:55
Originally by: OOOSOOO
Originally by: MalVortex
Cerebrus will be considerably better at PVE. You can specific tank rats easily enough by just spamming hardeners and extenders, so while the extra resists are nice, they won't be necessary (neither ship will be all that great for level 4s). The cerebrus will easily pull ahead in PVE though from its ROF and range bonus.
Also, ship resist bonuses are non-stacking nerfed, so they will never make it "harder" to specific-tank a particular damage type (same for DC units).
Are you serious here? We are talking about a PVP ship. Wow, I hope you are joking.
Read op 2nd guy; he said it's both but he will "start with a PVP setup"
Edit: Having all relavent passive skills at 5 is a pretty easy task with this ship. The only two skills that improve the base passive tank (without fitting, which isn't that much harder), is a rank 1 and a rank 3. My character started with the rank 1 at lvl 5 . Also, in order to fly the ship, you would already have caldari cruiser 5, giving you the tank bonus on the ship. Using t2 modules is gained with mostly skills at lvl 4, which most people who argue against level 5 skills deem appropriate.
So, extra 15 days to get that one skill to 5 isn't that demanding of a task. I have the rank 3 skill at 4 myself (I don't passive tank), and it only makes the tank slightly worse (about 50 dps-tanked). If I flew this ship this way, I would probably sink in the 15 days anyway. That same skill (% to total shield per level), helps nano tanks as well, because most of them shield-buffer.
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Chomapuraku
Templar Republic
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.12.11 04:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Akita T
Gatecamping Onyx
didn't think you could make a doomsday omni-tank setup in a cruiser, but this one fits the bill perfectly. then again, if you needed to tank a doomsday but didn't know what type, let's just say don't expect to survive long enough to lock the titan...
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Requiescat
Caldari
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2007.12.11 05:36:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Waxau
High: 1 WDFG
: 5 Assault Launchers II(NOTE - Not HEAVY ASSAULT)
Med: 5 Large Shield Extender II
: 1 Photon Scattering Amp II
Low: 4 Shield Power Relay II
Rigs: 2 Core Defence Field Purger I
As with any ship that's certain to be primary, has a hardcapped tankable DPS limit, and has low mobility, wouldn't you want to add a smartbomb?
Victory - Honor = Loss |
Waxau
Mortis Angelus
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.12.11 11:29:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Requiescat
Originally by: Waxau
High: 1 WDFG
: 5 Assault Launchers II(NOTE - Not HEAVY ASSAULT)
Med: 5 Large Shield Extender II
: 1 Photon Scattering Amp II
Low: 4 Shield Power Relay II
Rigs: 2 Core Defence Field Purger I
As with any ship that's certain to be primary, has a hardcapped tankable DPS limit, and has low mobility, wouldn't you want to add a smartbomb?
You could very much, yeah. Downside is again - The cap. You literally barely have enough to run the single hardener. But yes, it is possible.
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