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Stanya	Posted - 2007.12.11 03:19:00 - [61] Originally by: GO MaZ ...and they shot at the POS less than 30 minutes before the forum post stating POS warfare is allowed again classic.. umm, pos warfare is defined an exploit...... ... and you go shooting things before its officially announced that you can... pure win.
GO MaZ Spartan Industries	Posted - 2007.12.11 03:27:00 - [62] Originally by: Stanya Originally by: GO MaZ ...and they shot at the POS less than 30 minutes before the forum post stating POS warfare is allowed again classic.. umm, pos warfare is defined an exploit...... ... and you go shooting things before its officially announced that you can... pure win. 6 hours AFTER a patch which said in the MOTD it was to solve the POS issues... conflicting signals much?
Stanya	Posted - 2007.12.11 03:38:00 - [63] Edited by: Stanya on 11/12/2007 03:38:47 not at all. never assume anything
GO MaZ Spartan Industries	Posted - 2007.12.11 03:47:00 - [64] Edited by: GO MaZ on 11/12/2007 03:46:49 Originally by: Stanya Edited by: Stanya on 11/12/2007 03:38:47 not at all. never assume anything Permabanning 2+ people who've played since 03/04 is just punishment for killing a couple of bestowers, a hulk and a few corp hangar arrays in error at an offline POS C/D? Also, donges.
Ari Chu Perkone	Posted - 2007.12.11 04:06:00 - [65] I was very surprised that they are currently allowing POS warfare again TBH. After announcing the Ban on the warfare - I imagine some people jumpcloned (for whatever reason), expecting that they would have atleast 24 hours notice that they needed to jump back and get ready to resume POS battles... ... wow was I wrong. BTW - I specifically remember requesting a 24 hour notification so that players would know without a doubt when POS warfare could resume... which would minimize the confussion which could lead to players getting banned for participating before they were supposed to. --- "The Galaxy is only as big as you make it." - presumably Eve Game Designers.
Admiral Nova Strike Team Nova	Posted - 2007.12.11 05:55:00 - [66] Originally by: GO MaZ 6 hours AFTER a patch which said in the MOTD it was to solve the POS issues... conflicting signals much? It was attempting to. It however DID NOT, fix all the POS issues, most people are surprised that POS Warfare was re-allowed and many more are surprised that they didn't give 24hrs warning. Instead your guys attempted to exploit the fact that the owners of the POS you attacked probably were not online and had no idea that a ban had been lifted (Which it had not.) MOTD says they're attempting to fix POS issues, that you can assume they mean they have been fixed it a stretch, and even if they had it didn't say the ban had been lifted, it said they were trying to fix the issues. ISSUES that had been around for almost 5 days before the BAN proving that the ban and the issues don't exactly coincide with timeframe. Your alliance also jumped a fleet into a system with a cyno jammer before being turned arround by a GM, you've been non-stop attempting to exploit this since patch day. Even Goonswarm and BoB and hell, just about every big alliance out there has been giving POS warfare the wide berth it deserves even before the ban.
GO MaZ Spartan Industries	Posted - 2007.12.11 06:00:00 - [67] Edited by: GO MaZ on 11/12/2007 06:01:13 Originally by: Admiral Nova Originally by: GO MaZ 6 hours AFTER a patch which said in the MOTD it was to solve the POS issues... conflicting signals much? It was attempting to. It however DID NOT, fix all the POS issues, most people are surprised that POS Warfare was re-allowed and many more are surprised that they didn't give 24hrs warning. Instead your guys attempted to exploit the fact that the owners of the POS you attacked probably were not online and had no idea that a ban had been lifted (Which it had not.) MOTD says they're attempting to fix POS issues, that you can assume they mean they have been fixed it a stretch, and even if they had it didn't say the ban had been lifted, it said they were trying to fix the issues. ISSUES that had been around for almost 5 days before the BAN proving that the ban and the issues don't exactly coincide with timeframe. Your alliance also jumped a fleet into a system with a cyno jammer before being turned arround by a GM, you've been non-stop attempting to exploit this since patch day. Even Goonswarm and BoB and hell, just about every big alliance out there has been giving POS warfare the wide berth it deserves even before the ban. I think you'll find just about everyone in TRI has been spamming GM's with petitions about the POS issues and afaik we've been handled pretty poorly, being **** about by a load of different GM's telling us yes and no to everything before finally getting a proper response when GM Grimmi made a forum post... If the patch deployed during downtime on the 10th didn't work, then why the hell did they allow POS warfare again, bear in mind the post was made literally 30 minutes after people shot at that POS? NOTHING CHANGED... This whole issue has been handled incredibly poorly and even if it wasn't some of my corpmates who ended up permabanned for it I'd be **ed
Virtuozzo IRON Tech Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.12.11 07:42:00 - [68] Edited by: Virtuozzo on 11/12/2007 07:43:35 Originally by: GO MaZ If the patch deployed during downtime on the 10th didn't work, then why the hell did they allow POS warfare again, bear in mind the post was made literally 30 minutes after people shot at that POS? NOTHING CHANGED... Because they're being pushed and pulled in 10 different directions with too little time to fully work things out. Originally by: GO MaZ This whole issue has been handled incredibly poorly and even if it wasn't some of my corpmates who ended up permabanned for it I'd be ****ed Yup. I see a LOT of hard work from overworked GM's though, but even with this affecting only a part of EVE the sheer load is still weighing down.
Star Nove Minmatar	Posted - 2007.12.11 09:48:00 - [69] Would it not be wise to take the server down at DT and leave it down until these problems are fixed? If I have to travel 10 jumps each way to offline, unlink and online 2 jump bridges again, I'm going to lose my sense of humour.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.11 12:21:00 - [70] In my opinion if people get told not to engage in POS warfare by a GM and then start doing it again before a GM tells them that it is ok, they are idiots and deserve to be banned. CCP made the ban on POS warfare, and CCP lifts it. They didn't wait for it to be lifted.
GO MaZ Spartan Industries	Posted - 2007.12.11 15:59:00 - [71] Originally by: Virtuozzo Because they're being pushed and pulled in 10 different directions with too little time to fully work things out. This is why it should've been done at downtime
Eacham Graeme Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.12.11 16:23:00 - [72] Edited by: Eacham Graeme on 11/12/2007 16:24:09 Let me figure this out again: CCP says no POS warfare at such and such a time, or you will be severly dealt with. Group A violates a clearly posted and written rule and engages in POS warfare. Wherein lies the problem? They broke the rules, plain and simple. If it had been 1 hour, 6 hours, or 24 hours before the announcement was made to resume POS warfare, it would have changed nothing. They were told, and they broke those rules. The jury rules GUILTY AS CHARGED Blasted POS' are still broke and need fixed pretty danged quick...but that is another issue altogether.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.11 17:48:00 - [73] Originally by: Eacham Graeme Edited by: Eacham Graeme on 11/12/2007 16:24:09 Let me figure this out again: CCP says no POS warfare at such and such a time, or you will be severly dealt with. Group A violates a clearly posted and written rule and engages in POS warfare. Wherein lies the problem? Well I read that MOTD as it's allowed again as well, which even made me think wow that was fast. The issue is how they communicated this: 1. POS Warfare ban was broadcasted ingame 2. POS Warfare ban lift got a forum post only and later an news item to the right once you are logged in? This is how it should have been done: 1. Broadcast POS Warfare ban and stick it as MOTD and on forums and as news article. 2. Announce the POS Warfare ban will be lifted after DT on day x and stick it as MOTD and on forums and as news article. I mean it's not like you can send a petition: just to clarify are we allowed to attack this POS we found in xxx now? It will prolly be a couple of weeks before Trinity 2 when that response arrives. Well they could have send in a stuck petition with that question and gotten a prompt response but then again they would prolly have been banned for abusing the stuck petition system. If you want to send out a message to your customers then make sure your communication mechanism are in place and people know what to expect before permabanning your customers. IMHO i dont even find a warning to be the correct way to go as the MOTD read that it was fixed (or could be read as such). ----------------------------------------------- iskies + my wallet = <3 Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
Admiral Nova Strike Team Nova	Posted - 2007.12.11 18:49:00 - [74] Edited by: Admiral Nova on 11/12/2007 18:49:52 Originally by: GO MaZ If the patch deployed during downtime on the 10th didn't work, then why the hell did they allow POS warfare again, bear in mind the post was made literally 30 minutes after people shot at that POS? NOTHING CHANGED... This whole issue has been handled incredibly poorly and even if it wasn't some of my corpmates who ended up permabanned for it I'd be ****ed My bet is that they had jumped into a cyno jammed system before the patch, most of your alliance was warned and moved by GMs for this, they were able to escape detection / sneak into another system and continued to exploit AFTER being warned. Sorry, you cheat you get banned. You even got warned, and you still try it. If a GM posts that it's dissallowed, only a GM posting again that it IS allowed is acceptable resolution of that. Even before it was disallowed you could have been banned for it, and even after the ban has been lifted you can still be banned for it due to the OTHER exploit with the 0ROF dreads. So you have corpmates trying their hardest to exploit this and the GMs are busy enough as it is. This is really pathetic and you make your whole alliance look like whiny little cheaters who are complaining because they got caught deliberately breaking the rules for their own advantage multiple times got warned, and STILL continued to exploit.
Malibu Stacey Gallente Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.11 19:34:00 - [75] Originally by: GO MaZ I think you'll find just about everyone in TRI has been spamming GM's with petitions about the POS issues and afaik we've been handled pretty poorly, being **** about by a load of different GM's telling us yes and no to everything before finally getting a proper response when GM Grimmi made a forum post... If the patch deployed during downtime on the 10th didn't work, then why the hell did they allow POS warfare again, bear in mind the post was made literally 30 minutes after people shot at that POS? NOTHING CHANGED... This whole issue has been handled incredibly poorly and even if it wasn't some of my corpmates who ended up permabanned for it I'd be *ed Epic post of epic win. "Everyone" in your alliance has been petitioning GMs about the POS issues (your words, see the first line of the quote) so you decide to go exploit someone else's POS & then whine when your corp and/or alliance mates get banned for it? I'm sure you'd just suck it up if some corp or alliance decided to do the same to you right? Right? The irony is clearly wasted here. --- Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!*
GO MaZ Spartan Industries	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:10:00 - [76] Originally by: Malibu Stacey Epic post of epic win. "Everyone" in your alliance has been petitioning GMs about the POS issues (your words, see the first line of the quote) so you decide to go exploit someone else's POS & then whine when your corp and/or alliance mates get banned for it? I'm sure you'd just suck it up if some corp or alliance decided to do the same to you right? Right? The irony is clearly wasted here. Two seperate issues. Any capital ops we had planned were BEFORE the POS warfare ban was put into place; after a **load of petitioning, GM Grimmi finally posts saying that POS ops are banned, and our ops were cancelled. AFAIK, no-one exploited anything since we all stopped when the ban was put in place. A patch is then applied at downtime on the 10th, with a nice little MOTD as the server comes up stating rather ****ly it's to fix the POS issues, people assume that with a fix it's now allowed to shoot posses again. Roaming gang comes across an offline POS, decides to shoot it since they believed the POS warfare ban was lifted 6 hours earlier when the patch was applied, resulting in 2 x permabans, 1 x 7 day ban, 1 x warning and 1 x nothing... When the punishment for breaking these rules are so severe, who the ** in their right mind would break it deliberately (KNOWING 100% that the ban was still on) to kill a couple of haulers and a corp hangar....
Captain Havoc Caldari Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:17:00 - [77] I'm not 100% sure about this but as i remember in the management screen of POS's under "Structures" > "Access" i was pretty damn sure you could set the "Use" section of the access for a jump bridge to "Alliance" now it has no setting, which i am pretty sure is what's stopping alliance members from using them, they will need to release another patch to fix that. Also the known issue where you offline one end of a link and the other end becomes stuck (JB on other end goes offline but acts like it's still online) is still there, which they said they would fix in Trinity. Dark Centuri Inc. POS Director FIX POS Logistics Coordinator
Eacham Graeme Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.12.11 21:03:00 - [78] Originally by: GO MaZ Originally by: Malibu Stacey A patch is then applied at downtime on the 10th, with a nice little MOTD as the server comes up stating rather ******ly it's to fix the POS issues, people assume that with a fix it's now allowed to shoot posses again. When the punishment for breaking these rules are so severe, who the ** in their right mind would break it deliberately (KNOWING 100% that the ban was still on) to kill a couple of haulers and a corp hangar.... Sorry Dude, I don't have a dog in this fight, but no matter how you mince and dice this subject, your people got caught with their hands in the cookie jar and are now paying the price. We all know what happens when you assume something... With as broke as the game has been as of late, making an assumption about the fix actually working and that all will be returned to normal... Well, your folks got what they deserved, if for no other reason, than making such a silly assumption in the first place. Consider it an application of Darwin's Law
Kery Syander The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.11 22:37:00 - [79] Yeah, it totally makes sense for GMs to ban as many people as possible for CCP's awful communication with the playerbase. -----
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.11 23:00:00 - [80] How could you possibly understand a statement saying that they are deploying a patch intended to fix the POS issues as a lift on the ban on POS warfare?
Niffetin Gallente CONsordium Infinate	Posted - 2007.12.12 06:45:00 - [81] Someone got banned over this? Damn those GM's must have lots of sticks up their arses. WTS: Armageddon / Void L / Mobile Large Warp Disruptor
Admiral Nova Strike Team Nova	Posted - 2007.12.12 08:09:00 - [82] Originally by: Kery Syander Yeah, it totally makes sense for GMs to ban as many people as possible for CCP's awful communication with the playerbase. That POS warefare was banned was about the only thing they had clearly communicated to the playerbase. Banning them was about the only thing they have done that DOES make sense.
Admiral Nova Strike Team Nova	Posted - 2007.12.12 08:10:00 - [83] Originally by: Niffetin Someone got banned over this? Damn those GM's must have lots of sticks up their arses. This shows they are at least capbable of pulling them out and using them some of the time when required.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2007.12.12 09:57:00 - [84] this thread is now about Go MaZ and bans, ok go ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Tobiron Cohortes Vigilum Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.12 11:45:00 - [85] Warning, I will be going back on topic 37 words from now on. We don't know the full details of why anyone was banned and probably should not be discussing it anyway. I sure there is an appeal procedure and I expect this is what is called a fluid situation In hind sight (beautiful thing that it is), It would have been better to announce that POS warfare would be derestricted from a given time and date. To announce this kind of thing immediately gives an advantage to the few and not all. However, the kids at CCP are clearly under fire from all directions and it's unrealistic to expect perfect communication and actions at this time. What they have done is important but what CCP do in the end is what is really matters.
Tellok Shadow Company FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.12.12 12:07:00 - [86] loging in and out of game whenever is by ccp's own words not concidered an exploit. please can you get some consistancy in this area.
Akrinos LuCont Gallente No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.12.12 21:13:00 - [87] For the HORDE!!!!!....oops. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
Siresa Talesi	Posted - 2007.12.12 22:31:00 - [88] Originally by: GO MaZ Edited by: GO MaZ on 11/12/2007 06:01:13 Originally by: Admiral Nova Originally by: GO MaZ (stuff) (more stuff) I think you'll find just about everyone in TRI has been spamming GM's with petitions about the POS issues and afaik we've been handled pretty poorly, being **** about by a load of different GM's telling us yes and no to everything before finally getting a proper response when GM Grimmi made a forum post... If the patch deployed during downtime on the 10th didn't work, then why the hell did they allow POS warfare again, bear in mind the post was made literally 30 minutes after people shot at that POS? NOTHING CHANGED... This whole issue has been handled incredibly poorly and even if it wasn't some of my corpmates who ended up permabanned for it I'd be *ed By your own admission, the event took place before* the ban was lifted. Whether 30 minutes or 30 seconds, this qualifies as a violation, no other way around it. Originally by: GO MaZ Originally by: Malibu Stacey (still more stuff) Two seperate issues. Any capital ops we had planned were BEFORE the POS warfare ban was put into place; after a **load of petitioning, GM Grimmi finally posts saying that POS ops are banned, and our ops were cancelled. AFAIK, no-one exploited anything since we all stopped when the ban was put in place. A patch is then applied at downtime on the 10th, with a nice little MOTD as the server comes up stating rather ****ly it's to fix the POS issues, people assume that with a fix it's now allowed to shoot posses again. Roaming gang comes across an offline POS, decides to shoot it since they believed the POS warfare ban was lifted 6 hours earlier when the patch was applied, resulting in 2 x permabans, 1 x 7 day ban, 1 x warning and 1 x nothing... When the punishment for breaking these rules are so severe, who the ** in their right mind would break it deliberately (KNOWING 100% that the ban was still on) to kill a couple of haulers and a corp hangar.... (boldface/italics added for emphasis) You assumed. You did not verify. There was nothing in the MOTD to indicate that the ban was lifted, only that they were attempting to fix the issues behind the ban, meaning you read something into the message that was not there. I can understand why you and your friends are upset over this, but the truth of the matter is that the fault is yours. You misread, you misunderstood, and you screwed up. Never make assumptions on matters where you can't afford to be wrong. You clearly understood the consequences of violating the ban, yet you chose not to make certain that the ban had been lifted prior to taking an action that, if you were wrong, put you at serious risk. You took that risk, now you have to live with the consequences. Welcome to life.
Mik kyo Spartan Industries Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:50:00 - [89] Originally by: Siresa Talesi You took that risk, now you have to live with the consequences. Welcome to life. yeah but perma bans? I mean if I was a GM that would be the equivalent of me banning you for being a gigantic pr*ck. Not really fair, even if the ban has some founding.
Siresa Talesi	Posted - 2007.12.13 19:48:00 - [90] Originally by: Mik kyo Originally by: Siresa Talesi You took that risk, now you have to live with the consequences. Welcome to life. yeah but perma bans? I mean if I was a GM that would be the equivalent of me banning you for being a gigantic pr*ck. Not really fair, even if the ban has some founding. Not at all. There was a posted ban on POS warfare. They chose to ignore said ban. They took such action regardless of there having been no such announcement declaring the lifting of the ban. According to GO Maz himself, they understood the stated consequences of breaking this ban, so cannot claim ignorance. What other course of action is left for CCP to take in the face of such a blatant violation?

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