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*Another* nerf to pirates. GG CCP.

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Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.12.12 06:37:00 - [1] Was this really needed? CCP has deemed fit to remove wrecks from showing up on your long range scanner. I'm not going to explain why this is a nerf. All the smart guys will figure it out. All the stupid ones will be left wondering. What do the rest of you guys think about this? Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
me bored	Posted - 2007.12.12 06:40:00 - [2] I'll live.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.12.12 06:54:00 - [3] This is thread number nine thousand on the subject... but yeah, sucks when figuring out how close to finishing a mission someone is. ____________________ Hi. I'm not an alt :) Originally by: kessah -notice the fact the are all nearly Amarr and Amarr do not suck.
Arekhon Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.12.12 06:57:00 - [4] Edited by: Arekhon on 12/12/2007 06:57:44 EVE: the pvp game where pve players whine and get their way. gotta protect the lowsec mission runners somehow without ruining their glorious probing system. Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap [BEES]
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.12.12 07:12:00 - [5] Originally by: techzer0 This is thread number nine thousand on the subject... but yeah, sucks when figuring out how close to finishing a mission someone is. Really? AFAIK, this hasn't been brought up. Could you point me to some threads where this is mentioned? As in, the change? Not people whining about getting their wrecks looted etc. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Shadow Engineer Ctrl Alt Elites	Posted - 2007.12.12 07:34:00 - [6] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: techzer0 This is thread number nine thousand on the subject... but yeah, sucks when figuring out how close to finishing a mission someone is. Really? AFAIK, this hasn't been brought up. Could you point me to some threads where this is mentioned? As in, the change? Not people whining about getting their wrecks looted etc. First I'm hearing about it.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.12.12 07:45:00 - [7] Originally by: Shadow Engineer Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: techzer0 This is thread number nine thousand on the subject... but yeah, sucks when figuring out how close to finishing a mission someone is. Really? AFAIK, this hasn't been brought up. Could you point me to some threads where this is mentioned? As in, the change? Not people whining about getting their wrecks looted etc. First I'm hearing about it. That's kinda what I thought, hence the post. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.12.12 07:49:00 - [8] lol, sorry for the sarcasm (not really ) It's about the third whine thread in here, have yet to see any announcement or anything from a Dev about it. Guessing it's another stealth nerf ____________________ Hi. I'm not an alt :) Originally by: kessah -notice the fact the are all nearly Amarr and Amarr do not suck.
Iwishai Wazahero XxTiggerxX Corp SOUL CARTEL	Posted - 2007.12.12 08:24:00 - [9] Ok speaking as someone that was an outlaw constantly from 04 - 06 and has now returned to the game (with a poo char and skills ) WTF are you smoking !! Pirating is so much simpler nowadays it's untrue, nerfed my ass #Solo perma sentry tanking now so much easier with rigs #Warp stab nerf, Need I say more !! Most mission nubs and highsec folk DO NOT wear stabs. #Pirating in highsec is now a piece of ** for non outlaws due to can flagging. #Probing.... lol, Just lol. It's no longer a skill where having a good prober in your corp was an asset. Now you just need a trained monkey and tada So tell me, how is pirating nerfed ?........ Iwishai**
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.12.12 08:46:00 - [10] Originally by: Iwishai Wazahero Ok speaking as someone that was an outlaw constantly from 04 - 06 and has now returned to the game (with a poo char and skills ) WTF are you smoking !! Pirating is so much simpler nowadays it's untrue, nerfed my ass #Solo perma sentry tanking now so much easier with rigs #Warp stab nerf, Need I say more !! Most mission nubs and highsec folk DO NOT wear stabs. #Pirating in highsec is now a piece of ** for non outlaws due to can flagging. #Probing.... lol, Just lol. It's no longer a skill where having a good prober in your corp was an asset. Now you just need a trained monkey and tada So tell me, how is pirating nerfed ?........ Iwishai** Point by point- rigs increase tanks, it's a dual edged sword. Now target tanks can't be broken by a single ship of the same class, much less a solo ship of smaller class. Hence, nerf to piracy- you need 2-3 guys to take down one target. WCS nerf- what are you smoking? I get guys with not just one, but TWO or THREE stabs fit, all the time. Running missions. It's silly. Can flagging? Won't get much pirating done there. I've tried it. A lot. Most of them would watch you kill their mothers rather than take back their loot. They're that chicken. Probing- while it's better in some respects, it's far from 'easy'. Probes have been nerfed so much, you have to resort to the wrong type of probe to get any results in a timely fashion. And this is assuming you can get into probe range in the first place. 20 AU probes are nearly worthless, and they turned our 100 AU probes into 40 AU. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Pesadel0 Vagabundos	Posted - 2007.12.12 09:09:00 - [11] I maybe be unlucky but i never scaned the wreaks ,i always pick up the drones,either way it is alot harder to scan down a guy doing missions but i will live.
Alanna Kereshkova	Posted - 2007.12.12 09:23:00 - [12] I laugh every time I see a post that declares Eve a PvP game. There is infinately more to eve than blowing stuff up. What made me PML here was the whine that you couldn't
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.12 09:28:00 - [13] The thing bothering me is that it's not in the bloody patch notes or anything. It just went poof. Rifters!
Arekhon Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.12.12 09:55:00 - [14] Originally by: Alanna Kereshkova I laugh every time I see a post that declares Eve a PvP game. There is infinately more to eve than blowing stuff up. What made me PML here was the whine that you couldn't I never said there was not more to the game. However when a mojority of the people that play this game pvp, I'd say that makes it so. Also this 'more to eve stuff" that you refer to is also talked about in the F.A.Q. as "basic gameplay" Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap [BEES]
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.12 10:01:00 - [15] How about you probe for.. "raven" instead? ________________________________________________ Currently training for "caldari overlord I" Thank you ccp!
Zhett Haukes Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.12.12 10:04:00 - [16] Originally by: Tasuric Orka How about you probe for.. "raven" instead? Not quite sure you understand the problem. Has anyone considered that it could be a bug? We can hope right?
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.12.12 10:22:00 - [17] The Need For Less Server Spend requires us to make certain sacrifices. Gameplay not being the only one. -- Awwwww Diddums! Did I wardec your highsec alt recently or something?
Grunanca BLACK-FLAG	Posted - 2007.12.12 10:33:00 - [18] The fact that mission runners are so hard to probe is just good... Makes more come in, and fit stabs less often. now that you cant see how far people are in missions, you will just have to stay around more to see when people leave for the mission. I have killed 3 mission runners the last 12 hours, one was a raven 11.6 AU away I hit with a 20AU probe. got in 45km from him. It is doable if you have the patience.
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2007.12.12 10:36:00 - [19] Originally by: Iwishai Wazahero Ok speaking as someone that was an outlaw constantly from 04 - 06 and has now returned to the game (with a poo char and skills ) WTF are you smoking !! Pirating is so much simpler nowadays it's untrue, nerfed my ass #Solo perma sentry tanking now so much easier with rigs #Warp stab nerf, Need I say more !! Most mission nubs and highsec folk DO NOT wear stabs. #Pirating in highsec is now a piece of ** for non outlaws due to can flagging. #Probing.... lol, Just lol. It's no longer a skill where having a good prober in your corp was an asset. Now you just need a trained monkey and tada So tell me, how is pirating nerfed ?........ Iwishai** well... sentry guns are easier to tank? they used to not exist. warp stab nerf? they are still worn by haulers, and now there are haulers with inbuilt stabs. hisec piracy? concord used to only show up occasionally and you could kill them. probing? missions often used to take place at gates/planets/belts and spots were reused.
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2007.12.12 10:37:00 - [20] Edited by: Kehmor on 12/12/2007 10:39:10 Originally by: Alanna Kereshkova I laugh every time I see a post that declares Eve a PvP game. There is infinately more to eve than blowing stuff up. What made me PML here was the whine that you couldn't and there is infinately more to pvp than blowing stuff up. Eve is meant to be a pvp game and is for the most part. Deadspace missions in hi-sec are the closest it gets to a pve game. As for those who think we are whining because we some how probed for wrecks.... WTS a clue. I don't pirate anymore but this is indeed a lame stealth nerf.
James Sheridan	Posted - 2007.12.12 10:57:00 - [21] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Can flagging? Won't get much pirating done there. I've tried it. A lot. Most of them would watch you kill their mothers rather than take back their loot. They're that chicken. Completley, baiting the inexperienced to steal your cans by calling it 'free ore' or equally pathetic tactics while you sit in a fitted PVP ship makes them 'chicken' If you want PVP go and shoot up other PVP jockies rather than get in a hissy fit because you no longer have the ability to gank people who cant, wont or dont want to PVP.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.12.12 11:05:00 - [22] Originally by: Kehmor As for those who think we are whining because we some how probed for wrecks.... WTS a clue. I don't pirate anymore but this is indeed a lame stealth nerf. Yep, that about says it. I would run a directional scan for wrecks, to make sure the target is in a mission and not safe spotted, never got a hit on a wreck with a probe though. Alway it was a drone or the ship itself. Can still run probes, and can still get results, but it's been getting harder to get hits without maxed skills. Deadspace missions are definitely not probe friendly from over 10au, and the ideal range is within 4au where you can use the slower but more successful exploration probes. ____________________ Hi. I'm not an alt :) Originally by: kessah -notice the fact the are all nearly Amarr and Amarr do not suck.
Rellik B00n Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.12 11:07:00 - [23] which is why you see a thread in here about once a week from an ex-pirate corp stating "mercs for hire." im not surprised no one updates the merc list anymore it would be a never ending job. low sec = route to 0.0 and thats about it. remix:never fades 07 (2) - gall002
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.12 11:17:00 - [24] Originally by: Iwishai Wazahero speaking as someone that was an outlaw constantly from 04 - 06 I call BS. - Recruitment open again-
Sarkkon	Posted - 2007.12.12 11:19:00 - [25] Edited by: Sarkkon on 12/12/2007 11:22:37 Removing wrecks does help protect the low sec mission runners i guess. It also hurts the salvagers that look for fights that happened at plants (lots of t2 salvage is lost now as these wrecks will never be found and warring parties are usually too occupied to salvage) Gate wrecks are easily found and salvaged , but i have found over 300 mil of t2 salvage at planets and in belts just by noticing wrecks on scanner as i traveled. No more. One used to be able to tell if those 1/10 and 2/10 plexes had been recently run by cheking scanner to see if the boss wrecks were on scanner... Again of little interest to piracy...but justa couple examplex of how these stealth changes work across a broad spectrum of eve. And a determined prober can find those mission runners anyway (most of the time at least)
Joie Mains Vindicator A Team	Posted - 2007.12.12 11:19:00 - [26] its fun hows there prety no much point on piracy left belt piracy dead gates camping is *** and ofc u need mom to do that and now this .. i glad that i fix my sec status
Awox Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.12.12 11:29:00 - [27] Well what do you expect. CCP want $$$ not an awesome game. =====
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.12 11:45:00 - [28] Originally by: Joie Mains belt piracy dead It isn't. Often a lack of targets, but it's not dead. Originally by: Joie Mains gates camping is * and ofc u need mom to do that (a) The advent of HICs make Mothership gatecamping risky. (b) In no way you need a Mothership to gatecamp. Battlecruisers do just fine, in fact. Originally by:** Joie Mains and now this .. i glad that i fix my sec status It's not a crippling nerf, although a nerf it is. Rifters!
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics SOUL CARTEL	Posted - 2007.12.12 11:47:00 - [29] The legend known as World Of EveCraft continues. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
Joie Mains Vindicator A Team	Posted - 2007.12.12 11:54:00 - [30] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Joie Mains belt piracy dead It isn't. Often a lack of targets, but it's not dead. Originally by: Joie Mains gates camping is * and ofc u need mom to do that (a) The advent of HICs make Mothership gatecamping risky. (b) In no way you need a Mothership to gatecamp. Battlecruisers do just fine, in fact. Originally by:** Joie Mains and now this .. i glad that i fix my sec status It's not a crippling nerf, although a nerf it is. ohh yeah belt piracy is dead and u need mom to be cool and that was ironic pist btw
Awox Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.12.12 11:54:00 - [31] Originally by: Xtro 2 The legend known as World Of EveCraft continues. This. =====
Kamazani Minmatar The Legion. Requiem-Aeternam	Posted - 2007.12.12 13:22:00 - [32] Dunno what you guys see on the pirate end, but when a Church helios lands in my mission less than a minute after their gang entered local.....just how much faster do you want probing to be? --------------------------- by: GinoShin on 21/11/2006 11:41:44 whats evemon is it like a jamican wiseman?
Tal Nok DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2007.12.12 14:44:00 - [33] I'm going to sitr the pot up on this one. I have no problems with piracy wether its scanning out mission runners, belt pirating, or camping. Sounds like those who have the problem, are nubbins.
Lavraen Minmatar Highwaymen	Posted - 2007.12.12 14:48:00 - [34] No flame intended. You can work around it. It's not all bad. You just have to adapt. Lavraen
Kane Rizzel NovaKane Incorporated Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2007.12.12 14:54:00 - [35] Originally by: Grunanca The fact that mission runners are so hard to probe is just good... Makes more come in, and fit stabs less often. now that you cant see how far people are in missions, you will just have to stay around more to see when people leave for the mission. I have killed 3 mission runners the last 12 hours, one was a raven 11.6 AU away I hit with a 20AU probe. got in 45km from him. It is doable if you have the patience. This. Patience is key, whether probing or belt hunting but it is alive and kicking. Just ask our local isk farmers. All of my hits recently have been with 20 AU probes. Originally by: High Sierra note to self: dont ever say anything to anyone on the internet about anything ever again.
Lord Zoran Caldari House of Tempers	Posted - 2007.12.12 14:55:00 - [36] real pirates get over nerfs Yarr!?!?!?!?!
Ulstan	Posted - 2007.12.12 15:25:00 - [37] Edited by: Ulstan on 12/12/2007 15:29:47 Awesome. Now if only we can get secure cargo cans to not show up on the long range scanner as well. That would clear out 80% of the clutter. As for people whining: adapt. Use a recon ship if you want up to date info on where your target is in the mission progrsesion. Not that hard. I'm sorry your trivially easy source of intelligence dried up. Not like you can't still probe him or his drones down.
Radcjk Caldari Dark Star LTD Atrocitas	Posted - 2007.12.12 16:45:00 - [38] Im so confused as to why this makes piracy more difficult. You enter system, find a likely spot, do a 360 degree scan. Bingo, a few ships pop up. One begins to narrow down their scan range and find a ship of choice at whatever angle they detect it on. IF it isnt at a belt, planet, or station hugging, you'll now require probes.... So you drop probes and hope they break the SS and / or mission.... Where did wrecks play into this ? Seriously ? I'm not looking for wrecks, Im looking for the ship.
Angela Goethrella Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.12.12 17:12:00 - [39] Originally by: Radcjk Im so confused as to why this makes piracy more difficult. You enter system, find a likely spot, do a 360 degree scan. Bingo, a few ships pop up. One begins to narrow down their scan range and find a ship of choice at whatever angle they detect it on. IF it isnt at a belt, planet, or station hugging, you'll now require probes.... So you drop probes and hope they break the SS and / or mission.... Where did wrecks play into this ? Seriously ? I'm not looking for wrecks, Im looking for the ship. For those who are a bit dense..I'll break down the fourth wall.. You scan the guy down and see..wow, he's fighting sanshas..which means his tank is <insert whatever you tank for sanshas> Which means I fit <thing which is likely his biggest hole> ammo and drones and tank with <mission damage type> because its likely all he's got for ammo. Also, given the sizes of rats that are being produced, is he a nub doing a LVL2 mission in that CNR? Or is he doing a full on drone plex that if I pop my drones out the whole room will aggro? It's all about the info. The more you have, the easier it will be to pwn that officer pimped out mission running ship. Take some time out to search for some of Murder One's posts about probing missions. They're classic and informative. I hope this has been educational. It should have been fairly obvious, but do you get it now? --
Scyths Gallente Fracked Inc	Posted - 2007.12.12 17:37:00 - [40] Lots more probes are going to be used
Feilamya Minmatar Against all Rules SOUL CARTEL	Posted - 2007.12.12 18:05:00 - [41] This is a nerf to carebears too. Smart carebears never needed to care whether their wrecks could be seen on the scanner or not, because they knew that when they saw probes on the scanner, it was time to align and get ready to warp out. These smart carebears had an unfair advantage over all stupid carebears which allowed them to run missions in lowsec without getting blown up all the time. Likewise, smart pirates had an unfair advantage over stupid pirates because they used to scan for wrecks and do what some other posters already explained in enough detail. This is not a nerf to pirates! It is a nerf to the one and only overpowered ability in every multiplayer game that has ever been out there: The ability to use your brain to understand game mechanics and use them to your advantage over stupid (sometimes also called "casual") players who think that gaming is, like watching talk shows on TV, an activity where you can shut down your brain after what you think has been a hard day of work (most "casual players" have no idea because they are probably as lazy in real life as they are in games). Like all nerfs of this kind, it will be a failure. Smart players will adapt and figure out new tactics. Stupid players will continue to cry for more nerfs and force the devs to turn the game more and more into ****. It's sad but it will happen. I've seen it happen to another good PVP game, and I'm now starting to relalized that I've jumped on another sinking ship. Unfortunately it's still the best sinking ship that has not sunk yet, so don't ask me for my stuff. Thank you.
Zhaine Huff Technologies	Posted - 2007.12.12 18:35:00 - [42] Originally by: Tal Nok I'm going to sitr the pot up on this one. I have no problems with piracy wether its scanning out mission runners, belt pirating, or camping. Sounds like those who have the problem, are nubbins. This.
Lavraen Minmatar Highwaymen	Posted - 2007.12.12 18:39:00 - [43] Originally by: Feilamya This is a nerf to carebears too. Smart carebears never needed to care whether their wrecks could be seen on the scanner or not, because they knew that when they saw probes on the scanner, it was time to align and get ready to warp out. These smart carebears had an unfair advantage over all stupid carebears which allowed them to run missions in lowsec without getting blown up all the time. Likewise, smart pirates had an unfair advantage over stupid pirates because they used to scan for wrecks and do what some other posters already explained in enough detail. This is not a nerf to pirates! It is a nerf to the one and only overpowered ability in every multiplayer game that has ever been out there: The ability to use your brain to understand game mechanics and use them to your advantage over stupid (sometimes also called "casual") players who think that gaming is, like watching talk shows on TV, an activity where you can shut down your brain after what you think has been a hard day of work (most "casual players" have no idea because they are probably as lazy in real life as they are in games). Like all nerfs of this kind, it will be a failure. Smart players will adapt and figure out new tactics. Stupid players will continue to cry for more nerfs and force the devs to turn the game more and more into ****. It's sad but it will happen. I've seen it happen to another good PVP game, and I'm now starting to relalized that I've jumped on another sinking ship. Unfortunately it's still the best sinking ship that has not sunk yet, so don't ask me for my stuff. Thank you. SWG BH perchance? Lavraen
Radcjk Caldari Dark Star LTD Atrocitas	Posted - 2007.12.12 19:51:00 - [44] Oh yeah, I'm used to general PvP and ship hunting, as opposed to finding suckers and making sure my ships fittings and the situation are 100% in my favor before Ill make a move. Forgot about that.
Ulstan	Posted - 2007.12.12 21:44:00 - [45] Quote: You scan the guy down and see..wow, he's fighting sanshas..which means his tank is <insert whatever you tank for sanshas> Which means I fit <thing which is likely his biggest hole> ammo and drones and tank with <mission damage type> because its likely all he's got for ammo. This. Which is blatantly unfair of course, and provides far too much information for far too little effort to the pirate. Can a mission runner use his scanner to find out what the pirate is using? Nope. Not like a pvp fitted pirate ship needs any further advantage over a pve fitted mission running ship, which is why it wouldn't surprise me at all if this change were deliberate. Quote: This is a nerf to carebears too. Smart carebears never needed to care whether their wrecks could be seen on the scanner or not, because they knew that when they saw probes on the scanner, it was time to align and get ready to warp out. While true, how on earth is wrecks not showing up on scanners a nerf to carebear mission runners? I think you've made quite the leap of logic there.
Infinity111 Amarr The Knights Templar Pure.	Posted - 2007.12.12 21:52:00 - [46] yes this was needed and i give my full support to decision to do it.
Akane Miyamoto Paisti	Posted - 2007.12.12 22:37:00 - [47] Originally by: Zhaine Originally by: Tal Nok I'm going to sitr the pot up on this one. I have no problems with piracy wether its scanning out mission runners, belt pirating, or camping. Sounds like those who have the problem, are nubbins. This. What these two fine ladies said. --------------- The Miyamotos, Chaper #1
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2007.12.12 22:47:00 - [48] While nice knowing what type of rats a mission runner is fighting, and knowing how many potential rats are left in belt etc this is a long shot imo. It hasn't changed my abilities to probe mission runners at all. Hasn't changed belt piracy. There are a few minor effects. Like seeing a cane and a player cruiser wreck in belt would give you the info that the cane is probably a pirate. But meh... seriously. Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Cpt Fina Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.12.12 23:14:00 - [49] Wrecks also made it easier to distinguish ships parked at safes from ships in missions. The prober knew which probe that was the right one to use for the job. Now one might try to get within 4 Au from a ship to use the "missionprobes" to find a ship parked at a SS because said prober might assume that he's doing a mission. Or, one might assume that the missionrunner is parked at a safe and therefor run a few "SS-probes"... which suck at finding missionrunners.
doctorstupid2 Finite Horizon	Posted - 2007.12.13 00:46:00 - [50] Originally by: Tasuric Orka How about you probe for.. "raven" instead? For one, you never could probe for wrecks [on TQ, you could on Sisi for about a week] in the first place. The issues that have arisen are percieved as one of two things; one being is the target worth probing or is he salvaging and about to leave, the other being identifying tank weaknesses based on the npc type. I hate to admit it but I can easily see how this is justifiable, where us mission busting types had a huge advantage over mission runners in that not only do we get the jump on them, but can come in fully prepared to walk all over them with the most effective damage types loaded and tanked and all that (not that walking all over carebears is hard, but you know what i mean). Leaves us a little more uncertain of the kill coming in to the fight. shrug
Praxis1452 The Bastards	Posted - 2007.12.13 01:07:00 - [51] Another situation in which it might become useful. For example in amamake with the constant pirating going on having wrecks on scanner can often let you know which side is winning. This also allows you to come in as the battle ends. I've had wrecks on scanner sometimes and it allows you see how the battle has progressed. Of course wrecks don't automatically tell a corp or anything else but if you know certain people in local or have seen them on a gate. Situational and niche but still there. ôHe who must expend his life to prolong life cannot enjoy it, and he who is still seeking for his life does not have it and can as little enjoy it.ö
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.12.13 01:11:00 - [52] Originally by: doctorstupid2 Originally by: Tasuric Orka How about you probe for.. "raven" instead? For one, you never could probe for wrecks [on TQ, you could on Sisi for about a week] in the first place. The issues that have arisen are percieved as one of two things; one being is the target worth probing or is he salvaging and about to leave, the other being identifying tank weaknesses based on the npc type. I hate to admit it but I can easily see how this is justifiable, where us mission busting types had a huge advantage over mission runners in that not only do we get the jump on them, but can come in fully prepared to walk all over them with the most effective damage types loaded and tanked and all that (not that walking all over carebears is hard, but you know what i mean). Leaves us a little more uncertain of the kill coming in to the fight. shrug Turncoat! Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Arekhon Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.12.13 01:14:00 - [53] Originally by: Ulstan Quote: You scan the guy down and see..wow, he's fighting sanshas..which means his tank is <insert whatever you tank for sanshas> Which means I fit <thing which is likely his biggest hole> ammo and drones and tank with <mission damage type> because its likely all he's got for ammo. This. Which is blatantly unfair of course, and provides far too much information for far too little effort to the pirate. Can a mission runner use his scanner to find out what the pirate is using? Nope. Not like a pvp fitted pirate ship needs any further advantage over a pve fitted mission running ship, which is why it wouldn't surprise me at all if this change were deliberate. Quote: you are not a pirate are you? most of the time when we scan out mission runners we are away from our HQ and already have all the ammo we will use in our hold. We could give a crap what type of rat he is tanking, we have never met a mission runner whose tank we could not break. a ratting tank will melt to a pvp gang regardless of his resists. Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap [BEES]
doctorstupid2 Finite Horizon	Posted - 2007.12.13 01:22:00 - [54] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: doctorstupid2 Originally by: Tasuric Orka How about you probe for.. "raven" instead? For one, you never could probe for wrecks [on TQ, you could on Sisi for about a week] in the first place. The issues that have arisen are percieved as one of two things; one being is the target worth probing or is he salvaging and about to leave, the other being identifying tank weaknesses based on the npc type. I hate to admit it but I can easily see how this is justifiable, where us mission busting types had a huge advantage over mission runners in that not only do we get the jump on them, but can come in fully prepared to walk all over them with the most effective damage types loaded and tanked and all that (not that walking all over carebears is hard, but you know what i mean). Leaves us a little more uncertain of the kill coming in to the fight. shrug Turncoat! hey I'm just sayin... I'd love to have that info on my scanner again
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar Uraniumcore	Posted - 2007.12.13 03:16:00 - [55] Quote: Smart players will adapt and figure out new tactics. Haha, someone that actually knows the same thing I do. Yea, I've seen this happen a lot over the years, it's sad every time it happens. But then again, it always reminds me that without new challenges the dumb players will eventually have held their hands out long enough to have collected enough hints to catch up to the smart players. So unless there is a continual dropping of old tactics and generation of new tactics, there isn't a gap between IQ levels anymore. Nerfs of this kind are never really a bad thing until there are no more nerfs left to nerf, and you're staring at World of Evecraft.. which I don't believe will ever happen :P
Requiescat Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.12.13 03:27:00 - [56] Quote: This. Come up with your own posts please Neither wrecks nor cargo containers show up now. Not to mention the confusing default 360 degree/5 degree position setting, and ugghhh I really hate that scanning is so necessary Victory - Honor = Loss
Ard UnjiiGo The Bastards	Posted - 2007.12.13 04:03:00 - [57] Please let a pirate whine thread die quickly. Frankly it's an emabarrassment.
Mik kyo Spartan Industries Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.13 04:28:00 - [58] Edited by: Mik kyo on 13/12/2007 04:29:24 Theres a lot of people posting in this thread who have no idea what they are talking about tbh. For everybody else who has extensivly probed mission runners will see that this is a serious nerf, and an unnecessary and unfounded one. It actually takes more skill and knowledge out of probing and pirating than any thing else. Not to mention making it easier to see probes in the first place. I feel that it would be more effective to nerf stupid pirates, rather than people using skill, intelligence and game knowledge to help them.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.12.13 06:38:00 - [59] Originally by: Mik kyo Edited by: Mik kyo on 13/12/2007 04:29:24 Theres a lot of people posting in this thread who have no idea what they are talking about tbh. For everybody else who has extensivly probed mission runners will see that this is a serious nerf, and an unnecessary and unfounded one. It actually takes more skill and knowledge out of probing and pirating than any thing else. Not to mention making it easier to see probes in the first place. I feel that it would be more effective to nerf stupid pirates, rather than people using skill, intelligence and game knowledge to help them. Like I said in my OP- the smart guys will figure it out, the stupid ones... not so much. You can see how many of each has been posting in this thread. Three guesses as to which bunch is which. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.12.13 06:44:00 - [60] Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo Please let a pirate whine thread die quickly. Frankly it's an emabarrassment. This shoulda ended it ____________________ Hi. I'm not an alt :) Originally by: kessah -notice the fact the are all nearly Amarr and Amarr do not suck.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.12.13 08:26:00 - [61] Originally by: Alanna Kereshkova I laugh every time I see a post that declares Eve a PvP game. There is infinately more to eve than blowing stuff up. What made me PML here was the whine that you couldn't and there is more to pvp then blowing stuff up....
Iwishai Wazahero XxTiggerxX Corp SOUL CARTEL	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:03:00 - [62] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Alanna Kereshkova I laugh every time I see a post that declares Eve a PvP game. There is infinately more to eve than blowing stuff up. What made me PML here was the whine that you couldn't and there is more to pvp then blowing stuff up.... He should be laughing at the Dev's tbh, they've claimed Eve is a mainly a PvP game many times. Iwishai
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics SOUL CARTEL	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:25:00 - [63] Originally by: Iwishai Wazahero Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Alanna Kereshkova I laugh every time I see a post that declares Eve a PvP game. There is infinately more to eve than blowing stuff up. What made me PML here was the whine that you couldn't and there is more to pvp then blowing stuff up.... He should be laughing at the Dev's tbh, they've claimed Eve is a mainly a PvP game many times. Iwishai they regularly claim eve is a sandbox, the only problem is the sandbox keeps shrinking. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
VB Sarge The Bastards	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:44:00 - [64] Only posting to say a few things. I'll keep it short. Ard was right, this is kind of embarrassing to be in this forum in the first place. Second, if you are any sort of capable pirate, you have left your station with a set up that will let you adapt instantly to any mission type, and your ammo has been preselected based not on what mission the mark is running, but on how best to take on a mission runner. Third, I wouldn't mind wrecks back up on scan, but not for the reasons posted here. I have never ever used wrecks to determine how to fit my ship or what ammo to use. I use wrecks as a sort of timestamp on the system. Fourth, it has been said before here, and I will say it again: those who can adapt will still flourish while those who are stuck crying over a mythical nerfbat that supposedly hit them, will fail. All the more targets for me and my fellow bastards. Times change. Policies change. Directions change. If this was the same game it was a year ago, or 2, or 3, I highly doubt any of you would be satisfied and would find other things to cry about, which is how we arrived where we are today. You can not satisfy everyone, so I take it as my job to exploit the weaknesses of those who are insatiable. www.the-bastards.com
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:55:00 - [65] Originally by: VB Sarge Third, I wouldn't mind wrecks back up on scan, but not for the reasons posted here. I have never ever used wrecks to determine how to fit my ship or what ammo to use. I use wrecks as a sort of timestamp on the system. This. It enables me to see wether someone is ratting, how long have they been ratting, and so on. It helps me decide wether it's bait or not, for one thing. Also, I have a habit of stealing loot from people's wrecks which are harder to find now, really. Furthermore, it enables me to watch more what is happening better: if I see, say, two Hurricanes in a belt before the patch, I knew that if one blows up I'll see the wreck and I'll know what happened. Right now, you see two ships on scanner, next thing you see one ship (and a pod unless the guy got podded as well). There's no way to ascertain what was happening in system. Originally by: VB Sarge Fourth, it has been said before here, and I will say it again: those who can adapt will still flourish while those who are stuck crying over a mythical nerfbat that supposedly hit them, will fail. All the more targets for me and my fellow bastards. Times change. Policies change. Directions change. If this was the same game it was a year ago, or 2, or 3, I highly doubt any of you would be satisfied and would find other things to cry about, which is how we arrived where we are today. You can not satisfy everyone, so I take it as my job to exploit the weaknesses of those who are insatiable. Yeah, yeah, all that is fine, and nobody is saying he's going to quit the game or stop pirating or anything. It's just that, well, making changes which affect people without even bothering to list them in patch notes is a very annoying move. It's basically showing a lack of care. I already lost one ship (cargo frig, luckily) because somehow my overview didn't show huggins on scanner post-patch, another undocumented feature. Rifters!
Ulstan	Posted - 2007.12.14 03:00:00 - [66] Quote: most of the time when we scan out mission runners we are away from our HQ and already have all the ammo we will use in our hold. We could give a crap what type of rat he is tanking, we have never met a mission runner whose tank we could not break. a ratting tank will melt to a pvp gang regardless of his resists. Other posters have said that they do indeed use the information to know what kind of tank/ammo to suit up for. Quote: For everybody else who has extensivly probed mission runners will see that this is a serious nerf, and an unnecessary and unfounded one. Nonsense on all three counts. Quote: It actually takes more skill and knowledge out of probing and pirating than any thing else. Lol. It takes no skill out of probing OR pirating. It increases the skill required (by an ever so slight amount) by hiding some information from you. Removing information from pirating is kind of the point, if this is a deliberate change. Besides, see above poster who says that not being able to see the wrecks really won't change anything major. Ok, it's harder to know exactly what the mission runner is geared for, and it's harder to know how far along he is in his mission, and it's harder to tell if he is in a mission or a safe spot but...I don't think any self respecting pirate would say that it was just TOO HARD to kill mission runners before now. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Anything to make that slightly less uneven is a good thing. Stop whining and adapt! It's the name of the game. Quote: Not to mention making it easier to see probes in the first place. Yep. Best part of it, as I've said already. Wrecks and secure cans cluttered up the interface to an astonishing degree and I'm glad to see them gone. Quote: It's just that, well, making changes which affect people without even bothering to list them in patch notes is a very annoying move. Oh definitely. Of course, CCP does this quite often, with many different 'featuers'. It's not just aimed at the yarrr crew :)
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.12.14 06:32:00 - [67] Originally by: VB Sarge Only posting to say a few things. I'll keep it short. Ard was right, this is kind of embarrassing to be in this forum in the first place. Second, if you are any sort of capable pirate, you have left your station with a set up that will let you adapt instantly to any mission type, and your ammo has been preselected based not on what mission the mark is running, but on how best to take on a mission runner. Third, I wouldn't mind wrecks back up on scan, but not for the reasons posted here. I have never ever used wrecks to determine how to fit my ship or what ammo to use. I use wrecks as a sort of timestamp on the system. Fourth, it has been said before here, and I will say it again: those who can adapt will still flourish while those who are stuck crying over a mythical nerfbat that supposedly hit them, will fail. All the more targets for me and my fellow bastards. Times change. Policies change. Directions change. If this was the same game it was a year ago, or 2, or 3, I highly doubt any of you would be satisfied and would find other things to cry about, which is how we arrived where we are today. You can not satisfy everyone, so I take it as my job to exploit the weaknesses of those who are insatiable. It's lame that CCP changes stuff like this and doesn't document it, or even discuss it before they do it. My post has nothing to do with whether or not I will be able to 'adapt' or not. I will always be able to kill mission runners, regardless of what they do, save staying docked and logged off, which is what happens within 30 seconds if I log in within 3-4 jumps of their home system. I like to push the envelope. I like to go after battleships with cruisers or even frigs solo. I can really only maximize my ship performance while using such grossly mismatched ships by getting as much detailed information about the target as possible. This change removes that much more information. It's just another needless change to nerf piracy in general. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers	Posted - 2007.12.14 11:08:00 - [68] Originally by: Bellum Eternus It's just another needless change to nerf piracy in general. This.
Minmatar Citizen 4521577	Posted - 2007.12.14 11:22:00 - [69] I don't agree with the change. Presumably its to remove lag until they finish the new backend architecture so I'll put up with it. However, it's not that bad at all. If its a ship, you probe it down. You kill people in missions with almost zero risk. You know they won't have a disruptor, most likely not a web, that its probably fit for endurance and no for bursts of damage. Your chances of dying to the other batteship are almost nil (and in fact everyone will laugh at you if you die), and his ubermegatank is already been eaten by the rats. So frankly, do you really need to know what to tank for? Maybe you don't like killing ships in safespots just in case they are bait. But, then, thats what the covops is for.
Iwishai Wazahero XxTiggerxX Corp SOUL CARTEL	Posted - 2007.12.14 14:41:00 - [70] Originally by: Xtro 2 Originally by: Iwishai Wazahero Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Alanna Kereshkova I laugh every time I see a post that declares Eve a PvP game. There is infinately more to eve than blowing stuff up. What made me PML here was the whine that you couldn't and there is more to pvp then blowing stuff up.... He should be laughing at the Dev's tbh, they've claimed Eve is a mainly a PvP game many times. Iwishai they regularly claim eve is a sandbox, the only problem is the sandbox keeps shrinking. Welll durrr, CCP just need to buy more sand Iwishai
Golem Pyle	Posted - 2007.12.14 16:51:00 - [71] to the OP... Wah. If you can't kill them at the gate coming into low-sec, you don't deserve to have an hour to kill them while they run their mission.
Tapper Jackson Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.14 19:58:00 - [72] You're kidding. Right? "Probing mission runners is hard" I don't know what you're doing, but you're doing it wrong. Probing for mission runners is distressingly easy these days. The first time I went out probing in my Cov Ops ship, I probed down a mission runner in a level 4 mission. Wrecks showed on the probe scan as well as the ships being used. I warped in under cloak and checked out everything. Took about a minute. Get some skills and equipment and stop whining. Nothing more pathetic than a pirate who whines. Yarr, yarr, yarr. :) Shoot em till they squeak.
Ulstan	Posted - 2007.12.14 21:07:00 - [73] Quote: I like to go after battleships with cruisers or even frigs solo ... This change removes that... It's just another needless change I think you just demonstrated, rather convincingly, why the change may not be needless at all.

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