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Gekkoh Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.12 12:32:00 - [1] I've been paying attention to dev blogs and Eve news off and on since I started playing about a year ago, and I seem to remember some talk of a UI revamp being planned for the future. While I do appreciate being able to move things around, the drone hotkeys, etc, there are still quite a few aspects of the UI that are frustrating. I'm hoping that there are more improvements upcoming, because Trinity didn't really have as many as I had hoped. If someone knows of information on more UI improvements coming in the future, I'd appreciate a link, as just knowing they're working on it does make it a little more bearable :-) So, here is a list of things that bother me the most about the UI. Most of them are minor things that shouldn't be too hard to fix (yes, I know as a player with no knowledge of the client code, I could be wildly and totally wrong on that assumption), such as: - Add the ability to have sorting tabs in all containers (or even just station containers) like the ones we have in the Station tab in the Asset window. - Let us look and search inside of remote containers. - Add more hotkeys, such as ones for each of the "selected item" toolbar functions (look at, target, unlock target, approach, orbit, OPEN CARGO!!!, etc.) - Improve the module activation buttons on the bottom so that their current status is a little easier to see. Green and red flashing outlines have issues with bright backgrounds. - Letting us set a module that is flashing red (i.e. in the wait state until it can be used again) to queue that module's action on the current target. I hate it when I accidentally trigger a module on the wrong target, then have to wait for the entire cycle to click it again. - Let us change the color and transparency (or at least the transparency) of any UI element background independently. This goes for pinned and unpinned UI elements. - Give us indicator icons when we're under certain effects, such as warp scrambled, webbed, etc. Make it just like the new targeting UI element in that we can drag it anywhere we want, orient it horizontally or vertically, and specify which direction it grows as new icons are added. If you mouse over an icon, a small tooltip appears telling you who is doing it to you (a list if more than one ship). Right clicking will give you a context menu to let you target that specific ship. - Thank you for letting us move the targeting UI element! Now, if you'd just put a few indicators somewhere around each target for a few negative effects, such as warp scrambled, webbed, etc. This is in addition to the icon bar. The icon bar is meant as a very obvious general "Dude, you're now scrambled" indicator, then you'd go see who it was that was doing it to you. - Please, pretty please, store ALL UI settings for each character separately. That includes everything in all of the options menus as well. - Give us an easy way to see our current targeting range, current module range (per module, obviously), damage/effect amount for the type of ammo/script loaded, rate of fire for each weapon, current shield/armor/hull resistances, etc. Basically, all of the information that you have to go hunting down in various info windows, some of which you have to calculate yourself. Make it a tooltip for each module, or give us some UI element that we can pick and choose what information we want to appear. That's just what I can think of off the top of my head, but as anyone who plays Eve for more than a month or so knows, there are quite a few aspects of the UI that seem like they wouldn't be too to hard to improve that would make playing much more enjoyable. And you really don't have to save them all up for one gigantic UI patch :-) It's much better to have to deal with a few bugs at a time, than dozens thrown at us all at once!
Neth'Rae Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.12.12 12:35:00 - [2] Edited by: Neth''Rae on 12/12/2007 12:35:24 I think the ui-layout is bad, and that the UI is pretty ugly :P I hope they do a complete make-over.. Also, more hotkeys and the ability to bind mouse buttons. Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Shionoya Risa Caldari The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2007.12.12 12:36:00 - [3] Originally by: Neth'Rae Edited by: Neth''Rae on 12/12/2007 12:35:24 Also, more hotkeys and the ability to bind mouse buttons. This. ----- Quote: Argh! Natural light, get it off me! Get it off me!
N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.12.12 12:41:00 - [4] I think my major gripe with the UI is that theres simply not enough space to display everything I want to see. My solution to this would be making icons for things scaleable (if fact, make everything scaleable). I honestly dont want a massive great picture for a module in my cargo which could very easily be half as big. Another thing I would like is to have small icons for ships instead of pictures when im targeting. A distinguishing silouette or coloured small representation, with clear features that let you see what it is at a glance (I recognise a lot of my target ships visually). Theres also a lot of empty spaces in a lot of windows, that just dont do anything, these need removing, cut away all the fat. =============================================
Trishan Green Men Incorporated	Posted - 2007.12.12 12:55:00 - [5] You know there's something very wrong when the addition of 3? hotkeys for a major weapon "subsystem" is quite applauded.
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.12 12:58:00 - [6] Turning on HDR+bloom really REALLY shows how the current representation of module activation is almost 100% useless. It was bad before, but it's so easy to situate your camera on some bright area of the background nebula that destroys your ability to see your bottom UI. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Jolliejoe Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.12 13:22:00 - [7] Yes I agree, the UI is incredibly bad for a game of this age. Indicators of being warscrambled and such, can't believe that wasn't included in trinity. Also more (color) customizations options for all the the on-screen elements. The biggest problem though I have is finding my target on the screen when trying to align or something.. White against a white background... Why not just put a blinking red thing around that to make it visible?? I've lost so many ships because I couldn't visually identify my align point.
BtHatch Boli Me Kurc	Posted - 2007.12.12 13:55:00 - [8] I agree as well. UI Improvements and bugfixes should be priority for eve now... I'd suggest the following: Item activation grouping. There is no need to have 6 or more (F)key binds used for single operation. Because of current chat system, keyboard is too used-up as it is. Custom shortcuts (on sidebar, below accessiories) - allow us to drag bookmarks there, there is also space gang/fleet broadcast buttons. Drone control binds/shortcuts Macros?! Single key: scramble, web, shoot - enable all hardeners - whatever one desires, even grouping can be done through macros, so no need for that;) DPS meter - I'd like to have real-time status of my damage per second. Be it number or even a graph. Mining meter would be useful too. Movable frames - give us ability to move all UI objects, this will remedy most dual-monitor woes Eve/System map should be in window - movable and resizable, this will allow us to put it on second monitor and still fly the ship normally
me bored	Posted - 2007.12.12 13:56:00 - [9] Edited by: me bored on 12/12/2007 13:56:15 Originally by: Neth'Rae Edited by: Neth''Rae on 12/12/2007 12:35:24 I think the ui-layout is bad, and that the UI is pretty ugly :P I hope they do a complete make-over.. Also, more hotkeys and the ability to bind mouse buttons. Seconded. The graphics update has made the ui show it's age and it looks very out of place now.
Gekkoh Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.12 14:12:00 - [10] One more that I can't believe I forgot about: indicators for mining lasers. There should be a cycle timer per laser, as well as an audio and visual indication that a new cycle has begun. Also, an indicator to let you know when an asteroid has been depleted so you can shut off your mining laser (or even better, how about just shutting it off when it runs out of ore?)
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.12 14:27:00 - [11] Why not just add these to the coughyearoldcough thread in my sig? As for when the changes are coming...I wouldn't hold my breath. I've been advocating an overhaul for over a year and still waiting. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.12 14:31:00 - [12] Edited by: Xaen on 12/12/2007 14:31:48 I think the biggest and most important change that could be made is to make all the alphanumeric keys bindable without modifiers. Give us ONE hotkey to start sending keystrokes to a chat window. Quit wasting my keyboard on chat. If I want to chat, I'll let you know, game client. Actually I think threading the UI so the fetchMeSomeData() calls don't cause the UI to hang might be almost as important. fetchMeSomeData() should include both disk I/O and network I/O. edit: sentence fragment -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Gekkoh Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.12 14:39:00 - [13] Edited by: Gekkoh on 12/12/2007 14:41:44 It is a bit strange that they haven't paid very much attention to the UI over the past year, with all of the other changes they've made. I remember one guy at work, who when I asked him if he played Eve, replied with, "You mean that player vs. spreadsheet clickfest game?" Hell, even UO got a revamped UI recently. When UO's UI has more features than yours, you better get ***ing'! :-) Though, I guess us posting about it here won't really do anything, since CCP has to know how bad it is. Developers in this industry play lots of other games, MMOs in particular, and apparently lots of CCP devs actually play Eve as well, so I don't see how they could NOT know just how much it needs love. If Eve had a better and more intuitive UI, I bet we'd have 250,000 subs right now just due to a higher newbie adoption rate. Hear that CCP? Every day that goes by with out UI love is lost potential for cold hard cash that you'll never get back! Come on, I know you want those subs... you know you do! ** Edit: Err... what's wrong with the word ***? (rhymes with snack, starts with a CR) Is someone offended by plumbers or something?
Gekkoh Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.12 14:44:00 - [14] Originally by: Xaen fetchMeSomeData() should include both disk I/O and network I/O. Oh, that's functionality included in the updated method "fetchMeSomeDataBiatch()" They should use that instead.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.12 14:57:00 - [15] Originally by: Gekkoh It is a bit strange that they haven't paid very much attention to the UI over the past year, with all of the other changes they've made. I remember one guy at work, who when I asked him if he played Eve, replied with, "You mean that player vs. spreadsheet clickfest game?" Hell, even UO got a revamped UI recently. When UO's UI has more features than yours, you better get ***ing'! :-) Though, I guess us posting about it here won't really do anything, since CCP has to know how bad it is. Developers in this industry play lots of other games, MMOs in particular, and apparently lots of CCP devs actually play Eve as well, so I don't see how they could NOT know just how much it needs love. If Eve had a better and more intuitive UI, I bet we'd have 250,000 subs right now just due to a higher newbie adoption rate. Hear that CCP? Every day that goes by with out UI love is lost potential for cold hard cash that you'll never get back! Come on, I know you want those subs... you know you do! ** Edit: Err... what's wrong with the word ***? (rhymes with snack, starts with a CR) Is someone offended by plumbers or something? What will really shock you is some people seem to honestly think the UI is fine. Sadly, I suspect some/most/all CCP devs are among this crazy group. The thing is, for good UI design, you need the most anal, picky, exacting mofo you can find...e.g. me. If you're not capable of seeing that typical station hangar item management is an eighteen(!) step process that can be reduced by 94% you should not be doing UI. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Khes	Posted - 2007.12.12 14:59:00 - [16] Originally by: BtHatch Eve/System map should be in window - movable and resizable, this will allow us to put it on second monitor and still fly the ship normally [/list=1] Agree to this one very much. Would love to have the map in a window i can minimize to access fast. Right now Im using many different ways to set destinations just to avoid having to open and use the map, and I use an image I have placed on the internet through the ingame browser if I want to fast find systems in my home region. The maps is good for major planning when you have time and want to look up stuff, but to get a fast glance at somehting I belive it is pretty useless.
Gekkoh Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.12 15:16:00 - [17] Originally by: Xaen What will really shock you is some people seem to honestly think the UI is fine. Sadly, I suspect some/most/all CCP devs are among this crazy group. Well, having been responsible for several large UI features in a new client for an existing popular MMO, I can tell you straight up that most engineers (and some designers) probably shouldn't be in charge of the final UI design. Until I sat in a room with an artsy designer and the art director going over my UI designs, I didn't know just how much that type of person can see that the rest of us don't. The worst are the programmers who write UI's to be extremely task specific, so then when you put everything together there is very little cohesion. Really, you need someone in charge of the overall UI design who understands what the UI is supposed to accomplish (i.e. they need to play the damned game quite a bit first), and can create an efficient and aesthetically pleasing UI that is both intuitive and consistent throughout the game. And NOTHING should be done to the UI that doesn't get their signature on the design proposal and a thorough look over once it's implemented. I really have no idea how things work at CCP. Who knows, maybe they've got a kick-ass UI revamp in the oven. It'd be nice to know if that was the case! Unfortunately, the In Development, Drawingboard and In Testing pages don't mention much if anything about any UI improvements. Speaking of, what exactly is that in the In Testing section? It looks like the test plan for QA'ing starbases. There really isn't any explanation of what it is, rather just some instructions for the testers. Shouldn't that be populated with whatever QA is currently working on? I mean, it's cool that they are showing us the test plan, but it just seems out of place there, and without a description to put it in context, it's very odd.
Sister Impotentata Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2007.12.12 15:44:00 - [18] I have a particularly maddening (for me at least ) issue. I've tried bringing it up on the forums, but it gets buried every time and I'm not getting any feedback. Here it goes, one more time: Pre Trinity, you double clicked the title bar of a window or stack and it minimized. If you had a shortcut assigned to the window, you could press that and restore the window. Now if you double click the title bar, the window minimizes, the title bar stays right there, in the way. If you press the teensy-weenie minimize button you'll get it out of the way... but then you can't call it back up with a shortcut. Only if you leave it floating will the shortcut work. Does this bother no one else? Oh, and the "minimize all windows" shortcut? Would be nice if it minimized everything except the overview. IMO. ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by: Psycho John Petrucci If there's any point where you feel it's too difficult, then just stop. Because you just, you don't have it, you're just not good.
DrakeStone Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.12.12 15:49:00 - [19] Almost everyone is bald in this thread. I feel at home here. I have nothing of value to add to this thread. Thank you.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.12 16:32:00 - [20] Originally by: Gekkoh Well, having been responsible for several large UI features in a new client for an existing popular MMO, I can tell you straight up that most engineers (and some designers) probably shouldn't be in charge of the final UI design. Agreed! It takes a special type of person to make a good UI. Originally by: Gekkoh Until I sat in a room with an artsy designer and the art director going over my UI designs, I didn't know just how much that type of person can see that the rest of us don't. wince In my experience those artsy designers, while being a step above a typical programmer, often get taken in with idiotic UI fads like hover menus. Then use them everywhere. What people like that fail to realize is that the mouse and cursor are strictly feedback constructs until the user clicks a button on the mouse to signify intent. The only exception to this being unobnoxious tool tips that disappear as soon as the mouse leaves the area. These artsy designers are also responsible for the idiotic horizontal web page gallery that's been becoming popular of late. I want to strangle them. Horizontal scrollbars are bad! Most people only have a mouse wheel that goes up and down, if that! -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Taedrin Gallente Magellan Exploration and Survey Rare Faction	Posted - 2007.12.12 16:46:00 - [21] Originally by: Xaen Actually I think threading the UI so the fetchMeSomeData() calls don't cause the UI to hang might be almost as important. fetchMeSomeData() should include both disk I/O and network I/O. DEAR GOD YES!!!! (caps for emphasis)
Daphne Eveningstar	Posted - 2007.12.12 17:38:00 - [22] /signed game interface is stuck in 1999 needs big improvement. would also love a command console interface so I could type commands rather than giving myself carpal.
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.12 17:45:00 - [23] Originally by: Winterblink Turning on HDR+bloom really REALLY shows how the current representation of module activation is almost 100% useless. It was bad before, but it's so easy to situate your camera on some bright area of the background nebula that destroys your ability to see your bottom UI. <- Must wear sunglasses to fight as some places are so bright my pupils can't get any smaller, my irisis are looking for new tenants. Please let us turn off backgrounds. -AS The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Shionoya Risa Caldari The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2007.12.12 17:54:00 - [24] Originally by: Winterblink Turning on HDR+bloom really REALLY shows how the current representation of module activation is almost 100% useless. It was bad before, but it's so easy to situate your camera on some bright area of the background nebula that destroys your ability to see your bottom UI. Yes, yes it does. Clickeh. ----- Quote: Argh! Natural light, get it off me! Get it off me!
Darpz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.12.12 17:57:00 - [25] I think this is one area where Wow>eve. if eve could adapt the same ablity wow has to completly custimize the GUI and even add fetaures to the gui it would be a huge boost to the game.
Shionoya Risa Caldari The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2007.12.12 18:01:00 - [26] Edited by: Shionoya Risa on 12/12/2007 18:01:11 Originally by: Darpz I think this is one area where Wow>eve. if eve could adapt the same ablity wow has to completly custimize the GUI and even add fetaures to the gui it would be a huge boost to the game. Correct. <3 ----- Quote: Argh! Natural light, get it off me! Get it off me!
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.12 18:02:00 - [27] Originally by: Darpz I think this is one area where Wow>eve. if eve could adapt the same ablity wow has to completly custimize the GUI and even add fetaures to the gui it would be a huge boost to the game. Every time I suggest this, I get told by the fanbois to go back to wow, or that it would help macroers (which is irrelevant). -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Cal Orli	Posted - 2007.12.12 18:08:00 - [28] COMBAT LOG: Agree on having a combat log would be really helpful to learning the game, how and what type of damage enemies do and how it affects you and how you are doing in countering and dealing with it. I mean there is so much in eve that is an embarassment of riches when it comes to giving info, and then in combat its a bunch of flashing popups. INVENTORY MANAGEMENT: Agree on Ineventory Sorting by tabs within a station would be awesome and make it so much easier to manage items. I would love to be able to flip to a tab for my books, or my turrets. Letting us set up taps as presets for ourselves to be able to micro-manage to our hearts content would be good, that way we can have a page for just missle launchers or a page for all weapons for example. LOGIC FLOW: If an item Needs to be repackaged before i can sell it just ask me yes/no to repackage then continue the sale. Saying must be repackaged first then forcing me out to reselect and repackage then reselect and sell is annoying. There are other popups that follow the No You cant Try Again Logic that really should follow the if missing then add step and get confirmation logic in game too. MARKET COMPARISONS: Let me Compare items within the market group as well as within the variations tree whitout having to jump through hoops. A simple option to compare group selected item resides in vs compare variation of selected item. (If there is a way to set this up someone message me so i can learn it.) PRESET FITTING PLANS: OMG Preset Ship Fitting configurations. Would be awesome. As i am learnign a bit more about this game i have discovered the joy of changing configs for mission types. Having to hunt down items in the Everything is in this pile inventory system can wear me out at times. Having a preset tied to a ship type and an invnetory tab of ship fittings aka do not sell this stuff would be fun to play with and configure. WHERE THE HELL IS INTERSTELLER FED EX??? Can we get a Station to station alternative to contracts for moving stuff? Sometimes the item might not be worth all that much to move it and it would be awesome to have a ship this crap from A to B for nominal fee thing. You could even add in risk and insurance and time delay. And make it so you can do this from a remote station too.
Doppleganger Minmatar Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.12.12 18:21:00 - [29] Originally by: Gekkoh - Improve the module activation buttons on the bottom so that their current status is a little easier to see. Green and red flashing outlines have issues with bright backgrounds. The work around I have been using for this in fleet battles and such over the last yr or so is to turn on the widescreen mode even though I use a 4:3 window size. That way it puts black bars at the top and bottom of the screen making the modules and targeting icon easier to read and decipher even in a system with a bright neubla. Sad I have to use a work around for UI design.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.12.12 18:22:00 - [30] Originally by: Cal Orli COMBAT LOG: Agree on having a combat log would be really helpful to learning the game, how and what type of damage enemies do and how it affects you and how you are doing in countering and dealing with it. I mean there is so much in eve that is an embarassment of riches when it comes to giving info, and then in combat its a bunch of flashing popups. Agreed - I think this could be made very compact by using representative Icons, it could go something like this: (PLAYER NAME) : (WEAPON ICON) : (DAMAGE) : (DAMAGE TYPE ICONS) Sample: TARMINIC : [LB] : 112.7 : [T][K] LB = large blaster icon (16x16) T = Thermal Icon (16x16) K = Kinetic Icon (16x16) If the weapon icons are too small to make out you could use the name instead. Quote: INVENTORY MANAGEMENT: Agree on Ineventory Sorting by tabs within a station would be awesome and make it so much easier to manage items. I would love to be able to flip to a tab for my books, or my turrets. Letting us set up taps as presets for ourselves to be able to micro-manage to our hearts content would be good, that way we can have a page for just missle launchers or a page for all weapons for example. Agreed...maybe a few tabs with different types (All, Weapons, Charges, Skillbooks, Blueprints, Components, Modules, Misc) or even by slot (High, Medium, Low) which is something I've heard new players suggest. Quote: LOGIC FLOW: If an item Needs to be repackaged before i can sell it just ask me yes/no to repackage then continue the sale. Saying must be repackaged first then forcing me out to reselect and repackage then reselect and sell is annoying. There are other popups that follow the No You cant Try Again Logic that really should follow the if missing then add step and get confirmation logic in game too. Agreed. Quote: PRESET FITTING PLANS: OMG Preset Ship Fitting configurations. Would be awesome. As i am learnign a bit more about this game i have discovered the joy of changing configs for mission types. Having to hunt down items in the Everything is in this pile inventory system can wear me out at times. Having a preset tied to a ship type and an invnetory tab of ship fittings aka do not sell this stuff would be fun to play with and configure. Definately...a means of doing this other than having containers for this is needed, containers are kind of a work-around honestly. I have no real issues with the current EVE interface, however I'm an engineer, and engineers are legendary for being horrible at UI design, so my opinion may not be especially common. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare

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