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Arvald Caldari Trinion Enterprises	Posted - 2007.12.14 04:58:00 - [31] Originally by: Karann Originally by: Arvald Originally by: Aquilles Edited by: Aquilles on 13/12/2007 02:04:59 Edited by: Aquilles on 13/12/2007 01:27:58 The new trinity update nerfed damps really bad..... Before update: -48% targeting range -48% resolution Now: -17% targeting range -17% resolution This makes Arazu and Lachesis even weaker..... They can hardly do damage to break tanks they cant tank, now you take the damps away. As support you can damp 3 ships at once with lachesis, now 6 damps = 3 damps you can only damp one person =( . I have a friend that put 4 million skillpoints in dampeners now hes using ecm qtf is that!! CCP tryed to even them out with scripts, completely horrible. THe script incresses the damp to 34% targeting range but it makes reslotion on the damp 0% .. Drones will be an easy target now and all the enemy needs to do is mwd and web and blast away they can since the script makes your resolution useless on the damp. Oh yeah forget rigs for damps they got nerfed too. Please unnerf or make them better, lachesis and arazu cant tank or do alot dps damps are there best weapon please do something there not useless you are. off topic, but i gotta ask. how long did it take to get your avatar to have the 'i'm havin a dump right now' look? supriingly...10 miniutes =P --------------------------- Originally by: Last Wolf I prefer smartass, but I like some variety now and then.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2007.12.14 07:41:00 - [32] OHNOZ! THEY BE TAKIN MEH IWIN BUTTON! NOOOO!!! It's great being Amarr isn't it.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.12.14 08:14:00 - [33] Originally by: Kuolematon OHNOZ! THEY BE TAKIN MEH IWIN BUTTON! NOOOO!!! They didn't take the iwin button, they just gave the iwin button to Caldari now. And since your caldari you could care less. Which is why I trained for Caldari recons long ago. Thats the advantage of multiple accounts, train everything. I'm nerf proof. Hate Farmers? Click Here
Ashaz Mindstar Technology Talon Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.14 09:22:00 - [34] Originally by: James Lyrus Wrong. They're still good. You can reprocess them, and build cap boosters, and even have some spare complex materials for a new broadsword. very true. Altho i wish I ad sold my Phased Mouns before the patch -.- train another race to cruiser V? what, 2 races isnSt enough? i need to get the flavour of the month one swell? **** that. I'm dumping EW.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.12.14 10:10:00 - [35] Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 14/12/2007 10:14:19 Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 14/12/2007 10:13:02 Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 14/12/2007 10:11:15 Boo-friggin-hoo. Quit playing EvE via EFT/Quickfit and fly reality: -The Arazu/Rapier combo is still the most capable at locking targets down with impunity. -I still fly a twin damp Rapier. The only thing the damp balance (probably a bit overbalanced for the record) did was force me to train Recon L5 to ensure that I could control range on a target with 40KM webs while keeping out of lock range with a twin damp config loaded for range reduction scripts. With Signal Supression trained to L3 and a single damp rig (which needs a bit of fixing....5% bonus to 10% drawback? Meh) virtually all non-Recons STILL get to sit there twiddling thumbs unable to lock from 15-25KM depending on ship type. Add an Arazu to the mix and at Recon L5 you are talking 48k scram range PLUS 3-4 additional damps for more targets. The same goes for the Lachesis but that ship is rarely used. -Did I mention with Recon V you can scram targets from 48KM away? Even further with faction and overheating? And the Arazu cloaks? OP...you need to re-read the ship bonusses and description if you think the Arazu is rubbish especially the long range disruptor. And your skills seem lacking too as my damps ingame with range scripts loaded show a -40% targetting range each-with no ship bonus either. Solo ship setups using damps got hit the worst-but there are plenty of alternatives. "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.12.14 10:17:00 - [36] It's amusing that all the morons claiming the Arazu and Lachesis are still fine don't actually fly the ships. I do (well, did), and they are rubbish now. Train for Rook/Falcon (or the Minmatar recons, they still have a role). There is no reason to fly an Arazu/Lachesis, when with a Rook/Falcon you can totally disable 2-4 ships. Scramble range? Yeah, big deal with the new HICs and interceptors in the game now.
Ze4K DK Gallente Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.14 10:34:00 - [37] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Scramble range? Yeah, big deal with the new HICs and interceptors in the game now. New interceptors?! lol... --------------------- Ze4K knits sweaters. By knits I mean kicks and by sweaters I mean babies.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.12.14 11:04:00 - [38] Originally by: Alex Harumichi It's amusing that all the morons claiming the Arazu and Lachesis are still fine don't actually fly the ships. I do (well, did), and they are rubbish now. Train for Rook/Falcon (or the Minmatar recons, they still have a role). There is no reason to fly an Arazu/Lachesis, when with a Rook/Falcon you can totally disable 2-4 ships. Scramble range? Yeah, big deal with the new HICs and interceptors in the game now. I'm sorry but which Inty/HIC can scram from 48KM and usually will not be return locked? Which Inty/HIC can warp cloaked? I may not fly them...but believe me-the guys I fly with who do fly the Arazu are still always welcome additions to any gang. Yeah the damps got hit a little to hard and I'll bet CCP will adjust this versus ECM. But to declare the ship useless in its current state is ignorant . And for such an expert who feels calling folks "morons" for expressing an opinion you do seem to be lacking much in the way of activity on your killboard. In fact-zero. Is the Arazu really that awful?? "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.12.14 11:47:00 - [39] Originally by: RuleoftheBone I'm sorry but which Inty/HIC can scram from 48KM and usually will not be return locked? Which Inty/HIC can warp cloaked? My point was that the value of the scamble bonus has dropped. Inties have 30km range and move at 5+ km/sec, in general they make much better tacklers, and the new HIC focused mode offers 30km infinite-str scramble. Sure, the Arazu/Lach scramble bonus is nice, but it's no longer as unique or valuable as it was. For scambling, a gang will generally prefer either an inty or a HIC, now. Originally by: RuleoftheBone Yeah the damps got hit a little too hard and I'll bet CCP will adjust this versus ECM. But to declare the ship useless in its current state is ignorant . Maybe useless is an exaggeration, but I honestly don't see much case for flying these now. As EW support, a Rook/Falcon is just so much better. It's a question of relative value; if one ship in a class is the better choice in 90+% of the cases, then the other ships is close to "useless". Originally by: RuleoftheBone And for such an expert who feels calling folks "morons" for expressing an opinion you do seem to be lacking much in the way of activity on your killboard. In fact-zero. Is the Arazu really that awful?? Killboards are for losers. But no, haven't been playing Eve much for months now, other things have taken up my time. I do know how Arazu and Lach work, I've flown both quite a bit, usually as part of out EW squads. Still, you're right, "morons" is a bit too strong. I'm just a bit tired of hearing "it's fine!" comments about ship X from people who have never even flown the thing. Applies to other ships, too, of course. I've yet to find one person who has actually flown a ganglinked Eos as gang support who thinks the ship is fine now, but wonder of wonders there are tons of people chiming in to say "it's fine" based on EFT or whatever. Sigh.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.12.14 12:23:00 - [40] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Good post Hey its frustrating all around especially when these nerfs were based around dev observation and user feedback from the recent PvP Championships which are a completely artificial combat environment (pfffft...no cloaking,range restrictions,starting from the same spot....basically a rock-paper-scissors example at it's finest). The balance was overdone in this case and hopefully will be revisited by the devs down the road. But if the damps were not effective I would not have them on my Rapier. Or Huginn. Or Cheetah. I would cheerfully swap you my TP bonus for your damp bonus! Honestly I suspect most of the moaning is due to lessened ability to solo...and frankly Force Recons are there as force multipliers for gangs..not solo pwnwagons (although the Pilgrim should get back its ability to scare pilots). "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.12.14 12:37:00 - [41] Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 14/12/2007 12:38:17 Originally by: RuleoftheBone Honestly I suspect most of the moaning is due to lessened ability to solo...and frankly Force Recons are there as force multipliers for gangs..not solo pwnwagons (although the Pilgrim should get back its ability to scare pilots). Yeah. I don't mind damps being made weak on non-specialized ships, and I can live with them being a bit weaker on the specialists too (I almost always fly as gang support anyway, for solo I'd use other ships). I think the only thing that really needs to be done is to boost the Arazu/Lach EW bonus a bit. ...and yes, Pilgrim needs help, for a variety of reasons. The nosfe nerf leads to it being forced to use cap boosters, which in turn leads to grid problems and limited survivability (low dps => long fights => run out of cap charges). In addition, the TD nerf makes them even less good on the Pilgrim (and hey, they weren't very good to begin with). To add insult to injury, TDs have a basic problem on the Pilgrim in any case: they need to fight at med neut/nosfe range, which means that the optimal range reduction script is useless, and because they are also fighting in (overloaded) web range, so is the tracking disruption one . Nano Curse is still viable, but... generally, I shouldn't complain about the Arazu and Lachesis too much, since the Amarr are the ones who really have something to complain about. Here's hoping the Arazu/Lach & Curse/Pilgrim get some EW love at some point. I'm not wild about the prospect of "all ECM, all the time" in the game. We've already started seeing Curses with mids full of ECM...

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