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Aeroxe	Posted - 2007.12.14 09:07:00 - [1] Is there a war with the Amarr? Are our people being kidnapped and nothing being done? I have just started and I have spent the majority of time vaporizing Amarr aggressors. Is there no official standing? No War? Should there be? So, with that, I am looking for a corporation free from all Amarr scum. A corp dedicated to the eradication of slavery and Amarr incursion of our home. A corp not afraid to go to war but is careful at the same time. Someone, who believes that sometimes a good defense, is a strong offense.
Alexi Borizkova Caldari New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.12.14 09:22:00 - [2] There can only exist a state of warfare between two nations. Since the Amarr do not recognize the Minmatar "republic" as an entity, there is no state of war, only a continued action against terrorists. The republic does their part to reinforce this view by behaving like petty raiders, and using their concord approved status as a signatory to act as a protected place for the training, recruitment, and armament of terrorists.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.14 09:37:00 - [3] There is no war between the Empire and the Republic as that would be the end of the Yulai accord and the end of Concord protection in their sovereign space. Of course this state of affairs is made worse by Prime Minister Midular's regime pandering to the slavers and their minions. All to protect the safety of the few while ignoring the millions of tribesmen left fighting on the rim or, worse still, toiling in Amarrian death camps. If you seek those who are willing to do whatever it takes to free our people you must look outside the Republic as the Republic will denounce you as a traitor the moment you harm the slavers and bring war a day closer. The Ushra'Khan know the truth. War with the slavers is the only path to freedom and peace for the Matari. We may be regarded as traitors, Thukker pirates, smugglers and terrorists but we are the thin red line that brings hope for our childrens future. We fly on the wings of freedom. We come for our people.
Lucius Dracus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.14 10:52:00 - [4] You should be thankful there is no war, for open war could only lead to one thing, your inevitable defeat.
Aeroxe	Posted - 2007.12.14 11:04:00 - [5] Yes, you are right Luci. Oh, wait, there was war before and you couldn't stop us. Your Empire is falling apart. The Khanid and Minmatar are examples of Amarri failing strength.
Ontaku Oroa Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.14 11:50:00 - [6] Inevitable defeat? I laugh at that statement. All the Republic Fleet would have to do is bolster our already laser-resistant armor, a feat easily achievable with the modular design of our warships which allow for the use of a wide variety of weapon, electronic and defense systems. Amarr would have to retrofit their entire Golden Fleet if they wished to cease being totally predictable. Sheer numbers then? First, the Republic armed forces are not a ragtag bunch of rebels the Amarr seem to think they are. Our Fleet is more than capable going head-to-head with the Empire, especially considering the antiquated design of Amarr ships and even more archaic strategies their fleet employs. Second, I seriously doubt the Gallente Federation would stand by idly and simply observe such a struggle. I even doubt that the Caldari would step in on the Amarr side - war is not profitable, and siding with the Federation and the Republic against the Empire would open up two future free markets rather than a single autocratic one. If anyone should fear war, it is the Amarr.
Khaldur Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.12.14 12:02:00 - [7] Until ceasefire was declared just half a year ago the Minmatar "Republic" waged a war against the Ammatar Mandate. The "Republic" forces could not win the upper hand over the Ammatar Fleet and at times even struggled to hold the line. No one would question the fact that the Ammatar Fleet is not really impressive in size or sophistication. In no way it can be compared to the mightiest Navy in the cluster which is the Imperial Navy of Amarr. So it is not difficult to predict the outcome of an open attack of "Republic" forces against the Amarr Empire. The Midular regime seems to be very well aware of that and thus refrains from any provocations. Unlike the more feral individuals of the Matari race who like to raise their bloody fists on every occaision and wallow in the blood of civilians. Recruiting
Tablaren Kingdom of Kador Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.14 12:05:00 - [8] Originally by: Ontaku Oroa Inevitable defeat? I laugh at that statement. All the Republic Fleet would have to do is bolster our already laser-resistant armor, a feat easily achievable with the modular design of our warships which allow for the use of a wide variety of weapon, electronic and defense systems. Amarr would have to retrofit their entire Golden Fleet if they wished to cease being totally predictable. Sheer numbers then? First, the Republic armed forces are not a ragtag bunch of rebels the Amarr seem to think they are. Our Fleet is more than capable going head-to-head with the Empire, especially considering the antiquated design of Amarr ships and even more archaic strategies their fleet employs. Second, I seriously doubt the Gallente Federation would stand by idly and simply observe such a struggle. I even doubt that the Caldari would step in on the Amarr side - war is not profitable, and siding with the Federation and the Republic against the Empire would open up two future free markets rather than a single autocratic one. If anyone should fear war, it is the Amarr. You are right, I mean, it's plainly obvious after your victory in providence, and the way you resoundly defeated PIE Inc till they left for calderi space that you can not lose. Oh, right... But, then the Defiants resoundly defeated the 7th fleet. It's not like they were unable to achieve victory while the Amarr communications were offline. Oh yeah... When you tell your grandchildren about what you did, will you still beat your chest proudly and trumpet victories that only illiterate peasants conceive as such?
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.14 12:31:00 - [9] There is a reason the Republic does not fight the Empire, it can't afford it. The Republic cannot even feed the population it has. So before we split hairs and talk about facts none of us are fully aware of, let uss look at what we do know. The Republic cannot control one its fleets, it cannot feed its population, and no pod pilot reprisents it because it is either not suicidal enough for these damaged slaves or they are too divided to really have a single pod pilot entity reprisent them. So UK may say what they wish, but they don't speak for the Republic, they speak for themselves. As do other 'freedom fighter terrorists' - or whatever they call themselves now. ----
Jacinda Molanth	Posted - 2007.12.14 12:33:00 - [10] While it's true the Amarr Empire has a vast number of ships, they are no longer the technological powerhouse they once were. Today the Caldari, in my opinion, have the most advanced technology. However with the announcement of the new Phoenix Arms Broadsword class Minmatar cruiser, the Hurricane Battle Cruiser as well as the Maelstrom Battleship we Minmatar have achieved a huge step towards the high water mark of technology. Add to this the adaptability and flexibility of our designs as well as the choice of multitudes of ammo for adjustable damage types and you now have possibly the best ships around. On top of this our ships are manned by free people who have a painful reminder of what loss would mean and as so would fight with a resolve and purpose beyond imagination. Do not be so confident about our easy defeat. Sometimes quality vastly outweighs quantity. Jacinda Molanth
Aeroxe	Posted - 2007.12.14 13:05:00 - [11] My point is simple. The minmatar do not have the most impressive military. Look at it this way. It was not long ago that the Minmatar split from the Amarr. How many thousands of years have the Amarr had to build military might. Yet in a few short moments in Amarr, history, the Minmatar have built a military the Amarr cannot handle. What will be in a hundred years. The Matar will be fast growing and extremely powerful. Our financial base will be set and our people safe from slavery. All because a few brave fighters kept the balance. The Amarr will be working in their own factories and fields. The Amarr will finnally sweat over hard work. Not the worry about when they get the new interior for their luxury cruiser.
Ontaku Oroa Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.14 13:23:00 - [12] Exactly Ms. Molanth. However, I do think that quality-over-quantity is a concept somewhat lost on the Amarr. As they do with most of things in their society, they judge the quality of an item or an idea solely on its outward appearance, failing to grasp the inner strength of such. For example, if they paid half the attention they do on the painting and polishing of their ships to actually improving their engineering characteristics, we would be a world of hurt. Fortunately, they don't. Oh and Mr. Tablaren. We are not talking about privateer ships clashing against each other. We are talking about stock fleets, not heavily modified and upgraded versions of those stock hulls which are only flown (and can be afforded) by capsuleers. For example, a capsuleer Armageddon-class battleship is worth ten stock Imperial Fleet issue Armageddons. I know because I went against both. They also cost as many times more. Not to mention that the capsuleer ships are notoriously unpredictable precisely because of the massive amount of funds and effort that goes into their outfitting per single ship. Even so, in the capsuleer community it is widely accepted that Amarr designs are most easily predicted and countered. As for the financial well-being of the Republic, I am not an economist and so cannot speak with authority on this issue, but an Amarr loyalist cannot either. I haven't seen any more squalor and poverty on Minmatar worlds and stations than in any other part of the cluster. We as a people value simplicity and practicality, forgoing gilded halls and rich attire for something more usable. Some would make a mistake of judging us poor... as I said, the Amarr usually value a thing solely by its outward appearance. Do not judge the Republic's financial power as poor simply because we do not expend vast amounts of money and effort on painting our stations and ships in gold.
Sofring Eternus Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.14 13:31:00 - [13] Republic did not build its own fleet as you seem to be trying to suggest. They had significant assistance from the Gallente Federation, without whom, the Republic would not exist or at least would be significantly weaker. --- ΞνΞ ΘΠLІΠΞ Amarr dont need Grr... and RAWR is definately too much, but some Oomph would be nice.
Ontaku Oroa Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.14 13:38:00 - [14] "Had" is the key word here. The Republic is now fully capable of maintaining its own armed forces without the need for outside aid. Stop living in the past. Oh wait, it's what being Amarr is all about, eh?
Arvald Caldari Trinion Enterprises	Posted - 2007.12.14 16:31:00 - [15] Originally by: Ontaku Oroa Inevitable defeat? I laugh at that statement. All the Republic Fleet would have to do is bolster our already laser-resistant armor, a feat easily achievable with the modular design of our warships which allow for the use of a wide variety of weapon, electronic and defense systems. Amarr would have to retrofit their entire Golden Fleet if they wished to cease being totally predictable. Sheer numbers then? First, the Republic armed forces are not a ragtag bunch of rebels the Amarr seem to think they are. Our Fleet is more than capable going head-to-head with the Empire, especially considering the antiquated design of Amarr ships and even more archaic strategies their fleet employs. Second, I seriously doubt the Gallente Federation would stand by idly and simply observe such a struggle. I even doubt that the Caldari would step in on the Amarr side - war is not profitable, and siding with the Federation and the Republic against the Empire would open up two future free markets rather than a single autocratic one. If anyone should fear war, it is the Amarr. i agree if war was to break out between teh amarr and minmatar, my brothers along with teh gallente would shurely step in to help --------------------------- Originally by: Last Wolf I prefer smartass, but I like some variety now and then.
Shern Minmatar Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.12.14 18:23:00 - [16] It does not matter how big or technologically advanced the tribal fleet becomes, it will not be able to win a clean victory over Mandate or certainly over Empire naval forces. The 'great war' against the amarr is a trap that will kill alot of innocent people. There will be no winners - only losers. Midular and the other republic loyalists are very brave to stand against the matari warlords, like the misguided Ushra'Khan. The standoff between Mandate and Empire and the tribals will best be settled with words, not war.
Kabajashi San Minmatar Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.14 18:46:00 - [17] Edited by: Kabajashi San on 14/12/2007 18:46:57 I find it a very bad sign when the Nefantar traitors praise the glory of the Republic leaders. You can exchange as many words with the Amarr as you wish, they won't give flys'hit about it. On the fleet subject I can only say: Bring it on. You think the Golden Fleet is superior to the Republican Navy? When why wait with the reclaiming? Isn't it HIS will as you so constantly say? The Republic will not start the big standoff until a competent political leader is in charge.
Tablaren Kingdom of Kador Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.14 19:45:00 - [18] Originally by: Kabajashi San Edited by: Kabajashi San on 14/12/2007 18:46:57 I find it a very bad sign when the Nefantar traitors praise the glory of the Republic leaders. You can exchange as many words with the Amarr as you wish, they won't give flys'hit about it. On the fleet subject I can only say: Bring it on. You think the Golden Fleet is superior to the Republican Navy? When why wait with the reclaiming? Isn't it HIS will as you so constantly say? The Republic will not start the big standoff until a competent political leader is in charge. More proof you are just a filthy little savage. Only an incompetant would think that it's the Imperial will to reclaim you when over a HUNDRED years of imperial policy and edicts have been to nurture peace and good relations. But hey, I guess some criminals will grasp at any excuse they can for a reason to start a war.
Aria Jenneth Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.14 19:49:00 - [19] Between the two of us, Mr. San, I think the last thing the Minmatar Republic foreign policy (or anyone else's, really) needs is a bad case of bravado. First, you've got the fact that the Amarr do actually have the largest fleet in the cluster. While that does not, alone, make them invincible, it does make them a force to be reckoned with. Second, you've got the fact that the Amarr are currently allied with the Caldari State. This is a problem for you. The Caldari have the smallest fleet in the cluster, yes, but it's designed to be able to engage and defeat any other empire's fleet-- and if I remember correctly, Matari ships are uniquely vulnerable to kinetic attack, in which the Caldari specialize. For instances in which this is not the case, Caldari missile launchers can switch out missiles as easily as you can switch out artillery shells. Additionally, while over time I've grown to respect Matari ship design, it can't really be argued that your electronics and sensor systems are exactly top-grade. In fact, they lag behind even the Amarr, which brings us to the next Caldari specialty: electronic countermeasures. When piloting a blackbird on a raid, I personally tend to load ladar jammers and scan my overview for vagabonds. They're remarkably easy to take out of a fight in this way since, if they load any missiles at all, it's usually the dumb-fire HAMs rather than any launcher type that can load friend-or-foe. Granted, this is glossing over somewhat the probable involvement of the Gallente, who have somewhat more experience fighting Caldari forces. I've got a sneaking suspicion, though, that the strategy on the Caldari / Amarr side of such a war would involve pitting Caldari ships against the Republic and the overwhelming Amarr fleet against the Gallente. If a war were to begin under present circumstances, your defeat might not be inevitable (especially since I believe the CEP is wary of the intentions of the Amarr), but the result would be a profoundly ugly war that would probably embroil all four empires. I'm not sure who would end up on which side by the end, but it's pretty clear that "bring it on" is not the cry of well-thought-out long-term strategic policy. Aria Jenneth Hakase 016 Omerta Syndicate
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.12.14 19:53:00 - [20] The Minmatar people are warriors. The Amarr aren't. While we are gravely lacking in material and the support of the economy, I believe all out war would be a much closer battle than any Amarrian would like to believe, especially if it came down to planetary surface warfare. Resources is the only thing keeping us away from the Amarrians throats. Give it time. A hundred years at most.
Tablaren Kingdom of Kador Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.14 20:11:00 - [21] Originally by: Cipher7 The Minmatar people are warriors. The Amarr aren't. While we are gravely lacking in material and the support of the economy, I believe all out war would be a much closer battle than any Amarrian would like to believe, especially if it came down to planetary surface warfare. Resources is the only thing keeping us away from the Amarrians throats. Give it time. A hundred years at most. Yes... prepare a hundred years for a war. You are a capsuleer so it's possible you will see those days. Condemn your grandchildren to a lifetime in which a city they live in might be vaporized because you do not have the foresight to see that war will be brutal on both sides and try avoid it. Good plan you have there, no flaws in that.
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.12.14 20:12:00 - [22] Let me make clear, I am not necessarily opposed to the Empire, other than the fact that it treats our people badly. To me the Empire is just one more faction, no different from the Federation. The difference is the Federation came to us kindly, while the Empire came to us with cruelty. The Empire's best bet is to support the Ammattar Mandate, and try to attract the Minmatar people's loyalty through good works rather than coercion. Phasing out slavery would be a good start.
Azador Kavian Amarr Ordo Sanctus Imperator Templarii	Posted - 2007.12.14 20:14:00 - [23] Originally by: Cipher7 The Minmatar people are warriors. The Amarr aren't. And yet, we managed to decimate your armies and enslave your entire pathetic civilization in a matter of years. You think your people are "warriors?" You are disorganized and primitive sub-human barbarians. The only reason your weakling race is able to loosely call itself a "republic" is because of weakness in the Imperial throne. Had Heideran not stolen the Imperial title from God's chosen heir, All Matari would still be under Amarrian dominion. The Kingdom didn't experience the slave rebellion that the misguided Empire did. Hail Khanid, --------------- Grand Master of the Ordo Sanctus Imperator Templarii, Military order of the Khanid Kingdom
Dionisius Gallente Vagabundos	Posted - 2007.12.14 20:15:00 - [24] Originally by: Cipher7 Let me make clear, I am not necessarily opposed to the Empire, other than the fact that it treats our people badly. To me the Empire is just one more faction, no different from the Federation. The difference is the Federation came to us kindly, while the Empire came to us with cruelty. The Empire's best bet is to support the Ammattar Mandate, and try to attract the Minmatar people's loyalty through good works rather than coercion. Phasing out slavery would be a good start. The Minmatar people and their warriors are not alone. _____________________________________
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.12.14 20:32:00 - [25] Originally by: Tablaren you do not have the foresight to see that war will be brutal on both sides The brutality started for the Matari people when the slave ships landed. The brutality is going on now, today, in death camps all across the Empire. Let an Amarrian mother weep for her children for a change.
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.12.14 20:41:00 - [26] Originally by: Azador Kavian And yet, we managed to decimate your armies and enslave your entire pathetic civilization in a matter of years. You think your people are "warriors?" You are disorganized and primitive sub-human barbarians. The only reason your weakling race is able to loosely call itself a "republic" is because of weakness in the Imperial throne. Had Heideran not stolen the Imperial title from God's chosen heir, All Matari would still be under Amarrian dominion. The Kingdom didn't experience the slave rebellion that the misguided Empire did. Hail Khanid, The Kingdom? Isn't your patriarch that coward who fled the succession trials? Khanid whats his face? Heideran was the smartest leader the Empire ever had. A pity that most of the chickenhawk Reclaimers never had the brains to see it.
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.14 21:48:00 - [27] If it came to war, no doubt the Amarr would fight the Republic to the very last Ammatar... And to Aeroxe, if you wonder why nothing is done about the slave raids into Minmatar space, why not ask your representative in Parliament why so little is done to rid even the Republic of slavery, let alone bring our brethren home from the slave camps in Amarrian space? -- Becq Starforged proprietor of Starforge Industries, a subsidiary of Minmatar Ship Construction Services At Starforge Industries, the world of tomorrow is being blown apart today!
Ontaku Oroa Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.14 23:36:00 - [28] Originally by: Tablaren More proof you are just a filthy little savage. Only an incompetant would think that it's the Imperial will to reclaim you when over a HUNDRED years of imperial policy and edicts have been to nurture peace and good relations. Nurture peace and good relations? I do not know about you, but somehow the notion of the Amarr Empire holding millions of our people in chains is not exactly conductive to nurturing of peace and good relations! For decades now the Amarr Empire has been floating on its past glories. Those days are over. As for the State assisting the Empire should it come to war, as I said, it is unlikely. The State is first and foremost concerned with profit. It would be an unwise move to alienate two markets for the favor of one. Especially since having the Amarr actually absorb more territory would tip the scales in favor of the Empire - I wonder how long it would take for the greedy eyes of slavers to turn their gaze upon their supposed allies? Especially considering that during my raids on Amarr convoys my ships have rescued a good number of Caldari citizens as well? It seems the Amarr already do not value their allies too much. A fact I am sure the State leadership is well aware of. The current state of status quo cannot continue. It is the Amarr who are upsetting the spirit of peace by refusing to renounce the despicable practice of slavery, practice outlawed by all other major powers in the cluster, and free all the slaves. If they so continue, there will be no other recourse but a full scale war. And the Empire WILL rue the day such a war begins. To all who doubt the Matari people - do not underestimate the blazing fire in our hearts. It may be sleeping now, but the day it awakes all the cluster shall shake from its wrath. And then no amount of praying will help the enemies of freedom.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Dichotomy Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.12.15 00:14:00 - [29] Captain Oroa speaks much truth. Unwise is the man who does not heed him. ----- The views expressed in these posts, while inarguably correct, are not neccessarily the views of my corporation or alliance. I never sleep. I wait.
Lyra Garris Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.15 02:18:00 - [30] It is no surprise to see the Ushra'Khan warmongers out in force spreading their calls of hatred and violence to anyone that looks like they might listen. Ushra'Khan is an organization that is sustained solely by hatred and violence; if peace were declared between all the Empires on mutually agreeable terms they would find some bone to pick with somebody and declare war on them. Oh, wait... Which brings me to the topic of war. Ushra'Khan seems to like war, seems to see war as a good thing, encourages war. Ushra'Khan is being typically foolish in this practice - Ushra'Khan has no idea what war means. The closest they have seen to war is when CVA kicked them out of Providence, and one could hardly call that a war - It might have been war in the limited, narrow context that capsuleers define it, as capsuleers have the curious habit of defining events on a capsuleer scale rather than on a clusterwide one, but in the grand scheme that was a series of tiny skirmishes. It is all too easy for a capsuleer to lose touch of reality, isolated as they are in their little life-pods, immune to the sudden death of a ship depressurizing in the middle of space, able to be cloned if in some event their little pod is ruptured by enemy weapons. Some capsuleers, those with less maturity and wisdom, use their effective immortality to sink into the depths of sin and hedonism, but the worst kind use their effective immortality to kill as many noncapsuleers as possible. The worst of the worst, like Ushra'Khan, hide behind rhetoric and spin while doing it - At least the common pirate is honest enough to say he's going to kill you for fun and profit. That said, Ushra'Khan wants war. Let me tell you a bit about war. War is what happened when the Gallente bombarded the Caldari off their home planet, and when the Caldari responded by flying a freighter into Gallente Prime. If you believe the rumors, war is what happened when the Amarr Navy obliterated the entire Starkmanir Tribe for starting the rebellion. War is when a pilot going into battle can't be certain if he's going to have a home to go back to when the shooting stops. In war, millions, possibly billions, of people die without having clones to fall back to. Entire cultures and civilizations are destroyed and written out of history. War is brutal. Now, let's take a look at the sides. The Amarr Navy is the largest military in the cluster, exceeding the combined size of the Republic Fleet and the Federation Navy. Having few logistical concerns, the Amarr Navy is capable of operating in an area for extended periods of time with a narrow supply line. Amarr ships, though not as technologically-advanced as the Caldari, are still effective and well-designed, capable of withstanding impressive amounts of damage. The Amarr favor tracking disruption technology that dramatically decreases the effectiveness of turret-based weapons, weapons commonly used by the Minmatar. The Amarr Navy is a slow, armored juggernaut that rolls over everything in its way. The Republic Fleet is the second-smallest fleet of the four, larger only than the Caldari Navy. Heavily ammunition-dependent, the Republic Fleet requires more logistics of more varied types than any other fleet - They require great volumes of missiles, ammunition, and drones, and use a great variety of equipment that all has to be supplied. Minmatar ships lack technological precision and expertise; most of their recent gains have been given to them by the Gallente, and only now are Minmatar laboratories starting to produce innovations worthy of being called useful. The Minmatar favor target painting equipment and stasis webifiers as their electronic warfare weapons of choice, which is somewhat strange as both of these weapons are most effective AGAINST Minmatar ship designs and not as useful fighting ships of other empires (Amarr least of all). On the battlefield, the Republic Fleet has proved unable to beat the small Ammatar Navy.

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