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BBC: negative reporting of Eve, but positive report on Second Life

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Lissa Isillia	Posted - 2007.12.15 01:39:00 - [31] What a load of crap. I know IRL players of this game and MMOs in general who are very intelligent and successful business/service people in high stress jobs. What the author fails to realize that for the majority of players it is a stress relieving hobby that they use to wind down with after work. Some go watch a movie, some go play sport, others play games.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.15 02:00:00 - [32] Pardon me, Professor, I only make about 40k a year, with benefits covered by the company, and four weeks of paid vacation a year and a cozy little desk. BTW, I'm a drafter/project manager for an architectural firm. We do a lot of religious and educational projects, including multimillion dollar megachurches. Yeah, Professor, I'd like fries with that, and hurry up, I'm running late for a meeting
Zekarus Caldari MAIDS Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.12.15 02:34:00 - [33] This is why I decided I didn't want to be a doctor or a lawyer back in high school. Too many arrogant "i r betta than u" motherhumpers. Although I admit I probably wouldn't have gotten the mark to get into the courses, I hope that the point still stands. =/ Most people who speak like that grew up a nice, safe and sheltered life. Like those rich bastards who grew up in affluent family, going on about crap they don't fully understand. It's like watching a blind man talk about how beautiful a sunrise is. Unless he did work as low-paid and low-skilled job and have felt need to escape reality, it's highly doubtful he has full grasp of what he is saying. Qualifications do not automatically translate to intelligence or even wisdom. My run-ins as [court] interpreter with so called "qualified" people with "doctorates" tells me so. -------- MAIDS. Now with black, frilly uniforms.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.15 03:07:00 - [34] It's funny how MMOGs get labelled escapism when their purpose is to create a fictional environment with real people, rather than a purely fictional environment. - DesuSigs
Alex Terman Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.12.15 03:10:00 - [35] Blame it on "The Sims".
Phelan Driscoll GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.15 04:01:00 - [36] Edited by: Phelan Driscoll on 15/12/2007 04:01:35 Originally by: Masheine For everybody crying foul, Castonova is a well respected member of the niche group of academics that are studying mmo's, and has been for a long time. The article is deplorable, and poorly researched, but that's no fault of Ed's. He's an honest researcher, who generally knows what he's talking about, not some fly-by-nighter making commentary to get a paycheck. Possible Translations: I couldn't get funding for a real research project or I have tenure and no longer care. snip Signature is totally inappropriate and not allowed on EvE Forums. Contact us at [email protected] if you have any queries - Valorem
Faith Black Minmatar Rolls Roids	Posted - 2007.12.15 04:20:00 - [37] If he's right and people try to escape into a virtual world, because they think it's better, either because it's less boring than their real-life or less problematic, then it's their right to do so. Instead of blaming the people or the mmorpg, one should blame the circumstances in the real world that make people prefer a virtual world over it. People are free to do, what they want to do. They don't need to 'function' in a certain way to the pleasure of the rest of the world. If someone is fedup with the real world for whatever reason, but has a good time online, then let him ! Ok, I've just become the attorney of all escapists. Is that the right word ?
Zenst Gallente Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.12.15 05:01:00 - [38] Thats because staff there play second life and not eve. I also recall a article were it had a community bit which if you looked at the name and did a little digging upon the BBC site would yeild a the same name attached to a fair few articles as a reporter. Biased, maybe. But is it intentional or based upon what they know? Now all CCP need to do is contact the chap at click and do a some exclusive and thats now media works ;).
Karlemgne Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.15 05:04:00 - [39] You want to know something funny. I've actually met and had a conversation with the man who's CV you linked (about MMOs). -Karl
Karlemgne Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.15 05:07:00 - [40] Edited by: Karlemgne on 15/12/2007 05:10:10 Edited by: Karlemgne on 15/12/2007 05:08:10 And oh, btw, he isn't critiquing MMOs. He's critiquing capitalism, for what its worth, and suggesting that its a sad state of affairs that people choose to make their whole life a virtual one because of how poor their real life situation is. If you want to totally discount this group of the player base for ANY MMO, be my guest. The man does have a point though, and its a bit deeper than what's given to us in that BBC link. The academic you've linked actually plays an MMO, in fact. I had a conversation with him about this topic, because my academic interests are similar to his. I want to look at online communities and identity formation... -Karl
Missy X	Posted - 2007.12.15 05:57:00 - [41] The OP has misinterpreted the article completely. This guy doesn't say anything about EVE at all directly, he only mentions the word "starship captain" once. His point is, that people would rather play MMORPGs rather than be in the real world because being a starship captain would (according to him) be a lot more fun than working at Starbucks. That's not a negative comment about EVE, or a positive one about Second Life. Academics, journalists and other overpaid idiots love Second Life because it's very "sandboxy" and they can write lots of stupid essays and articles about it and look clever. Doesn't change the fact that nobody cares. Second Life is resoundingly unpopular in my country, and is generally considered to be gimmicky nonsense for borderline-autistic nutbags by anyone who doesn't write pointless articles for a living.
Jane Spondogolo NoobWaffe	Posted - 2007.12.15 06:07:00 - [42] Oh boy. Here we go. As much as I love the Terra Nova people for being academics who take games seriously, they miss the mark so spectacularly sometimes (Except Nate Combs <3 spunky eve stories) about trends in gameing. Second life is a mirage. Its inflated figures hide the fact that nobody plays the damn things. Its all strap-on attachment markets and wierd furries as far as the eye can see. Yet the academics seem convinced its the best thing since sliced bread. It really isn't its a dreadfully boring lag simulator based on broken mechanics and a DRM scheme so restrictive and distopian as to make the whole exercise un fun as well. Eve has its moments of un-fun as well (lol titans) but as a whole EVE is a compelling little universe that whilst being a 'sandbox' has real goals (Kill bob/goon , world dommination, get that officer blinged CNR) and you have to scheme plot and plan for it. You cant just whip out the credit card, buy "lindens" and have it. Second life is a sham. It got hyped as the 'next big game' by people who don't play games, didnt know it was already as old of the hills, and couldn't recognise an elaborate marketting ploy. WOW is the true contender for the 'big thing' title. Its dull as hell, but its got the market. EVE could be, but I suspect most of us enjoy it being a niche game of space-chess for thoughtful gamers. As long as CCP doesnt jump the shark and introduce cash-for-ships type nonsense (see Sonys failures) , or try and dumb it down (see SWG), EVE will continue as the underdog wondergame with the greatest stories. That said, especially with Nate Combes awesome series on EVE , I think the Terra Nova crowd are starting to realise where the special stuff is happening. Incidently, the BBC story there didnt actually mention EVE. So yeah Tinfoil hats anyone? ______ Unrepentant Southern Federation Cheerleader.
Jane Spondogolo NoobWaffe	Posted - 2007.12.15 06:14:00 - [43] Edited by: Jane Spondogolo on 15/12/2007 06:15:13 This is the better story;- Universal avatars bestride worlds http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7038039.stm Oh how I'd love to drop my vulture into Second life and just start sniping away. A girl can dream can she not? edit: Or drop an "Avatar" titan onto WOW. "Lol dungeon raid doomsday" ______ Unrepentant Southern Federation Cheerleader.
Karlemgne Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.15 06:16:00 - [44] Originally by: Jane Spondogolo Oh boy. Here we go. As much as I love the Terra Nova people for being academics who take games seriously, they miss the mark so spectacularly sometimes (Except Nate Combs <3 spunky eve stories) about trends in gameing. Second life is a mirage. Its inflated figures hide the fact that nobody plays the damn things. Its all strap-on attachment markets and wierd furries as far as the eye can see. Yet the academics seem convinced its the best thing since sliced bread. It really isn't its a dreadfully boring lag simulator based on broken mechanics and a DRM scheme so restrictive and distopian as to make the whole exercise un fun as well. Eve has its moments of un-fun as well (lol titans) but as a whole EVE is a compelling little universe that whilst being a 'sandbox' has real goals (Kill bob/goon , world dommination, get that officer blinged CNR) and you have to scheme plot and plan for it. You cant just whip out the credit card, buy "lindens" and have it. Second life is a sham. It got hyped as the 'next big game' by people who don't play games, didnt know it was already as old of the hills, and couldn't recognise an elaborate marketting ploy. WOW is the true contender for the 'big thing' title. Its dull as hell, but its got the market. EVE could be, but I suspect most of us enjoy it being a niche game of space-chess for thoughtful gamers. As long as CCP doesnt jump the shark and introduce cash-for-ships type nonsense (see Sonys failures) , or try and dumb it down (see SWG), EVE will continue as the underdog wondergame with the greatest stories. That said, especially with Nate Combes awesome series on EVE , I think the Terra Nova crowd are starting to realise where the special stuff is happening. Incidently, the BBC story there didnt actually mention EVE. So yeah Tinfoil hats anyone? I wouldn't exactly agree with you. That isn't the only MMO that academics (or aspiring ones like myself) are interested in. In fact, I couldn't be more uninterested. -Karl
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.12.15 06:58:00 - [45] Originally by: Crumplecorn It's funny how MMOGs get labelled escapism when their purpose is to create a fictional environment with real people, rather than a purely fictional environment. It's also funny that most workplaces can typically be lumped into the description as "a fictional environment with real people". 'Course, point that out to an academic, and you're likely to be responded to with harsh negativity.
EVIL SYNNs Minmatar The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.15 08:22:00 - [46] As someone who makes a living in Second Life and employs 5 staff in two offices in the UK all working in Second Life, making real money, paying real salaries. Comparing Eve and other MMORPG's (eve) to Second Life is like comparing MMORPG to the internet. They are very different things, and shouldn't be compared. I've read allot about how Second Life is over hyped, figures are wrong, etc. But the bottom line is that it makes me money so I can play Eve and until Google bring out their 3d world system (currently in development) it will be the corner stone of my company. SL has over taken EVE as simultaneous users, so its doing something right. p.s. remember the internet 10 years ago... "Thats where I heard all that stuff before" NO SIG REQURIED
DJ P	Posted - 2007.12.15 09:13:00 - [47] Why bother? Those "in a good job" are : a) The people who are glued on TV watching one soap behind the other for HOURS. b) The people who are working 24/7 (Executives, etc etc) c) The people where their only entertainment is go out for booze. d) Their only contact with MMOs is Second Life or WoW because of the vast advertisement. (Have you see William Shatner and Mr T advertising WOW? Ridicoulous). And they do their research based on them. Sorry guys but the whole research is ******** to start with, based on their research subjects. If someone do a research on EVE about people's jobs he will find that a very good percentage are IT Admins, Programmers, and relative IT jobs. So I should agree that we have LOW PAID Jobs (nobody understands either way). And the people who hire us thing that it's a "low skill" job too. Because they are not "technical" as they claim. These have a "good job".
Forando Interstellar Cowards	Posted - 2007.12.15 10:11:00 - [48] Originally by: Jack Target The BBC annoys me. They quote an author, Dr Castronova, as saying: Blah blah blah Mr. Freeman Now, who ganked this guys hauler? Enjoy, and fly safe..
Tzar'rim Minmatar Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2007.12.15 10:16:00 - [49] His 3 month old character probably got it's faction fitted CNR blown up that he had bought with GTC's by pirates. ------ Act quickly, think slowly.
ZerKar Caldari Zen'Tar	Posted - 2007.12.15 10:35:00 - [50] Originally by: Kurogauna Edited by: Kurogauna on 15/12/2007 00:07:50 Eve will beat second life when ambulation will come out ^^ Nonsense, Second Life offers a number of key things that EvE even with Ambulation will not. However, I think comparing the two while on some basis is alright is mostly a matter of Apples and Oranges. +++++++++++++++ I saw the Sign...! O.o
Omega Man The Geddy Foundation	Posted - 2007.12.15 10:41:00 - [51] The article is correct on one point, I'd rather be a spaceship pilot than a starbucks worker. Anyone who does not needs their head examined. - - Happy user of CAOD troll cleaner http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=584345
Scimon Tinker	Posted - 2007.12.15 10:43:00 - [52] Originally by: CCP kieron Removed some of the more inflammatory posts in the thread. While some may not agree with the sentiments presented by the media or personages, there's no need to make assumptions about their private lives. Keep the discussion on topic, please. I wish the BBC had moderators like you then. HE made some assumptions on a persons private life. One of the reasons why i play eve is for an escape from my RL. It is also one of the reasons why i read books, play sports, play the PS3, go to the pub, etc etc. Escapeism is a huge reason for people do do many things and not just play MMOLG's. Unfortunatly people wish to constantly place blame on stuffÖ and rarely take responsibility for anything. I have a 4yr old son who is about to grow up in a world where there is nowhere for him to actually go out and play. Activities for the young and activities for todays youth have been almost eradicated and society has slowy degenerated. As a responsible parent I try to maintain a balance for him with PC and Console games and propper RL activities (Judo) My RL Fitting : Hi slots 1x GF 2x Kids 1x Mortgage Mids 1x Decent well paid Job 1x Shaguar X-Type Lows 1x Addiction to EVE-Online 1x Addiction to my Book collection
Forando Interstellar Cowards	Posted - 2007.12.15 11:00:00 - [53] Originally by: ZerKar Originally by: Kurogauna Eve will beat second life when ambulation will come out ^^ Nonsense, Second Life offers a number of key things that EvE even with Ambulation will not. True! I bet EVE, even with Amulation, will never have a station full of furries cyboring! Enjoy, and fly safe..
Higgs Foton Die industries Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2007.12.15 11:05:00 - [54] Actually: My name in EVE is the name i chose when i started "playing" second life. Though i stopped after a few weeks, because second life is UTTERLY BORING. It is only fun if you can own ground, so you can build stuff, but owning a piece of ground there big enough to build nice things, is moneywise about the same as 10 eve subscriptions. So i chose buzzing around in spaceships instead. The name was cool, so i kept that one. ___________________________________
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.12.15 11:10:00 - [55] Originally by: Crumplecorn It's funny how MMOGs get labelled escapism when their purpose is to create a fictional environment with real people, rather than a purely fictional environment. couldn't agree more Originally by: Death Kill Go travel or live in the rainforest if neccesary, just dont turn to religion as its a cul de sac.
corporal hicks Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.12.15 11:28:00 - [56] Originally by: Scimon Tinker Originally by: CCP kieron Removed some of the more inflammatory posts in the thread. While some may not agree with the sentiments presented by the media or personages, there's no need to make assumptions about their private lives. Keep the discussion on topic, please. I wish the BBC had moderators like you then. HE made some assumptions on a persons private life. One of the reasons why i play eve is for an escape from my RL. It is also one of the reasons why i read books, play sports, play the PS3, go to the pub, etc etc. Escapeism is a huge reason for people do do many things and not just play MMOLG's. Unfortunatly people wish to constantly place blame on stuffÖ and rarely take responsibility for anything. I have a 4yr old son who is about to grow up in a world where there is nowhere for him to actually go out and play. Activities for the young and activities for todays youth have been almost eradicated and society has slowy degenerated. As a responsible parent I try to maintain a balance for him with PC and Console games and propper RL activities (Judo) My RL Fitting : Hi slots 1x GF 2x Kids 1x Mortgage Mids 1x Decent well paid Job 1x Shaguar X-Type Lows 1x Addiction to EVE-Online 1x Addiction to my Book collection Nice setup have nearly the same myself, however I found the high slot mods cost a hell of alot to run smoothly " Stay Frosty "
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.15 11:56:00 - [57] Edited by: Andrue on 15/12/2007 11:58:11 Originally by: Soulita Ignorant people like Dr Castronova are part of the reason why I do not watch TV. TV is full of wanna be's who have no idea about most things they report on. Who needs TV anyways? We got the net, dont we? In what way is he ignorant? His comments about most players wanting a human body are backed up by subscription figures. There are several reasons why Eve remains a minority interest MMORPG and its lack of avatars is one of them. As for his "The appeal, he said, is not for those in a good job, but for those working low-paid, low-skill jobs. "Would you rather be a Starbucks worker or a starship captain?" he asked."" it seems a reasonable comment. People play games to escape and an MMORPG is a particularly strong form of escapism. I can't (yet) see narge numbers of people quitting real life in favour of MMORPGs but it could happen. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.12.15 11:57:00 - [58] Edited by: SoftRevolution on 15/12/2007 11:58:54 Originally by: Celeste Coeval Originally by: Crumplecorn It's funny how MMOGs get labelled escapism when their purpose is to create a fictional environment with real people, rather than a purely fictional environment. couldn't agree more Whu...? What if interacting in a setting where you've got a much higher stock of social capital ("epeen") than you do in real life is an escape for you? What if you're a tad dull and ignorable IRL but ingame you serve some useful purpose so people pay attention to you? Or what if you're an "ugmo" (love that word) IRL but ingame you spend lots of time attention whoring around the opposite sex ingame? The presence of other people enhances the escapism potential of these things. It's the different contexts you can interact with them in that counts I think. EVE RELATED CONTENT
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.15 12:03:00 - [59] Originally by: Scimon Tinker Originally by: CCP kieron Removed some of the more inflammatory posts in the thread. While some may not agree with the sentiments presented by the media or personages, there's no need to make assumptions about their private lives. Keep the discussion on topic, please. I wish the BBC had moderators like you then. HE made some assumptions on a persons private life. One day you will understand the difference between making specific comments about specific individuals and making general comments about groups of people. You can get into trouble doing either one but in this case I see nothing offensive in what he wrote. He's just interpreting facts as he sees them and drawing his own conclusions. Thankfully the BBC are allowed considerable freedom and general resist the temptation to edit away opinions. I hope you never apply to them for an editorial position. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Gorthauran Amarr Throne of Tragedy	Posted - 2007.12.15 12:11:00 - [60] Second Life = very creepy experience...Makes ppl that play EVE look very normal.

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