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Draem
The Legion of Spoon
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Posted - 2007.12.15 21:44:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Alex Shurk
Unless you're inside the structure, due to it being dozens of KMs across.
Saw that coming.
But as has been said multiple times, would a side turret be able to rotate to not hit something it is 0m from? By sheer probability, at that distance, almost all of your possible firing positions would hit. Even if it was a few meters, you would have to be trying to miss in order to.
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Veritas Falx
Umbra Congregatio
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.15 21:46:00 -
[32]
RP reason(fake one):
Shooting something at point blank range at any sort of gun on the various sizes would create an explosion that would damage your own ship, so the computer intentially misses to avoid harming itself.
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.12.15 23:31:00 -
[33]
Just the manifestation of a flawed system. Other examples including:
- missing a stationary target while in a perfect orbit
- rotation of ship having no effect on hit chance on a target orbiting you (as per above)
- Battleship sized turrets missing another Battleship that's close enough to blot out the sun (sig. radii are static, when they should vary with ship-to-target range, i.e get larger the closer you get)
and so on... hopefully one day the physics engine will get an overhaul.
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Video - 'War-Machine' |
Ris Dnalor
Minmatar
Union Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.16 08:26:00 -
[34]
if the target is motionless and you are motionless, (pr if you're both motionless in relation to each other) turrets wouldn't have to pivot to track anything. This should at least be corrected for occasions like this.
--
Talking in Circles is more dizzying than walking in them...
Tralala |
Anastasiya Makalov
Minmatar
GIT-R-DUN
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Posted - 2007.12.16 09:00:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Anastasiya Makalov on 16/12/2007 09:05:45
Originally by: Ris Dnalor
if the target is motionless and you are motionless, (pr if you're both motionless in relation to each other) turrets wouldn't have to pivot to track anything. This should at least be corrected for occasions like this.
i'm assuming you are talking about two objects orbiting each other at exact speed in the same direction, such as
..OBJ1......0
Rotation.(....)
..OBJ2......0
assume both obj's are rotating clockwise...in which case they would be motionless to each other...so the guns wouldn't need to track at all. indeed, they would never miss because the gun wouldn't have to move.
if that is what you mean, then yes, i 100% agree with you.
EDIT: my uber text art didn't turn out like i wanted :( sad panda.
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Jones Maloy
Minmatar
Unified Naval Command
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Posted - 2007.12.16 09:05:00 -
[36]
I think it's complete BS when I can't hit a target with a 0 r/sec transversal when I'm orbiting it at 2 km/sec and I can hit a target while doing barrel rolls when it has a 0.1 r/sec transversal.
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Originally by: Kagura Nikon
.......That is why I started an alt to be completely specced in ammar. Because eventually CCP will buff it......
rofl
p.s. I fly Amarr and they blow. |
Jones Maloy
Minmatar
Unified Naval Command
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Posted - 2007.12.16 09:07:00 -
[37]
in the op
when I was shooting at that structure I was completely motionless.
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Originally by: Kagura Nikon
.......That is why I started an alt to be completely specced in ammar. Because eventually CCP will buff it......
rofl
p.s. I fly Amarr and they blow. |
hellsknights
RennTech
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.16 10:41:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Its rather simple, if you're at zero meters, tracking has to be infinite in order to hit =P
Ironic the girl in your sig when to my high school.
True story, but not much of one.
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Saietor Blackgreen
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Posted - 2007.12.16 11:12:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Saietor Blackgreen on 16/12/2007 11:14:11
Edited by: Saietor Blackgreen on 16/12/2007 11:13:05
1) Turrets DO have to track if they are in perfect orbit, because modern advanced turrets are gyrostabilized, and keeep the same absolute vector, not the same angle relative to the ship. Plus, this mechanism is required for gameplay reasons, otherwise nanoships would PWN you all.
2) There are SOME issues with inability to hit at 0 range. It happens with structures that have their physical (collision) radius less than signature radius - in this case you can orbit or stay within sig radius of your target. I cannot say for sure, but I've never seen that happen with ships. Even if it can happen, it only happens for very small time.
3) One can imagine another section added to tracking formula, that increases chance to hit when distance to target becomes comparable to it's size - small ship orbiting a 5 km diameter structure cannot POSSSIBLY miss it when orbiting at 800 m. But is that really necessary? Does current way of calculation really impares gameplay?
Get it over with guys.
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Fenren
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Posted - 2007.12.16 12:23:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Fenren on 16/12/2007 12:23:45
as said erlier just ad +1m in the formula for the distance, it wont matter at all in any situation except when aproaching 0 and avoiding the div0
that wont ad much calculations
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.12.16 13:43:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Saietor Blackgreen
Edited by: Saietor Blackgreen on 16/12/2007 11:14:11
Edited by: Saietor Blackgreen on 16/12/2007 11:13:05
1) Turrets DO have to track if they are in perfect orbit, because modern advanced turrets are gyrostabilized, and keeep the same absolute vector, not the same angle relative to the ship. Plus, this mechanism is required for gameplay reasons, otherwise nanoships would PWN you all.
2) There are SOME issues with inability to hit at 0 range. It happens with structures that have their physical (collision) radius less than signature radius - in this case you can orbit or stay within sig radius of your target. I cannot say for sure, but I've never seen that happen with ships. Even if it can happen, it only happens for very small time.
3) One can imagine another section added to tracking formula, that increases chance to hit when distance to target becomes comparable to it's size - small ship orbiting a 5 km diameter structure cannot POSSSIBLY miss it when orbiting at 800 m. But is that really necessary? Does current way of calculation really impares gameplay?
Get it over with guys.
1) Except if turret tracking was fixed so as it was based upon a ship and not an arbitrary point in space (I assume that's how it's done at the moment), then rotating the ship would work tooà. match your rotation to nano-ships orbit and *boom* (unless they 'jink' rather then *click*-> orbit at, in which case it gets interestingà)
2) It does happen with ships, quite annoying, and a bit ægheyÆ to use it.
3) It does affect gameplay, webs are mandatory for close range ships due to the tracking issues (blasters have horrible tracking for their optimal range for instance), mandatory webs mean mandatory MWD's, mandatory MWD's... yeah you see where this is going...
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Video - 'War-Machine' |
Eamiela
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Posted - 2007.12.16 13:45:00 -
[42]
Ermmmm, perhaps a silly suggestion but instead of whining, how about you maneuver your ship & don't let a non-turret based ship get to within 0m???
Tactics FTW??
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Xerpex
Ars ex Discordia
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Posted - 2007.12.16 16:38:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Veritas Falx
More code=slower. Honestly for things like that I see some sort of abuse coming of that. If you make it something large then BS will have to be added and then you have lots of problems.
 It's doing one addition. It has no measurable performance effect.
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Kulmid
New Justice
Minuit.
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Posted - 2007.12.16 17:04:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Suboran
Edited by: Suboran on 15/12/2007 17:07:51
if you have 0 distance to a punchbag, how can u punch it without drawing back?
if you press a gun barrel up to something. Why pull back and shoot, when you can just pull the trigger and hit 100% of the time.
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Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2007.12.16 17:15:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Kulmid
Originally by: Suboran
Edited by: Suboran on 15/12/2007 17:07:51
if you have 0 distance to a punchbag, how can u punch it without drawing back?
if you press a gun barrel up to something. Why pull back and shoot, when you can just pull the trigger and hit 100% of the time.
Now imagine if you were wrestling with the guy and you had your gun a good 50cm behind him, like you do in the case with the ships...
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
Sarah Aubry
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.12.16 17:23:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Pottsey
Why not give turrets a flat out 9.9999 tracking bonus when at 0km next to large objects? It always felt odd that I had to back away from a giant structure that I couldnÆt possibly miss, just to hit it.
qft
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.12.16 17:43:00 -
[47]
ôNow imagine if you were wrestling with the guy and you had your gun a good 50cm behind him, like you do in the case with the ships...ö
How is a point blank very large object more then x2 bigger then your ship thatÆs also stationery the same as a guy wrestling with the gun 50cm away?
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2007.12.16 17:59:00 -
[48]
What about a frigate hugging the hull of a battleship?
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
Weeka
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2007.12.16 18:04:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Laboratus
What about a frigate hugging the hull of a battleship?
Won't that bounce off at 0m distance?
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Hans Angry
Caldari
Pyrrhus Sicarii
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.12.16 18:04:00 -
[50]
honestly guys, come on, its 1 damn meter... shut up about it and move the 1 meter in distance, and leave it alone, its not hard, just double click, or stop your ship before it hits the target
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Anastasiya Makalov
Minmatar
GIT-R-DUN
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Posted - 2007.12.17 04:59:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Saietor Blackgreen
Edited by: Saietor Blackgreen on 16/12/2007 11:14:11
2) There are SOME issues with inability to hit at 0 range. It happens with structures that have their physical (collision) radius less than signature radius - in this case you can orbit or stay within sig radius of your target. I cannot say for sure, but I've never seen that happen with ships. Even if it can happen, it only happens for very small time.
you can see that bug easily, mount a nosferatu and hit a structure with it while at 0m...the animation will extend beyond your ship rather than end at it.
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Arthur Frayn
Veterans Of Liberation Ltd.
THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.17 05:08:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 17/12/2007 05:09:43
Originally by: Laboratus
Just take your calculator and divide any number by zero.
You will see what the problem is...
Chuck Norris can divide by zero.
therefore in Eve, Chuck Norris can hit objects at 0m.
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Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes. |
Xerpex
Ars ex Discordia
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Posted - 2007.12.17 13:37:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 17/12/2007 05:09:43
Originally by: Laboratus
Just take your calculator and divide any number by zero.
You will see what the problem is...
Chuck Norris can divide by zero.
therefore in Eve, Chuck Norris can hit objects at 0m.
Chuck Norris doesn't need to hit objects.
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Saietor Blackgreen
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Posted - 2007.12.17 15:32:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Anastasiya Makalov
you can see that bug easily, mount a nosferatu and hit a structure with it while at 0m...the animation will extend beyond your ship rather than end at it.
And how does that impares gameplay? Click "stay at 100 m" instead of "approach" - whats hard in that?
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Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2007.12.17 15:44:00 -
[55]
I don't care how the code works. When your at point blank range and your target isn't moving, you shouldn't miss it.
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