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Garat Mant Minmatar Moons of Pluto	Posted - 2007.12.15 18:43:00 - [1] OK so the Caldari Kitsune electronic attack frigate is looking pretty cool to me. However I'm not an ewar expert despite going over the excellent guide on the forums. So, with the Kit's 2 low and 5 medium slots, what should I be aiming for? Max out the signal distortion amps in the lows, then put an AB (for cap life), sensor booster and 3 ECMs in the mids? My assumption is that I won't know what the heck I'm up against and that I'll orbit as far away as possible to stay alive. That said: Signal Distortion Amplifier II Signal Distortion Amplifier II ECM - White Noise Generator II ECM - Ion Field Generator II ECM - Phase Inverter II Sensor Booster II with range script 1MN MWD or AB II Highs would be rocket launcher IIs with defender missiles primarily. Advice from season e-warriors? -G -- CEO, Moons Of Pluto industrial corporation. Recruiting mature players!
Eternal Light Caldari Global Solutions Tears of Themis	Posted - 2007.12.15 18:59:00 - [2] my actual setup : 2x rocket II, 1x improved cloacking II (just for surprise) 1x 1mn mwd II, 4x racial ecm (better named) 2x 'hypnos' signal distorsion 2x rigs range lock (forget the name) -------------------------------------------- From The Darkness Comes The Light --------------------------------------------
Waxau The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.15 19:06:00 - [3] Firstly - Please search for other threads. Ive made one on the Kitsune, aswell as about 4 or 5 people after. Its not hard to not spam the forums. Secondly - Caldari, Gallente, and Minnie jammers. Amarr are the least common ships, thus can do with less ECM. In this case, none. Lastly, defender missiles arent really that useful - Although it technically would work. And i wouldnt bother with BOTH mwd and sensor booster. Either fit lock range rigs and drop the sensor booster, or dont bother with it. I use 4 multis and an mwd for example.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.15 20:09:00 - [4] mwd + 4 T2 multis 2 T2 SDA's 2 ionic field rigs at lvl4 you get 70~km optimal range out of your multispecs, and your kitsune, with long range targeting + 2 ionic field rigs get arrround 74km max targeting range. --- planetary interaction idea!
Mikal Drey Angels and Demons	Posted - 2007.12.15 20:18:00 - [5] hey hey Firstly i dont fly anything other than matari so forgive my ignorance on this ship. 4x Multis ? 1. doesnt that gimp your cap like crazy 2. 4x Racial > 4x multi or the ability to ECM any 4x ships is worth the multis 3. kitsunes overpowered much :/ I played around on SISI pre Trinity and having a kitsune permajamming me from 50km was crazy. I think having an ECM specialist ship is actually a good thing and personally im happy to accept a kitsune as having the ability to permajam me so this isnt a direct cry about ECM and stuffÖ just an enquiry into Multis Vs Racials
Waxau The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.15 20:51:00 - [6] Originally by: Mikal Drey hey hey Firstly i dont fly anything other than matari so forgive my ignorance on this ship. 4x Multis ? 1. doesnt that gimp your cap like crazy 2. 4x Racial > 4x multi or the ability to ECM any 4x ships is worth the multis 3. kitsunes overpowered much :/ I played around on SISI pre Trinity and having a kitsune permajamming me from 50km was crazy. I think having an ECM specialist ship is actually a good thing and personally im happy to accept a kitsune as having the ability to permajam me so this isnt a direct cry about ECM and stuffÖ just an enquiry into Multis Vs Racials The that you asked those questions, shows you havent ever used ECM - Which is fair enough. But dont start calling it overpowered, until you've been to the other side. It firstly has only 5 highs. 0.0 gangs need an mwd for gate camps and the like so thats 1 slot down. That leaves a possible 4 jammers. Yes, racials are better at jamming and range. But as you can see, the bonus to the kitsune is range, and it still has a short lock range. As such, you either lose another mid, for a sensor booster - Or you fit lock range rigs. Even then, that means that you have to fight a gang of 4 targets, 1 amarr, 1 caldari, 1 gallente, and 1 minmatar to be fully effective. And if you're fighting a gang of that size, that usually means you'll be primaried before you've been effective at all. Multis are used, for the simple fact that it makes life easier. 4 multi's on one ship will near enough permajam it. But the downside is, thats 4 jammers. So no its not overpowered. Plus a fully setup one, costs around 60 mil isk. So yeah - Nice try, but the other EAS are more out of line imo (and not even they need a nerf). As for the capacitor...no they dont gimp the cap. ECM now use less cap since trinity, and a bonus of the kitsune is cap size. So generally speaking, only spec'd chars can actually make the ship worthwhile.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.15 21:04:00 - [7] Originally by: Mikal Drey hey hey Firstly i dont fly anything other than matari so forgive my ignorance on this ship. 4x Multis ? 1. doesnt that gimp your cap like crazy 2. 4x Racial > 4x multi or the ability to ECM any 4x ships is worth the multis 3. kitsunes overpowered much :/ I played around on SISI pre Trinity and having a kitsune permajamming me from 50km was crazy. I think having an ECM specialist ship is actually a good thing and personally im happy to accept a kitsune as having the ability to permajam me so this isnt a direct cry about ECM and stuffÖ just an enquiry into Multis Vs Racials considering locking range and the stretch of things you must do to this ship to fully use it's bonuses, multispecs + either T2 signal amps or ionic field rigs is the only way. sure you could slap racials there, but considering the fact that racials in a kitsune have an optimal of over 100km and you need 2 T2 sensor boosters with range scripts just to lock at that range, and you need the obligatory mwd, specially that you're in a frig, you end up with only 2 medslots in the end. also cap is not gimped like crazy, since the good ECM pilot will cycle-jam and not F1-F4, even considering that the ship, with EAS4 can get cap-drained with mwd+4multis permanently running. so in sum, while you can get strengths over 12pts with racials in the kitsune, you're practically wasting a bonus like that, thus multispecs > racials in the ship. it also gives more leeway in the fights since you don't have to pick targets to jam them. --- planetary interaction idea!
Mikal Drey Angels and Demons	Posted - 2007.12.15 21:26:00 - [8] Edited by: Mikal Drey on 15/12/2007 21:28:51 Edited by: Mikal Drey on 15/12/2007 21:26:41 Originally by: Waxau That you asked those questions, shows you havent ever used ECM - Which is fair enough. But dont start calling it overpowered, until you've been to the other side. Ive used ECM but im not an ECM pilot. ECM has undergone many changes and i prefer having role specific ECM ships even though i hate being permajammed What did trinity change to ECM's that made multis not suck cap like they normally do ? Again im sure i made my disclaimer clear and mostly needed to clarify the Multi Thing. "overpowered" is just a forum word for the ignorant folk like me when they dont fully understand stuffÖ :) Thanks for the replies, Minmatar Forever Mikal Drey edit Iskies for 2 unflamed replies, cause its christmas and im full of whine* *a nice Chardonay
Selene Le'Cotiere Amarr I-Omniscient-I	Posted - 2007.12.15 21:35:00 - [9] Originally by: Mikal Drey What did trinity change to ECM's that made multis not suck cap like they normally do ? The capacitor need of ECM modules has been reduced by 40%. _________ "You will be a drone in the hive of an insane Queen, existing solely to provide the ship with needs, links in a chain too complicated for you to understand." - Story: Hands of a Killer
Waxau The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.15 21:55:00 - [10] Originally by: Mikal Drey Edited by: Mikal Drey on 15/12/2007 21:28:51 Edited by: Mikal Drey on 15/12/2007 21:26:41 Originally by: Waxau That you asked those questions, shows you havent ever used ECM - Which is fair enough. But dont start calling it overpowered, until you've been to the other side. Ive used ECM but im not an ECM pilot. ECM has undergone many changes and i prefer having role specific ECM ships even though i hate being permajammed What did trinity change to ECM's that made multis not suck cap like they normally do ? Again im sure i made my disclaimer clear and mostly needed to clarify the Multi Thing. "overpowered" is just a forum word for the ignorant folk like me when they dont fully understand stuffÖ :) Thanks for the replies, Minmatar Forever Mikal Drey edit Iskies for 2 unflamed replies, cause its christmas and im full of whine* *a nice Chardonay Quite simply, the cap usage of ECM was dropped considerably. Not only that, but as i stated before, with the Kitsune's bonuses, it gets more cap, and thus has a better peak recharge. Plus with skills of spec'd ECM pilots, theyre not cumbersome at all in all honesty. As for the overpowered bit. Lol fair enough. If you're a really really old ecm pilot, you'll remember the days of it being NON-chance based. However, due to previous whines ^^ its now not. As such, if you have an ecm strength of 8 (which i have on my kitsune) you have about 55% chance to jam a vaga, with a strength of 14. However, each ECM ship has advantages and disadvantages. Firstly (as will all ecm ships near enough) all their bonuses are to ECM. A falcon for example, has bonuses to ECM only....but the arazu has damps AND scramble range. This is our first disadvantage (and advantage). It means that we're unable to do anything else, bar from jam. It does however, mean we're exceptionally good at it. Which is where you get the permajamming from. Next disadvantage is the survivability of our ships. If you ever see a scorp, you know as well as i do, that its insta-primary, with 0 dps near enough. As with a falcon, if it ever uncloaks. Kitsune is the same. However, the difference is the following. Falcon can lock at 150km. Scorp can lock at 150km. Kitsune can lock at 50km. As such, its in range of every ship give or take. So in short - Yes, we're very powerful with ECM. However, despite that, we still have huge disadvantages that keep us balanced.
Foulis Minmatar Spartan Industrial Manufacturing SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.15 22:13:00 - [11] The kitsunes only flaw is that it has the tank of a wet paper bag. ---- Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari NO WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE ARE SPELLED WITH THE NUMBER "8" IN THEM GODDAMNIT!
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.15 22:20:00 - [12] Edited by: Grimpak on 15/12/2007 22:19:49 Originally by: Foulis The kitsunes only flaw is that it has the tank of a wet paper bag. like all the other EAS? heck, like all the other ECM ships? --- planetary interaction idea!
Garat Mant Minmatar Moons of Pluto	Posted - 2007.12.15 23:00:00 - [13] Here's the other Kitsune threads, sorry about that Waxau: Kitsune- a first (PVP) impression [Trinity] Kitsune Setups When is Kitsune better than Blackbird? Kitsune Setup -- CEO, Moons Of Pluto industrial corporation. Recruiting mature players!
Foulis Minmatar Spartan Industrial Manufacturing SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.15 23:07:00 - [14] Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 15/12/2007 22:19:49 Originally by: Foulis The kitsunes only flaw is that it has the tank of a wet paper bag. like all the other EAS? heck, like all the other ECM ships? Easy there boy, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. The kitsune is in my opinion a well balanced ship. It can get a nice turn of speed off a MWD and can jam effectively. It has no DPS and if you even think at it hard enough it'll pop but if it didn't it would be far too powerfull. ---- Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari NO WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE ARE SPELLED WITH THE NUMBER "8" IN THEM GODDAMNIT!
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.15 23:10:00 - [15] Originally by: Foulis Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 15/12/2007 22:19:49 Originally by: Foulis The kitsunes only flaw is that it has the tank of a wet paper bag. like all the other EAS? heck, like all the other ECM ships? Easy there boy, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. The kitsune is in my opinion a well balanced ship. It can get a nice turn of speed off a MWD and can jam effectively. It has no DPS and if you even think at it hard enough it'll pop but if it didn't it would be far too powerfull. don't take my reply as a flame please altho it was a bit rough, it wasn't meant to be a flame --- planetary interaction idea!
Waxau The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.15 23:51:00 - [16] Lol i love this thread Its like we're all the most polite players in eve. Tell ya what! All round mine for tea and scones after DT tomorrow! However, back on topic, Thanks for links Garat. Went to the pub, so didnt have time to link them for ya :). Tbh, the other benefit of less threads, is more ideas on one single location. But atleast all these have been linked in one way or another, so its not too hard :D Also - Grimpak was pointing out that all EAS have zero tank. Much like recon ships (but to a lesser extent) their 'tank' relies in their ability to neutralise the enemy offensive capabilities. Whether its the Arazu, damping to less than its scramble range, or the falcon removing any form of locking. Or the Rapier webbing out of other web ranges, or the pilgrims tracking disrupting. If you do tank an EAS, it would be like tanking a ceptor. You're removing its role benefits, and as such, gimping your own ship. For general knowledge tho, the griffin is a very effective training frig for those wishing not to spend 20 mil on a Kitsune (for those reading this, and wanting to fly one)
Foulis Minmatar Spartan Industrial Manufacturing SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.16 01:17:00 - [17] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Foulis Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 15/12/2007 22:19:49 Originally by: Foulis The kitsunes only flaw is that it has the tank of a wet paper bag. like all the other EAS? heck, like all the other ECM ships? Easy there boy, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. The kitsune is in my opinion a well balanced ship. It can get a nice turn of speed off a MWD and can jam effectively. It has no DPS and if you even think at it hard enough it'll pop but if it didn't it would be far too powerfull. don't take my reply as a flame please altho it was a bit rough, it wasn't meant to be a flame I thought you were angry at me =P You almost made me cry. Seriously though, I've been running this: 2x RL (best I can fit ATM, don't wanna run a cloak), 1x 75mm w/ Spike 1x MWD II, 4x Racials (2x Min, 1x Gall, 1x Caldari) 2x Ewar Mod 2x ECM strength Rig It works nicely, great for screwing with HACs and Inties (I run into alot of crows and vagas). ---- Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari NO WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE ARE SPELLED WITH THE NUMBER "8" IN THEM GODDAMNIT!
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.16 09:32:00 - [18] Originally by: Foulis Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Foulis Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 15/12/2007 22:19:49 Originally by: Foulis The kitsunes only flaw is that it has the tank of a wet paper bag. like all the other EAS? heck, like all the other ECM ships? Easy there boy, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. The kitsune is in my opinion a well balanced ship. It can get a nice turn of speed off a MWD and can jam effectively. It has no DPS and if you even think at it hard enough it'll pop but if it didn't it would be far too powerfull. don't take my reply as a flame please altho it was a bit rough, it wasn't meant to be a flame I thought you were angry at me =P You almost made me cry. Seriously though, I've been running this: 2x RL (best I can fit ATM, don't wanna run a cloak), 1x 75mm w/ Spike 1x MWD II, 4x Racials (2x Min, 1x Gall, 1x Caldari) 2x Ewar Mod 2x ECM strength Rig It works nicely, great for screwing with HACs and Inties (I run into alot of crows and vagas). but then again, you're wasting the range bonus of the ship. not saying that having 12 str racials is not good but, if you can jam up to over 100km with EAS lvl4, but you are only restricted to 52.5km due to the maximum targeting range of the ship, why fitting them? --- planetary interaction idea!
Garat Mant Minmatar Moons of Pluto	Posted - 2007.12.21 18:08:00 - [19] Apologies for the semi necro but I wanted to ask another question: How long does the capacitor last in combat? (assuming 4 or 5 in the cap skills) Thanks -G -- CEO, Moons Of Pluto industrial corporation. Recruiting mature players!
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.21 18:55:00 - [20] Originally by: Garat Mant Apologies for the semi necro but I wanted to ask another question: How long does the capacitor last in combat? (assuming 4 or 5 in the cap skills) Thanks -G depends. you can run the mwd permanently with EAS 4 and cap skills at 5. over 5 minutes with a single multispec and said mwd running permanently, so in normal combat situations, if you're lucky, 3-4 minutes, if not, 1 minute. Also, mwd off you can run 3 multis permanently. just sit at 65km away (safe from drones) and support the rest of the gang with your jammers. --- planetary interaction idea!

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