Originally by: Wu Jiun

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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and better tracking than a Barrage Vagabond.

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Heavy Pulse with scorch: 0.07617
220mm Vulcan with barrage: 0.11016

I didn't bother to compute this myself but rather just put it
into eft(assuming maxed skills, no imps). However what i am really trying to say is: you are wrong. Or did you really mean focused medium pulses and redo all your damage calcs?

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Originally by: Wu Jiun

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Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: Wu Jiun

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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and better tracking than a Barrage Vagabond.

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Heavy Pulse with scorch: 0.07617
220mm Vulcan with barrage: 0.11016

calcs?

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ehh.. use equally ranked guns.

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ehhh.... NO?
She was comparing HP Scorch Zealot with 220 Barrage AC's and said the tracking was better. So why would I correct her on something she didn't even say?

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Is there a T1 Amarr cruiser that has the feel of the Zealot (similar to how the Stabber/Fleet Stabber 'feels' like a Vagabond)?

-Liang

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: Wu Jiun

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Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: Wu Jiun

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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and better tracking than a Barrage Vagabond.

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Heavy Pulse with scorch: 0.07617
220mm Vulcan with barrage: 0.11016

calcs?

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ehh.. use equally ranked guns.

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ehhh.... NO?
She was comparing HP Scorch Zealot with 220 Barrage AC's and said the tracking was better. So why would I correct her on something she didn't even say?

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because the comparative gun to 220 AC's is focussed med pulse. if you want to compare the HPL to an AC gun the one you must use is the 425 AC.
but that doesn't matter, because the AC's actually have better tracking.

however it has to be said that pulses have better optimal, so in the end it balances out.

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The DPS comparisons were made with HP vs 220s. Would you like to see the dps comparison between FMP and 220s? Unlike minmatar, Amarr is not blessed with gun downgrades that reduce range by 1% and dps by 3% while reducing grid/cpu cost by 30%.

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Originally by: Danari

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Originally by: Grimpak

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ehh.. use equally ranked guns.

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Fail. You use the appropriate guns for each fit. This isn't a theoretical lasers v. projectiles comparison, it's a real-world fit vs. real-world fit, where a top tier gun may be pointless to consider if nobody would give enough fitting space to mount them.

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Originally by: Wu Jiun

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Originally by: Grimpak

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because the comparative gun to 220 AC's is focussed med pulse. if you want to compare the HPL to an AC gun the one you must use is the 425 AC.

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Man, are you somewhat dense or what? She compared two actual ship fittings. The zealot with HP's and the damn vaga with 220mm AC's. And then she said tracking was better which it is not. So to show that she is wrong i naturally had to compare hps with 220mm. Thats easy for everyone who trained reading comprehension beyond level 0.

425 wouldn't even fit on the vaga as it was fitted. Do you even fly either Zealot OR Vaga? Apparently not...

Apart from that the focused medium pulse is the equivalent of the dual180. So learn your facts first. And in that case why keep the damage calcs as they were (comparing again 220 to HP )?

Now go troll someone elses posts you amateur.

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Originally by: Grimpak

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I didn't meant DPS per DPS
I didn't meant fittings for fittings.
I meant gun tier per gun tier and their tracking values.

I KNOW that I can't shoehorn 425's in my vaga
I KNOW that DPS WISE the FMP is more like the D180

so, TIER WISE, the HPL and 425 are equal (not DPS nor fittings), and I compared their tracking values according to that.

I do take the fact that the FMP is more equal to the D180 than the 220. In there I admit my mistake.

but it also means that amarr are lacking a mid-tier short range gun

either way, if we compare lasers, projectiles and hybrids in a tier-per-tier fashion, my opinion that lasers are lacking in options comes to bear.

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BTW Grimpak, I had chosen not to address your post previously, but where the hell do you get off insisting that I try to shoehorn 425's onto a Vagabond FFS? I don't care about that.

I'm not interested in some number crunching comparing HP to 425's. I cared about how the ship would perform given reasonable fits.

Again: Stop derailing the thread with this HP/425 nonsense. I don't care about 425's vs HP's. I care about Zealots and Vagabonds with reasonable fits and performance in extended hostile territory encounters.

-Liang

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Originally by: Ivan En'Vec

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The Zealot isn't any worse than the vaga, it just has an entirely different role. I choose to use mine for solo PvP where I know my surroundings, or in roaming gangs. I don't try to scout solo into 0.0 where camps can bust it up. I don't try to nanofit it and turn it into a clone of the vagabond, and in return I have ridiculous tank that no vagabond can get close to breaking, while putting out the DPS to break theirs.

High slots:
4X Dual Heavy Pulse II (w/radio, xray, or multifrequency amarr navy)

Med:
10mn AB II
JS Prototype Scram
Med. Cap Booster II (w/800s)

Low:
2X MAR II
2X ENAM II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
DC II
HS II

With HAC 5, Med. pulse spec 5, and surgical strike 5, this puts out alot more damage than you might think. Zealot's a fine ship.

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: Ivan En'Vec

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The Zealot isn't any worse than the vaga, it just has an entirely different role. I choose to use mine for solo PvP where I know my surroundings, or in roaming gangs. I don't try to scout solo into 0.0 where camps can bust it up. I don't try to nanofit it and turn it into a clone of the vagabond, and in return I have ridiculous tank that no vagabond can get close to breaking, while putting out the DPS to break theirs.

High slots:
4X Dual Heavy Pulse II (w/radio, xray, or multifrequency amarr navy)

Med:
10mn AB II
JS Prototype Scram
Med. Cap Booster II (w/800s)

Low:
2X MAR II
2X ENAM II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
DC II
HS II

With HAC 5, Med. pulse spec 5, and surgical strike 5, this puts out alot more damage than you might think. Zealot's a fine ship.

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spot the typo

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DHP = Battleship weapon. ;-)

-Liang

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Originally by: Hans Angry

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Edited by: Hans Angry on 19/12/2007 06:09:34

Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Originally by: Hans Angry

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or im a skilled pvper, who actually knows what he is doing, trying to give a noob a hint on how to save money, and skill training. do what you wish, once you die send me an eve mail explaining how ignorant you were, if you want too ill take your nano zealot on 1 vs 1.

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You can't be all that skilled if all you want to do is go 5km/sec and see if there's a wandering frigate you can gank...

-Liang

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heh, my vaga goes 5,700 m/s while outputting over 420 dps
http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vagagq3.jpg

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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If anyone cares:

Just for the final resolution of this, Hans Angry evemailed me: "old mans star".

I declined and requested a 1v1 via mutual can aggression in high sec. He refused the 1v1.

-Liang

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Edited by: Liang Nuren on 22/12/2007 00:53:14

Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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If anyone cares:

Just for the final resolution of this, Hans Angry evemailed me: "old mans star".

I declined and requested a 1v1 via mutual can aggression in high sec. He refused the 1v1.

-Liang

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the problem is: can he enter hi-sec? The Church is not famous for having pilots with positive sec status

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Yes, his sec status is 0.2. ;-)

-Liang

Ed: And yes, I think he's going to come flaming onto the Eve-O forums so that he can defend his honor (and thus, I goad him into accepting a 1v1 in his Absolution).

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