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To those who sell marauders at ~ 0 profit just to sell quickly.

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Vadimik	Posted - 2007.12.16 10:43:00 - [1] Congratulation ! You are feeding the very beast that caused the prices to crash. In short-term, getting your isk back from a no-demand investment may seem like a good idea. But in long-term, you are pretty much insuring that any future attempt at profitable invention of high-price items are doomed to follow this path.
Vadimik	Posted - 2007.12.16 18:36:00 - [2] Edited by: Vadimik on 16/12/2007 18:40:57 FYI: I'm not whining about any loss. I'm still at profit, to be honest, just not a high as I thought. Plus, I'll obviously have to cancel (or, at least, cut bigtime) my future marauder production plans. All I want is to try and prevent at least a couple of "inventors" from repeating the same stupid mistake, namely: selling their stock dirt cheap in the middle of ongoing market crash. If you want to make money in invention, learn to sacrifice quick sales for the wellfare of the market. Else every time you try to invent, you'll end up deep in the same **it.
Vadimik	Posted - 2007.12.16 19:02:00 - [3] Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Vadimik If you want to make money in invention, learn to sacrifice quick sales for the wellfare of the market. Yeah, if you want to do well in invention sacrifice your own sales so that Vaidimik can unload his stuff at a decent price. Anyone who cares more about a particular invention market than their own financial wellbeing is a moron. Not selling off your items as you watch them crash lower and lower just so you are not contributing to the crash is pure stupidity. No one else is going to stop unloading their stuff because you do. sigh It's ironic, in fact. If you don't want to believe me, fine, do whatever you deem fit. Just don't act all suprised when it turns out I managed to sell my stuff with a much higher profit margin by using the magical virtue of patience.
Vadimik	Posted - 2007.12.16 19:18:00 - [4] Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd Originally by: Akita T I'm not quite sure what you mean by "0 profit". If it's an inventor who just can't sell his blueprint at all since nobody seems to be buying, there is profit to be had in manufacturing and selling at close to no markup. If somebody bought a decent ME blueprint cheap from a clueless inventor, he might be manufacturing it cheaper as you think, so he still makes a profit. Of course, it's safer to assume nowadays that people are stupid and sell for no markup, but you never know... some people might just be smarter as you expect them to be, profiteering on the backs of the others that are stupid. If you think people are selling for 0 profit, well, you know what to do, don't you ? Buy their stock and relist as whatever markup you deem appropriate. That was ALWAYS the way to deal with "minerals I reprocess from ore I mine are free" people. I fail to see why this shouldn't apply in here too. exactly. what akita said. It's simple. I don't have free isk to buyout even three "0-profit" marauders, let alone all of them.
Vadimik	Posted - 2007.12.16 20:10:00 - [5] Edited by: Vadimik on 16/12/2007 20:11:45 Originally by: Shadarle Edited by: Shadarle on 16/12/2007 19:50:18 Originally by: Vadimik sigh It's ironic, in fact. Not quite sure how it is ironic, perhaps that isn't the word you wanted? Originally by: Vadimik If you don't want to believe me, fine, do whatever you deem fit. Just don't act all suprised when it turns out I managed to sell my stuff with a much higher profit margin by using the magical virtue of patience. Perhaps you mistakenly think profit margin is the most important thing to strive for when trading. I'll ask you this, Which is better: Selling at a 5% loss instantly Selling at 2% loss after 2 weeks Selling at a 0% loss after a month Selling at a 5% gain after 2 months I personally would take the 5% loss instantly so I could get out of the failed market and reinvest my money elsewhere. If you want to to hold 1 billion isk worth of items for an entire month to make 5% then thats your call. But it is probably why you don't have the isk to buy up the marauders that are under cost and I do, only I'm wise enough not to as the prices are going to keep going down. It's ironic in that my attempt at a more stable market for everyone is seen as an attempt for a high price for my own sale only. 5% loss now is better, no doubt. If it's a stand-alone sale. Except... It's not the last time you sell something. And unless we learn to control invention market, we will keep ending up with tiny profits every time a new FOTM invention based item (with possibly good profits) appears.
Vadimik	Posted - 2007.12.16 20:31:00 - [6] Originally by: Benvie Originally by: Vadimik we will keep ending up with tiny profits every time a new FOTM invention based item (with possibly good profits) appears. Exactly. It amazing me how much people will whine and moan about the force of gravity. That's the way it is, nothing you say will change it. Your writing only serves to exercise your finger muscles. Before invention producers managed to do just that - prevent prices from crashing. And that's exactly what happens in countless markets irl - companies cut their own sales to prevent market from crashing.
Vadimik	Posted - 2007.12.16 21:31:00 - [7] Originally by: Algorithm 5 Originally by: Vadimik It's ironic in that my attempt at a more stable market for everyone is seen as an attempt for a high price for my own sale only. 5% loss now is better, no doubt. If it's a stand-alone sale. Except... It's not the last time you sell something. And unless we learn to control invention market, we will keep ending up with tiny profits every time a new FOTM invention based item (with possibly good profits) appears. Since you can't produce Marauders profitably, it's obvious you should leave that market. You leaving the market will help the invention market control itself. I think it's obvious that just asking everyone to leave is not going to work. Not to lower prices blindly in hopes of quick sales is another thing. And that's what I do - I do not lower my prices below some line.
Vadimik	Posted - 2007.12.16 22:07:00 - [8] FYI: Just sold a Kronos at 1 B. Jita price = 789m. That is all.
Vadimik	Posted - 2007.12.16 22:13:00 - [9] Originally by: Mai Mailynn Edited by: Mai Mailynn on 16/12/2007 22:09:51 I have 3 spare Vargurs now. All are being listed at 1 bil, and not going any lower. I don't need the capital they represent, I have another 8 billion in liquid funds atm. They're staying on the market at 1 bil till they sell, or I blow up the one I'm using and need another. :P That said, even insanely rich people would have to be foolish to look at this market and decide it'd be a good idea to buy up the 0 profit marauders and relist them at a more appropriate price. There's way too many with far too little demand, it would take ages to sell them all even if the rest of eve stopped building them entirely. :P
Vadimik	Posted - 2007.12.16 22:24:00 - [10] Originally by: Shadarle Heh. The only difference is in your head. If you think each inventable item is going to follow this same trend then don't invent in the future. You leaving the field will help everyone else who decides to stay in. You can help the market by taking your own advice. You can also help the rest of us by not trying to help us with advice that would really help you more than us. You are free to follow my advice not. You are free to read my posts not. You are free to disagree totally with anything I say. You can even try and give your own advice. But one think you can't do is prevent me from posting my advice. And so I post. And once gain, I do invent and I get my profits. High profits. So my aim is more stable market for everyone, not profits for only greedy me, since I have them anyways.

Vadimik	Posted - 2007.12.17 05:45:00 - [11] Originally by: Tauralathan I'm curious as to what numbers you are using to get 0% profit or even losses at 800 million per Kronos? 1) Check contracts and behold some marauders that are about to sell (or have already been sold) on auctions for about 650-750m. 2) T2 components prices make it just as viable to sell them without building the marauder itself, so it's "~0 profit" above the level of T2 components. (at ME - 3, T2 comps would sell for 550m, add 85m for mega and 150 for BPC run, and you get 785m)
Vadimik	Posted - 2007.12.17 08:58:00 - [12] Originally by: ishkabibble Marauders are far from cost effective options for mission runners Marauders are new ships the community needs to figure out how they fly Their will never be a market for marauders because you can buy a faction ship at a lower price and less skill intensive All you marauders T2 BS inventors and builders should stop crying that you lost isk, next time do your homework. Just because you know how to invent and build doesnt mean you know how to sell. Marketing is a concept most of EvE has yet to understand What part of "I sell and make high profits" is hard to understand ? Have you even bothered to read the thread before posting ? It's not about no-demand (demand is there ok, even if you don't want to believe it), it's about producers that crash their own market for momentary gains.
Vadimik	Posted - 2007.12.17 18:23:00 - [13] Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Vadimik It's not about no-demand (demand is there ok, even if you don't want to believe it), it's about producers that crash their own market for momentary gains. It seems to be more about you whining that you can't compete with other people at the prices they are willing to charge. Since facts failed to persuade you in the opposite, I can only humbly hope that your delusions are harmless for the rest of us.

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