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Ulstan	Posted - 2007.12.17 23:03:00 - [61] I'm not sure about all the implications, but it's nice to see people seriously considering how no one uses AB's and MWD's are a "must have". I think this (which is related to all the nano nonsense) is the current biggest flaw in the EVE combat system. Bear in mind that warp bubbles are an integral part of this problem as well. People fit MWD's because without them they die to the first bubble. Obviously just taking out MWD's wouldn't really make the situation any better, but MWD's being 'must haves' and AB's being a 'dont' bother' is an indication something is badly wrong.
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2007.12.17 23:07:00 - [62] Originally by: Goumindong maybe something a little more complicated, such as this, instead. Just wanted to pimp Goum's idea again... it's the best I've seen so far.
Knoppaz Rens Nursing Home	Posted - 2007.12.17 23:08:00 - [63] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn Originally by: Knoppaz Yes, I did think about it. Maybe not all aspects, but that what this forum is for.. discussion, right? So why exactly is it stupid or what part is stupid from your point of view. Just saying it's stupid means nothing. Maybe I see your point if you feel like telling me.. warp scramming a blaster boat should not keep it at range...its kinda silly. No need for a web anymore, just the warp scrams. You should reread my post. I never said a scrammer should stop an MWD-boat.. ;)
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.18 00:36:00 - [64] Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 18/12/2007 00:36:39 Originally by: 6Bagheera9 Originally by: Knoppaz Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Jonny JoJo i have to say, having a scram changed so that it disables MWD sounds like the best idea, rather than all these complecated mass crap stuff 1. Its a terrible idea, if you thought med slots were important now, imagine them with MWDs that simply dont work within 24+km of another target. Everyone would need an MWD and an AB on non-fleet ships. An MWD to get back through past bubbles, and an AB to have a hope of doing anything when scrambled. 2. What complicated mass crap stuff? Actually the idea isn't that bad if changed a bit. It's a MicroWARPdrive afterall so it should be affected by scram. Why not reduce MWD-speed to AB-speed when scrammed, meaning like 140% speed and 140% sig . Momentum should play a role so speed isn't dropped instantly, but slowly. 1. Inties could use their scram bonus to keep their MWD running. 2. Blasterboats could still close-in fast. The slightly bigger sig is the drawback for a fast approach. Maybe the cap-penalty needs a second thought then (no penalty? 5%? 10%?). Most ships would be better off with an AB while Inties and Blasterboats would still benefit from MWD. I favor something along these lines. I think that the best solution would be to do the following. 1. General nerf to webb strength (90% is too much) 2. MWD speed boost is now penalized when when the ship is scrammed. 3. Boost AB speed boost. I am being deliberately vague with regard to the exact numbers because I don't honestly know what combination would produce the desired effects. CCP would have to do some testing to see what tweaking is needed to make AB viable general pvp modules and MWD more oriented towards dedicated speed tanking ships and very close range ships (ie. blaster). yeah, this is the type of conversation we need guys, not a "Your Idea Sux0r" but a chat to see how it can be worked on to improve. Keep these ideas coming. Even without any AB boost, having MWD reduce to even AB speed when manually scrambled by a ship would make AB's viable again. ( since MWD uses more cap/sig etc) Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.12.18 01:07:00 - [65] Edited by: madaluap on 18/12/2007 01:07:27 So tell me how i should kill a target and move to the other one (15 km away) when flying a deimos @ a average speed of 500 m/s. While all other ships in the game fly around pew pewing the crap out of everything they see. Oh and when i finnaly arive i get webbed for, eeuh 50% speed reduction? So there i am @ 10 km range not hitting **, moving with a average of 300 m/s closer. Not to mention the that happens if 1 heavy neut hits the boat, disengaging no way. Dont turn the warpdisrupter in the new web, its stupid. Cause the situation above can be avoided easily in a AB + mwd combined vagabond/nano boat. It wont solve **, just break stuff. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.12.18 01:46:00 - [66] Originally by: Liu Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Liu Originally by: Goumindong Falloff is a terrible idea for webs. It does not work the way you think it works. how does it work then? as you increase in falloff you increase your miss chance. Such a 5+10km web would hit 50% of the time at 15km. Which effectivly makes it a 50km web that activates 5-10 seconds later. It can also web decently out to 20km since at 1.5x falloff its going to be hitting about 25% of the time. As soon as a web landed you would have caught your prey which effectily extends its range out to the distances it can hit with its falloff. are you sure? then, painters on falloff do not paint always? they just work chance based? i was pretty sure that my painters worked as far as optimal + 2xfalloff, but with reduced strentgh. Goumindong is correct. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 01:55:00 - [67] Edited by: Goumindong on 18/12/2007 01:56:16 Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 18/12/2007 01:18:38 So tell me how i should kill a target and move to the other one (15 km away) when flying a deimos @ a average speed of 500 m/s. While all other ships in the game fly around pew pewing the crap out of everything they see. Oh and when i finnaly arive i get webbed for, eeuh 50% speed reduction? So there i am @ 10 km range not hitting **, moving with a average of 300 m/s closer. Not to mention the that happens if 1 heavy neut hits the boat, disengaging no way. Dont turn the warpdisrupter in the new web, its stupid. Cause the situation above can be avoided easily in a AB + mwd combined vagabond/nano boat. It wont solve **, just break stuff. edit: If you add some sort of defence vs these warpdis for blasterboats, it might work. But it else, its just rediculous. I for one, welcome our new Amarran/Caldari overlords.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.18 02:12:00 - [68] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn Originally by: Knoppaz Yes, I did think about it. Maybe not all aspects, but that what this forum is for.. discussion, right? So why exactly is it stupid or what part is stupid from your point of view. Just saying it's stupid means nothing. Maybe I see your point if you feel like telling me.. warp scramming a blaster boat should not keep it at range...its kinda silly. No need for a web anymore, just the warp scrams. No its not, maybe blaster boat can learn to fit an AB instead? Maybe blaster boat has scram himself so he'll stop other mwds. So mid range actually wont be a dead range in eve anymore? And maybe amarr might get that little oomph they need? Maybe everyone wont fit blasters on sub-BS ships and consider rails? --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 02:14:00 - [69] Or maybe its a bad idea because blaster ships are supposed to be strong 1v1 and very small gang and laser ships arent?
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.18 02:15:00 - [70] Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 18/12/2007 01:18:38 So tell me how i should kill a target and move to the other one (15 km away) when flying a deimos @ a average speed of 500 m/s. While all other ships in the game fly around pew pewing the crap out of everything they see. Oh and when i finnaly arive i get webbed for, eeuh 50% speed reduction? So there i am @ 10 km range not hitting **, moving with a average of 300 m/s closer. Not to mention the that happens if 1 heavy neut hits the boat, disengaging no way. Dont turn the warpdisrupter in the new web, its stupid. Cause the situation above can be avoided easily in a AB + mwd combined vagabond/nano boat. It wont solve **, just break stuff. edit: If you add some sort of defence vs these warpdis for blasterboats, it might work. But it else, its just rediculous. You learn to fit rails. Maybe small and medium sized rails will become a bit more popular because right now gallente only knows how to fit mid,small and large blasters on their ships because they know they will get in range and gank the crap out of anything with mwd and eve mechanics. Compare the times you have seen a mid range ship like amarr or caldari kite a blaster boat to its death and how many times youve seen mid range ships fail and getting blasted to bits by mwding blaster boats. I know ive seen alot of pvp and I do know the first mentioned case isnt happening at all... --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice

Knoppaz Rens Nursing Home	Posted - 2007.12.18 07:37:00 - [71] Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 18/12/2007 01:18:38 So tell me how i should kill a target and move to the other one (15 km away) when flying a deimos @ a average speed of 500 m/s. While all other ships in the game fly around pew pewing the crap out of everything they see. Oh and when i finnaly arive i get webbed for, eeuh 50% speed reduction? So there i am @ 10 km range not hitting **, moving with a average of 300 m/s closer. Not to mention the that happens if 1 heavy neut hits the boat, disengaging no way. Dont turn the warpdisrupter in the new web, its stupid. Cause the situation above can be avoided easily in a AB + mwd combined vagabond/nano boat. It wont solve **, just break stuff. edit: If you add some sort of defence vs these warpdis for blasterboats, it might work. But it else, its just rediculous. Uh, must be really hard to read.. I said that scram should reduce MWD-speed slowly to AB-speed so that blaster-boats have the chance to get into blaster-range. If you like, give the MWD 160, 180 or 200% when scrammed (numbers would need to be tested) so it's slightly faster than AB, but still has a slightly bigger sig as drawback. Btw, I didn't talk about web, but if you get webbed and you web the other guy, you'll still be slightly faster than him due to the 200% (or whatever) of your MWD.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.18 09:31:00 - [72] Edited by: Gamesguy on 18/12/2007 09:32:13 I have a better idea, nerf webs to 50% speed reduction max(stacking nerfed), and then reduce mwd thrust by 25% across the board, then nerf snakes some. Alternatively, double the mass addition the mwd gives and increase thrust accordingly. So for example a 1mn mwd would increase mass by 1 million and have a thrust of 2 million newtons. Then remove the mass penalty from ABs and reduce thrust accordingly. So now mwd ships would be twice as sluggish as ships fitting AB, making orbit speeds lower, making acceleration/deceleration slower. AB would get a small boost in the form of agility. But webs need to be nerfed first.
Rhadamantine Game Community	Posted - 2007.12.18 09:34:00 - [73] I don't mind the OPs idea on AB's, but the nerfing of webs lol They have a very short range, unless you are willing to pay big money. With the whole nano ship situation, nerfing webs is the very last thing we need. Regards. Rhadamantine.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.12.18 10:38:00 - [74] Edited by: madaluap on 18/12/2007 10:40:35 Originally by: Knoppaz Edited by: Knoppaz on 18/12/2007 08:11:25 Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 18/12/2007 01:18:38 So tell me how i should kill a target and move to the other one (15 km away) when flying a deimos @ a average speed of 500 m/s. While all other ships in the game fly around pew pewing the crap out of everything they see. Oh and when i finnaly arive i get webbed for, eeuh 50% speed reduction? So there i am @ 10 km range not hitting **, moving with a average of 300 m/s closer. Not to mention the that happens if 1 heavy neut hits the boat, disengaging no way. Dont turn the warpdisrupter in the new web, its stupid. Cause the situation above can be avoided easily in a AB + mwd combined vagabond/nano boat. It wont solve *, just break stuff. edit: If you add some sort of defence vs these warpdis for blasterboats, it might work. But it else, its just rediculous. Uh, must be really hard to read.. I said that scram should reduce MWD-speed slowly to AB-speed so that blaster-boats have the chance to get into blaster-range. If you like, give the MWD 160, 180 or 200% when scrammed (numbers would need to be tested) so it's slightly faster than AB, but still has a slightly bigger sig as drawback. Btw, I didn't talk about web, but if you get webbed and you web the other guy, you'll still be slightly faster than him due to the 200% (or whatever) of your MWD. Edit: The slow speed-reduction plus the slightly higher MWD-% (meanwhile I think 200% is too much scratch head) is the "defense" for the initial approach.. It must be very hard for you to understand mechanics You dont fy a deimos solo. Its a gang ship. You engage multiply targets. When firing on the first target, you hang still. You are scrambled offcourse, but hang still. Than you move to the other guy. Now whats the slowing down part here? 0 --> 300 m/s? I dont call that slowing down. Slighty faster? Its stupid. There is absolutely nothing wrong with blasterships, nothing. If people dislike nanoships fine, but why nerf 2 races into nothingness. My huggin will avoid this crap just fine, while the ships that arent broken arent worth ***. And no you dont fit rails on a deimos unless you are tanking sentry... edit: I dont mind a speednerf, but these idea's...wtf. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Knoppaz Rens Nursing Home	Posted - 2007.12.18 11:17:00 - [75] Originally by: madaluap lots of stuff Ok, I get the feeling we're talking about two different things, so let me explain.. I'm pulling some numbers out of my rear end now so please don't take them as fact. Let's say your Deimos would go 500m/s with AB and 2000m/s with MWD. Now if you get scrammed with MWD your speed would slowly drop to 630m/s (I used 180% MWD-speed in this example) so you would be 130m/s faster than if you would use an AB. When you wan't to move to the next target you'd have to accelerate from 0 to 630m/s and would still be able to catch up (or orbit and don't have the need to accelerate at all. Blaster-tracking isn't that bad afterall ).
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.18 11:24:00 - [76] Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 18/12/2007 11:25:40 Originally by: Knoppaz Originally by: madaluap lots of stuff Ok, I get the feeling we're talking about two different things, so let me explain.. I'm pulling some numbers out of my rear end now so please don't take them as fact. Let's say your Deimos would go 500m/s with AB and 2000m/s with MWD. Now if you get scrammed with MWD your speed would slowly drop to 630m/s (I used 180% MWD-speed in this example) so you would be 130m/s faster than if you would use an AB. When you wan't to move to the next target you'd have to accelerate from 0 to 630m/s and would still be able to catch up (or orbit and don't have the need to accelerate at all. Blaster-tracking isn't that bad afterall ). I dont have any problem with anything that gives a twist to MWD. But remember this is CCP so we need something that is simple to understand to all. And we need something that can make AB's useful in pvp. I think most people agree on Scrambler to effect MWD in some way, as to disable (partially or fully) down the MWD on the target. This owuld remove 8km/s mach's that zip around, and finally remove the nano age that is a real curse on pvp currently. I guess the simple solution is that each scram point halfs the MWD thrust on target. So yeah, fast ships can still go fast, but can no longer solo-pwn gangs due to crazy speed. Someone solo-pwning a group of turret ships that cannot track such speeds will become a thing of the past, as multiple scrams will graduly reduce MWD effectiveness. This would bring back Mid-range into eve, Make AB's useful and remove the curse of nano-gangs that is destroying eve pvp. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.12.18 11:25:00 - [77] Im getting the strong feeling that even if it can move with 600m/s. The delay would be to much. Every second you spend on moving with a big sig radius is pure dps lost. 650 dps might be decent, but if it takes 15 seconds to get there, the actualy damage dealt will drop to 250 dps... _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.18 11:28:00 - [78] Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 18/12/2007 11:28:59 Originally by: madaluap Im getting the strong feeling that even if it can move with 600m/s. The delay would be to much. Every second you spend on moving with a big sig radius is pure dps lost. 650 dps might be decent, but if it takes 15 seconds to get there, the actualy damage dealt will drop to 250 dps... Thats the point - to remove the unbalanced insta-pwn mwd tactic from everyones ship. The game is unbalnced in the form that MWD + Blasters > all for close range and mid range. Mid range will come back into eve, and people will enjoy using rails and actually have good fight vs nano-gangs without having to fit a pile of nano-rapiers etc just to compete Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.12.18 11:30:00 - [79] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: madaluap Im getting the strong feeling that even if it can move with 600m/s. The delay would be to much. Every second you spend on moving with a big sig radius is pure dps lost. 650 dps might be decent, but if it takes 15 seconds to get there, the actualy damage dealt will drop to 250 dps... Thats the point - to remove the unbalanced insta-pwn mwd tactic from everyones ship. The game is unbalnced in the form that MWD + Blasters > all for close range. Mid range will come back into eve, and people will enjoy using rails and actually have good fight vs nano-gangs without having to fit a pile of nano-rapiers etc just to compete What insta pwn? I had a nano gang engage me before. ZAP crow cap gone. ZAP vagabond cap gone. Thats in the first 5 seconds. BIt of mwd and there you go a webbed vaga with 50 cap. Offcourse its > than all @ closerange. What do you espect they are the most shortrange, high damaging weapons in the game. What you want to do? Snipe with em? _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Knoppaz Rens Nursing Home	Posted - 2007.12.18 11:38:00 - [80] Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 18/12/2007 11:28:07 Im getting the strong feeling that even if it can move with 600m/s. The delay would be to much. Every second you spend on moving with a big sig radius is pure dps lost. 650 dps might be decent, but if it takes 15 seconds to get there, the actualy damage dealt will drop to 250 dps... Don't forget that not only your speed drops, but also your sig. Also blaster boats could make good use of nanos. You'd get a drop in DPS (hey, blasters have crazy DPS from scratch), but could approach faster so DPS would raise again.

madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.12.18 11:42:00 - [81] Originally by: Knoppaz Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 18/12/2007 11:28:07 Im getting the strong feeling that even if it can move with 600m/s. The delay would be to much. Every second you spend on moving with a big sig radius is pure dps lost. 650 dps might be decent, but if it takes 15 seconds to get there, the actualy damage dealt will drop to 250 dps... Don't forget that not only your speed drops, but also your sig. Also blaster boats could make good use of nanos. You'd get a drop in DPS (hey, blasters have crazy DPS from scratch), but could approach faster so DPS would raise again. Maybe that 'crazy' cause it aint all that crazy. Yeh lets counter high speed, by gimping a ship that just received a mass decrease so it could compete. Awesome. Maybe that 'crazy' dps is there cause they have like 5 km range compared to 15-20 on amarr and 60+ on caldari. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Knoppaz Rens Nursing Home	Posted - 2007.12.18 11:49:00 - [82] Well, lasers are a bit limited due to heavy cap use and damage type and Caldari don't use blasters at 60km. They have to use rails for it so they have a) low DPS and b) are not in scram range so you can buzz towards them with full MWD speed. While we're at it, Autos are still in your range and Arties do crap DPS..
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.18 11:51:00 - [83] Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 18/12/2007 11:52:34 Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Knoppaz Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 18/12/2007 11:28:07 Im getting the strong feeling that even if it can move with 600m/s. The delay would be to much. Every second you spend on moving with a big sig radius is pure dps lost. 650 dps might be decent, but if it takes 15 seconds to get there, the actualy damage dealt will drop to 250 dps... Don't forget that not only your speed drops, but also your sig. Also blaster boats could make good use of nanos. You'd get a drop in DPS (hey, blasters have crazy DPS from scratch), but could approach faster so DPS would raise again. Maybe that 'crazy' cause it aint all that crazy. Yeh lets counter high speed, by gimping a ship that just received a mass decrease so it could compete. Awesome. Maybe that 'crazy' dps is there cause they have like 5 km range compared to 15-20 on amarr and 60+ on caldari. Except that Caldari dont fight at 60+, and Amarr certainly dont fight at 15-20. They all either fight at 0-8km or at 100km+ You have to remember - this works in your favor! Currently, if you fight someone, they will MWD away from you to get out of your optimal. However, if oyu have a AB, you can disable partially or fully their MWD with your scram so they cannot escape. This means they will have a hard time outruning you. If nothing is done, then everybody will carry on this nano crap and you will get less targets. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Raekone	Posted - 2007.12.18 11:53:00 - [84] I really don't know why you people bother. We all know the final sollutions to fixing things never are even remotely close to what people suggest on these forums. In fact I'd keep all really good "fixes" under the lid - chances are CCP might think it up themselves and not throw it away classed as a "user idea so it must suck"
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.18 11:55:00 - [85] Originally by: Raekone I really don't know why you people bother. We all know the final sollutions to fixing things never are even remotely close to what people suggest on these forums. In fact I'd keep all really good "fixes" under the lid - chances are CCP might think it up themselves and not throw it away classed as a "user idea so it must suck" CCP listen to players ideas when it comes to nerfing things. I mean, just look at all the Amarr nerfs in the past 2 years! Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:18:00 - [86] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Currently, if you fight someone, they will MWD away from you to get out of your optimal. However, if oyu have a AB, you can disable partially or fully their MWD with your scram so they cannot escape. This means they will have a hard time outruning you. If nothing is done, then everybody will carry on this nano crap and you will get less targets. Making MWD suspectable to scrams is deleting MWD from the game. Interceptor tackling your BS? Turn on the distruptor, no speed, kill it. Blasterboat closing in? Turn on the distruptor, no speed, just kill it before it gets to you with a 30 m/s advantage. Nanoship fighting you? Guess what, turn on the disturptor and kill it. Basically, all of your problems with being slow are solved by simply packing a disturptor. Ha ha. It makes blobs better because you can't have everyone's MWD disabled unless you've got at least a 1:1 ratio, so if you blob someone, half or more of your guys will be able to MWD while they won't because they've all got points on them, disabling MWDs. Stupidest idea, ever. Rifters!
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:24:00 - [87] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: madaluap Im getting the strong feeling that even if it can move with 600m/s. The delay would be to much. Every second you spend on moving with a big sig radius is pure dps lost. 650 dps might be decent, but if it takes 15 seconds to get there, the actualy damage dealt will drop to 250 dps... Thats the point - to remove the unbalanced insta-pwn mwd tactic from everyones ship. The game is unbalnced in the form that MWD + Blasters > all for close range. Mid range will come back into eve, and people will enjoy using rails and actually have good fight vs nano-gangs without having to fit a pile of nano-rapiers etc just to compete a) The nanoships you mention all fight at mid-range, so mid range is well and alive b) The fact you don't know how to deal with nano-gangs is completely your own problem. c) Blaters + MWD is the win vs people who let you MWD up to them and do nothing about it, and even then it might not be the win. It could be a horrible death for the blasterboat. Ofc, if you try to out-DPS blasters with ACs or lasers at 1km range, you're very likely to die a horrible death, but you had it coming for not playing to your ship's strenghts and letting the other guy do that. Brain usage is for the win. Rifters!
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:25:00 - [88] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Jonny JoJo Currently, if you fight someone, they will MWD away from you to get out of your optimal. However, if oyu have a AB, you can disable partially or fully their MWD with your scram so they cannot escape. This means they will have a hard time outruning you. If nothing is done, then everybody will carry on this nano crap and you will get less targets. Making MWD suspectable to scrams is deleting MWD from the game. Interceptor tackling your BS? Turn on the distruptor, no speed, kill it. Blasterboat closing in? Turn on the distruptor, no speed, just kill it before it gets to you with a 30 m/s advantage. Nanoship fighting you? Guess what, turn on the disturptor and kill it. Basically, all of your problems with being slow are solved by simply packing a disturptor. Ha ha. It makes blobs better because you can't have everyone's MWD disabled unless you've got at least a 1:1 ratio, so if you blob someone, half or more of your guys will be able to MWD while they won't because they've all got points on them, disabling MWDs. Stupidest idea, ever. Somebody WARP Scramble's a nano****. Scramble should effect their microWARP drive in some way. Otherwise AB's are compleatly useless. Back on point, cepter tackling your bs at 7-8km/s? Well, put on a point or 2 and he tackles at 2-3 kms, sounds reasonable. You see, YOU make the assumption that MWD grinds to 0, I on the other hand, say that MWD should be effected so that AB's become competitive again. Currently, gangs of nanoships fight, and if you ar enot a nano ship, you will pretty much die unless protected by gangs of multi-webber rapiers etc. Nano ship vs non-nanoship will result in the nano ship not losing. He may not win, but he can escape if loosing, assuming he has a brain. Its either this or wait till CCP compleatly nerfs MWD, so take your pick. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:31:00 - [89] Nah, the mwd speed reduction from a scram is a bad idea. To me it doesnt make sense. The best way to get people to start using AB is to improve them. They are way to slow as they are now. Improve their speed to about 300% with good skills and mwd at about 500% with good skills. Increase frig standard speed by about 100 to 200ms. Yes that much. For exmaple that alone would make AF decent as they are fairly quick if fitted with a mwd and still clock of 1k with an AB. Just close the gab between ceptors and AF. Ceptors will still remain fast but the margin wont be so large. Increase Cruiser speed by a tad. Like 50ms to 100. Keep BC and BS about the same. What I want to see is a larger gap between speeds of Frigs to cruisers, cruisers to battleships and close the speed gab between AB and MWD by about half. Put it this way, I think a raven with average nav skills can do about 800 to 900 with a mwd. With an AB it does like 200ms. That gap is way to big.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:42:00 - [90] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 18/12/2007 12:45:55 Originally by: Jonny JoJo Somebody WARP Scramble's a nano**. Scramble should effect their microWARP drive in some way. Otherwise AB's are compleatly useless. Then MWD is completely useless. Of course, if you insist on fitting ABs and not having any anti-nanoship gear, what do you expect? If you think you should be able to kill (or even defend from) everything without refitting, you're being silly. Originally by:** Jonny JoJo Back on point, cepter tackling your bs at 7-8km/s? Well, put on a point or 2 and he tackles at 2-3 kms, sounds reasonable. Then ceptors are completely useless unless fitted with Gistii ABs. They were in fact boosted last patch so you can't shut them down so trivially with a single neut (half of them now can tackle at 28km instead of 24). Originally by: Jonny JoJo You see, YOU make the assumption that MWD grinds to 0, I on the other hand, say that MWD should be effected so that AB's become competitive again. ABs are competitive for a few select purposes already. With a 50% boost to ABs (and maybe a small reducton to MWD speed boost or not) they'd be competitive for a lot more things. ABs will never and should never be competitive with MWDing ships of their own class. A AB-ing BC should never ever catch a MWD-ing BC which makes significant fitting / cap sacrifices to have better topspeed. I'd consider it sensible if a frig with a AB was just a tad slower then a crusier with a MWD and that'd go a long way towards making ABs competitive. I kindof agree with the other guy who said it previously. Originally by: Jonny JoJo Currently, gangs of nanoships fight, and if you ar enot a nano ship, you will pretty much die unless protected by gangs of multi-webber rapiers etc. Nano ship vs non-nanoship will result in the nano ship not losing. He may not win, but he can escape if loosing, assuming he has a brain. Rubbish. However, since you don't want to use a MWD on your ship and still want to be able to catch people using MWDs, I think you have a cluelessness problem and a syndrome of "Meeeh, I want a anti-everything fit.". May you be perma-jammed by a caldari recon gang so you can whine about that on the forums too. It's like complaining that your cap recharger II doesn't give you as much cap as someone's cap booster. Someone fit for speed, you didn't, and you want to catch him? Having MWD disabled by warp scrams means: let MWD only work when we're blobbing someone. Rifters!



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