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Theron Gyrow Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.12.17 10:56:00 - [31] Originally by: Rawr Cristina I think the fact the Phoon being on the top of that list says how realistic those figures really are. Don't diss the Phoon! It's a brilliant ship after the torp boost. (Raven is probably overpowered.) -- Gradient forum
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.17 11:02:00 - [32] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 17/12/2007 11:06:07 Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 17/12/2007 11:05:25 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Yes you gotta consider the whole ship + dps. Let see amarr battleships didnt get high dps. What did they get instead? Speed? No Enough tackling mid slots on geddon? No Low cap weapon so abaddon can fire its weapons longer then 1min? No Apoc that is more viable with unbonused non amarr weapons? Yes So what do the amarr battleships get for this lack of dps? Because they sure use alot of cap. Im just wondering what we got out of the deal... what the top dps battleships on that list are failing at that amarr ships dont as a penalty for their higher dps... How about being able to realistically approach said DPS while still having a viable in game fitting? You cannot possibly think that the geddon sucks. -Liang A forth mid would be nice instead of the crappy extra high slot. Even a -1 low for +1 mid would be better. Everyone is forgetting that amarr are getting gimped by slot layout and arent, imo, compensated enough for that failure. A geddon with 4 mids, more powerful. An abso with 4 mids more powerful. Basically any inty/frig with 3 mids is better then one with 1 or 2. Any cruiser/hac with 4 mids is pretty much better then 3mids. Any bc with 4mids is better then a 3mid bc. You know why amarr were given these low amount of mid slots to begin with? Its to give them a nerf for their high dps combined with many lows = tank. Today that dps role is a lie and an epic fail in many amarr ships. So remove the nerf, give us -1 high or low for +1 mid on our turret ships. Honestly abaddon outperforms geddon by a large margin in any way. Abaddon is just a better geddon and geddon is basically used for its cheap price tag, thats it. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Vaal Erit	Posted - 2007.12.17 11:03:00 - [33] It's kind of sad, the OP has good intentions and even puts up a dsiclaimer, but the short bus people just blow right through any sort of logic and make a dumb statement like below: Originally by: Jonny JoJo Intresting. Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente stll Top Amarr ships. So much for high DPS amarr. I predict your next Amarr whine post will be obscenely fail, Jonny JoJo. But it will be a good laugh.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2007.12.17 12:06:00 - [34] Originally by: Vaal Erit It's kind of sad, the OP has good intentions and even puts up a dsiclaimer, but the short bus people just blow right through any sort of logic and make a dumb statement like below: Originally by: Jonny JoJo Intresting. Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente stll Top Amarr ships. So much for high DPS amarr. I predict your next Amarr whine post will be obscenely fail, Jonny JoJo. But it will be a good laugh. They can't help it, esp. ms. Skydancer who manages to appear in every damned thread remotely connected to Amarr in any way whatsoever and whine about it till the cows come home -----
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.17 16:18:00 - [35] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Vaal Erit It's kind of sad, the OP has good intentions and even puts up a dsiclaimer, but the short bus people just blow right through any sort of logic and make a dumb statement like below: Originally by: Jonny JoJo Intresting. Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente stll Top Amarr ships. So much for high DPS amarr. I predict your next Amarr whine post will be obscenely fail, Jonny JoJo. But it will be a good laugh. They can't help it, esp. ms. Skydancer who manages to appear in every damned thread remotely connected to Amarr in any way whatsoever and whine about it till the cows come home Maybe post something that proves us wrong instead of posting this? --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Imaos	Posted - 2007.12.17 17:01:00 - [36] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Maybe post something that proves us wrong instead of posting this? That apparently won't stop you and your jojo. If someone would post a RP about amarrian drinks you would post how bad their ships fare compared to their drinks. There is also a bigger picture than EFT damage. If you would plot all that theoretical max damage in relation to range you'd see that the different ships excel at different ranges. Gallente blasters have an optimal of 11km with t2 ranged ammo. Amarr has 17km with t2 damage crystals, 33km with navy crystals. (For the mentally challenged trolls: Comparing longest range on blasters (not the highest damage) vs short range amarr crystals (highest damage)). The abaddon also gets 25% to each resist vs the no tank at all mega the OP listed for 'just' 200 dps less. I'd also say the theoretical max damage is quite close together for all except the last 3 battleships. Oh and the last 2 arent even amarr. Imaos ------------------------------------------ Originally by: NoNah My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.12.17 18:16:00 - [37] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Vaal Erit It's kind of sad, the OP has good intentions and even puts up a dsiclaimer, but the short bus people just blow right through any sort of logic and make a dumb statement like below: Originally by: Jonny JoJo Intresting. Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente stll Top Amarr ships. So much for high DPS amarr. I predict your next Amarr whine post will be obscenely fail, Jonny JoJo. But it will be a good laugh. They can't help it, esp. ms. Skydancer who manages to appear in every damned thread remotely connected to Amarr in any way whatsoever and whine about it till the cows come home Maybe post something that proves us wrong instead of posting this? Lyria, the post of jojo was just stupid. It just was. You shouldnt defend crap like that. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Draydin Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.17 19:00:00 - [38] Actually, the typhoon can turn that into a decent setup. Replace a gyrostab, and a BCS with 2 co-processors. Then put on an X-large shield booster, heavy cap booster, and 2 invunerability fields. For rigs you can use an anti-EM, and anti-Thermal shield booster, as well as a ancillery current router to make it all fit. You can get 1373 DPS with a 353 DPS shield tank, that will last until you run out of charges. If you want a MWD on it then the tank drops to 256 DPS. not alot, but still enough to handle a small ships. Draydin > So, I'm going to fit my ship with nothing but lasers, cap rechargers, and heat sinks. Pillazo > Thats crazy! Draydin > Crazy like an amarr! Pillazo > amarr arent crazy... Drayin > O
royal killer Amarr The Funkalistic SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.17 20:09:00 - [39] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Intresting. Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente stll Top Amarr ships. So much for high DPS amarr. I'm just surprised the Apocalypse isn't the bottom one --------------------
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.18 00:00:00 - [40] Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Vaal Erit It's kind of sad, the OP has good intentions and even puts up a dsiclaimer, but the short bus people just blow right through any sort of logic and make a dumb statement like below: Originally by: Jonny JoJo Intresting. Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente stll Top Amarr ships. So much for high DPS amarr. I predict your next Amarr whine post will be obscenely fail, Jonny JoJo. But it will be a good laugh. They can't help it, esp. ms. Skydancer who manages to appear in every damned thread remotely connected to Amarr in any way whatsoever and whine about it till the cows come home Maybe post something that proves us wrong instead of posting this? Lyria, the post of jojo was just stupid. It just was. You shouldnt defend crap like that. I dont defend his post, what I do defend is the opinion that lasers+amarr ships dont do enough damage if you look at all the huge drawbacks. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Princess Xenia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.12.18 00:19:00 - [41] Originally by: royal killer Originally by: Jonny JoJo Intresting. Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente stll Top Amarr ships. So much for high DPS amarr. I'm just surprised the Apocalypse isn't the bottom one I believe the apocalypse in OP was equipped with blasters...
Shardrael Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.12.18 01:09:00 - [42] you guys really need to stop playing eve on eft and get back in the real game. those figures are so far off ingame situations its not even funny. and yes I realized the op made a disclaimer about this however quite a few in the thread seem to not be paying that any attention.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.18 01:14:00 - [43] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I dont defend his post, what I do defend is the opinion that lasers+amarr ships dont do enough damage if you look at all the huge drawbacks. Then say so directly, and make rational assertions and provide real evidence. Additionally, sounding like the dev's petulant 4 year old daughter doesn't help your case either. -Liang -- I give up (Make me say whatever you want!): Price Check: Liang Nuren
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.18 02:03:00 - [44] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I dont defend his post, what I do defend is the opinion that lasers+amarr ships dont do enough damage if you look at all the huge drawbacks. Then say so directly, and make rational assertions and provide real evidence. Additionally, sounding like the dev's petulant 4 year old daughter doesn't help your case either. -Liang I did discuss the issue above: Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 17/12/2007 11:06:07 Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 17/12/2007 11:05:25 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Yes you gotta consider the whole ship + dps. Let see amarr battleships didnt get high dps. What did they get instead? Speed? No Enough tackling mid slots on geddon? No Low cap weapon so abaddon can fire its weapons longer then 1min? No Apoc that is more viable with unbonused non amarr weapons? Yes So what do the amarr battleships get for this lack of dps? Because they sure use alot of cap. Im just wondering what we got out of the deal... what the top dps battleships on that list are failing at that amarr ships dont as a penalty for their higher dps... How about being able to realistically approach said DPS while still having a viable in game fitting? You cannot possibly think that the geddon sucks. -Liang A forth mid would be nice instead of the crappy extra high slot. Even a -1 low for +1 mid would be better. Everyone is forgetting that amarr are getting gimped by slot layout and arent, imo, compensated enough for that failure. A geddon with 4 mids, more powerful. An abso with 4 mids more powerful. Basically any inty/frig with 3 mids is better then one with 1 or 2. Any cruiser/hac with 4 mids is pretty much better then 3mids. Any bc with 4mids is better then a 3mid bc. You know why amarr were given these low amount of mid slots to begin with? Its to give them a nerf for their high dps combined with many lows = tank. Today that dps role is a lie and an epic fail in many amarr ships. So remove the nerf, give us -1 high or low for +1 mid on our turret ships. Honestly abaddon outperforms geddon by a large margin in any way. Abaddon is just a better geddon and geddon is basically used for its cheap price tag, thats it. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Marn Prestoc Minmatar The Black Mamba's	Posted - 2007.12.18 02:11:00 - [45] Edited by: Marn Prestoc on 18/12/2007 02:13:12 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Maybe post something that proves us wrong instead of posting this? Your smarter than this Lyria... What would you prefer? Typhoon with: 50k effective HP and 1332 DPS. (< 3km with TP) or 93k effective HP and 1181 DPS. (< 3km with TP) Geddon with: 52k effective HP and 1250 DPS. (< 15km) or 110k effective HP and 1172 DPS. (< 15km) All this topic does is show how avoiding the stacking penalty of 4th, 5th and 6th mods through a split slot system, which allows you can get 151 more DPS for halfing the tank you could fit with those 3 slots. -
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.18 02:29:00 - [46] Originally by: Marn Prestoc Edited by: Marn Prestoc on 18/12/2007 02:13:12 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Maybe post something that proves us wrong instead of posting this? Your smarter than this Lyria... What would you prefer? Typhoon with: 50k effective HP and 1332 DPS. (< 3km with TP) or 93k effective HP and 1181 DPS. (< 3km with TP) Geddon with: 52k effective HP and 1250 DPS. (< 15km) or 110k effective HP and 1172 DPS. (< 15km) All this topic does is show how avoiding the stacking penalty of 4th, 5th and 6th mods through a split slot system, which allows you can get 151 more DPS for halfing the tank you could fit with those 3 slots. Id rather have a megathron and a maelstrom... --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Trind2222 Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.12.18 09:57:00 - [47] Edited by: Trind2222 on 18/12/2007 09:58:53 I think the Armageddon is best value for the buck. Other ship are more expensive to lose but if any one can calculate what is the best ship for the isk go a head.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2007.12.18 10:02:00 - [48] Originally by: Trind2222 Edited by: Trind2222 on 18/12/2007 09:58:53 I think the Armageddon is best value for the buck. Other ship are more expensive to lose but if any one can calculate what is the best ship for the isk go a head. QFT with normal setups the gank value of this ship is probably third to the hype and mega,whilst at the same time being able to hit targets at 15km with shortrange and nearly 40km with longrange ammo.
CraicWhore	Posted - 2007.12.18 11:07:00 - [49] Originally by: Lance Fighter mmm since im bored, top tier frigates (need i honestly do the other tiers?) Incursus: 211 Rifter: 179 Tristan: 176 Punisher: 157 Kessy: 140 Merlin: 135 Inquisitor: 134 Breacher: 132 Seeing the incursus, (which isn't actually a top-tier rigate) top the list just warms the*****les of me heart
Niffetin Gallente CONsordium Infinate	Posted - 2007.12.18 11:08:00 - [50] Boost Amarr as they suck! WTS: Armageddon / Void L / Mobile Large Warp Disruptor
Minerva Moore	Posted - 2007.12.18 11:51:00 - [51] Originally by: Niffetin Boost Amarr as they suck! Oh, if only more posts were as informative, eloquent, well argued and on-topic as this one.
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:01:00 - [52] RE: 1. Brutix - 929 !! Great Scot... NERF the Brutix !! - Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint! Please read my ideas
FawKa Gallente x13	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:18:00 - [53] SHHH FFS ! I want the Phoon to be kept as a **ty ship while it s really not It's probably the most underwarimated BS ever. Lot's of DPS for a long time training it. Originally by:** Danjira Ryuujin Not being able to adapt and not being able to use the search button seem to go hand in hand.
Kur'Dekaija Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.18 13:14:00 - [54] Originally by: FawKa SHHH FFS ! I want the Phoon to be kept as a **ty ship while it s really not It's probably the most underwarimated BS ever. Lot's of DPS for a long time training it. still its a fkn scary ship in the hands of a good high skilled pilot, ether you get wtf!!?!? dps with high effective HP or a fast **** that outruns and laughs at my mega :( but megathrons and geddons/abbadons 4tw :D
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2007.12.18 14:45:00 - [55] In the same line as the OP Similar caveats apply, I used T2 ammo wherever possible, and fit whatever turrets seemed to do the most damage given the ship's damage bonus. Anything without a damage bonus, gets the highest dps number by fitting heavy neutron IIs/HAM IIs for example. Any *****ing or use of these numbers as evidence in balance whines will at the very best result in extensive mockery. Couldn't quite decide whether to include smartbombs in utility slots or not, so I've separated them out. But you could in theory add 19dps to the Arbitrator, Maller, Vexor or Augoror, by slapping a smarty on there. Cruisers: CruisersDPS Thorax709 Vexor684 Rupture645 Omen499 Moa 477 Exequeror460 Bellicose448 Arbitrator447 Celestis433 Caracal384 Maller380 Osprey361 Stabber345 Augoror284 Scythe283 Blackbird254 -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP
me bored	Posted - 2007.12.18 15:05:00 - [56] SHUTTLES ARE THE ONLY BALANCED SHIPS REMOVE EVERYTHING ELSE FROM THE GAME
Jezala Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.12.18 16:03:00 - [57] The OP did a good job in giving us data on the maximum DPS potential of the BS, but to really capitalize on the value of his data we need to run a comparison between a max DPS BS vs moderately tanked BS vs fully tanked BS. That should show us the performance flexibility of a BS. For example we may find that if a max DPS Armageddon gives up 2 heatsinks for 2 1600 plates the total DPS only drops by 50 DPS. Therefore showing us that Armageddon DPS performance is relatively inflexible but on the high end of the scale. This is all theoretical stuff but is nonetheless important that we somehow condense our field knowledge and experience into quantifiable values which will allow us to develop and run more detailed simulations in the future.
Liam Fremen Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2007.12.18 16:17:00 - [58] Edited by: Liam Fremen on 18/12/2007 16:19:00 Edited by: Liam Fremen on 18/12/2007 16:17:49 EFT is a good tool for who KNOW how to fit ships, just for checking if it fits and resist etc without undocking trying ur damage control or ur active hardeners. At the same time is a COMPLETE MESS for all the damn ppl that approach this game like you approach something like wow or other craps: Hey dude how high is ur "magic attack skill" -> i got 1 bazillion!!! woa you are cool. This is how we want eve? i can clean my ass with ur damn dps count and stuff, i use EFT too, but for checking fitting that i growed up with experience on field shooting at people, solo and in group. Stop it please, people are REALLY getting mad at DPS and ****s, was way better then people fitted the ships with BRAIN and not with EFT. PS: this post is not related to this event in particular, but is a general idea regarding the damn EFT Online that is became the NEW way of playing eve, remember then when you click 2x time "polycarbon engine housing" 80m of your isk are sinked, when you click 100mn mwd t2, 5m of ur isk are sinked, when you freaking put t2 CCC on battleships you are sinking 200+m each. _________________________________________________
nabort Immoral Tendancies	Posted - 2007.12.18 16:21:00 - [59] [ 2007.12.08 21:03:57 ] (combat) Your Topic glances off Liam Fremen, causing no real damage. Somewhere along the line you missed the point of my post. The point is there is no point, and that I was merely mucking around and curious to see some random meaningless numbers.
Liam Fremen Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2007.12.18 16:25:00 - [60] Originally by: nabort [ 2007.12.08 21:03:57 ] (combat) Your Topic glances off Liam Fremen, causing no real damage. Somewhere along the line you missed the point of my post. The point is there is no point, and that I was merely mucking around and curious to see some random meaningless numbers. Ohh.... Well, EFT Online sux at same _________________________________________________

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