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Vargur is just incredible!

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Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.12.18 01:26:00 - [1] Edited by: Bellum Eternus on 18/12/2007 01:26:30 Finally skilled up Min BS 5 on Sisi. Wow. Setup: Highs: 4x 800 AC T2, 3x offlined mods for heatsinks. Mids: 100MN T2 MWD, T2 heavy injector w/ 800s, ivuln 2, XL shield booster 2, t2 24km scram, shield boost amp 2. Lows: 3x Gyrostab 2, DC2, RCU 2 Rigs: 1x grid rig, 1x EM rig T1 Drones: 3x Ogre IIs (yeah, I know, 2 heavies, 2 medium, 2 light for max dps. W/E. Stats: Tanks around 685 DPS (!!!) Cap stable w/ mwd off really easy. Shield resists are 65.8% EM, 56.9% therm, 63% kin, 75.4% exp. The crazy stuff: 805 DPS w/ faction EMP, 3km optimal, THIRTY KILOMETER FALLOFF LOL. With faction EMP. OMG. That's not even overloading the guns yet. Overloaded they get around 925 dps. With Hail you get 15km falloff and 890 dps, and around 1020 dps overloaded. But IMO the tracking and range nerf isn't worth it to use hail over EMP, but with overload, you're getting another 100 dps w/ hail vs. EMP, so maybe in a pinch, it's worth it. The Vargur is fast. Really fast. With a plain jane T2 MWD you're looking at 1455m/sec with no speed implants, and accel control at 5. You can kite BS all day with this thing, and most BCs. The tracking with the Vargur's bonus is just awesome with ACs. You can hit just about anything larger than a frig 100% of the time, and most frigs are hit often enough to shred them in a few vollies if they're inside 30km. 3x Ogre IIs add another 190 DPS or so. Did I mention that it tanks 685 DPS? There is no web on my setup, but if you want one, drop the invuln 2 and you lose a bit of tank, but you're still tanking something like 570 DPS, which is ridiculous. If you're really worried about ECM, you can always drop a Gyro II and fit a low slot ECCM without compromising your setup that much. You won't be doing gank mega DPS at 30km anymore, but wtf do you want? You still end up doing over 700 dps at 30km, with just the guns and two gyros, no drones. This thing makes the Kronos look pathetic. Yeah, I had to use an RCU II and a grid rig to make it all fit. The above setup is designed around T1/T2 only, with no faction. If you fit faction stuff, or expensive stuff like T2 rigs, I'm sure you could either lose the RCU, or grid rig, the tank would go through the roof, not to mention faction Gyros for more DPS. To sum it up: 1445m/sec, 685 DPS tanked, 995 DPS with guns/drones @30km+, really easy on cap use, and relatively cheap to fit (all T2, no faction required). So what if you need some fitting mods, this thing is sick, even if it needs an RCU and grid rig. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.18 01:30:00 - [2] Falloff is not free damage, you're doing 40% damage at max falloff, and hyperion can tank/gank better anyways.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.12.18 01:36:00 - [3] Just for comparison, my Kronos setup I'm currently using on TQ: Highs: 4x Neutron IIs, 3x offlined mods, faction AM ammo Mids: mwd/web/scram/t2 injector with 800s Lows: T2 rep, 1600 plate, dc2, 2x eanm2, 2x magstab 2 Rigs: 2x aux. nanopump 1s Drones: 3x berserker 2s and 5x EC-600s as backup. 950 DPS from the guns w/ faction ammo, 4km effective range. After about 8km, you're doing next to nothing. Tanks about 430 DPS. Cap stable with the single injector and MWD off, but no where near the cap efficiency of the Vargur or Golem. It's better than the Mega, Hype, or Navy Mega/Vindi, (except for the crap sensor strength), but the Golem and Vargur have equal/greater DPS and almost twice the tank. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.12.18 01:40:00 - [4] Originally by: Gamesguy Falloff is not free damage, you're doing 40% damage at max falloff, and hyperion can tank/gank better anyways. See the above post for my Kronos comparison. You're not only wrong, you're completely horribly stupidly wrong. Let's not talk out our ass shall we? I've been putting the listed setups 1v1 for two days on Sisi. The Vargur walks all over the Kronos. At 15km+ the Kronos is doing pretty much 0 DPS from it's guns, while the Vargur is doing over 800, able to run it's MWD and shield booster, while the Kronos can never catch it, and running it's MWD ruins it's cap, making it unable to fire it's guns anyway. But since you're speaking on the subject, I'm assuming you're able to fly both ships fully T2 fit then yes? And have actual experience using them? Right? Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 01:53:00 - [5] Edited by: Goumindong on 18/12/2007 01:53:42 About half that at 30km. DPS @ 1/2 falloff is 39% of listed DPS. Now, a hyperion can tank 1000 DPS and do 1300 DPS while going 1500m/s and it gets a web and a scram. OMG OVERPOWERD!!! ed: a vagur kiting a kronos at 15km is a dead vargur.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.12.18 01:57:00 - [6] Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 18/12/2007 01:53:42 About half that at 30km. DPS @ 1/2 falloff is 39% of listed DPS. Now, a hyperion can tank 1000 DPS and do 1300 DPS while going 1500m/s and it gets a web and a scram. OMG OVERPOWERD!!! ed: a vagur kiting a kronos at 15km is a dead vargur. Ok, kite it at 20-24km. Out of overheated Domination web range. BTW, what sustainable/workable Hype setup tanks 1k dps, does 1300, and reaches 1500m/sec? I hope you're not thinking of a dual large rep 8x neutron setup lol. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Lisento Slaven Amarr Lisento and Miscellaneous Elk	Posted - 2007.12.18 02:00:00 - [7] Isn't there still a chance all your shots will hit at falloff? So you could technically just get...lucky no? I would love to use the Vargur in pvp if it didn't cost so fricken much. --- Put in space whales!
Celedris Stimulus	Posted - 2007.12.18 02:02:00 - [8] 11-point sensor strength on a billion isk gank battleship is like a license to get perma-jammed.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.18 02:05:00 - [9] Edited by: Goumindong on 18/12/2007 02:05:16 Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 18/12/2007 01:53:42 About half that at 30km. DPS @ 1/2 falloff is 39% of listed DPS. Now, a hyperion can tank 1000 DPS and do 1300 DPS while going 1500m/s and it gets a web and a scram. OMG OVERPOWERD!!! ed: a vagur kiting a kronos at 15km is a dead vargur. Ok, kite it at 20-24km. Out of overheated Domination web range. BTW, what sustainable/workable Hype setup tanks 1k dps, does 1300, and reaches 1500m/sec? I hope you're not thinking of a dual large rep 8x neutron setup lol. No, the one that overloads its modules for a couple of cycles fitting a standard t2 tank rigged The vargur needs to keep its mwd on the entire time to kite you, you do not need to mwd the entire time to web it. If he kites at 20 km, allign and burst out of scram range when he is in a disadvantagious position.
Aeaus The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2007.12.18 02:07:00 - [10] Originally by: Celedris 11-point sensor strength on a billion isk gank battleship is like a license to get perma-jammed. Bingo, not to mention it's pretty suboptimal when compared to the other BS options out there. My Falcon on a racial Jammer gets a strength of 13.55 (I only have Signal Dispersion IV), and if you fit an ECCM, well, you'd simply be better off going with a T1 alternative that isn't gimped in sensor strength.

Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.18 02:16:00 - [11] Originally by: Bellum Eternus To sum it up: 1445m/sec, 685 DPS tanked, 995 DPS with guns/drones @30km+, really easy on cap use, and relatively cheap to fit (all T2, no faction required). So what if you need some fitting mods, this thing is sick, even if it needs an RCU and grid rig. Very funny... Now try this: Typhoon: 2 LAR2 1 DCU2 1 EANM2 3 hardeners T2 T2 MWD 2 medium cap booster II 1 warp disruptor T2 4 x dual 425mm T2 with RF EMP L 4 x Cruise II with CN missiles Anti-Explosive Pump I Auxiliary Nano Pump I x 2 Resists: 80.9%/80.5%/77.5%/78.2% Average DPS tanked: 892 710 DPS dealt, 517 of it at 50+ Km Max speed: 1266m/s (faster if non-armor rigs are used to bring it down to the tanking level of your Vargur) Cost: around 120m or 1/6th the base cost of a Vargur. Now what was the point of the Vargur again? "...been designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Imagine a handful of repair drones pouring from the carebear's mouth. Now imagine they have um, nothing." -Unknown Hel redesigner (2007)
Swiftness Caldari VMF-214 Blacksheep	Posted - 2007.12.18 02:19:00 - [12] pvp setup ? have fun getting owned by 3hornet ec-300 all i see is an expensive mael. In the wonderful land of sisi 1v1s it may sound awesome to kite battleships at 25 km but when it comes to realistic battleship combat either u web the target for killing it either u or the target gets the fck out.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.18 02:29:00 - [13] Edited by: Gamesguy on 18/12/2007 02:29:47 Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Gamesguy Falloff is not free damage, you're doing 40% damage at max falloff, and hyperion can tank/gank better anyways. See the above post for my Kronos comparison. You're not only wrong, you're completely horribly stupidly wrong. Let's not talk out our ass shall we? I've been putting the listed setups 1v1 for two days on Sisi. The Vargur walks all over the Kronos. At 15km+ the Kronos is doing pretty much 0 DPS from it's guns, while the Vargur is doing over 800, able to run it's MWD and shield booster, while the Kronos can never catch it, and running it's MWD ruins it's cap, making it unable to fire it's guns anyway. But since you're speaking on the subject, I'm assuming you're able to fly both ships fully T2 fit then yes? And have actual experience using them? Right? Man you're a complete idiot. Typical bthron pilot tbh. Try this instead of "zomg must fit neutron blasters". 4x Ion blaster II(CN AM/null) 3x Whatever, you can downgrade to electron to fit a heavy neut in here as well, or you can run mediums and offline mods. 1x 100mn MWD 1x heavy cap booster II 1x point 1x domi web 2x LAR II 2x EANM II 1x DCU 2x Mag stabs 2x Aux nano Is. 3x Ogres, 5x EC-600s. 1080 DPS with CN AM, 865 DPS tank with both reppers active. Cap runs for 6.5 minutes without the mwd, plenty of time. At 15km the kronos overheats his web and webs the Vargur, dead vargur coming up. At 22km the vargur is doing **** all dps while the Kronos is still doing 900(optimal+falloff on null is 23km). At 25km(faction disruptor I guess) the kronos mwds out of disruptor range and warp. And yes, I can fly the kronos(well my alt can), I cannot fly the vargur, only the t2 amarr and gallente BS.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.12.18 03:12:00 - [14] Originally by: Swiftness pvp setup ? have fun getting owned by 3hornet ec-300 all i see is an expensive mael. In the wonderful land of sisi 1v1s it may sound awesome to kite battleships at 25 km but when it comes to realistic battleship combat either u web the target for killing it either u or the target gets the fck out. 3 empty high slots and no smart bombs
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.18 03:22:00 - [15] Empties work as heatsinks, I may even stop fitting smarties to my Ravens.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.18 03:38:00 - [16] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Swiftness pvp setup ? have fun getting owned by 3hornet ec-300 all i see is an expensive mael. In the wonderful land of sisi 1v1s it may sound awesome to kite battleships at 25 km but when it comes to realistic battleship combat either u web the target for killing it either u or the target gets the fck out. 3 empty high slots and no smart bombs Dont't you know that dps is the only thing that matters in eve?
Enkilil Minmatar Carbon Moon Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.18 03:57:00 - [17] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton 3 empty high slots and no smart bombs Why not use 1 for a cloak? Yousa gonna get GANKD.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.12.18 03:58:00 - [18] Originally by: Swiftness pvp setup ? have fun getting owned by 3hornet ec-300 all i see is an expensive mael. In the wonderful land of sisi 1v1s it may sound awesome to kite battleships at 25 km but when it comes to realistic battleship combat either u web the target for killing it either u or the target gets the fck out. Projected ECCM ftw. No sense in crippling your setup with ECCM mods when remote projecters work much better. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Marn Prestoc Minmatar The Black Mamba's	Posted - 2007.12.18 04:17:00 - [19] Originally by: Bellum Eternus To sum it up: 1445m/sec, 685 DPS tanked, 995 DPS with guns/drones @30km+, really easy on cap use, and relatively cheap to fit (all T2, no faction required). So what if you need some fitting mods, this thing is sick, even if it needs an RCU and grid rig. So, why should I get this expensive ship and use it over a Maelstrom with just as good a tank and damage. For the range? For the speed? With 2 extra rig slots (not needing the pg rig) I can fit 2 falloff rigs and get a similar range. I don't have the sensor strength problem either... so where is my extra ISK going? -
Horza Otho Minmatar Cosmic Fusion	Posted - 2007.12.18 04:31:00 - [20] Vargur. Translation: Hi i wish i was a Maelstrom. Marauders suck. Let drones use overheat too!

Horza Otho Minmatar Cosmic Fusion	Posted - 2007.12.18 04:34:00 - [21] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Swiftness pvp setup ? have fun getting owned by 3hornet ec-300 all i see is an expensive mael. In the wonderful land of sisi 1v1s it may sound awesome to kite battleships at 25 km but when it comes to realistic battleship combat either u web the target for killing it either u or the target gets the fck out. Projected ECCM ftw. No sense in crippling your setup with ECCM mods when remote projecters work much better. I wtb someone who would use a projected eccm over another module, since i don't have anyone else in my corp stupid enough to fit to boost my Vargur when we could go out in 2 Megathrons for less isk and more effectiveness. kthnx. Let drones use overheat too!
Laughing Mime Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.18 06:19:00 - [22] lol @ market manipulation attempt.
dust monkey Minmatar Dark Tornado Synchr0nicity	Posted - 2007.12.18 06:30:00 - [23] Originally by: Laughing Mime lol @ market manipulation attempt. QFT vargur is the least damaging of all minmatar battle ships \o/ YaY!!!! it my be able to hit out to 50km with barrage but who the hell cares unless your using autos to mission with? you say it can tank just under 700 dps? good luck in a pvp. where solo pvp is dead and you'll be primed, or just jammed and kill off the support then laugh at you. phoon much better at pvp. so is the tempest ( it can acturly use thoes last to high slots ) and a maelstrom can be fitted to have basicly the same tank ( due to the 1 more rig slot ) and 2x fall off rigs to get the same range. so these is no point EVER buying one of these unless you are a rich git and showing off.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.12.18 08:06:00 - [24] Originally by: Laughing Mime lol @ market manipulation attempt. Dammit. I've been found out. Seriously, forum ppl are fun to mess with. Very entertaining. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Tyr Zewa Caldari MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2007.12.18 08:46:00 - [25] Should buy some cheap ones now, in case ccp ever get a clue and buff these piles of ****. Giving the vargur 1k more grid would help alot already. But the problem doesn't just start there ......
Horza Otho Minmatar Cosmic Fusion	Posted - 2007.12.19 17:38:00 - [26] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Laughing Mime lol @ market manipulation attempt. Dammit. I've been found out. Seriously, forum ppl are fun to mess with. Very entertaining. Nice save. Let drones use overheat too!


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