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Kol Hauksness
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Posted - 2007.12.21 01:14:00 -
[1]
So, I was minding my own business, happily ratting away in a 0.6 system, when another player shows up in the same belt. I thought nothing of it. I had just killed two rats prior to his arrival, and was looting the wrecks. All of a sudden he starts blinking red on the overview and my ship auto-targets him. He starts jamming me and opens fire.
"Hm..." I think to myself.... "I should be able to survive until CONCORD shows up." I crank up my shield booster, web him, and fire back. About two minutes goes by and it's very clear that I'm not going to win this fight. Another minute and a half later I'm in a pod, and warp off. CONCORD never showed up in all of three and half minutes.
I've read several times that in 0.6 they usually don't take more than 30 sec to make an appearance, so what I'm wondering is: what exactly am I missing here? Is there some other detail I'm not aware of that kept them from helping me?
Note: my security status is positive, his was negative.
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Madcow
Minmatar
Madcow Manufac Corp
New Eden Research
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Posted - 2007.12.21 01:23:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Madcow on 21/12/2007 01:23:33
Either you picked up something from a yellow wreck and made yourself a free kill or he picked something from your wreck and made him a target for you and targetted you so you auto target back and then you shot him first or did some other attack move to him first and made it legal.
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I am just a crazy cow |
Valeo Galaem
New Eden Advanced Reconnaissance Unit
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Posted - 2007.12.21 01:23:00 -
[3]
What most likely happened is at some point he killed an NPC in your belt. You then ended up looting HIS wreck which flags you as a thief and allows him to attack you for 15 minutes. The wreck would have been yellow in this case, you would have gotten an theft warning (unless you already disabled it), and there would have been an aggression countdown timer in the upper left hand corner.
Thar be Pirates
You are not authorised to hack into CONCORD's mainframe
Your Wallet has been emptied!
CONCORD Encryption Methods |
Falka Lakadaka
Gallente
BakaLakadaka Street
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Posted - 2007.12.21 01:29:00 -
[4]
I can't say exactly what happened here, but I will say this:
TURN OFF AUTOTARGETTING - it will get you killed more times than it will save you!
Cheers
Falka
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Check out the Guides Sticky for answers to many questions |
Kol Hauksness
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Posted - 2007.12.21 01:45:00 -
[5]
Well, there weren't any previous wrecks in the belt when I got there.... but apparently I must have done something wrong.... 
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Durzel
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Posted - 2007.12.21 02:01:00 -
[6]
Is this what they mean by "flipping cans" ?
Also I thought that people only flashed red when they had actively targeted you. Is there a difference between targets you can legitimately attack, and targets that are about to attack you? (i.e. are locking, or have locked you)
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Asimov Andies
Gallente
Brotherhood of the Phoenix
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2007.12.21 02:24:00 -
[7]
Flipping a can has to do with jet cans, but it is the same principle. If you steal from someone else's wreck, this does not include salvaging, or jet can, you are flagged as a thief and the owner of the wreck or pod has kill rights. Concord does not act in this case. Concord will only act if you target and perform an aggressive act on another pilot, such as firing a weapon, or using some sort of electronic warfare, scanning there ship is not aggressive.
I am with the first couple responses, either you looted a wreck of his, which would appear as a yellow wreck instead of white, or, he looted one of yours and when your ship auto locked and he began blinking red, you hit something like your scrambler or turret before he did, meaning your fair game because you commenced your kill rights and he has a right to defend himself.
To further clarify situation two, imagine if you will a man steals your property in front of you and a cop, the cop tells you "You either fight him for it, or he keeps it."
The same cop tells the thief "You can not fight this guy. If he attacks you, you have the right to defend yourself."
This means he steals, you chose to fight back, he defends, he wins. The cop does not interfere anyway unless the either of you try to flat out kill, read pod, each other.
Hop that helps clarify the confusion
It's a Slanket, a blanket that has sleeves.
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Kol Hauksness
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Posted - 2007.12.21 02:50:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Asimov Andies
I am with the first couple responses, either you looted a wreck of his, which would appear as a yellow wreck instead of white, or, he looted one of yours and when your ship auto locked and he began blinking red, you hit something like your scrambler or turret before he did, meaning your fair game because you commenced your kill rights and he has a right to defend himself.
To further clarify situation two, imagine if you will a man steals your property in front of you and a cop, the cop tells you "You either fight him for it, or he keeps it."
The same cop tells the thief "You can not fight this guy. If he attacks you, you have the right to defend yourself."
This means he steals, you chose to fight back, he defends, he wins. The cop does not interfere anyway unless the either of you try to flat out kill, read pod, each other.
Hop that helps clarify the confusion
Ah, I think maybe your second idea there could be what happened. I don't recall doing anything to him before he started shooting me, but maybe I did something considered aggressive. He *was* right next to one of my loot cans when he started blinking, so maybe he did steal from me without me noticing. CONC doesn't respond to thieves? If not, that would explain it. I always figured if someone stole from me they would show up and beat him up for me. Man, now I just need to figure out what I did and not do it again 
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Durzel
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Posted - 2007.12.21 03:00:00 -
[9]
No, CONC doesn't respond to thieves - CONC only responds to "unauthorised aggression". He can steal anything he wants from your cans - you have the right to fight him if you choose (exercising your kill rights), or you can just ignore it.
If he had attacked you first then Concord would've been all over him like a rash, but as you (presumably) attacked him either with weapons, EWAR or anything else deemed aggressive in response to him stealing from you they stay out of it.
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Asimov Andies
Gallente
Brotherhood of the Phoenix
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2007.12.21 03:00:00 -
[10]
An easy thing to do to solve that is turn off Auto Targeting, and don't target any player in high sec space unless you have kill rights (Thief, previous attacker who podded you, or war target) AND have the INTENTION AND POWER to kill him. That as a rule, has kept my ships from falling to the same fate multiple times.
It's a Slanket, a blanket that has sleeves.
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Kol Hauksness
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Posted - 2007.12.21 03:09:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Asimov Andies
An easy thing to do to solve that is turn off Auto Targeting, and don't target any player in high sec space unless you have kill rights (Thief, previous attacker who podded you, or war target) AND have the INTENTION AND POWER to kill him. That as a rule, has kept my ships from falling to the same fate multiple times.
Yeah, I'll do just that. Thanks for the advice.
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Sicil Fioet
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.12.21 06:06:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Sicil Fioet on 21/12/2007 06:07:07
after you auto-targeted him, you probably activated some kind of a module that gave him the right to attack
i've done this mistake myself before - now I keep the auto-targeter option off
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ZerKar
Caldari
Zen'Tar
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Posted - 2007.12.21 10:24:00 -
[13]
There is an old glitch from what I understand where if someone steals from your can and then you take something out of it afterwards sometimes it flags you to them as having stolen as well. Making you both fair game for eachother. It may be that you were a victim of this issue. Suffice to say, if that is the case or not, do not take anything from a can or wreck is someone else has stolen from it. Just adbandon it altogether.
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I saw the Sign...!
O.o |
Durzel
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Posted - 2007.12.21 10:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: ZerKar
There is an old glitch from what I understand where if someone steals from your can and then you take something out of it afterwards sometimes it flags you to them as having stolen as well. Making you both fair game for eachother. It may be that you were a victim of this issue. Suffice to say, if that is the case or not, do not take anything from a can or wreck is someone else has stolen from it. Just adbandon it altogether.
The problem with that is that how can you know if something has been taken from it? The thief could've taken 1 unit of some ore and left the rest in there. Unless you're somehow able to keep track of the contents of all your cans, and they still all appear white to you, then basically what you're saying is you should assume that every single can may have been tampered with?
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Sandeep
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Posted - 2007.12.21 12:45:00 -
[15]
Originally by: ZerKar
There is an old glitch from what I understand where if someone steals from your can and then you take something out of it afterwards sometimes it flags you to them as having stolen as well. Making you both fair game for eachother.
Tested to be false, 5 minutes ago. Only the thief is flagged.
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Tip #243: There is a 30 seconds cool-off timer between most state changes (dock/undock/jump/explode/die/change ship/etc.) known as "Session change". |
Vivian Porter
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Posted - 2007.12.21 13:27:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Vivian Porter on 21/12/2007 13:28:22
OK. Just to emphasize a point.
Stealing your stuff - is a pirate tactic to get you to shoot at them.
The pirate probably DID NOT want the thing he took - what he wanted was for you to attack him - so he could blow you up.
This tactic - is the bread and butter of high sec pirates. They steal from your jet can if you are mining or they steal from your wrecks if you are ratting - all with the intention of goading you into attacking them - so they can blow you up.
If you are a new person - and see someone blinking red - ignore them and let them have whatever they stole. These guys have already looked at your info so they know how long you've been playing, used a ship scanner to size up your ship - and know they can beat you before hand.
And - don't think that just because you are in a bigger ship that you will be able to take them. If you could take them - unless they are incompetent pirates - they wouldn't have goaded you into attacking them in the first place.
Of course - there is also the two stage process to this. Here - you and maybe your buddy have some good ships & skills. Along comes this pesky little pirate who irritates you by stealing your stuff - so you - being able to take this guy - attack him. Ooops - here come his half dozen buddies in their battle ships who can now shoot at you because you attacked someone from their corporation ... All of which was NOT an accident. Those half dozen battleships didn't just happen to be in the vicinity. They were on the other side of a warp gate (so they wouldn't show up on local), just waiting for the 'bait' to tell them that you'd bit ...
High Sec is only *relatively* safer than Low Sec. All these pirates can do what they are doing in High Sec and not take a security hit. So - the fact that the guy had a 5.0 security rating - means NOTHING. A negative security rating is a warning about someone's characters - but a high security rating - isn't something to be reassured by ...
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Sandeep
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Posted - 2007.12.21 14:22:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Vivian Porter
so you - being able to take this guy - attack him. Ooops - here come his half dozen buddies in their battle ships who can now shoot at you because you attacked someone from their corporation
Not true. Only the attacked character can return fire. The only exception is when the attacked character is an outlaw (sec less than -5) according to this.
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Tip #243: There is a 30 seconds cool-off timer between most state changes (dock/undock/jump/explode/die/change ship/etc.) known as "Session change". |
Barashi Nugan
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.12.21 15:38:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sandeep
Originally by: Vivian Porter
so you - being able to take this guy - attack him. Ooops - here come his half dozen buddies in their battle ships who can now shoot at you because you attacked someone from their corporation
Not true. Only the attacked character can return fire. The only exception is when the attacked character is an outlaw (sec less than -5) according to this.
Correct. The usual tactic to get the corp to have aggro to you is with actual can flipping. Once the "mark" has flipped the can back, he's fair game to the entire corp.
If he simply attacks the can flipper, it does not give aggro rights to the can flipper's corp.
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Kol Hauksness
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Posted - 2007.12.21 18:20:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Vivian Porter
Edited by: Vivian Porter on 21/12/2007 13:28:22
The pirate probably DID NOT want the thing he took - what he wanted was for you to attack him - so he could blow you up.
Well, I hope he enjoys the radio S and fusion ammo he got.... 
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