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CCP: Please Make Zulupark PLAY THE GAME before he does anything else!

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Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.12.23 10:42:00 - [1] Edited by: Rells on 23/12/2007 10:43:50 Edited by: Rells on 23/12/2007 10:43:36 From a devchat log forwarded to me by a corp mate. Quote: Mindstar - But on to the question that was destined for Zulupark before he strangely disappeared from audio was the question about speed. Is it working as intended? Are ships too fast and what's up with the speed nerfof interdictors? Zulupark - There are many things up with speed. Personally and what were kinda discussing is stacking of speed mods. It's something we got to look into probably. Regarding interdictors themselves they were going really fast with proper fittings and it's ship that can bubble up huge amounts of space and it shouldn't be able to zoom in and out. Drop bubble, leave whole fleets into bubble and leave afterwards. Mindstar - Alright bubble up, indeed. On the question of the some of the other changes that are coming in the patch. Torpedoes saw massive change, they have been reduced in range and increased in damage. Is there anything happening with torpedoes? What exactly was the reasoning in particular behind the change? Zulupark - I'll just keep on going in here. I'm going to actually grab follow-up question "Isn't the intended role of interdictor to zoom about and drop bubbles". Yes the intended role is to drop bubbles, but it's not maybe in the intended role that they're so fast, that even with a specialized webbing ship, in the time it takes you to get a lock and activate your webifiers, even if the ship is at far end of your webbing range, that it could basically float at immense speed out of your webbing range again. That's just way too much. This is ... just .... OMG unbelievable. You read this and think "does this guy bloody play the game?" Zulupark wants to nerf interdictors because they zoom in and drop bubbles? That is what they are suppsed to do. What else are they going to do, drop the bubble and tank? I lost an interdictor once because I sneezed too hard in my pod once. They have the tank of a wet kleenex. Furthermore, his quote... Quote: Zulupark - ...snip... they're so fast, that even with a specialized webbing ship, in the time it takes you to get a lock and activate your webifiers, even if the ship is at far end of your webbing range, that it could basically float at immense speed out of your webbing range again. This is just patently false. There are any number of ways of catching an interdictor and if the GM will log on in his interdictor I will have my corp demonstrate a few for him. This last weekend I caught a sabre with a bunch of frigs and we have killed dozens of them in numerous methods. Im sorry for being brutal but its just sad seeing posts like this from someone working on this game. Sad and scary that they might be listened to. If the person in question doesn't have a tactical brain please don't let them anywhere near the code. This game is the most deep, tactically intensive game on the market and thoughts and musings like this will RUIN it into a blob gank and tank fest. I would highly suggest you send this guy to play the game for a few months and think about tactics and then try to come back and suggest things that actually need being done such as repairing the corp interface, repairing amarr and other hot issues. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.12.23 11:06:00 - [2] I'll offer Zulupark FREE PVP-BASIC class at any time and any alt he wants to take it on. Just PM me the alts name from the GM main. By taking the class perhaps he will realize there is more to the game than fitting guns and tank. God knows he needs the education. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.12.23 11:15:00 - [3] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 23/12/2007 11:05:21 nano ships are unbalaced. Nano ships are the new WCS. Lets be honest here - thats exactly what they are. A Dicter doing 10k/sec can drop bubble , get out of range and warp out before you even lock them in a sensor boosted rapier/huggin. And amarr lack rapier ships. We dont have enough mids and our tracking on lasers is almost half that of gallente. Anyone nano ship can tackle a Amarr bs for a laugh and the Amarr BS cannot win against a 10km/sec nanoship. Granted, the nanoship may not be able to kill the BS, but a gang of nanoships can - and thats whats killing pvp - everyone using WCS... Sorry, nano's to have risk free pvp. You, sir, should go BACK to empire and stay there until you can think tactically. Im sorry but there are poeple that are creative in this game that will take you apart. Come on up and try that stuff on AGONY and we will send you home on the express route. Now to the ... inaccuracies is the nicest word I can think of ... in this post. My corp has killed DOZENS of snaked 12k+ ships. We have killed all manner of nano ships in all sorts of ways. They are not that hard to kill if you use your head. Furthermore, the basic principles of gunnery ellude you in the extreme. I have popped 8k/s crows pursiung my 3k/s zealot. How? Skill at piloting and knowledge about gunnery. Amarr guns work completely different than projectiles and if you dont know basic combat piloting to make that work for you then the fault is yours, not the game. Finally, there is one ship that Vagas and Rapiers RUN from. They hate it. Its their bane of their life. The Curse, an Amarr ship since you dont seem to know them well, is lethal to any nano ship. Vagabonds wont come close to them on a dare. Neither will any interceptor with half a brain. As for the interdictor "zooming" in, if he gets within 40 of me, he will find himself totally empty of cap and me tackling him and dropping enough drones on him to ruin his day. That is one of HUNDREDS of ways to catch nano ships. The problem is that people like you only see the small picture. You only see that your Harbinger fitted with beams wasnt able to hit that orbiting ceptor or dictor and scream "nerf nerf, my big ship should be able to hit you." The reality is that you have limited, if any, tactical knowledge in the game and that is why you die. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.12.23 11:20:00 - [4] Originally by: The Herrick Don't interdictors use the interceptor as a prerequisite skill? Surely they should be fast then or am I being a noob again? You arent a noob. The interdictor's tank is its speed. You slow them down and they go down faster than an elevator with a broken cable. An interdictor can not do much more than bubble and fly. Its guns are fluff as people who hang out in range of an enemy in an interdictor find out. If you want to live in them, know your role. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.12.23 11:40:00 - [5] Originally by: Balooshinakus Originally by: Hertford You know something is wrong when your T2 MWD/Overdrive Flycatcher is slower than a T2 fitted rifter. Actually it's even worse then that. With my skills a Rifter with a t1 MWD, 1 t1 OD and 1 t1 nano, I go 3331m/s; with a flycatcher with a t2MWD, t2OD, and 2 polys I go 3307m/s. Yes, a t1 fitted rifter with 2 speed mods is faster than a dual poly t2 fitted Flycatcher. And they still didnt even change their mass so the flycatcher still takes longer to cold warp than most non-caldari cruisers. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.12.23 11:44:00 - [6] Originally by: Bruce Boyako Posting in a failure thread in which the OP has ignored the devs reasoning for the nerf, seen the words 'speed nerf' and failposted. Exactly how did I ignore their "reasoning" when I addressed everything they said. His "reasoning" was faulty on so many ways it is just astounding. Its like the "reasoning" of someone who knows nothing about tactics or piloting skills or the "reasoning" of a person empire bound without any idea of how real combat works. But the reality is that it is the "reasoning" of someone who knows little of the game other than pure numbers which reflect only a very small part of the picture. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.12.23 19:23:00 - [7] Originally by: Dorisane Originally by: Pitt Bull Originally by: Rells If the person in question doesn't have a tactical brain please don't let them anywhere near the code. This game is the most deep, tactically intensive game on the market and thoughts and musings like this will RUIN it into a blob gank and tank fest. Wow, you're clueless. You think pressing F1-F8 at an optimal range is a tactical game? Its a freakin' MMO for chists' sakes. You should try a different game, like an FPS or RTS. ^^ indeed. Beyond fitting the ship, there's about squatt tactical about eve. Maybe the odd warp here or trap laid down there, but thats about it. Alot of the precieved "tactical" aspect of eve is pretty shallow. That's just because you dont know anything about the game. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.12.23 22:10:00 - [8] Originally by: Sakura Nihil Here's the thing. Ultimately, the more speed you want, the more you have to pay for it. If you run into a Sabre doing 10 km/s, and you kill him, you deal some serious financial damage. These things are not that common. And there's a difference between a frigate or dictor going that speed and a BS - the latter needed a nerf, without a doubt, but don't destroy the main defenses of a critical fleet ship. Those BS doing that speed (3 or 4k per second) are quite easy to catch and have all the tank of a wet paper towel. Think out of the box. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.12.23 22:21:00 - [9] Edited by: Rells on 23/12/2007 22:22:16 Originally by: Gruxella The fact that nano ships can only be effectively countered by two ships in eve shows how speed has gone too far unless the pilot makes a stupid mistake. I applaud the devs for taking this step in the right direction. The fact that you make such a post is funny. It shows that you know nothing about the game or tactics within Eve. You can catch a snaked vagabond with a three ship tactic. You need an interdictor, any ship with two webs and any damage ship. How? You figure it out if you have a brain. There are many ships in the game that counter a vagabond. A Curse, Rapier, Hugin will kill them flat out. Neither a Vagabond nor any other ship would come within about 50km of my Curse. A Falcon will jam them and render them a spectator -- ditto for the Griffin, Blackbird, Scorpion and Kitsune. Three well flown interceptors will track him down and kil lhim or force him to run away. A sniping battleship will cream the vagabond at range. A single Maulus, Arazu or Lachesis will damp them down so far they cant target thier own shoelaces. A single crucifier or anyone else with tracking disruptors will make the ship effectively not there as its guns wont be able to hit anything. What do I do with a Vaga thats jammed, damped, tracked or so on? I ignore it. It might as well be some covops spectating in my fight. If I want to catch it, I get creative. Your problem is that your thinking is shallow, reminding me of one of those big dumb guys stereotyped in mobster movies that can think of nothing but "I am bigger, me should be able to pound you." The game is more than gank and tank. It is a game heavy on tactics and SKILLS of the pilots under your command. You, and Zulupark, clearly know nothing about this game. You fit up your ship and think combat is F1 through F8 and that is why people own you. The difference between you and those pilots frustrating you is that they know how to play and you should still be running missions for your academy agent in 1.0 space. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.12.23 22:23:00 - [10] Originally by: Dorisane Originally by: Rells Originally by: Dorisane Originally by: Pitt Bull Originally by: Rells If the person in question doesn't have a tactical brain please don't let them anywhere near the code. This game is the most deep, tactically intensive game on the market and thoughts and musings like this will RUIN it into a blob gank and tank fest. Wow, you're clueless. You think pressing F1-F8 at an optimal range is a tactical game? Its a freakin' MMO for chists' sakes. You should try a different game, like an FPS or RTS. ^^ indeed. Beyond fitting the ship, there's about squatt tactical about eve. Maybe the odd warp here or trap laid down there, but thats about it. Alot of the precieved "tactical" aspect of eve is pretty shallow. That's just because you dont know anything about the game. please dont troll. Its not trolling, its stating fact. Anyone who makes a statement like that knows nothing about eve. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.12.24 00:06:00 - [11] Originally by: Dorisane Edited by: Dorisane on 23/12/2007 22:55:25 Originally by: Rells Its not trolling, its stating fact. Anyone who makes a statement like that knows nothing about eve. you've not stated anything, nor made any argument. you're trolling. edit: im sorry if you've been offended somehow by the idea that the game revolves largly around cookie cutter setups used in exactly the same way 9 times out of 10 resulting in little more than rock-paper-sissors, but frankly, to me at least, it does. its not a flame against eve, but a ray of concern that this aspect of the game needs to improve in the future. Why should I be offended by something that is so horriobly uninfomred and false. That would be like being offended by some fool declaring the world is flat. You are just completely and utterly wrong, inunfomed and ignorant. Skedattle back to WoW or some other game more your mental speed. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.12.24 00:15:00 - [12] The fact that you have to use tactics and strategy and the other guy will try to use it as well reinforces, not detracts, from my point. The game should NEVER boil down to allowing the incompetent to defeat the skilled. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.12.24 00:28:00 - [13] Originally by: d026 Originally by: Rells The fact that you have to use tactics and strategy and the other guy will try to use it as well reinforces, not detracts, from my point. The game should NEVER boil down to allowing the incompetent to defeat the skilled. so what ueber skills/tactics/strategy do nano pilots use then? yeah 2 x poly + hg snakes.. hell of a masterplan dude:) Clearly you have never fought AGONY. We teach many of our tactics to students. If your idea of pvp is what you've expressed in this thread then the class could be beneficial to you. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.12.24 00:35:00 - [14] Edited by: Rells on 24/12/2007 00:35:44 Originally by: d026 Originally by: Rells Originally by: d026 Originally by: Rells The fact that you have to use tactics and strategy and the other guy will try to use it as well reinforces, not detracts, from my point. The game should NEVER boil down to allowing the incompetent to defeat the skilled. so what ueber skills/tactics/strategy do nano pilots use then? yeah 2 x poly + hg snakes.. hell of a masterplan dude:) Clearly you have never fought AGONY. We teach many of our tactics to students. If your idea of pvp is what you've expressed in this thread then the class could be beneficial to you. can i sign up with my alt?:) For the class? Feel free. No one in the class joins AGONY so its no security risk at all. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.12.26 07:47:00 - [15] Originally by: Evenfall Phoenix I agree, ZP is definitely not doing his job right. The dictor nerf was one of the most ******** things that could have been done to "fix speed." ZP, to "fix speed" here's a big hint... Snakes. They are what is controlling speed, not nano's, not overdrives, and most certainly not dictors base speed. Play the game... seriously. The problem is that the devs are totally out of touch with the game. They are hitting all of these "hot issues" that arent even hot. The pre-nerf Sabre is what all the other interdictors should have been. Now they have nerfed them all but guess what, the Sabre is still CLEARLY superior to the others. If they wish to nerf super speed ships then snakes could be looked at. However, the fact is that there are MUCH MUCM more pressing issues in the game. There are a Dozen ships who'se bonuses make no bloody sense at all (Gun/missile bonuses on covops and tanking bonuses on transports???). There are the problems that the Amarr ships face (having to fit solid cap gear just to fire their own guns for a start). There are problems with the corp interface, the idiocy around the specs of jump freighters, the role refinement of heavy interdictors, the relative poverty of a 80% of 0.0 space, the damaged role of supercapitals, and many more. This is not to mention all the buggs, memory leaks, graphics siezures of CPU time and so on. Zulupark is so far off the pressing issues in Eve and so badly misinformed about PvP in eve that he REALLY needs to play in a 0.0 organization about 3 months or more to get back in touch. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.12.26 07:56:00 - [16] Bah .. that was one of my scan alts above ... bloody forums. Originally by: Chronos VIII Originally by: Surreptitious Zulu sucks and should not have that job. Merry Xmas Zulu, I hope you get the flu. Syrup And you should be banned, because we are talking about a game here ffs Banned no, but I do agree that was a stupid thing to say. I want him to learn how things work in the game and make more studied suggestions. I have nothing but good wishes for a merry Christmas and good health for the person himself. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!

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