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Remove ALTS?

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Riffix	Posted - 2004.03.16 23:48:00 - [1] Well, the bottom line is that alts are not being used as the separate characters "to provide a different role-playing experience" as they are intended to be. They are basically being used by people to do things they wouldn't do with their main characters, cheating the system if you will. My question is, why not just remove them? Do we really need them? Or better yet, someone provide a good reason why we need them. Most people that I know who need a second character to actually get anything serious accomplished, just pay for a second account. Why not remove free alts and give people the ability to add characters to their account for and extra, say $5 US per month? Allow the charcters to be concurrently logged on. That way only people who seriously want another character will get them and it will be cheaper for those who want to have a second one. As far as I can tell there is no good reason to have ALTS and removing them would solve a lot of problems... "Lead, follow, or get the #@$@#$ out of the way"
Fetty Chico	Posted - 2004.03.16 23:56:00 - [2] Edited by: Fetty Chico on 16/03/2004 23:57:31 well alts can be.. THey are... well damn, I aint got no reason ta support em though it was funny ta see some fool try ta get me with a kesteral ------------------------------------------------ Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly - the ill deeds, along with the good - and let me be judged accordingly. If this world was supposed to be friendly CCP wouldnt have wasted time paying the devs to code so many weapons
Chuck Manzon	Posted - 2004.03.16 23:58:00 - [3] I somewhat agree, but it would be nice if there were multiple servers and we could have one each. I could definately live with it to thwart the abusers. You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy.
Macumba	Posted - 2004.03.17 00:03:00 - [4] Ridiculous. If you remove alts how will people spy, scam, scout, make bookmarks for fighting or post on the forums without getting flamed? You've clearly not thought this one through have you?
Lansfear	Posted - 2004.03.17 00:08:00 - [5] I know of several people, including myself, who have divided training time between all three characters to maxamize different sets of attributes, creating the most efficeint way to train certain skill "sets". If you remove the alts, they would have to give ALL skill points to one character. This means CCP would need to find out from each account which character the owner wants to keep and become the one. Not everyone uses their alts for evil. Only the loud ones.
Athule Snanm	Posted - 2004.03.17 00:33:00 - [6] Whilst alts don't appeal to me, I don't really think that they can be removed from the game at this stage and not even I am going to tell someone to not log in with their alt when they want to sell me something cheap using the trade window rather than jump 100 hops. On the other hand alts do seriously muck up the game, they spoil the atmosphere and are a key part of 99% of scams, semi-exploits and general griefing tactics. At the very least we should be able to tell if someone is an alt or not. What I suggest, to retain anonymity for those that wish it, is to display what % of skill points a character is from an account. That doesn't tell you how old that character is, who their other characters are or anything else - just enough so that you can tell if it's an alt and thus receive the appropriate amount of 'respect'. _______________________________ Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene!
Valan	Posted - 2004.03.17 00:41:00 - [7] Edited by: Valan on 17/03/2004 00:43:13 If ALTs are removed I want all my alt skill points transferring to my main character. Not doing will result in all 6 characters being deleted and a healthier credit card statement at the end of the month. Not that I think it will. But the way things have been going round here lately, you never know. EDIT : By all means give away of tracking to their associates.(main char). Its easy enough to roleplay the connection for those who it matters to.
Lysender	Posted - 2004.03.17 00:43:00 - [8] Edited by: Lysender on 17/03/2004 00:44:38 Quote: I know of several people, including myself, who have divided training time between all three characters to maxamize different sets of attributes, creating the most efficeint way to train certain skill "sets". If you remove the alts, they would have to give ALL skill points to one character. This means CCP would need to find out from each account which character the owner wants to keep and become the one. Not everyone uses their alts for evil. Only the loud ones. I agree. Not everyone is a Butthead.
Drutort	Posted - 2004.03.17 02:23:00 - [9] Quote: Well, the bottom line is that alts are not being used as the separate characters "to provide a different role-playing experience" as they are intended to be. They are basically being used by people to do things they wouldn't do with their main characters, cheating the system if you will. My question is, why not just remove them? Do we really need them? Or better yet, someone provide a good reason why we need them. Most people that I know who need a second character to actually get anything serious accomplished, just pay for a second account. Why not remove free alts and give people the ability to add characters to their account for and extra, say $5 US per month? Allow the charcters to be concurrently logged on. That way only people who seriously want another character will get them and it will be cheaper for those who want to have a second one. As far as I can tell there is no good reason to have ALTS and removing them would solve a lot of problems... LOL i have a reason MY SKILL POINTS and thats what i bought this game with 3 chars per account. you dont know if there are ppl who have spent quite a bit on there alts and maybe do use them for different things, you are going to say oh well too bad for those people? and the time trained what will happen to all of the time? and items and other stuff, like sec/standing/faction etc... support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Einheriar Ulrich	Posted - 2004.03.17 02:29:00 - [10] I need my alts, mainly because some of the jobs i need to do or specifik tasks i want other players ingame to do for me, without reaveling from where the orders cam. I use them to spy, wage war,trade, haul stuff, or simply to be able to quickly be other places in the galaxy, when im needed. If ccp should remove the ability to make alts i want all my other skillpoints, transferred to my main char, and if that happens, i think we need a new superclone, because the highest one we have now would not suffice. So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar. **Minion Of VOTF**
Asimir Kurdugal	Posted - 2004.03.17 02:51:00 - [11] Kill the alts! ________________________________________________ Moving again, comfort of the chase Now and again, this my saving grace Dead on the inside, I've got nothing to prove Keep me alive and give me something to lose I've been gone so long, but I will come back I will come back for you
NeoMorph	Posted - 2004.03.17 02:58:00 - [12] Remove Alts??? NOT.... GONNA.... HAPPEN.... Seriously though... There is no freakin' way they will remove alts. My alts each have a purpose whether they are combat, miner/hauler/refiner and pure researcher/builder. Having specialists like that mean that when my combat character is away from home base and someone asks for ???? to be built I can hop onto the builder alt and do it right away. Another fact you might want to think on is that Ultima Online has 5 chars per account... Eve gets off with 2 less. ------------------------------------------- <Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode <Stavros> was a honda gold wing <Ak-Gara> hah <Stavros>
Syllke Aronstein	Posted - 2004.03.17 04:16:00 - [13] Edited by: Syllke Aronstein on 17/03/2004 04:17:00 I would praise CCP so highly for removing alts from the game, they are the biggest pain in the butt and 99% of the time are used purely for scamming and cheating. It isnt going to happen, because the very people who use the alts for this purpose will protest against it. I would instead like too have a feature that enable an agent to trace the ''associates'' of a char so you can find out who that chars''s alts are, and therefor have a better clue as to who you are dealing with.
Imperishable	Posted - 2004.03.17 05:17:00 - [14] I don't like alts. I'm playing just 1 character
cashman	Posted - 2004.03.17 05:39:00 - [15] I'm using an alt as a rd-agent-doer... ____________________________________ »»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
Kaledon Brown	Posted - 2004.03.17 06:30:00 - [16] Your beating a dead horse with this issue I would just try and get over it and do what your enemy does. If anything should be changed its the ability to train 2 chars on one account at the same time which would give people with only one account some flexability. Removing alts is never going to happen.
Drutort	Posted - 2004.03.17 06:50:00 - [17] Quote: Edited by: Syllke Aronstein on 17/03/2004 04:17:00 I would praise CCP so highly for removing alts from the game, they are the biggest pain in the butt and 99% of the time are used purely for scamming and cheating. It isnt going to happen, because the very people who use the alts for this purpose will protest against it. I would instead like too have a feature that enable an agent to trace the ''associates'' of a char so you can find out who that chars''s alts are, and therefor have a better clue as to who you are dealing with. LOL you guys are looking at the wrong solution to those problems... everyone in eve just about knows about the ideas and alternatives such as showing the alts that are linked with the account name or just have each char show the other 2 alts... so you couldnt tell which is really main or alt... but you would see the other 2 always including duh the one you are looking at... so you would look at say mine and then would see my other 2 chars... and if i log on to one of the alts you would then see drutort and the other alt etc... that is the most down to "eve" solution for alts, the removal of alts is not even any were close to an idea or something that would ever happen, if so it would probably be a first in MMO history and would create way too much bad RP for eve/ccp not to mention losing players/customers support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.03.17 07:47:00 - [18] Don't remove alts. Just remove the ability to do the things we HATE about alts. That wold be much simpler. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Neslo	Posted - 2004.03.17 07:52:00 - [19] Quote: Well, the bottom line is that alts are not being used as the separate characters "to provide a different role-playing experience" as they are intended to be. Bull Crap... I have one that is a general overall character and my only other alt is trained to level 5 in science skills so that i can have a scientist working on BPs and a general character. If you get rid of alts then you will have people like me that will quit because of stupid requests like this... unless you give me that skill time in my main character of my choosing. Otherwise just because Riffix is limited in thinking of what to do with his alts in a CONSTRUCTIVE manner... grrr... crap like this steams me. From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust....
Jarjar	Posted - 2004.03.17 08:06:00 - [20] Quote: If ccp should remove the ability to make alts i want all my other skillpoints, transferred to my main char, and if that happens, i think we need a new superclone, because the highest one we have now would not suffice. Uh, you have more than 19.2M total skillpoints on the same account? Not bad, I don't think I've seen anyone with 13M or more yet.
Lysithea	Posted - 2004.03.17 08:15:00 - [21] Alts are part of the game. Get over it. Some people use their alts to do meaningful stuff in places their main characters can't be. I have one doing production, one doing mining in deep space, and one doing agents.
Adriana	Posted - 2004.03.17 10:25:00 - [22] I think the best ideas I have heard here are allowing you to train up alts at the same time as your main, and allowing you to see who the other characters on the account are. The second item would drastically reduce the scamming going on. Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. -Napoleon Bonaparte
Miso	Posted - 2004.03.17 10:33:00 - [23] Alts were the biggest mistake CCP made with this game. There should have been one char at roll-up from the start. Alts have caused more trouble in this game than anything else and continue to be a pain in my ass. I'd love to see them deleted immediately. Nominate a main, the rest get wiped. But thats not going to happen. What we are left with is a mess. I look forward to seeing how CCP are going to rectify alt war dec'ers, alt corp theives and alt trolls and griefers. Miso x -------------------------------------------- Dead
Khull	Posted - 2004.03.17 12:07:00 - [24] I use my alts to help me with market trading and hauling, as though they were trade partners. so i place my two alts in neighbouring systems so i can check the market and maybe send them off somewhere to fetch something at a good price. This means im treating them all as valid characters even if only one of them is training skills. if i need to take something somewhere dangerous i use an alt because there is less to loose if i have to get a new clone. So in all im using all tree characters for the same purposes but two of them are 'junior' members of my small corp. I agree that it is open to scamming and bad use, but not everyone does this and it would effect a lot of peoples gameplay if they were removed.
Inconstant Moon	Posted - 2004.03.17 12:17:00 - [25] banning alts for everyone would be a rather blunt approach. how about, when a complaint of griefing is raised against a player, and it is investigated and upheld, then that player's alt slots are disabled. sort of a semi-banning; easier to hand out and only affects the guilty players.
Toran Mehtar	Posted - 2004.03.17 12:35:00 - [26] To remove alts now would be totally impossible to administer fairly. Why not just apply penalties for 'misuse' of alts. Those people using alts to grief/scam generally create an alt specifically for the purpose. I'd make it so that you cannot train ANY character whilst an alt is being deleted, therefore penalising those who regularly create new alts, but having no penalty to those who use alts for 'genuine' purposes. I'd also consider increasing the time it takes to delete an alt (maybe to 48 hours).
Xavier Arron	Posted - 2004.03.17 15:06:00 - [27] Edited by: Xavier Arron on 17/03/2004 15:13:37 Remove all ALTS :) Quote: LOL i have a reason MY SKILL POINTS and thatÆs what i bought this game with 3 chars per account. you donÆt know if there are ppl who have spent quite a bit on there alts and maybe do use them for different things, you are going to say oh well too bad for those people? Quote: I use my alts to help me with market trading and hauling, as though they were trade partners. so i place my two alts in neighbouring systems so i can check the market and maybe send them off somewhere to fetch something at a good price. This means im treating them all as valid characters even if only one of them is training skills. if i need to take something somewhere dangerous i use an alt because there is less to loose if i have to get a new clone. Quote: Alts are part of the game. Get over it. Some people use their alts to do meaningful stuff in places their main characters can't be. I have one doing production, one doing mining in deep space, and one doing agents. LOL these are exactly all the things you are not supposed to be doing with alts. If you want to play the game in a totally different style and keep the alt separate then fine, but no one does this. Using alts so you donÆt have to travel back to do agent missions or research or not risk your main char!! is NOT what alts are supposed to be used for, and spoils the game. Add on the fact that alts are the reason there are so many griefers / exploits / scams in this game due to the fact that peeps donÆt have to "risk" there main char. Therefore is no come back, and thus most things can be done risk free. I have a long list of grievances against alts, not to mention the peeps who have one char for combat, one for mining / corp / one for research. Sure you can come attack me with your combat alt, disrupt my mining / research whatever but i canÆt attack your mining ops because your alt is in a different corp (i.e. you dont know who is attacking you). I feel this also probably effects pirates abilities to "pirate" as it were because peeps are willing to just sacrifice alts, instead of have to use there main chars which probably have implants etc... Alts in principle were a good idea. Allow peeps to play many different aspects of the game etc... In practice I believe they have turned out to be one of the devs biggest mistakes. Alts could be removed, just allow all skill points to be re-allocated to one character by the player. Just my 2 isk's worth:)
EvilDoomer	Posted - 2004.03.17 15:16:00 - [28] Quote: Ridiculous. If you remove alts how will people spy, scam, scout, make bookmarks for fighting or post on the forums without getting flamed? You've clearly not thought this one through have you? I have to agree. We need at least 1 alt. Thanks EvilDoomer Chicago Mobsters Ghost Fleet Pilot
EveJunkie	Posted - 2004.03.17 15:25:00 - [29] This is a hard one. Though I agree alts are often used for really lame stuff I've got a problem with removing them as I actually use my alts and train them acordingly. I've got 3 accounts so have a few mains and quite alot of alts too. I've got alts in newbie corps that i help to teach newbies with and provide cover for newbie miners with. I've got an rp alt that i really enjoy. I've even got a naughty alt that i frigate PvP with. (No not ganknig indi's with a kestrel in yulai thats lame) If CCP do want to remove them they they'd have to credit me with the training time as I've got millions of skill points invested on my alts. I wouldnt mind if they did this for the greater good of the game but it would limit my game enjoyment a bit not to mention it would be hard choosing which of my chars to send to the biomass recycler. I recon CCP would be better off fixing the game mechanics that these alts are using to cause problems rather than just removing the ability for multiple chars.
Miriel Arkonis	Posted - 2004.03.17 15:49:00 - [30] Quote: I know of several people, including myself, who have divided training time between all three characters to maxamize different sets of attributes, creating the most efficeint way to train certain skill "sets". If you remove the alts, they would have to give ALL skill points to one character. This means CCP would need to find out from each account which character the owner wants to keep and become the one. Not everyone uses their alts for evil. Only the loud ones. Exactly ! All 3 of my characters serve a different purpose and in no case is it to "cheat" in any way.

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