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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
Fetty Chico
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Posted - 2004.03.17 22:32:00 -
[31]
yet again no one asked about when sec standing will be fixed
------------------------------------------------
Tell my tale to those who ask.
Tell it truly - the ill deeds, along with the good - and let me be judged accordingly.
If this world was supposed to be friendly
CCP wouldnt have wasted time paying the devs to code so many weapons |
Morkalum Takor
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Posted - 2004.03.17 22:33:00 -
[32]
I concur. The players hogged too much of the time on comments rather than asking more questions. (Was looking forward to see what monkeywrench question Morkt was going to throw in there.) Comments need to be handled differently and the heavy personal opinions left out.
It was good to see that the devs came out with some interesting ideas to add due to players asking questions, though.
Unfortunate, that the Dev's could not answer fast to some questions.
Questions need a size limit...
Placing game dynamics responsibility into the players' hands is just looking for trouble. People will do ANYTHING to benefit themselves, their corporation, and their allies/friends, not for the benefit of the game as a whole.
And respect on both sides of the playing field. Bringing annoyance and bitter attitude to a CSM from either side, makes for a bad session. Been seeing that attitude in the past few CSM''s.
"There's more than one side to a story..."-Reporter for the InterCorp Courier Enterprises |
kieron
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Posted - 2004.03.17 23:52:00 -
[33]
I've been reading this (and the other CSM thread) most of the morning. I do realize that there are improvements that need to be made to the CSM format. Skaz was kind enough (and more to the point, beat me to it) in starting a poll to determine what the majority of the player base desires in the CSM format.
There are 2 CSMs left in this cycle. After the session where a patch was applied in the middle of the CSM, I decided to add an additional session to this cycle.
When this cycle is over, the Devs and I will discuss the feedback in the format poll and announce the new format for the next CSM cycle (CSM7).
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2004.03.17 23:56:00 -
[34]
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Hakera
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Posted - 2004.03.18 00:10:00 -
[35]
may I suggest that the CSM is of two parts...
Submiited Q's by community:
Questions submitted by poll or vote amongst reps and mailed to CCP - answers are posted back on the forums (this was done once where a CSM was missed) and the answers were in depth and a lot better from the devs.
This allows for good community discussion as well and feedback on the answers or comments etc.
The CSM
A Q&A on the spot as now format, maybe make it more open discussion rather than the whol eturn thingy and maybe concentrate on just a few set Q's for the session?
You could time the release of the answers to the forums to be like a day before the CSM maybe... so that would give time for feedback and create some q's for CSM???
Eve Fansite Dev chats
I think Lotta and others were looking at having the 'Fansite chat' regularly like every 6 weeks on irc.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Leitari
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Posted - 2004.03.18 00:14:00 -
[36]
... Moving to Iceland are we Kieron? Well I hope you'll enjoy it here, the nightlife is fantastic if you're into that. Im sure the bunch at CCP will introduce you to BrennivÝn (liquor) and such stuff..... Shark... sheepsballs..... am I forgetting something?
Here, Only the silent survive.
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Caleb Ayrania
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Posted - 2004.03.18 00:39:00 -
[37]
 Quote:
My only complaint is that Caleb is a timehog, would love for him to shut his dunghole for two seconds so we could get a couple more questions in.
In fact, the whole thing with the @ comments is BS, if you want to comment on a previous question, you should have to use your own question time. The @ commentary is just an excuse for people who love to hear themselves yap yap yap (like Caleb) to get in their two cents (or in Caleb's case, $200,000) at every opportunity and on every subject.
Caleb, please for the love of Jesus H., SHUT THE HELL UP.
Well I could rettribute the same about yourself here, but instead I will try asking you to read through the CSM and the earlier ones, and take into consideration the actual content of my comments and maybe the replies from the devs. This CSM if you didnt actually read it, one of these remarks was actually taken into consideration and might actually have an impact on the new features entering the game. That is why discussion is better then the Q&A some people want. To the community in general I would admit I did comment a bit more than usual this time, I will try to control myself in the future and only do so when important or there is time (which there actually never is taken all the patching and meetings into account but hey thats life I guess)
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Ganja
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Posted - 2004.03.18 00:52:00 -
[38]
Quote:
Quote:
My only complaint is that Caleb is a timehog, would love for him to shut his dunghole for two seconds so we could get a couple more questions in.
In fact, the whole thing with the @ comments is BS, if you want to comment on a previous question, you should have to use your own question time. The @ commentary is just an excuse for people who love to hear themselves yap yap yap (like Caleb) to get in their two cents (or in Caleb's case, $200,000) at every opportunity and on every subject.
Caleb, please for the love of Jesus H., SHUT THE HELL UP.
Well I could rettribute the same about yourself here, but instead I will try asking you to read through the CSM and the earlier ones, and take into consideration the actual content of my comments and maybe the replies from the devs. This CSM if you didnt actually read it, one of these remarks was actually taken into consideration and might actually have an impact on the new features entering the game. That is why discussion is better then the Q&A some people want. To the community in general I would admit I did comment a bit more than usual this time, I will try to control myself in the future and only do so when important or there is time (which there actually never is taken all the patching and meetings into account but hey thats life I guess)
You managed to waste 45% of the CSM on a mining discussion. Very helpful.
When something you pushed for so very hard comes ingame - let us know, until then - here's some duct tape.
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Caleb Ayrania
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Posted - 2004.03.18 01:22:00 -
[39]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
My only complaint is that Caleb is a timehog, would love for him to shut his dunghole for two seconds so we could get a couple more questions in.
In fact, the whole thing with the @ comments is BS, if you want to comment on a previous question, you should have to use your own question time. The @ commentary is just an excuse for people who love to hear themselves yap yap yap (like Caleb) to get in their two cents (or in Caleb's case, $200,000) at every opportunity and on every subject.
Caleb, please for the love of Jesus H., SHUT THE HELL UP.
Well I could rettribute the same about yourself here, but instead I will try asking you to read through the CSM and the earlier ones, and take into consideration the actual content of my comments and maybe the replies from the devs. This CSM if you didnt actually read it, one of these remarks was actually taken into consideration and might actually have an impact on the new features entering the game. That is why discussion is better then the Q&A some people want. To the community in general I would admit I did comment a bit more than usual this time, I will try to control myself in the future and only do so when important or there is time (which there actually never is taken all the patching and meetings into account but hey thats life I guess)
You managed to waste 45% of the CSM on a mining discussion. Very helpful.
When something you pushed for so very hard comes ingame - let us know, until then - here's some duct tape.
Well apperantly you failed to see the discussion actually was more on the topic of the frigs not being usefull anymore. A theme that has been turned on boards for ages. I just used the mining frig as an example. If you failed to catch on that you really should refrain from commenting in such a personal manner. I was actually trying to voice something alot have been very interested in getting to the devs attention. As Tyrias Q also touched. If you read it through again you might actually notice that the long (admitted) discussion actually seemed to make an impact on the devs thinking.. and a rather nice promise about actually taking it for a new spin on the whole ship balancing issues...
So quit poking me for doing what was actually needed and wanted from the community in the first place.
This particular subject isnt even something I care much about, just goes to show what you get for actually bringing stuff to the CSM on other peoples account.. Well will remember to keep on my own agenda in the future considering I have to take a personal hit like this.. ( oh and so nice to have such civil folks commenting with such great content .. letting your frustrations out on the CSM delegates is so constructive.. good job!)
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.03.18 01:53:00 -
[40]
Quote:
LMAO
truth be told the CSM's are getting worse and worse...
on top of that i was eagerly waiting for morkt's question and he didnt get to ask one ...pld
The question was found flaoting in deep space, a dessicated husk of a question, withered and battered by micro-meteorites and background radiation.
CONCORD scientist couldn't estimate its true age but said:
"It's old, very, very, very, very old.... it's been out there since, possibly, the first of this round of the CSMs!"
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2004.03.18 01:59:00 -
[41]
Caleb,
I am not attacking your substantive contributions to the community or to the CSM chat. But based on this CSM log which OF COURSE I read (I do every week), I am further convinced that the @ system of commenting is retarded. I am all for a discussion, but the discussion should be between the Developer who is answering the original question, and the person who asked the question.
If you want your two cents to be heard on a subject, then use your own question time to talk about it further with the dev. But seriously, SO much time was wasted in this CSM meeting by endless comments. I am sure certain of your fellow delegates, though wouldn't admit publicly, certainly feel the same way.
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2004.03.18 02:14:00 -
[42]
Quote:
SO much time was wasted in this CSM meeting by endless comments. I am sure certain of your fellow delegates, though wouldn't admit publicly, certainly feel the same way.
Yes they would, have, did and will continue to do so whilst this CSM style debate rages ...
MOOrovingian  "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Caleb Ayrania
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Posted - 2004.03.18 02:16:00 -
[43]
I would tend to agree on the problems with the @ system as it is now. Allthough there really is a lot to gain from it.
The major reasons for it failing is not the system as such but more everything else. To long responsetimes which is to often imo.
To many unexpected things like patchings throwing the delegates, or meetings cutting the CSM short. Preoccupation elsewhere while in the meeting.
Interuptions of topic which totally makes the system look useless. The fact that the CSM delegates sometimes seem to not even care what was said earlier and repeating topics allready touched and answered rather fully.
Having to try and keep both civil and critical without going all out in an attack on the devs for specific issues.
Not having a forum here to discuss and post before meetings that is moderated so its strictly on topic and no interuptions and long comments not relevant in there.
Not having a forum or even a topic the devs and volunteers are expected to use regularly. Moderation for forums to back the rules setup allready.
Having to try and point out topics to the devs when they tend to avoid some topics both here and in CSM.
Using the time efficiently when ther eare thing you know have been asked and avoidingly answered before, and still refrain from making it a weekly atteck the devs meeting..
If you have solutions that fix all these things feel free to share them, I know I will take any valuable feedback into my considerations, and I am sure that Kieron will be having his eyes on solutions to all these things as well. this and these problems is in part why there is currently a poll running that mgiht alltogether end the chance to chat with devs.
Well trying to defend myself, I know its moving out of the topic of the thread .. soz..
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.03.18 04:01:00 -
[44]
Quote:
I am sure certain of your fellow delegates, though wouldn't admit publicly, certainly feel the same way.
It's a bag of Fedo-droppings atm and only half as tasty.
Opinions will differ vastly, but I've always seen the CSM as the ideal place to raise flags on spotlight player concerns, bugs and ultra-high-profile issues of the day/week/month.
In "Ye Olden Dayes" we ,the reader, would rejoice whenever TomB said "I didn't even know that was an issue!", knowing it would at least now be resolved.
Nowadays it seems we get the "Life and Times of CCP" and "Hellmars Adventures with a Mining Laser".
Now I'm not saying that's not of high interest to some folks, but I'd still prefer to have had time to ask WTH the promsied action on my question of last week still hasn't had a flipping thing done about it a whole week later when it seems like such an easy fix?.
Because, in the old days, the CSM achieved things, didn't matter if 99% of it was "SoonÖ", it also got bugs resolved or issues spotlighted and things actioned.
Nowadays its more like a WI meeting, without the naked calenders with soothing music, whalesong and Hellmar trying rub Gallente scent over everybodies bruised ego's.
Sorry, but I'd rather he called me a plonker, threw slaver spew at me so long as we got something tangible achieved.
I don't want a fireside dev chat - seen hundreds, been at a fair few in person and can't say as they get me much excited anymore...with or without Hellmars Special Gallente Massage Oils.
"This doesn't work - do you know about it, when will you fix it?"
It's not rocket science. (IMO)
./end.@!./ (whatever)
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Roulette
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Posted - 2004.03.18 04:29:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Roulette on 18/03/2004 04:33:25
Quote:
In "Ye Olden Dayes" we ,the reader, would rejoice whenever TomB said "I didn't even know that was an issue!", knowing it would at least now be resolved.
Unless you come across the rare "I wasn't aware of this Issue" muttered 2 weeks in a row by TomB about an issue he said the same about the previous week and promised a fix with the DCM induction to TQ 'soonÖ'..
Quote:
Nowadays it seems we get the "Life and Times of CCP" and "Hellmars Adventures with a Mining Laser".
You've obviously never had to sit thru one of Pann's "stories from the farm". Ask me why my Megathron is named 'Corny Toots' sometime ;)
Quote:
It's not rocket science. (IMO)
But it *is* Rocket Surgery
Oh!! and if you think you've got it bad with Caleb interrupting, try doing one of these with Lotta interjecting 30 minutes of comment every single question :) I think our longest CSM hit 6 hours. I think Jash is *still* mad at her ;)
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.03.18 04:48:00 -
[46]
Quote:
Edited by: Roulette on 18/03/2004 04:33:25
Oh!! and if you think you've got it bad with Caleb interrupting, try doing one of these with Lotta interjecting 30 minutes of comment every single question :) I think our longest CSM hit 6 hours. I think Jash is *still* mad at her ;)
Contrary to popular belief, I'm a very very very difficult man to anger. I savor the experience far too much to indulge in too frequent real ventings (usually of people's spleens, livers and have gone for the odd lung or two).
That said, simple reminder:
There is an ingame gag. Use it
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Roulette
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Posted - 2004.03.18 04:50:00 -
[47]
Quote:
Contrary to popular belief, I'm a very very very difficult man to anger. I savor the experience far too much to indulge in too frequent real ventings (usually of people's spleens, livers and have gone for the odd lung or two).
That said, simple reminder:
There is an ingame gag. Use it
lol! so you *are* still mad at her =D
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.03.18 07:51:00 -
[48]
Quote:
Quote:
Contrary to popular belief, I'm a very very very difficult man to anger. I savor the experience far too much to indulge in too frequent real ventings (usually of people's spleens, livers and have gone for the odd lung or two).
That said, simple reminder:
There is an ingame gag. Use it
lol! so you *are* still mad at her =D
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
McWatt
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Posted - 2004.03.18 08:44:00 -
[49]
some thx first:
questions in big letters is a good idea.
special thx for this comment: "Tusko Hopkins > Dont dodge the quesion please."
i ll skip comments on the log itself, it s barely worth discussion and give some input in the "csm-style" topic.
just one last point: is mining the most important issue at hand?
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2004.03.18 09:56:00 -
[50]
Personally I find a lot of the whining during the CSM rather pointless - last week it was 'castor was rubbish' from someone and this time a moan about everything being promises and no action. Well of course people are entitled to those opinions - but is the CSM really the place to raise them? Is the point of the thing just about throwing the occasional tomato at the dev team as a way of letting off steam. It all gets a bit tiresome.
As far as I can tell there are two many delegates, given that the convos seem to be going tortuously slowly 15 min or so over 2 hours per delegate is too little. Maybe the numbers should be cut in half so that everyone can have a proper convo and the delegates rotated more frequently.
As to the mining stuff, well it doesn't interest me but it's clearly of interest to large numbers of people in EVE so I don't see it being a problem that it's in there. Most patches and rebalances are about combat related things so it's hardly the case that they don't receive any attention.
Maybe what they should do is do 2 things, firstly set up a thread where anyone can ask questions. A polaris person after a set date locks the thread then combines similar questions and removes flamey and whiney ones. The resultant list gets voted on and the top 10 questions receive a written response via the website. Secondly they could retain the CSM sessions, but reduce the number of delegates by at least half then rotate them every other session. Those CSMs could then be a detailed discussion of a limited range of issues rather than trying to cover everything in the game (or being seen as needing to). Combining these two methods I think would give both the chance to reflect what the most pressing issues are (via the voting) and the chance to discuss things in depth (the csm) - and of course really vital issues could be brought up in both.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Cobalt Digger
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Posted - 2004.03.18 17:00:00 -
[51]
well I had a look at the csm
the scanner issue wasnt that important and all you have to do is right click in space if you want a station or a belt or a bookmark
The noob mining situation could be solved with a bookmarked asteroid 1 rock its not like a battleship will chase 1 asteroid foating in space (if there was barely an indy load in it) just like a pirate log drop or the agent mission bookmark or single asteroids around moons at various distances
The drone issue could be solved by mining corps giving away Standard mining drones instead of shuttles and level 4s giving away advanced ones
The dedicated mining ship
mimitar Mammoth with 3 turret points No Speed or cargo bonus but the with a huge cargo bay and the 5% bonus to mining amount and -60% mining laser capacitor use
Gallante one could be a vexor type cruiser and allow +2 extra mining drone per skill level so you could command 20 max drones (oh it would have only 1 turret slot)
5% bonus to mining amount +2 extra mining drone per skill
Amarr just the same as the mimitar but with smaller cargo bay but Immune to the effects of the Mercoxite cloud and heavy armour
5% bonus to mining amount and -60% mining laser capacitor use
Caldari 3 mining laser hard points but 2 missile hardpoints for defenders real good sheilding 5% bonus to mining amount and -60% mining laser capacitor use
there all issues fixed
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Sara Kerrigan
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Posted - 2004.03.18 22:22:00 -
[52]
Balance amongst the delegates in terms of their roles in the game is a must. It is unfair that there is not a single pirate representative, though many applied and were rejected. Look at how many of the questions on this chat pertained to mining and trading, without addressing such important issues as security status.
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The Kerrigan Chronicles |
Havocide
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Posted - 2004.03.18 23:06:00 -
[53]
Use IRC, use moderate on the channel and only voice each person as they ask their question.
Stop these followup questions they take up far too much time, make sure they have their questions pretyped etc.
That CSM was a joke
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.03.19 12:02:00 -
[54]
TomB - u no good luyer! 
Comunity were for the retweaking Guns hitting mechaniks!!
Make Signature Radius count something!!
A ammo that got diameter of 10 year old child (1400mm)
just cant hit a smallest frigs in game
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Skaz
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Posted - 2004.03.20 15:39:00 -
[55]
Quote:
I've been reading this (and the other CSM thread) most of the morning. I do realize that there are improvements that need to be made to the CSM format. Skaz was kind enough (and more to the point, beat me to it) in starting a poll to determine what the majority of the player base desires in the CSM format.
There are 2 CSMs left in this cycle. After the session where a patch was applied in the middle of the CSM, I decided to add an additional session to this cycle.
When this cycle is over, the Devs and I will discuss the feedback in the format poll and announce the new format for the next CSM cycle (CSM7).
LOL I had to contribute something after all I didn't even get to ask a question 
"No, I'm not alt.....even if I have been in Pator Tech School for 2 years..." |
Jake Pliskin
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Posted - 2004.03.20 18:16:00 -
[56]
<lol> i've been away for a while, coming back i see nothings changed.
i only have a brief comment to make at this time
get rid of the CSM's (current format)
just have a Q&A session, where the questions are submitted to a group of devs or employees of CCP, and post up their answers on a site (This cuts out the chitty chat, as i heard someone describe it) |
Xhanserbal
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Posted - 2004.03.20 21:38:00 -
[57]
ccp need to be more proactive instead of reactive. They should poll us each week asking us what we want and how we want the game to progress. This could be done easily through voting booths in stations. once a week they put up a set of options for use to rank in importance. That way ccp can see how the population think and find out whats really important.
As for the style of csm i think all the questions should be sumbitted to ccp before the meeting. During the meeting ccp should answer the questions one by one, in between giving time for the delegates to discuss the answers. However before ccp answer the questions they should go over what they promised in the last csm and say what progress they have made to completing said tasks. For example nobody has chased hellmar up on the corporation tools devblog, its been nearly 3 weeks since he said he would post it.
Overview of a csm style
1. Review Last weeks meeting actions
2. Answer submitted questions and discuss
3. Point out bugs that are needing fixes
4. ccp make action list from meeting with ETA other than soon
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Riddari
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Posted - 2004.03.21 00:52:00 -
[58]
I think everyone misunderstood the comment that was made about the stations in the scanner.
Both the Devs, other delegates and people here clearly don't understand what the question was about.
I think I understood it correctly as I've had this annoy me, it is when you IN THE SCANNER (not the right click in space or click the == thingie) sort items in solarsystem by type then you will not get all the stations listed together since their types are "Amarr Station" (appearing near top) and down to "Minmatar Station" (appearing somewhere low on list or middle).
I'm pretty sure this is what was being requested, and it goes for ships too (Apocalypse, Wreathe). Personally I agree that I want to see all the ships adjacent to each other when the list is sorted by type, not appearing amongst other celestial objects.
¼©¼
a history |
cmdrattus
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Posted - 2004.03.22 19:46:00 -
[59]
* Hellmar thinks that most of the soonÖ bashing is because we are just so forthcoming about what is being worked on and what is in the pipes. EVE is probably the MMO that has developed most post launch so we have already delivered a lot but players often loose sight of that in the eye of the storm
dveloped most post launch yeah because the game is just coming out of beta
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Orestes
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Posted - 2004.03.24 13:59:00 -
[60]
Desticked
Join the IC! |
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