Originally by: Zeknichov

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To be blunt Rigo it is of my opinion you shouldn't be playing EVE. EVE was never meant as a PvE game, it was meant as a PvP game and the PvEers are ruining the game. Empire should only be a place where defeated PvPers attempt to regain some strength to leave and return to 0.0.

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Originally by: Phyrr

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I see no one bothered to read my post.

More low sec for me to exploit

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Originally by: Thorek Ironbrow

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Edited by: Thorek Ironbrow on 29/12/2007 12:09:02
I reckon if they made gate turrets actually instapop almost all ships as if they were rookie ships, then a lot more people would go into low security because they'd actually be able to get there!

When I was new, I used to venture into 0.4 in my Caracal a lot to try and rat. The problem was, there were hardly any rats, there was hardly any worthwhile ore (some chart had told me there was supposed to be Omber and Jaspet, which there was, but it was so small it was useless). And then usually while in the middile of killing the rat pack leader (the guy worth over 100,000 ISK) some dude in a recon ship would come and own me. It was dam annoying. And now I'm not going back to low/null sec untill I join a 0.0 corp/alliance.

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Originally by: Drizit

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CCP have got the Empire RvR Set up right. There are rewards to be made but getting to 9 figures for example take a fair bit of time.

In 0.0, RvR is out of balance compared to lowsec. An hour of ratting can bring in enough to buy a BS and T2 fittings with change. Complexes with loot worth in the order of half a billion means that cap ships are within easy reach of any 0.0 residents wallet. However, this is acceptable given that alliances in 0.0 field and lose many large ships including caps in a relatively short battle.

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Originally by: Rigo Kajjar

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Originally by: Zeknichov

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To be blunt Rigo it is of my opinion you shouldn't be playing EVE. EVE was never meant as a PvE game, it was meant as a PvP game and the PvEers are ruining the game. Empire should only be a place where defeated PvPers attempt to regain some strength to leave and return to 0.0.

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If you want a pure PvP game, go play something else. Eve is a sandbox in space, it is not my problem that you can't see any other playstyle than 0.0 pew pew.

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Originally by: Desh Craven

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Come on, even in the pink huffy fluffy WoW you had to move on from Barrens/Westfall into the big world of PvP after you had done all the quests in the area and mobs no longer provided XP. And you definetily did not earn diddly squat by farming in Westfall.

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Quote:

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1. EVE is the purest PvP game on the market. As I defined as non-recreational PvP in my earlier post.

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Originally by: Zeknichov

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Edited by: Zeknichov on 28/12/2007 11:09:36
Oosel your point is valid. I knew a guy who played from 2003-2005 simply in high-sec because that is how he wanted to play. However by venturing out to 0.0 space in much less time I was easily able to out pace his isk generating ability from ratting and mining. This simply doesn't hold true anymore. I have alts from second accounts in high sec that provide me with all the isk I need to PvP in 0.0 space. This just seems wrong but nearly everyone is doing it. With high amounts of capital you can make more isk in high-sec than in low-sec or 0.0. Missions are hardly the problem. Production and Research are the problems in high-sec. R&D will eventually destroy itself as more and more people get into it.

As for your point Khes, the rewards for that much coordination and effort are very small in low-sec you're better off attempting to join a 0.0 alliance.

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Originally by: Unscrew Pewlous

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After having read through all of this thread, and my 1 year of experience in this game:

0.0 is like joining the military. 90% boredom with 10% fun. Your time is not your own, meaning you must join a large alliance that tells you when you must gate camp (about as boring as watching paint dry), fly cap for a mining op, or form up for a couple of hours to raid another alliance. Now if this is your idea of fun, go for it.

low sec is 90% pvp. Entering low sec means you must be ready to pvp at all times. No exceptions.

hi sec, on the other hand, allows for a myriad of experiences and options, without chaining you to a single style of play.

For those of you, who think that Eve is a pvp game, you should read the press releases and articles put out by the staff of ccp. The game is supposed to support a great diversity of play styles even eventually to the point of being a farmer on a planet.

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Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

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and yet no one thinks to make friendly with the pirates?

when the local pirates are blue what risk is there in lowsec?

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Originally by: Zeknichov

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Originally by: Rigo Kajjar

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Originally by: Zeknichov

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Now back to EVE. There was once a very similar case in EVE. You started in empire which was nearly 100% safe. EVE works a little different, there's no level progression and because skills are static the only real progression in EVE is financial progression. As you progress financially you begin to realize that if you want to fly those cruisers or battleships you're going to be in empire a hell of a long time. So you decide now that you've established yourself somewhat financially that you'll take the risk of low-sec in an attempt to progress further financially. After a time you decide to move into 0.0.

This form of progression is non-existent in EVE anymore. As already discussed low-sec is far too dangerous for the rewards it brings. Empire is far too safe for the rewards it brings and 0.0, well 0.0 may as well be compared to WoW battlegrounds. A Band of Brothers player even admitted to funding his 0.0 activities with characters in empire. I don't know why I'm the only one seeing a problem with this. He should be funding his 0.0 activities with 0.0 activities.

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You are right that progression does not exist in EVE at this point. I for one in the distant future (assuming I still play at that point anyway ) may consider Low Sec for kicks but that will not be until I have 10 Copies of the exact ship and Implants I went into Low Sec with sitting back home. That way I have lost nothing and I can "Afford" to Lose what I flew into Low Sec and yet stand a fleeting Chance of doing anything worthwhile there. However, it will be a Looong time of building Resources before that day and there is really NOTHING in Low or 0.0 that can assure me those Resources so that I do not need to grind them in High Sec. After all, as mentioned the rewards are not that great and the likelihood of loosing one's ship entirely is high making the venture MUCH more likely to end in heavy negative progress than in success.

Likewise for the man who uses a High Sec charactet to fund a 0.0 Character, it seems altogether fair and reasonable to me. 0.0 is a warzone he needs somewhere safe and reliable to recoup his losses and reclaim the multitude of items lost from that war he would otherwise be in the middle of constantly.

Yet still Factional Warfare could change that model and would add to the Risks and Rewards of High Sec and beyound. Likely many of the initail struggles between Factions will take place behind Concord's back in Low Sec but with the opportunity to gain real good Rewards from a given Faction, Fame among the Players, and make Lasting impacts on the Game World, I think the Rewards, which right now are just Hollow Isk, would be greatly increased. Also having the aid of some nasty NPC Navy buddies even Vs. Other Such with other Players would help even some of the younger EvE players to get more involved.
+++++++++++++++
I saw the Sign...!

O.o

Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

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and yet no one thinks to make friendly with the pirates?

when the local pirates are blue what risk is there in lowsec?

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Originally by: Meloric

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A change that I would like to see to make the risk/reward ratios more interesting is the elimination of gate camps in all of space including in 0.0. In other words you should be able to jump through a gate with protection anywhere you wish to go in the universe. Concord should take over ownership of the gates and provide protection around the gates even in 0.0 space.

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Originally by: Victor Forge

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Edited by: Victor Forge on 31/12/2007 16:44:15

Originally by: Meloric

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A change that I would like to see to make the risk/reward ratios more interesting is the elimination of gate camps in all of space including in 0.0. In other words you should be able to jump through a gate with protection anywhere you wish to go in the universe. Concord should take over ownership of the gates and provide protection around the gates even in 0.0 space.

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Even I don¦t agree with "even in 0.0 space" part. 0.0 should be dangerous and an area for veterans. What I really don¦t like is that most dangerous area now is the gates between sec 0.5 space and 0.4. It really should be the gates between 0.1 and 0.0

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Originally by: Meloric

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I understand this but making the gates secure for jumping does not change the rules of engagement outside of say 2000 meters from the gate.

Right now there are two types of gate campers. You have the sovereign this is our space group who kill anyone that isn't blue and the so called pirates that set up camps semi-randomly to jump anyone they can that comes through. The problem is that while their goals may be slightly different the end result is the same in that they effectively turn off the gates to anyone else outside of their select group.

If you are part of the group/corps/alliance/NAP then no problem. If you are not then expect to die. This is NOT risk versus reward this is just risk without any reward. At least in Las Vegas they let you think you could win and give you a free drink now and then before they take you for everything you have.

Also, I do think that while it may be annoying to have visitors dropping in unannounced it actually will end up adding to the overall danger in low sec space and below.

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