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Jack Target
The Graduates
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.12.28 04:58:00 -
[1]
Is there really going to be a speed nerf or is this just a rumour? Can someone provide a link to the dev blog that says this nerf might happen?
I like fast ships, so I'm hoping there will not be a nerf.
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Ariel Dawn
Beets and Gravy Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.12.28 05:04:00 -
[2]
Doubt it, or if so not a serious one.
People just whine about whatever everyone else is complaining about; before there was the 'problem' of people going AFK in their systems while cloaked so they were too scared to rat. Huge threads, now almost non-existent despite no changes made.
I wouldn't worry about it, they'll find something new soon.
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Wu Jiun
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Posted - 2007.12.28 05:06:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Wu Jiun on 28/12/2007 05:07:20
I think i heard people talking about the live dev blog. Maybe it was mentioned there!?
But just looking at the last year and a half or so:
ecm whines->ecm nerf
nos whines->nos nerf
damp whines->damp nerf, td nerf, nerf this and that
drone whines->drone nerf
speed whines-> ?
Well it strikes me as obvious. Speed will get nerfed no matter what the devs tell you now. Good thing is they just boosted ecm and torps so once speed is nerfed there is already the next nerf on the agenda...
I am not saying all those changes were bad or uncalled for its just they coincide pretty well with the mass-whines on the forums.
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shinsushi
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Posted - 2007.12.28 05:19:00 -
[4]
I would bet they will nerf speed. CCP once said that eve isn't about twitch combat (the first nano-nerf) and that they do not like seeing ships that do not commit to combat (the WCS nerf).
I hope they just nerf the hell out of implants and gang-links though. As I see it, if you take those out of the equation things aren't nearly as bad as they appear.
A fully T2 vaga w/ polys, 2x OD IIs and 1 x nano II only goes 5.8 km/sec.
IDK, maybe the problem is more in the amount of Boost MWDs give, or the lack of signature increase they penalize.
Either way, if I was a betting man I would bet that something will be effected. OF course if this effects what you are training, your just a FotM ***** anyway and I don't think anyone cares about the whine.
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.28 05:22:00 -
[5]
they won't nerf it they will change the way it works.
which people will call a nerf.
and whine about.
while the rest of us will relised that faster ships will go slower and yet be even better at not getting hit.
then once everyone figures this out people will whine about speed again and they will change it again.
and people will whine thinking ou can't go fast anymore.
but us smart players will know better and adapt.
and then everyone will figure out how to do it again.
so people will whine.
and they will nerf once more.
thus is eve :)
pink supporter!
Future art director at CCP!
or texture guy, either or :P
http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop
Was in class with these folks :P |
Admiral Pelleon
Caldari
White Shadow Imperium
Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2007.12.28 05:25:00 -
[6]
Moon your sig.
It keeps changing!
________
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.28 05:28:00 -
[7]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 28/12/2007 05:29:03
 Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
Moon your sig.
It keeps changing!
muhahahaha
wait for my full sig I'm working on.
wait unless you mean quick rapid like?
pink supporter!
Future art director at CCP!
or texture guy, either or :P
http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop
Was in class with these folks :P |
F'nog
Amarr
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.12.28 05:43:00 -
[8]
I think changing speed so that the higher-limit ones aren't so easy to achieve while not effecting the low end at all is a good idea. Whether CCP will screw this up is another thing.
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.28 05:44:00 -
[9]
Originally by: F'nog
I think changing speed so that the higher-limit ones aren't so easy to achieve while not effecting the low end at all is a good idea. Whether CCP will screw this up is another thing.
right I for one am very afraid I will lose my effective cheaper set ups.
pink supporter!
Future art director at CCP!
or texture guy, either or :P
http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop
Was in class with these folks :P |
shinsushi
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Posted - 2007.12.28 05:51:00 -
[10]
I just want a working counter to everything in the game. Not a OMG 1 module counter 100, just a reasonable counter thats widely available.
ECM has it, RSDs have it, TDs have it, Tanking has it, ganking has it, drones have it, speedtanking above 13km doesn't have it, and speed tanking under 13 km has a OMGOVERPOWERED counter. Thats my issue.
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. |
EQUINAX
Minmatar
ECLIPTIC HORIZON
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Posted - 2007.12.28 05:51:00 -
[11]
The only MWD's that should exist in game are the 1MN ones. It's more practical for frigate class ships to have speed, everything else should have enough range or use an afterburner to get there while the frigate holds down the target.
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shinsushi
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Posted - 2007.12.28 06:17:00 -
[12]
Originally by: EQUINAX
The only MWD's that should exist in game are the 1MN ones. It's more practical for frigate class ships to have speed, everything else should have enough range or use an afterburner to get there while the frigate holds down the target.
I don't think I can agree with this.
Blasterboats live and die by MWDs, as do minnie ships. I could stand by a reduction in MWD efficiency as they move up in size, but to completely anhilate them would be to destroy a number of play methods, and thats not a good thing.
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. |
umop 3pisdn
Minmatar
Fnck the blob.
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Posted - 2007.12.28 06:53:00 -
[13]
Originally by: shinsushi
Originally by: EQUINAX
The only MWD's that should exist in game are the 1MN ones. It's more practical for frigate class ships to have speed, everything else should have enough range or use an afterburner to get there while the frigate holds down the target.
I don't think I can agree with this.
Blasterboats live and die by MWDs, as do minnie ships. I could stand by a reduction in MWD efficiency as they move up in size, but to completely anhilate them would be to destroy a number of play methods, and thats not a good thing.
MWDs on bs's are pretty essential but comparing the 2 bs, 1 with and 1 without an MWD you can see that they are already quite harsh to fit.
And yes, speed will be nerfed, the whines say so, the devs just nerd the flavor of the month.
The drakes still a wee bit too tanky, but the myrm (which coincidentally, can have trouble scratching a drake) got the nerf, why? because you dont see that many drakes ganking people and the carebear majority love their drakes.
So the whines are basically eve vs caldari.
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EQUINAX
Minmatar
ECLIPTIC HORIZON
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Posted - 2007.12.28 07:07:00 -
[14]
Edited by: EQUINAX on 28/12/2007 07:07:20
Originally by: shinsushi
Originally by: EQUINAX
The only MWD's that should exist in game are the 1MN ones. It's more practical for frigate class ships to have speed, everything else should have enough range or use an afterburner to get there while the frigate holds down the target.
I don't think I can agree with this.
Blasterboats live and die by MWDs, as do minnie ships. I could stand by a reduction in MWD efficiency as they move up in size, but to completely anhilate them would be to destroy a number of play methods, and thats not a good thing.
How about just changing ammo according to how far from the target you are?
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.28 07:08:00 -
[15]
Originally by: EQUINAX
Edited by: EQUINAX on 28/12/2007 07:07:20
Originally by: shinsushi
Originally by: EQUINAX
The only MWD's that should exist in game are the 1MN ones. It's more practical for frigate class ships to have speed, everything else should have enough range or use an afterburner to get there while the frigate holds down the target.
I don't think I can agree with this.
Blasterboats live and die by MWDs, as do minnie ships. I could stand by a reduction in MWD efficiency as they move up in size, but to completely anhilate them would be to destroy a number of play methods, and thats not a good thing.
How about just changing ammo according to how far from the target you are?
or changing sripts? they only take a second to change you can use the tracking one when close and the optimal range one where far away.
pink supporter!
Future art director at CCP!
or texture guy, either or :P
http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop
Was in class with these folks :P |
Hannobaal
Gallente
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.28 07:12:00 -
[16]
Originally by: EQUINAX
Edited by: EQUINAX on 28/12/2007 07:07:20
Originally by: shinsushi
Originally by: EQUINAX
The only MWD's that should exist in game are the 1MN ones. It's more practical for frigate class ships to have speed, everything else should have enough range or use an afterburner to get there while the frigate holds down the target.
I don't think I can agree with this.
Blasterboats live and die by MWDs, as do minnie ships. I could stand by a reduction in MWD efficiency as they move up in size, but to completely anhilate them would be to destroy a number of play methods, and thats not a good thing.
How about just changing ammo according to how far from the target you are?
What range do you imagine you can get with blasters using the longest range ammo?
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.28 07:13:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: EQUINAX
Edited by: EQUINAX on 28/12/2007 07:07:20
Originally by: shinsushi
Originally by: EQUINAX
The only MWD's that should exist in game are the 1MN ones. It's more practical for frigate class ships to have speed, everything else should have enough range or use an afterburner to get there while the frigate holds down the target.
I don't think I can agree with this.
Blasterboats live and die by MWDs, as do minnie ships. I could stand by a reduction in MWD efficiency as they move up in size, but to completely anhilate them would be to destroy a number of play methods, and thats not a good thing.
How about just changing ammo according to how far from the target you are?
What range do you imagine you can get with blasters using the longest range ammo?
SEE that's why I had my idea for assuslt ships to get a 500% increase to optimal range for blasters only.
or auto cannons.
pink supporter!
Future art director at CCP!
or texture guy, either or :P
http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop
Was in class with these folks :P |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.12.28 08:38:00 -
[18]
Originally by: shinsushi
A fully T2 vaga w/ polys, 2x OD IIs and 1 x nano II only goes 5.8 km/sec.
Now add in implants and gang bonuses (not sure how fast that is but a fair bit faster).
My sense is the speed nerf will come in the form of more/worse stacking penalties. I could be wrong about that though so don't quote me.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.28 08:48:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: shinsushi
A fully T2 vaga w/ polys, 2x OD IIs and 1 x nano II only goes 5.8 km/sec.
Now add in implants and gang bonuses (not sure how fast that is but a fair bit faster).
My sense is the speed nerf will come in the form of more/worse stacking penalties. I could be wrong about that though so don't quote me.
don't forget nano pump rigs.
10 more speed with snakes I think about
so about 6.5m/s there.
gang bonus to after burner
up to 7.5 m/s
rig will get that up to 9m/s
over heat for another 3000 m/s
pink supporter!
Future art director at CCP!
or texture guy, either or :P
http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop
Was in class with these folks :P |
Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
Do Or Die And Live Or Try
The Kano Organisation
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Posted - 2007.12.28 08:54:00 -
[20]
If i remember correctly, MWD's was supposed to be used to close the gap between you and the enemy quickly. As it stands, it is often used as a tank, but orbiting at high speeds.
I think the simplest solution to this "problem", is to add an agility penalty when activated. So a vaga can go 6km/s, but can't turn. Blaster boats will not really be affected, as they usually don't want the MWD to continue when they are in range.
Anyways, I think its a simple solution if CCP wants a speed nerf.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.28 08:56:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
If i remember correctly, MWD's was supposed to be used to close the gap between you and the enemy quickly. As it stands, it is often used as a tank, but orbiting at high speeds.
I think the simplest solution to this "problem", is to add an agility penalty when activated. So a vaga can go 6km/s, but can't turn. Blaster boats will not really be affected, as they usually don't want the MWD to continue when they are in range.
Anyways, I think its a simple solution if CCP wants a speed nerf.
good point, the whole increase in sig radius is suppose to make them easier to hit.
but it's gone so far it doesn't work out that way.
pink supporter!
Future art director at CCP!
or texture guy, either or :P
http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop
Was in class with these folks :P |
J Valkor
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.12.28 08:56:00 -
[22]
Expect a change to how speed stacks and possibly how the MWD works. Interceptors should see the least change but as you get into larger vessels see them become more pronounced.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.28 08:57:00 -
[23]
Originally by: J Valkor
Expect a change to how speed stacks and possibly how the MWD works. Interceptors should see the least change but as you get into larger vessels see them become more pronounced.
hopefully they will boost after burners a bit maybe while giving a big reason to not keep a MWD now.
pink supporter!
Future art director at CCP!
or texture guy, either or :P
http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop
Was in class with these folks :P |
J Valkor
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.12.28 08:59:00 -
[24]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: J Valkor
Expect a change to how speed stacks and possibly how the MWD works. Interceptors should see the least change but as you get into larger vessels see them become more pronounced.
hopefully they will boost after burners a bit maybe while giving a big reason to not keep a MWD now.
Hopefully. Just expect about a billion threads complaining about the change. I despise any mod becoming "necessary."
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.28 09:07:00 -
[25]
Originally by: J Valkor
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: J Valkor
Expect a change to how speed stacks and possibly how the MWD works. Interceptors should see the least change but as you get into larger vessels see them become more pronounced.
hopefully they will boost after burners a bit maybe while giving a big reason to not keep a MWD now.
Hopefully. Just expect about a billion threads complaining about the change. I despise any mod becoming "necessary."
if afterburners gave even 50% more boost with MWD getting a boost even too but they could like only let you almost go nothing but in a straight line.
then it would be cool because fast ships could still run away maybe even better at it and smallers ships could move a "safe" speeds without the huge increase to sig radius.
pink supporter!
Future art director at CCP!
or texture guy, either or :P
http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop
Was in class with these folks :P |
F'nog
Amarr
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.12.28 09:16:00 -
[26]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: J Valkor
Expect a change to how speed stacks and possibly how the MWD works. Interceptors should see the least change but as you get into larger vessels see them become more pronounced.
hopefully they will boost after burners a bit maybe while giving a big reason to not keep a MWD now.
Now this I have to laugh at. ABs used to give a 40% bonus or so. It was increased a while back so you could actually notice when one was used. It was at the same time ABs and MWDs couldn't both be activated on the same ship.
So I don't necessarily think ABs need a boost.
It's the ultra-high end people doing several km/s in a BS that need looking at.
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.28 09:20:00 -
[27]
Originally by: F'nog
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: J Valkor
Expect a change to how speed stacks and possibly how the MWD works. Interceptors should see the least change but as you get into larger vessels see them become more pronounced.
hopefully they will boost after burners a bit maybe while giving a big reason to not keep a MWD now.
Now this I have to laugh at. ABs used to give a 40% bonus or so. It was increased a while back so you could actually notice when one was used. It was at the same time ABs and MWDs couldn't both be activated on the same ship.
So I don't necessarily think ABs need a boost.
It's the ultra-high end people doing several km/s in a BS that need looking at.
true
pink supporter!
Future art director at CCP!
or texture guy, either or :P
http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop
Was in class with these folks :P |
muffminer
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Posted - 2007.12.28 10:13:00 -
[28]
this topic kinda makes me sick.
People aren't complaining about the speed of a non-rigged, non-implanted ship? Why? because apparently the people complaining never put the isk or time into it to obtain such speeds.
I'm sorry...but if i spend 1-4billion on a full set of implants...and throw 100 mil in rigs and mods to fit my ship...WHY ON ***KING EARTH should someone who DIDN't put that kind of isk, which takes time and effort to produce, be able to "easily" take the person who did out?
my unrigged stiletto does 6.5km...i could probably spend 16 mil on crap auxilary thruster I'' and put it in that ship and could tackle any vaga with 1bil in imps...frkkn cheaparse whiners.
a charactor SPECIALIZED for his ship that he spent possibly billions to spec for should be able to smoke or avoid a pilot who spread his training out and doesn't want to risk the frikkin hours and hours of time they spent putting their ship and charactor together.
GET OVER IT.
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Lt Angus
Caldari
the united
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Posted - 2007.12.28 10:19:00 -
[29]
They already nerfed speed multiple times, now everything is slow
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Venus Felix
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Posted - 2007.12.28 10:38:00 -
[30]
Originally by: muffminer
this topic kinda makes me sick.
People aren't complaining about the speed of a non-rigged, non-implanted ship? Why? because apparently the people complaining never put the isk or time into it to obtain such speeds.
I'm sorry...but if i spend 1-4billion on a full set of implants...and throw 100 mil in rigs and mods to fit my ship...WHY ON ***KING EARTH should someone who DIDN't put that kind of isk, which takes time and effort to produce, be able to "easily" take the person who did out?
my unrigged stiletto does 6.5km...i could probably spend 16 mil on crap auxilary thruster I'' and put it in that ship and could tackle any vaga with 1bil in imps...frkkn cheaparse whiners.
a charactor SPECIALIZED for his ship that he spent possibly billions to spec for should be able to smoke or avoid a pilot who spread his training out and doesn't want to risk the frikkin hours and hours of time they spent putting their ship and charactor together.
GET OVER IT.
Now this is just stupid.
My problem is that there isn't anything short of capitals that I can spend that kind of money on that isn't a speed-setup, at least if you want it to be a half-way survivable setup. Sure, I could spend a few bil on a Rokh with Pith-X booster and a Crystal set but that is still dead as soon as you run into a 5-man gang with decent setups.
I don't like speedy ships but if you give me a multi billion gank or tank setup, that can avoid fights that I don't like the way a snaked-up Vaga can, then you can keep your snakes.
Snakes are expensive b/c they are over-powered, not the other way around.
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General Petraeus
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.12.28 10:52:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Jack Target
Is there really going to be a speed nerf or is this just a rumour? Can someone provide a link to the dev blog that says this nerf might happen?
I like fast ships, so I'm hoping there will not be a nerf.
I hope so ships are now faster than they have ever been.
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EQUINAX
Minmatar
ECLIPTIC HORIZON
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Posted - 2007.12.28 10:54:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: EQUINAX
Edited by: EQUINAX on 28/12/2007 07:07:20
Originally by: shinsushi
Originally by: EQUINAX
The only MWD's that should exist in game are the 1MN ones. It's more practical for frigate class ships to have speed, everything else should have enough range or use an afterburner to get there while the frigate holds down the target.
I don't think I can agree with this.
Blasterboats live and die by MWDs, as do minnie ships. I could stand by a reduction in MWD efficiency as they move up in size, but to completely anhilate them would be to destroy a number of play methods, and thats not a good thing.
How about just changing ammo according to how far from the target you are?
What range do you imagine you can get with blasters using the longest range ammo?
1 million kilometers  ....PvP nowadays is either right on top of the target or snipers. I'd like a little more variety please.
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.12.28 11:40:00 -
[33]
Speed nerf is essentially a dumbing down of the game
*) high speed setups take more personal skill to use - because if you make mistake you get caught and destroyed easily.
*) high speed setups require more control of the ship, "twitch play", trying to keep the right distance from the enemy and not getting too far. Turning MWD on and off when needed. More button clicking involved overall.
*) high speed setups require larger investments from the player's character. Need to have more isk, need to have high skills. It is something one has to work on long and hard unless you are just lucky being rich with GTCs or T2 BPOs.
Any nerf to high end speed setups is a small but noticeable dumbing down of average play style.
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Detrol
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.12.28 11:42:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Venus Felix
Sure, I could spend a few bil on a Rokh with Pith-X booster and a Crystal set but that is still dead as soon as you run into a 5-man gang with decent setups.
That's what people are saying here Venus,
the speed ships are also dead (and much sooner) when they run into a gang specialized to take them out.
As more and more nanoships are showing up, more and more people are fitting their ships to take out nanoships.
The whole frustration with WCS, nanoships and all is that your target can decide to run off when it wants too, leaving you behind without a kill. I don't see the difference between a nanoship and a heavily trained, specialized ecm boat that scrambles you, permajams you and slowly eats you up while you cannot even lock him back. He too can decide to run off if he wants to.
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J Valkor
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.12.28 12:04:00 -
[35]
That is a false analogy. But you know that. Just like every excuse maker here knows in their hearts of hearts that their ship is broken. It is not like I blame you or dislike you for it, it is a rational response. Most of you would still be flying your nano BS if you could.
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Cornette
Gallente
Mercenaries of Andosia
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2007.12.28 13:57:00 -
[36]
By now I've read hundreds of posts from people stating either that "nanos is ruining the game nerf it!!1" or "no nanos if fine learn to play n00b!!1"
Most of the whines are from people I believe whines just for the sake of whining, it seem to have evolved into a trend where whiners meet up on the forum and start moaning as **** about #insert-monthly-whine-about-this-here# because it is the hip thing to do. So it took me some time to sort trough the rubbish for sensible arguments for and against a speed nerf.
Now I think there is truth in both statements - the game gets broken when people get near immunity and the only thing that can kill them is if they do a stupid misstake. Snake implants and polys are the main culprits here. When speed get so stupidly fast that hugins/rapiers doesn't work anymore then there is something wrong.
But speed is also the only thing that can really challenge blobs. Some of the whines against nanos are from people in alliances that have no other tactics but making a blob. That a gang of five man have the nerve to intrude into their space, kill a ratter or two and then run away when they bring 50 man to kill them makes them furious. Nevermind that the same people see no problem with bringing a 300+ man fleet into a system and slow down the node to a halt that is unplayable.
Now it seems we will get a speednerf, I just hope it is a sensible solution that does not take the role away from the Vagabond. Yes I do fly Vagabonds myself but its not the only ship I use. Its one among many ships I choose among depending on the situation. I don't use any speed implants or faction setups either. But I would hate to see it be turned into just another cruiser with no real role.
It will be interesting to see if CCP creates a good balance on the whole picture or if they are lazy and do a "kill-the-patitent" thing by overnerfing. In the meantime the debate continues.
//Cornette
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JamnOne
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.28 16:37:00 -
[37]
Is a speed boat FOTM? If it is, then more than likely it will be nerfed. If it isn't, then no.
________________________
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Hah! Vengeance is sweet! 
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The Djego
Minmatar
FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP.
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Posted - 2007.12.28 16:37:00 -
[38]
Edited by: The Djego on 28/12/2007 16:39:33
agree Cornette i have the same opinion
Originally by: Ephemeron
Speed nerf is essentially a dumbing down of the game
*) high speed setups take more personal skill to use - because if you make mistake you get caught and destroyed easily.
*) high speed setups require more control of the ship, "twitch play", trying to keep the right distance from the enemy and not getting too far. Turning MWD on and off when needed. More button clicking involved overall.
*) high speed setups require larger investments from the player's character. Need to have more isk, need to have high skills. It is something one has to work on long and hard unless you are just lucky being rich with GTCs or T2 BPOs.
Any nerf to high end speed setups is a small but noticeable dumbing down of average play style.
1. Other ships need that to, even Blasterships is not easy F1-F8 most of the times if you are not in a big Gang. Controlling Range is essencial for most of the Ships with guns and make quite a diffrence in Piloting especialy against multiply targets. It is challaging to use a Nano Ship but others are also not dump in use and require personal Skill. Yes I have a Fleet Stabber to. 
2. If people would loose this ships more often they would not do it. If I spend the equal Amount on my Deimos I would be killed in so many more situations where I can¦t retreat.
Why would this People not spend this ISK on a Faction Tank plus a Slave set. The awnser is simple they would die more often.
Dumping down the "advertage playstyle of Nano" mayby will give other playsyles a comback. ATM if I fit Nano on a Ship i could not imagine a single situation in PVP where Tank/DPS will be better in survival or to geting kills.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! |
muffminer
|
Posted - 2007.12.28 18:52:00 -
[39]
Edited by: muffminer on 28/12/2007 18:54:03
here are some details about "nano" builds.
Vaga's are usually set up with a shield HP tank..2 extenders a disrupter and a MWD.
Now you can line the bottom up w/ OD's and maybe a nanofiber for warptime and polycarb it out..however the people w/ impressive dps are generally running 2 gyrostabs and fit the rest for speed..I'd choose OD injectors as polycarbs help the agility.
With only rogue imps i'll be doing 6.2km a sec (only because i took a month to train navi skills)
Now guys...do some research..look at the tracking speed of medium autocannons...and then look at t2 ammo for autocannons. (projectiles). barrage is the commonly used ammo and take a look at it's pretty big reduction in tracking speeds.
The only way a vaga's going to hit you at high speeds is by flying at you in straight lines and that can definately be hard to do when anytime you stop and turn you're most likely going to get hit by whatever group of people is shooting at you..nothing to rep with
i've been playing the game for a year on my main...and the fastest vaga i've personally seen went about 8km/sec. stating again that with a dps/speed mixture setup..without imps you're only going 5.8km a sec or so .and now with interceptor BOOST (80% reduction in cap need for propulsion jamming mods) any UNRIGGED ceptor should be capable of out flying and highly out maneuvering a cruiser sized vessel.
Here in lies the part about me saying people should be patient..train skills...and earn some frikking isk.
a polycarbed ceptor will probably go at least what 8-10km? i could be wrong...now a snaked out ceptor pilot could go what 15-20?
I read a statement about rapier's being ineffective...they've got how many midslots? they can web farther than they can disrupt..drop the points..let a ceptor pilot help you out..and if you're constantly being bothered by people with 1bil or more in implants..my suggestion to you really...either step up..set up a clone to counter them with.or find space they don't hunt in..these guys worked many hours and trained MANY skills for their speed and ability to use these implants.
You guys should try it.
Controlling ANY ship doing 8km+ with precision is quite a task.
- here's another point of view....if the non speedy opponent put the rigging, and the same amount of skills into their shield or armor tank...and then bought the expensive set of implants to back that tank up...there's no way in hell 1 vaga pilot is going to take you down..if he has time to do so it's because you're alone in a place and got comfortable when you shuold've been paranoid and working with people..its called learn to pay attention to local and intel channels you noobs. get to know interceptor and dictor pilots...and make sure they know how to fly them. If you are of equal skills and isk and specialized towards your tech 2 cruiser or even some tier 2 BC's and definately some BS's...you may not be able to kill the vaga..but then again the vaga most likely can't kill you either. You knew the risk you took when you went into lowsec or 0.0..or even undocked at war...and then you didn't take caution..but even then if you have made good friends in the game and have any real pvp experience you should know that in most cases..soloing isn't a viable option..it takes friends..call for reinforcements.
What i pick up from the people complaining about the minmatar's aspect of the game (actually giving velocity bonuses to ships and being designed around speed) is
I want my single cruiser sized vessel worth 250mil or more or my tech 1 battlecruiser worth 80-120mil with a silly clone worth 100-150mil with my 6 months to a year of specialized training or my 2-3 years of training just the bare necessities for my t1 ships and carebear mobiles to be able to completely wtfpwn this 2003-2004 player with training dedicated to his playing style and ship of preference and has enough money to risk flying in ships and clones worth billions
|
Jack Target
The Graduates
Brutally Clever Empire
|
Posted - 2007.12.28 19:28:00 -
[40]
Thank you all very much for your replies.
I agree with everyone here, but I have faith in CCP.
|
Removal Tool
Vogon Deconstruction Fleet
|
Posted - 2007.12.28 19:34:00 -
[41]
While I did read the comments before commenting here, I didn't see anyone mention this: Need For Speed? Wasn't the Need for Speed an official dev/CCP thing? And now speed is going to be nerfed?
If CCP is nerfing something to offset a previous buff, isn't that admitting that the previous buff was a mistake?
I realize that the game changes and evolves, which is a sound concept, but to buff then nerf/nerf then buff the same attribute, sounds negligent. |
Sharupak
Minmatar
Knights Of the Black Sun
Brotherhood Of Steel
|
Posted - 2007.12.28 19:41:00 -
[42]
*popcorn smiley here*
Here we go again! WEEEEEEEE
_______________________________________________
RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude. |
Zak Bryn
Caldari
Omicron Resource Technologies Limited
|
Posted - 2007.12.28 20:01:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Removal Tool
While I did read the comments before commenting here, I didn't see anyone mention this: Need For Speed? Wasn't the Need for Speed an official dev/CCP thing? And now speed is going to be nerfed?
Need for speed was/is for the game and servers, NOT the ships
|
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2007.12.28 20:14:00 -
[44]
Quote:
Dumping down the "advertage playstyle of Nano" mayby will give other playsyles a comback. ATM if I fit Nano on a Ship i could not imagine a single situation in PVP where Tank/DPS will be better in survival or to geting kills.
That seems to imply that a clear majority of players are using nanoship playstyle. That is clearly not the case.
At least 60% of all the people I encounter in 0.0 are not using nanoship playstyle. Many of them setup for gank and tank + MWD. But they barely reach 2000 m/s. I wouldn't consider anything under 2000 m/s as nanoship.
Of the remaining 40%, roughly 20% use specialized nanoship tactics. These are mostly inty and vaga pilots, dictors, a few bs. They are powerful in the right hands, people who know how to use them can also afford to pimp them out.
20% is a lot of people, it's very easy to notice their presense because of their power. But they are not the majority. By no stretch of imagination do nanoships dominate alternative playstyles. The main playstyle in EVE is tank and gank. Nerfing speed setups will mostly encourage more tank and gank setups. Nerfing speed will not increase diversity of playstyles, it'll only make current majority bigger.
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Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2007.12.28 20:19:00 -
[45]
How about making the mwd speed increase independent of the mass of the ships and only dependent on the warp speed of the ship. This would remove polycarbs and nanofibres from the equation. Interceptors with a high base warp speed and rigs/implants for a warp speed bonus will still remain the top and everyone else will have to readjust their tactics/ship setups.
Just a rough half-assed idea here but it would bring the mechanic of mwds more in line with how the actual warpdrive works.
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Skjorta
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Posted - 2007.12.28 20:33:00 -
[46]
If people would use actual tq server setups, not EFT online setups with the isk cost of a few carriers.
Speed wouldn't be so shocking.
Phase 1: Web.
Phase 2: Look at the slow moving target that has no tank other than speed.
Phase 3: ?
Phase 4: Profit!
I wonder what 3 could be.
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Removal Tool
Vogon Deconstruction Fleet
|
Posted - 2007.12.28 20:51:00 -
[47]
"Need for speed was/is for the game and servers, NOT the ships"
Ah....thanks
I prefer my own embarassment  here to the alternative, which would have that CCP was completely insane. |
Gorefacer
Caldari
Resurrection
|
Posted - 2007.12.28 22:18:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Gorefacer on 28/12/2007 22:25:24
Originally by: Ariel Dawn
Doubt it, or if so not a serious one.
People just whine about whatever everyone else is complaining about; before there was the 'problem' of people going AFK in their systems while cloaked so they were too scared to rat. Huge threads, now almost non-existent despite no changes made.
I wouldn't worry about it, they'll find something new soon.
You missed it.
AFK cloakers had nothing to do with fear. It was a tactic that reduced efficiency of enemy PVErs able to be accomplished while AFK. I won't say anymore since you missed the point of those discussions despite obviously reading them.
Also there is only so much you can argue about, before it has all been said. No matter which way you feel on any issue, the fact that you are debating it on the forums usually indicates that you enjoy the game enough to play it either way.
Just because you don't see discussions on certain topics RIGHT NOW does not mean there aren't still differing opinions on it.
Your whole post reeks of the "whiners are ruining EVE" "EVE player base is broken" mentality and ironically enough, source of a new spate of complaint topics.
On Topic: It sounds like something will be changed related to speed. Hopefully the change encourages more engagements and doesn't just **** a bunch of people off.
Edit: Speed is considered a tanking style. As such I would like to see it stay effective at mitigating damage but not able to completely negate it. Like resistance or buffer tanks, make it so that the more spent on the speed tank, the more damage it is able to mitigate.
Not sure what changes would be necessary to achieve this result though.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 06:45:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Removal Tool
"Need for speed was/is for the game and servers, NOT the ships"
Ah....thanks
I prefer my own embarassment here to the alternative, which would have that CCP was completely insane.
oh no...
it's the next boot.ini!
They will go to nerf speed forget a space and accidentally put a stacking penalty on the cluster!
pink supporter!
Future art director at CCP!
or texture guy, either or :P
http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop
Was in class with these folks :P |
umop 3pisdn
Minmatar
Fnck the blob.
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 07:58:00 -
[50]
Originally by: muffminer
Edited by: muffminer on 28/12/2007 19:01:11
here are some details about "nano" builds.
Vaga's are usually set up with a shield HP tank..2 extenders a disrupter and a MWD.
Now you can line the bottom up w/ OD's and maybe a nanofiber for warptime and polycarb it out..however the people w/ impressive dps are generally running 2 gyrostabs and fit the rest for speed..I'd choose OD injectors as polycarbs help the agility.
With only rogue imps i'll be doing 6.2km a sec (only because i took a month to train navi skills)
Now guys...do some research..look at the tracking speed of medium autocannons...and then look at t2 ammo for autocannons. (projectiles). barrage is the commonly used ammo and take a look at it's pretty big reduction in tracking speeds.
The only way a vaga's going to hit you at high speeds is by flying at you in straight lines and that can definately be hard to do when anytime you stop and turn you're most likely going to get hit by whatever group of people is shooting at you..nothing to rep with
i've been playing the game for a year on my main...and the fastest vaga i've personally seen went about 8km/sec. stating again that with a dps/speed mixture setup..without imps you're only going 5.8km a sec or so .and now with interceptor BOOST (80% reduction in cap need for propulsion jamming mods) any UNRIGGED ceptor should be capable of out flying and highly out maneuvering a cruiser sized vessel.
Here in lies the part about me saying people should be patient..train skills...and earn some frikking isk.
a polycarbed ceptor will probably go at least what 8-10km? i could be wrong...now a snaked out ceptor pilot could go what 15-20?
I read a statement about rapier's being ineffective...they've got how many midslots? they can web farther than they can disrupt..drop the points..duel web and let a ceptor or gallente recon hold them down. ..and if you're constantly being bothered by people with 1bil or more in implants..my suggestion to you really...either step up..set up a clone to counter them with.or find space they don't hunt in..these guys worked many hours and trained MANY skills for their speed and ability to use these implants.
You guys should try it.
Controlling ANY ship doing 8km+ with precision is quite a task.
- here's another point of view....if the non speedy opponent put the rigging, and the same amount of skills into their shield or armor tank...and then bought the expensive set of implants to back that tank up...there's no way in hell 1 vaga pilot is going to take you down..if he has time to do so it's because you're alone in a place and got comfortable when you shuold've been paranoid and working with people..its called learn to pay attention to local and intel channels you noobs. get to know interceptor and dictor pilots...and make sure they know how to fly them. If you are of equal skills and isk and specialized towards your tech 2 cruiser or even some tier 2 BC's and definately some BS's...you may not be able to kill the vaga..but then again the vaga most likely can't kill you either. You knew the risk you took when you went into lowsec or 0.0..or even undocked at war.....soloing isn't a viable option..it takes friends..get help <3 tackle pilots.
What i pick up from the people complaining about the minmatar's aspect of the game (actually giving velocity bonuses to ships and being designed around speed) is
"I want my single cruiser sized vessel worth 250mil or more or my tech 1 battlecruiser worth 80-120mil with a silly clone worth 100-150mil with my 6 months to a year of specialized training or my 2-3 years of training just the bare necessities for my t1 ships and carebear mobiles to be able to completely wtfpwn this 2003-2004 player with training dedicated to his playing style and ship of preference and has enough money to risk billions ina fight. "
ATTENTION "BOOST:(NERF) PATCH DEVS; PLEASE READ THIS POST
Skill>skillpoints in nano hacs
|
umop 3pisdn
Minmatar
Fnck the blob.
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 08:00:00 -
[51]
Originally by: General Petraeus
Originally by: Jack Target
Is there really going to be a speed nerf or is this just a rumour? Can someone provide a link to the dev blog that says this nerf might happen?
I like fast ships, so I'm hoping there will not be a nerf.
I hope so ships are now faster than they have ever been.
Joke post or havent been playing for long?
|
Semkhet
KR0M
The Red Skull
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 08:18:00 -
[52]
Originally by: General Petraeus
I hope so ships are now faster than they have ever been.
Have you been in coma since 2003 ? That's the kind of utterly incompetent statement that deserve enemas with tabasco.
|
Semkhet
KR0M
The Red Skull
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 08:28:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Ephemeron
20% is a lot of people, it's very easy to notice their presense because of their power. But they are not the majority. By no stretch of imagination do nanoships dominate alternative playstyles. The main playstyle in EVE is tank and gank. Nerfing speed setups will mostly encourage more tank and gank setups. Nerfing speed will not increase diversity of playstyles, it'll only make current majority bigger.
Besides, even if this figure of 20% of 0.0 PvP'ers is correct, it's a very small percentage of the playerbase since 0.0 demographics are appalling.
|
Grunanca
BLACK-FLAG
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 10:33:00 -
[54]
Originally by: muffminer
Edited by: muffminer on 28/12/2007 19:01:11
Intelligent stuff
Couldnt have said it better myself. I think lot of people have the picture of the mighty vaga of doom that comes in and wtfpwn everyone. Fact is that to do any damage the vaga needs to get below 1km/s. Even there the vaga does crap damage because it has to stay far out in the falloff range. At this point its damn vulnerable and can still not kil anyone with same skills in even a BC. my corp has been solo killing 3 vagas in hurricanes the last week. Thyey get webbed, they die, simple as that.
Only use for a vaga is heavy tackler and prober with a little teeth.
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 10:37:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Semkhet
Originally by: General Petraeus
I hope so ships are now faster than they have ever been.
Have you been in coma since 2003 ? That's the kind of utterly incompetent statement that deserve enemas with tabasco.
Maybe he still has a multiple-MWD Raven or something. Dev Hax.
Rifters!
|
Neon Genesis
The Landed Gentry
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 10:52:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Neon Genesis on 29/12/2007 10:52:38
There are so many people that just want to pvp like two old gallions firing cannons at each other with no movement at all.
_
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 10:54:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Neon Genesis
Edited by: Neon Genesis on 29/12/2007 10:52:38
There are so many people that just want to pvp like two old gallions firing cannons at each other with no movement at all.
yes that's why we want ships to go slower than 14,000m/s...
and want it to be 10,000
or for it have a risk invovled
please shut up.
no one is asking for no speed.
pink supporter!
Future art director at CCP!
or texture guy, either or :P
http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop
Was in class with these folks :P |
Neon Genesis
The Landed Gentry
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 11:08:00 -
[58]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Neon Genesis
Edited by: Neon Genesis on 29/12/2007 10:52:38
There are so many people that just want to pvp like two old gallions firing cannons at each other with no movement at all.
yes that's why we want ships to go slower than 14,000m/s...
and want it to be 10,000
or for it have a risk invovled
please shut up.
no one is asking for no speed.
If you can't catch a ship that doesn't want to be caught going at 14k, how will you catch it at 10k?
_
|
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 11:13:00 -
[59]
You seem like a nice BRUCE chap, however I've got to depress you by telling you the Live Dev blog with Zulupark stated that speed was considered a problem and most likely some stronger stacking penalties are incomming.
You can debate the why and wherefore until you're blue in the face, but the fact is that nano setups allow non-commital PVP, the same as Warp Core Stabs. More and more people are flying these ships because they represent the lowest risk vs how effective they are.
Certain ships built for speed like Interceptors and Vagabonds are pretty well balanced IMHO, but when Ishtars, Zealots, Huginns, Rapiers, Lachesis, Arazu, Machariel, Curse, Typhoon (and the rest of the most commonly nanoed ships) are now zooming around at speeds that most webbers can't catch and where even interceptors can't lock these ships after they jump and align to warp before they are gone, then that is the imbalance IMHO.
Personally I think a blanket stacking nerf of speed mods is worse for some ships than others and it is more likely do more harm to the game than good.
The issue really needs each ship to be looked at individually and perhaps have different stacking penalties for each ship, though something tells me CCP won't be this thorough.
Either way Jack, I think you're hoping in vain.
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 11:20:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Neon Genesis
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Neon Genesis
Edited by: Neon Genesis on 29/12/2007 10:52:38
There are so many people that just want to pvp like two old gallions firing cannons at each other with no movement at all.
yes that's why we want ships to go slower than 14,000m/s...
and want it to be 10,000
or for it have a risk invovled
please shut up.
no one is asking for no speed.
If you can't catch a ship that doesn't want to be caught going at 14k, how will you catch it at 10k?
I won't be able too but my not-billion isk intersceptor could catch it.
right now speed gets crazy!
Also my idea is that ships could just acellerate slower the faster they go andf get extra mass. less turning.
pink supporter!
Future art director at CCP!
or texture guy, either or :P
http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop
Was in class with these folks :P |
Neon Genesis
The Landed Gentry
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 11:26:00 -
[61]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Neon Genesis
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Neon Genesis
Edited by: Neon Genesis on 29/12/2007 10:52:38
There are so many people that just want to pvp like two old gallions firing cannons at each other with no movement at all.
yes that's why we want ships to go slower than 14,000m/s...
and want it to be 10,000
or for it have a risk invovled
please shut up.
no one is asking for no speed.
If you can't catch a ship that doesn't want to be caught going at 14k, how will you catch it at 10k?
I won't be able too but my not-billion isk intersceptor could catch it.
right now speed gets crazy!
Also my idea is that ships could just acellerate slower the faster they go andf get extra mass. less turning.
But then surely ships would still be able to disengage while being unable to use their speed within combat ranges. The same situation we have now? (except for the sacriledge/Cerb)
_
|
Ariel Darklight
Caldari
Model Of Aggression
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 11:31:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Ariel Darklight on 29/12/2007 11:33:47
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss
You seem like a nice BRUCE chap, however I've got to depress you by telling you the Live Dev blog with Zulupark stated that speed was considered a problem and most likely some stronger stacking penalties are incomming.
You can debate the why and wherefore until you're blue in the face, but the fact is that nano setups allow non-commital PVP, the same as Warp Core Stabs. More and more people are flying these ships because they represent the lowest risk vs how effective they are.
Certain ships built for speed like Interceptors and Vagabonds are pretty well balanced IMHO, but when Ishtars, Zealots, Huginns, Rapiers, Lachesis, Arazu, Machariel, Curse, Typhoon (and the rest of the most commonly nanoed ships) are now zooming around at speeds that most webbers can't catch and where even interceptors can't lock these ships after they jump and align to warp before they are gone, then that is the imbalance IMHO.
Personally I think a blanket stacking nerf of speed mods is worse for some ships than others and it is more likely do more harm to the game than good.
The issue really needs each ship to be looked at individually and perhaps have different stacking penalties for each ship, though something tells me CCP won't be this thorough.
Either way Jack, I think you're hoping in vain.
Are the ishtar, zealot, arazu, lachesis, and machariel really too fast with a normal t2 speed fits?
Aren't these ships setup with a nanofit relatively slow if you don't spend a few billion on HG snakes?
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 11:37:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Neon Genesis
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Neon Genesis
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Neon Genesis
Edited by: Neon Genesis on 29/12/2007 10:52:38
There are so many people that just want to pvp like two old gallions firing cannons at each other with no movement at all.
yes that's why we want ships to go slower than 14,000m/s...
and want it to be 10,000
or for it have a risk invovled
please shut up.
no one is asking for no speed.
If you can't catch a ship that doesn't want to be caught going at 14k, how will you catch it at 10k?
I won't be able too but my not-billion isk intersceptor could catch it.
right now speed gets crazy!
Also my idea is that ships could just acellerate slower the faster they go andf get extra mass. less turning.
But then surely ships would still be able to disengage while being unable to use their speed within combat ranges. The same situation we have now? (except for the sacriledge/Cerb)
well no I don't mind ships having speed to run it's ships going 14,000 and orbiting at 40km without losing much speed.
lots of speed like that should make go really far in a sraight line like have a HUGE orbit
meaning if you deside to set your speed to 14km/s you should be orbiting at a forced 130 km.
which is great for running! yay running!
yay scouting!
yay general pising off!
but not yay forever un touchable dampping ship or ECM.
I don't know it's not very offen this happen anyways, but it does happen.
pink supporter!
Future art director at CCP!
or texture guy, either or :P
http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop
Was in class with these folks :P |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 11:39:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Ariel Darklight
Edited by: Ariel Darklight on 29/12/2007 11:33:47
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss
You seem like a nice BRUCE chap, however I've got to depress you by telling you the Live Dev blog with Zulupark stated that speed was considered a problem and most likely some stronger stacking penalties are incomming.
You can debate the why and wherefore until you're blue in the face, but the fact is that nano setups allow non-commital PVP, the same as Warp Core Stabs. More and more people are flying these ships because they represent the lowest risk vs how effective they are.
Certain ships built for speed like Interceptors and Vagabonds are pretty well balanced IMHO, but when Ishtars, Zealots, Huginns, Rapiers, Lachesis, Arazu, Machariel, Curse, Typhoon (and the rest of the most commonly nanoed ships) are now zooming around at speeds that most webbers can't catch and where even interceptors can't lock these ships after they jump and align to warp before they are gone, then that is the imbalance IMHO.
Personally I think a blanket stacking nerf of speed mods is worse for some ships than others and it is more likely do more harm to the game than good.
The issue really needs each ship to be looked at individually and perhaps have different stacking penalties for each ship, though something tells me CCP won't be this thorough.
Either way Jack, I think you're hoping in vain.
Are the ishtar, zealot, arazu, lachesis, and machariel really too fast with a normal t2 speed fits?
Aren't these ships setup with a nanofit relatively slow if you don't spend a few billion on HG snakes?
yes, but the issue is when they use officer fits without any reason not to go as fast as possible.
pink supporter!
Future art director at CCP!
or texture guy, either or :P
http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop
Was in class with these folks :P |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 11:51:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Ariel Darklight
Are the ishtar, zealot, arazu, lachesis, and machariel really too fast with a normal t2 speed fits?
Roll your eyes all you want mate, but in my opinion, (with polycarbon rigs) yes...they are.
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Semkhet
KR0M
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.12.29 12:24:00 -
[66]
To summarize, it all boils down to this:
We live in the 21th century. Most adults lack free time, and players are scattered across many different TZ's. Unless you want exclusively cather on unemployed, people leaving on social benefits and school kids, you can't expect from people that they GENERICALLY can only PvP if they bring equal or bigger numbers like the braindead blob sitting next door in order to avoid committing suicide.
Something I don't allow in RL is for people or institutions to make me loose my time, and I accept that even less in my free time, specially when on top I'm paying to supposedly have fun.
So frankly, CCP better finds a way to allow the full spectrum of PvP styles to take place, from soloing all the way up to fleet battles. If they simply nerf speed without correcting the whole picture, then I quietly will end up putting my accounts on hold, waiting for the day CCP realizes that the basic entity that allows them to function are a bunch of SOLO CREDIT CARDS...
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Van Steiza
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.29 12:58:00 -
[67]
Tbfh with you people Speed and things such as vagabonds have been around longer then some of you have played yet i see people complaining now it has been perfectly fine for so long maybe its becoming VERY popular now that I can understand is a problem when something gets TO popular people start to recognise it and then yell nerf. What they dont understand is speed has been around for a long time its not a recent thing its already been nerfed once.
Even nos was the same thing.
Some of the people I see complaining dont even know what there talking about they see other people saying nerf this nerf that and just agree without actualy knowing anything about pvp or speed.
Bah what ever im not going to waste mah breath.
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Nicoli Voldkif
Caelli-Merced INC.
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2007.12.29 15:44:00 -
[68]
Speed by its self is not a problem. Its speed and agility combined that is the main issue. Currently that is where the balance issues happen with the speed setups. Ships are not only fast but agile enough to make use of that speed extremely well. If they make agility and Speed more of a sliding scale then its fine. Once you have to make a real choice between going faster or being able to turn then speed setups will be balanced, now its too easy to get both.
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