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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.28 07:07:00 -
[1]
the thing I don't understand is why eve doesn't have any rat AI. or missions where you need a team of 20 pilots to get through the mission.
I mean I guess it would take a lot of work but I for one would love to see some more missions that would take tons of ships!
not only that but you would need to keep the logtisics alive like in real PvP.
a system where different modules have different levels of threat?
like if the logtisics ship is repping there is a chance that the rats send the cruiser sized ships at it because they would best for the job.
whatever you opinion you have to agree that right now all you do is have one ship tank while you freely shoot everything else. that's not fun. it should be hard and require strategy.
sadly wow has more strategy when it comes to PVE :(
yes eve's PvP kicks wow ass. but the PvE is really bad... I mean there is an art to doing missions on your own. or in a group of two I guess. but there should be missions where you require a fleet to defeat the other fleet.
I mean you don't just fight pirates.
what about the missions where you fight ammar ships? are you fighting other pod pilots?
I would take a level 4 ammar kill mission where the only ships you have to fight are 2 assault ships and 1 battleship. and that battleship is as strong as a tech 1 player battleship would be. or faction fitted even?
then the reward would be faction loot becuase it was a hard kill. plus you'd have to really think about what to do I mean what if the mission has a repping ship and a sniping cruiser or two with a battleship with blasters?
you have to make sure you could tank the cruisers while fighting the battleship.
or should you take out th support 1st?
right now eve PVE is a cluster ****... :(
yes I guess this is a bit of a rant but I've clearly stated my idea and I'm stated how you could fix it.
MAKE PVE MORE LIKE PVP!
pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P |
Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.12.28 09:14:00 -
[2]
Agree completely.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try The Kano Organisation
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Posted - 2007.12.28 09:19:00 -
[3]
I agree. Though I fear a lot of "EvE is not WoW, got that way --->" posts will fill this thread .
I would like to see stronger rats in general and so a fewer in missions. But don't increase the bounty, we make to much isk as it is. Perhaps add a scaling system, where the amount of people in the gang will determin the amount of rats that will spawn.
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John Grimm
Amarr The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.12.28 09:29:00 -
[4]
/Signed.
That would be great if it were ever implemented.
I would love for a bit more challenge in missions.
I love your idea about faction fitted BSes with a couple of support ships (logistics cruisers, frigs and ceptors that only agro your drone), and to prevent farming of faction stuff, maybe the gate would permit only the mission owning player to enter, with 1 or 2 friends depending on the mission difficulty.
Got to think a bit on it but this is a fantastic idea.
Originally by: Rawne Karrde PVP in EvE is consentual, you agree to it when you login. If you don't like it you're in the wrong game.
Originally by: 3rdD Dave The only safe space in EVE is in 0.0 IMHO. |
Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try The Kano Organisation
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Posted - 2007.12.28 12:06:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Jaketh Ivanes on 28/12/2007 12:07:25
Originally by: John Grimm
I love your idea about faction fitted BSes with a couple of support ships (logistics cruisers, frigs and ceptors that only agro your drone), and to prevent farming of faction stuff, maybe the gate would permit only the mission owning player to enter, with 1 or 2 friends depending on the mission difficulty.
Oh damn, yeah it does open up for farming. But the drop chance could be very low along with the chance of a faction fitted rat showing up at all. Make it more chance based, so only once in every 100 mission do you get a faction fitted rat. And only in 1 of 5 does a mod drop.. or something like that. The spawn and drop chances could be greater in low and null space, as the risk is also greater.. well, mostly in low sec. Could be an insentive to do more mission in low sec.
EDIT: Clarified a bit.
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Vitriol17
Distractions
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Posted - 2007.12.28 13:07:00 -
[6]
Make missions along the lines of the old X-Wing/Tie fighter games, they had great multi objective missions, something like this might be fun.
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Stakhanov
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2007.12.28 13:31:00 -
[7]
Guess why I'm a pirate ?
Eve PvE is rather hollow. Linear missions , sloppy AI. The rats never warp out or bring overwhelming backup if you permatank them. They never regroup or choose not to engage when they don't stand a chance. They are supposed to attack "easy preys" yet repeatedly throw themselves at the strongest ships cruising New Eden.
Attacking pirate leaders should involve some stealth , killing the webbing frigates before the BS boss has a chance to escape , and scramble him. Destroying an empire stronghold should require shock tactics , breaking down their formations before backup (of the untankable kind) arrives.
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Minmatar Citizen 4521577
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Posted - 2007.12.28 13:40:00 -
[8]
I don't like PvE. In fact I hate it. Doesn't matter if the rats are smart or dumb, because what it is is just another mindless grind for isks.
The point of the game is to shoot other people, not some AI controled bunch of pixels.
And if you want PvE more PvP like, heh. It's already blobtastic.
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Buyerr
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Posted - 2007.12.28 16:03:00 -
[9]
your reward is too big, but i do agree that missions should be more like real pvp, but you gotta watch the reward vs. risk and the rats should try to warp off if they can etc.
----------------- fun little game: http://world7.monstersgame.co.uk/?ac=vid&vid=113097917 |
Snowcrash Winterheart2
Gallente Concordia Discors
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Posted - 2007.12.28 16:16:00 -
[10]
Agreed. PvE needs a major, serious overhaul. If EVE is to continue growing and pulling in people from other MMO's it needs to offer a strong PvE section; PvE is, for most people, the money maker and PvP the ISK sink. Look at it this way, if EVE was "pure PvP and nothing but PvP" you'd be able to 'spawn camp' the 1.0 starter stations... try it and see just how fast the GM's ban you.
Rat AI needs a serious overhaul, yes, I am aware that intelligent rats means additional server resources and quite frankly I see it as computational resources well spent. Simply playing "follow the leader" around the grid is a joke especially considering rats can use MWD's in deadspace.
T2 ships need to find their way in to NPC's hands. As do tier 2 BC's and tier 3 BS's. Rats need to be repackaged to stop using blasters/autocannons all the time because, quite honestly they're currently too stupid to do it properly. Same with Mordus ships using rails on Caldari ships; a Mammoth spamming torps/cruise missiles would be a LOT more dangerous than it's current rail + 1 launcher incarnation.
Level 4 missions should include the risk of meeting a officer in a cap ship (a very poor dreadnought but still a dread). Level 3's should include poor battleships. No I really don't care how the NPC faction managed to get a cap ship in high sec space... they just did.
People, I think, like the chain of missions such as Recon, In the Midst of Deadspace and so on, whilst more missions is good, more storyline type chains of missions would be better. This could be extended to a 10 - 20 mission campaign much like the 10 part tutorial mission... but scaled up to meet the needs of L1 - L4 missions.
Whilst Local is nice we need a system of making temporary gangs, perhaps similar to the current corp advert system where you can tick a few boxes, so (deleting as appropriate): I fly a frigate/cruiser/bc/bs/industrial it is T1/T2/Faction, I am DPS/tank/logistics/cargo carrier/Salvager, I am available for level 1/2/3/4/5 missions that are kill/courier/mining. The agent screen should state "you really need X wingmen for this" and link to the adverts (which should also be an icon on station services). Why? Because sometimes your out of your normal stomping ground, no corpies are nearby or want to mission and your bored waiting for 'something' to finish.
----- Four paws... four sets of claws. |
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Dinakheron
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Posted - 2007.12.28 16:35:00 -
[11]
I think that even changing rats stats to more like player ships would be good start. Just look any normal rat BS stats and they are pathetic compared to player BS. Even normal ratting Raven stats wihtout skills would be much more harder opponent than current gurista Ravens (it would do more DPS/tank better and player would have harder fight even against two of them).
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Bob Stuart
Federation Fleet Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2007.12.28 17:31:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dinakheron I think that even changing NPC stats to more like player ships would be good start.
It would be nice that if all NPC ships were infact realistic setups without player skills (we are podpilots afterall).
You mean like this thread posted by my friend a while back?
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Dinakheron
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Posted - 2007.12.28 18:48:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Bob Stuart
Originally by: Dinakheron I think that even changing NPC stats to more like player ships would be good start.
It would be nice that if all NPC ships were infact realistic setups without player skills (we are podpilots afterall).
You mean like this thread posted by my friend a while back?
Pretty much.
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Daelin Blackleaf
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.12.29 03:36:00 -
[14]
This idea comes around from time to time and I agree wholeheartedly on one condition.
The old missions are left in for those who enjoy them or for those who run missions like a miner mines rocks... for ISK that takes time but not effort.
The new additions should be Elite Missions where (according to the fluff) you will be fighting pod equipped pilots of the enemy factions. Tiers of difficulty should be introduced so that a solo player can get a taste of real combat early and so that a corp can face a real challenge.
However...
If done correctly factional warfare could largely replace PvE without the need for creating AI, kill players and get paid for it. Like piracy but with less Yarr and more Tophat and Monacle. Pirates of course could sign up with the outlaw factions and get paid extra for what they do anyway.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.29 08:20:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes I agree. Though I fear a lot of "EvE is not WoW, got that way --->" posts will fill this thread .
I would like to see stronger rats in general and so a fewer in missions. But don't increase the bounty, we make to much isk as it is. Perhaps add a scaling system, where the amount of people in the gang will determin the amount of rats that will spawn.
let me clear up ONE thing ok?
in WoW you fight stuff 10000000000 times stronger than one player. in EvE yo fight ships 1/20th the strength of the player ships.
I don't want either, I want eve to go where no MMORPG has ever gone before.
make NPC pod pilots the SAME strenght as basic player ship set ups.
pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.29 08:28:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf This idea comes around from time to time and I agree wholeheartedly on one condition.
The old missions are left in for those who enjoy them or for those who run missions like a miner mines rocks... for ISK that takes time but not effort.
The new additions should be Elite Missions where (according to the fluff) you will be fighting pod equipped pilots of the enemy factions. Tiers of difficulty should be introduced so that a solo player can get a taste of real combat early and so that a corp can face a real challenge.
However...
If done correctly factional warfare could largely replace PvE without the need for creating AI, kill players and get paid for it. Like piracy but with less Yarr and more Tophat and Monacle. Pirates of course could sign up with the outlaw factions and get paid extra for what they do anyway.
please understand I'm not talking about pirate missions :)
those are fine we are god and they can't even hold a light to our skill and POWER!
I'm worried about the faction missions where you actully FIGHT ammar.
that should not be easy.
so yeah it could have both :)
Also I remember my frist level 1 mission being like OMG! 5 frigates! I'm done for!!!
and permi tanking them without even trying...
they were out of range.
they never once used an afterburner to catch up or a MWD.
and when they did get close I could tank 5 frigates..
so I tried some PVP... opps I can't tank 5 frigates in a rifter.
also the guy about about eve being about PVP and PvE being about grinding.
it doesn't have to be they could build up PVE like they would if eve was one player becuase there is no exp to grind. it would just be like playing chess with a computer. it's hard if not harder than a player some times :P
also on the note of NPCs warping off -make it so if they are protecting something they don't warop off -if they are the objective make it so that ship does try to escape. -Once the objective is complete the NPC left over should have a chance of just running becuase your so scary :P
but yeah this could lead to missions with 20 just as strong as players with no sp ships! and with some better AI, MWDing, swiching targets, the like you would actually need friends to keep you alive.
P.s.(all I do is PvP because PvE sucks :( )
pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.29 08:30:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Bob Stuart
Originally by: Dinakheron I think that even changing NPC stats to more like player ships would be good start.
It would be nice that if all NPC ships were infact realistic setups without player skills (we are podpilots afterall).
You mean like this thread posted by my friend a while back?
wow wouldnm't that also help with the need for speed thing?
plus less wrecks means that it would.. OMG... fix the LP store! tags suck. now it would take a lot less tags.
you kill a faction battleship what do you get? 1 tag.
facton items could be like 5 tags. maybe 10.
I don't know get the economist to figure out how to not kill the tech 2 market.
pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P |
Morty Meer
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Posted - 2007.12.29 14:28:00 -
[18]
100% Agree.
The only way mobs can bother me is causing more damage or attacking me all at the same time. I'd like to see mobs using more sophisticated tactics like warp disruptors, warp bubbles, nosferatu, drones etc.
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Blackfiredaemon
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Posted - 2007.12.29 17:15:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Blackfiredaemon on 29/12/2007 17:16:56 Tbh I disagree, not completely (I can see the benifits) but in my opinion eve is not a game to go out and fight npc's, what would happen to pvp if you created missions that you know you will be able to get a supply of kills on AND get bounties and a reward at the end of it while keeping it as realistic and engaging as pvp? There would be no pvp and the game would become less exiting and risky. There are some who have an abundant supply of isk that would to continue to pvp with each other, perhaps putting these missions in 0.0 sec so the mission runners can be scanned out or gate camped by pvpers would work, but otherwise I disagree.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.29 18:25:00 -
[20]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 29/12/2007 18:24:59
Originally by: Blackfiredaemon Edited by: Blackfiredaemon on 29/12/2007 17:16:56 Tbh I disagree, not completely (I can see the benifits) but in my opinion eve is not a game to go out and fight npc's, what would happen to pvp if you created missions that you know you will be able to get a supply of kills on AND get bounties and a reward at the end of it while keeping it as realistic and engaging as pvp? There would be no pvp and the game would become less exiting and risky. There are some who have an abundant supply of isk that would to continue to pvp with each other, perhaps putting these missions in 0.0 sec so the mission runners can be scanned out or gate camped by pvpers would work, but otherwise I disagree.
faction ships don't give out bounties mate. only tags.
pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P |
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Blackfiredaemon
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Posted - 2007.12.29 18:33:00 -
[21]
Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 29/12/2007 18:24:59
Originally by: Blackfiredaemon Edited by: Blackfiredaemon on 29/12/2007 17:16:56 Tbh I disagree, not completely (I can see the benifits) but in my opinion eve is not a game to go out and fight npc's, what would happen to pvp if you created missions that you know you will be able to get a supply of kills on AND get bounties and a reward at the end of it while keeping it as realistic and engaging as pvp? There would be no pvp and the game would become less exiting and risky. There are some who have an abundant supply of isk that would to continue to pvp with each other, perhaps putting these missions in 0.0 sec so the mission runners can be scanned out or gate camped by pvpers would work, but otherwise I disagree.
faction ships don't give out bounties mate. only tags.
Ok I didn't know that, I'm a pirate through and through . But at the end of the day you are still getting a reward from the mission while in pvp you only get what the enemy drops.
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Rai Kumaki
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Posted - 2007.12.30 00:08:00 -
[22]
I like missions, I'm a mission-runner, but I have a problem with them too. Missions reward antisocial play. Now, there's nothing wrong with playing EVE by yourself, but the game could totally benefit from some middle ground between solo play and competitive play. Co-operative play would be a good answer if you ask me, and missions would be the place to do it. This would need smarter, stronger enemies, and some better objectives than 'kill everything.'
Missions ought to have some new objectives, or more than one objective. Things like defending NPC's, hacking into an enemy networks, or evacuating marines from a besieged outpost. Objectives like these would need you to bring a gang with several different types of ships too - you couldn't beat them with just a bunch of ravens. Also Missions ought to have failure conditions. On a mission where you have to shoot down enemy transports they should try to escape (rather than attack you like they do now, which only makes them easier to beat). As soon as the fighting starts they start running away, and if they get so far they can warp out - then the mission is automatically a failure and you loose standings just like if you gave up (maybe not so much if it's the first time you've ever done that particular mission). Of course there could also be situation where there's some kind of benefit to failing, like if you're defending a transport full of valuable minerals and happen to have a friend nearby in an industrial ship.
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Sphynx Stormlord
Gallente Anqara Tech
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Posted - 2007.12.30 00:48:00 -
[23]
Originally by: MotherMoon
let me clear up ONE thing ok?
in WoW you fight stuff 10000000000 times stronger than one player. in EvE yo fight ships 1/20th the strength of the player ships.
I don't want either, I want eve to go where no MMORPG has ever gone before.
make NPC pod pilots the SAME strenght as basic player ship set ups.
Like, say, Guild Wars did?
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Karjala Inc. Onnenpyora
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Posted - 2007.12.30 01:51:00 -
[24]
PvE (missions especially) could be less grinding more realistic (compared to PvP) teamwork/tactics with higher rewards at the end.
I've been doing missions for a like year now. It was interesting until I made level 4 blockade for liek 10^n times. Reward is every time almost same amount of ISK as bounties, some salvage/loot (if i manage to bother picking them up).
All in all. I feel like a zombie doing lvl 4's. moar dps moar tank grind grind grind...
I've moved into doing something more interesting like exploration and stuff but still missions could be more interesting. I really like the idea that mission would be more like facing a real gatecamp or roaming gang or just spotting targets than just shooting dummies. Of course agents should provide enough intel so you don't need to suicide...
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.30 11:19:00 -
[25]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 30/12/2007 11:18:50
Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord
Originally by: MotherMoon
let me clear up ONE thing ok?
in WoW you fight stuff 10000000000 times stronger than one player. in EvE yo fight ships 1/20th the strength of the player ships.
I don't want either, I want eve to go where no MMORPG has ever gone before.
make NPC pod pilots the SAME strenght as basic player ship set ups.
Like, say, Guild Wars did?
only played for a bit.
the monsters I fought were not as strong as a player.
pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.30 11:21:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn PvE (missions especially) could be less grinding more realistic (compared to PvP) teamwork/tactics with higher rewards at the end.
I've been doing missions for a like year now. It was interesting until I made level 4 blockade for liek 10^n times. Reward is every time almost same amount of ISK as bounties, some salvage/loot (if i manage to bother picking them up).
All in all. I feel like a zombie doing lvl 4's. moar dps moar tank grind grind grind...
I've moved into doing something more interesting like exploration and stuff but still missions could be more interesting. I really like the idea that mission would be more like facing a real gatecamp or roaming gang or just spotting targets than just shooting dummies. Of course agents should provide enough intel so you don't need to suicide...
that's when you boost the scanner on ships that when given locater agent specs (automatically with faction missions) you can scan out the mission area with the on-board scanner and see what's in there.
pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P |
Chi Quan
DEFCON. Phoenix Allianz
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Posted - 2007.12.30 13:33:00 -
[27]
if you want PvE challenge, try lvl 5 missions,exploration and complxes. alot of npcs use warp scrams and other ewar (but even they shun painters ). pve content is made for minimum server load if you want more, go pvp. unlike wow and other mmorpgs, eve is more for player/player interaction. thats what a mmorpg should be about, if i want to play against a computer, i dont need mmorpgs.
-- Tempus fugit -- quote spiralJunkie: it doesn't matter how you pronounce it, it still shoots you in the face |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.30 13:50:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Chi Quan if you want PvE challenge, try lvl 5 missions,exploration and complxes. alot of npcs use warp scrams and other ewar (but even they shun painters ). pve content is made for minimum server load if you want more, go pvp. unlike wow and other mmorpgs, eve is more for player/player interaction. thats what a mmorpg should be about, if i want to play against a computer, i dont need mmorpgs.
I live in 0.0 I PvP all the time.
but that doesn't mean I think PvE is fine in eve.
pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P |
Mica Swanhaven
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Posted - 2007.12.31 08:18:00 -
[29]
hmmm
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Ridickulo
Minmatar Tiger-Shrimp
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Posted - 2007.12.31 16:23:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Ri****ulo on 31/12/2007 16:25:01 WoW mobs have no AI... The quests there just happen to be the main event and as they drive the game they must, obviously, be very well designed.
If you make missions too hard in EVE, players will just leave the game to play WoW. If you make missions too enticing the PvP comunity will drasticly shrink.
Its true that missions could have a little more polish in them but its not a question of AI or strategy or anything of the sort. This is not a level based game where you go raid the elite instances.
Missions are good but they could be spectacular is what you guys are saying. Well, EVE is full of good things unlike WoW that has only one. Tis not that i dont agree...I just think that messing with something that works is dangerous.
PS - LFG channels would be mandatory... :) |
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