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Black-ops not being so high tech

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Sobic Kurophsky Multiversal Enterprise Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.29 04:12:00 - [1] Edited by: Sobic Kurophsky on 29/12/2007 04:13:28 Regardless of there current stats I must first say that I love the release of the Black-ops and its the first ship in EVE to really make me excited. But.... They need some badly needed love. I fly the Widow so I'm going to use it as an example. It has raven type weapon bonuses and the falcons ECM strength bonus MINUS the range bonus and a third the scan resolution. So right there its obvious the Widow is more than a fancy stargate for a couple covert ships. The scan resolution is my biggest gripe as it is the biggest nerf to the widows combat capabilities. My logic works like this. I'm flying a half-o-billion(Unfitted) top of the line T2 battleship that when fitted with a cloak has worse scan res than ALL of my normal non-covert BC->BS ships with the same cloak applied. The Black-ops badly needs an extra bonus negating the scan resolution nerf caused by cloaks(Which the ship is supposed to be built for) If I'm putting a billion isk ship into covert combat I should have basic advantages over the stock burn-raven besides just having instant locking capability like a stealth bomber. I would add specific numbers but CCP has all that data and more in front of them. I'm not recommending them use covert ops II cloaks, but some scan res love would be nice to have as right now a few well placed damps make the Widow a paper thin billion isk bad investment in the lag filled PVP arena of EVE. Battle on... --> Insert hot chick sig here, with minor eve reference<--
Sobic Kurophsky Multiversal Enterprise Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.29 17:20:00 - [2] Black-ops pilots please sign this thread. --> Insert hot chick sig here, with minor eve reference<--
Anti Protagonist Archron Dusyfe Industries Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.12.29 17:35:00 - [3] This makes sense. Ships that are supposed to fit a cloak should be mostly, if not completely, immune to it's negative side-effects. I need a sig....
Blackfiredaemon	Posted - 2007.12.29 17:47:00 - [4] Edited by: Blackfiredaemon on 29/12/2007 17:54:55 Edited by: Blackfiredaemon on 29/12/2007 17:54:03 I do not currently own a black-ops but I am exited by them, once I get a few more sp under my belt it's training for them all the way. The idea of them is exiting but by the time I get one (about 150 days) ccp will porably have nerfed it to hell :(. I'll sign it even though I don't have one. Blackfiredaemon
Loedem Minmatar Knockaround Guys	Posted - 2007.12.30 02:23:00 - [5] I've been envisioning the blackop ships as a limited but versitile ship used for blockade running and sovereignty wars. I agree they shouldn't be able to fit covop II' cloaks as well (would be too overpowering)...but I can definitely agree with the scan resolution, removing that penalty will only encourage more pilots of these ships to engage and risk their investment. Right now I can really only see them running convoys to get sneaky ships in place, then standing by for the next jump. (I don't fly one yet but that's my best guess as to what's happening with them)
BrysonBennington	Posted - 2007.12.30 14:04:00 - [6] Black Op's do not endulge in high priced fancy pretty ships, they go for the lean less noticeable type ships where they can meld into the background and not get noticed. Using a cloak actually negates the black-ops operator due to the fact that you have to de-cloak thus giving your BOO (Black Operation Operative) status away. Any pilot worth their salt would then tag you as being black op's thus nullifying you as an operator. "it's not the size of the ship that matters...it's the motion of the ocean that get's you there."
Hickock Caldari Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.12.31 06:09:00 - [7] /signed -------------- Visit http://extremepredators.com/ for more information.
Thorsten Kabrinski Multiversal Enterprise Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.31 06:12:00 - [8] i must agree.... / signed hm....need a new sig :p
Rogerano Minmatar Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2008.01.02 01:36:00 - [9] This new content (black-ops, etc) was paid for by subscription fees, I assume. Once people reach a certain point they need some sort of extra motivation to keep them paying CCP that money. Ergo, expansions and new ships. But what if the new stuff is completely underwhelming? Black-ops ships are underwhelming. So are marauders. Why? Because their cost versus capability ratio is way out. Please do something about that. --- Not happy with something in EVE? An emo whine will doubtless help your cause.
ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.02 07:05:00 - [10] The marauders are far more useful than black ops in comparison. The only item for debate was the golem's edge (if any) over the CNR.... well and the autocannon-only use of the vargur. Other than that, you can't realy say that an amarr or gallente only mission runner would chose any t1 ship of the respective race over the paladin or the kronos. For the black ops ships, I see myself in the position of having invented some sin bpc's, having the skills/materials to build them, but not actualy building one even for personal use (I can fly all races already)
prathe Minmatar Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.01.02 20:29:00 - [11] Originally by: Anti Protagonist This makes sense. Ships that are supposed to fit a cloak should be mostly, if not completely, immune to it's negative side-effects. signed to this - 100% but add ship not designed to use a cloak have a larger penalty signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected]) why dont you just tell me ?
Sobic Kurophsky Multiversal Enterprise Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.04 05:20:00 - [12] Thank you all for the responses,lets keep this thread alive and on topic. Black Ops need some help to balance the Cost/Capability factor. They all have weapon bonuses so there built to fight. Lets finish the equation. --> Insert hot chick sig here, with minor eve reference<--
Rhohan Minmatar Shadow Of The Light	Posted - 2008.01.04 06:16:00 - [13] I also think the BlackOps need some help. Maybe that will be in the Boost patch, one can only hope. I'm not a BlackOps pilot yet but will be able train the skillbook very soon. I've been undecided on the CovOps cloak, but they should definately have a scan res boost of some kind. After all, they are specialized reconnaissance ships, not glorified jumpbriges. That's what Titans are for. Another thing is the fuel consumption of the Jump Bridge. Maybe allow the BlackOps pilot's Jump Fuel Conservation skill to reduce his gangmates jump fuel use. Maybe not to the extent that his own "Should be", but by some amount. I've read this elsewhere, but the T2 Battleships may have been introduced pre-nerf'd. It's up to us to give CCP constructive feedback to maybe allow these ships to grow to what they should be, without having them become the "Kings" of the Battlefield. They shouldn't be the ultimate goal of all Combat Pilots, but should be more useful.
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.01.04 09:06:00 - [14] I once fitted a Cloak on my Geddon. Didnt even need a co-processor. My cloaked friends just mwd+cloaked the gatecamp then. We killed much. Was fun.
jimmybeech	Posted - 2008.01.15 17:22:00 - [15] the black ops ships absolutly 100% needs a covert ops cloak without this it is totaly useles as a covert ops ship?? its ment to stay undetected.... thats the point?? whats the pointof a 'covert' ship that cant infiltrate?? if it had one,i would buy one,especialy a widow for the ew big bonuses which could be genuinly tacticaly usefull. Why would you want any weapon bonuses thats just not its role it should be a big stealthy force recon flagship not a damage dealing combat ship. you dont get many weapon points anyway so its not like you can do any real damage so its just a wast much beter off with EW mods and a usefull cloak. and the fule issue is a real problem in practice and could definatly use a little tweaking its too underpowerd and thirsty thow i wouldnt change it that much. signed
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2008.01.15 18:42:00 - [16] Originally by: Sobic Kurophsky Edited by: Sobic Kurophsky on 29/12/2007 04:13:28 Regardless of there current stats I must first say that I love the release of the Black-ops and its the first ship in EVE to really make me excited. But.... They need some badly needed love. I fly the Widow so I'm going to use it as an example. It has raven type weapon bonuses and the falcons ECM strength bonus MINUS the range bonus and a third the scan resolution. So right there its obvious the Widow is more than a fancy stargate for a couple covert ships. The scan resolution is my biggest gripe as it is the biggest nerf to the widows combat capabilities. My logic works like this. I'm flying a half-o-billion(Unfitted) top of the line T2 battleship that when fitted with a cloak has worse scan res than ALL of my normal non-covert BC->BS ships with the same cloak applied. The Black-ops badly needs an extra bonus negating the scan resolution nerf caused by cloaks(Which the ship is supposed to be built for) If I'm putting a billion isk ship into covert combat I should have basic advantages over the stock burn-raven besides just having instant locking capability like a stealth bomber. I would add specific numbers but CCP has all that data and more in front of them. I'm not recommending them use covert ops II cloaks, but some scan res love would be nice to have as right now a few well placed damps make the Widow a paper thin billion isk bad investment in the lag filled PVP arena of EVE. Battle on... Spend a bit more on sensor boosters/sensor booster rigs? --------------------------------- Oh noes!
Westen Caldari Drones Of Annihilation. Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2008.01.15 19:05:00 - [17] signed for scan res correction I still refuse even thinking about putting a cov-ops cloak on the black-ops as they currently are. The Sin would be like the old Nos-Domi, but worse! ALL T2 ships are meant for specific roles. T2 is primarily support for a bulk fleet of T1 BS. If the black-ops gets the covops cloak everyone would fly it and it would become the new ship of choice for all combat. T1 BS would eliminated for the bulk of most fleets except for the younger players. This cannot be allowed b/c CCP wants the "old world" stand in a line and shoot each other battles. CCP does not want covert/EW combat. Look at the changes in the past year...damps=suck, sniping=suck, 1.5 X HP increase=tanking. CCP wants to eliminate all strategy from this game. Battles will be upclose slug-fests, making the larger fleet the winner everytime. It is very sad what has happened to this game that I used to love playing. I have invested too much time and money to simply stop now.
Leviathan9 Gallente Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.01.15 20:08:00 - [18] Originally by: Westen signed for scan res correction I still refuse even thinking about putting a cov-ops cloak on the black-ops as they currently are. The Sin would be like the old Nos-Domi, but worse! ALL T2 ships are meant for specific roles. T2 is primarily support for a bulk fleet of T1 BS. If the black-ops gets the covops cloak everyone would fly it and it would become the new ship of choice for all combat. T1 BS would eliminated for the bulk of most fleets except for the younger players. This cannot be allowed b/c CCP wants the "old world" stand in a line and shoot each other battles. CCP does not want covert/EW combat. Look at the changes in the past year...damps=suck, sniping=suck, 1.5 X HP increase=tanking. CCP wants to eliminate all strategy from this game. Battles will be upclose slug-fests, making the larger fleet the winner everytime. It is very sad what has happened to this game that I used to love playing. I have invested too much time and money to simply stop now. I see what you mean mate, but tbh Black Ops are the most pointless utter piece of crap ever... Whats the point in only allowing Cov-ops ships?? Why can't it jump all ships or something?? Tier 1 bs's are much better anf worth isk the only think you can't do on the tier 1 bs is jump cov-ops ships.... ooh noes. Black Ops should be nerfed out of the game. I got a better tank and dmg output from a Domi than a Sin... Why should i spend half a bil on a ship that has no use? Either that or the ship class should drop in price rapidly.. ----------------------------

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