Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |

Rezerwowy Pies
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 18:45:00 -
[1]
From few years people buying computers with 64bit processors. We have 64bit systems (WinXP 64, Win Vista 64 etc) but EVE client is still 32bit. Simple question: Why?
Anybody knows something about 64bit version of EVE client, maybe Dev response? Are you working on it?
|

Strak Yogorn
Amarr Mind Warpers
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 19:42:00 -
[2]
one can only hope they work on something while doing the dx10 client/gfx ... its just sad how few games actually use the hw ppl got ..
|

Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This Derek Knows Us
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 19:44:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Rezerwowy Pies From few years people buying computers with 64bit processors. We have 64bit systems (WinXP 64, Win Vista 64 etc) but EVE client is still 32bit. Simple question: Why?
Anybody knows something about 64bit version of EVE client, maybe Dev response? Are you working on it?
Nope. They have done some 64 bit work server side for addressing purposes, but client side, no. I don't think it would matter much for the client, anyways so who cares.
Originally by: Riethe You know the female who does the voice for Aura? Do you ever think when she's alone with her boyfriend, she's like... "Docking request accepted" ?
|

Feng Schui
Minmatar The Ninja Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.12.29 20:41:00 -
[4]
64 bit windows is too unstable. At least, Win XP 64 and 64 bit Vista.
|

Alice Atphosea
|
Posted - 2007.12.30 00:46:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Feng Schui 64 bit windows is too unstable. At least, Win XP 64 and 64 bit Vista.
I've been using Windows XP x64 for two years now and I haven't had any major problems.
"Making EVE 64-bit" is much easier said than done. I'm sure with a few heavy-handed hacks EVE could be compiled into a 64-bit binary, but the performance wouldn't be any better than the 32-bit client we have right now. To properly take advantage of 64-bit and get any kind of 'speed boost' out of it, you have to redesign parts or the entirety of your software. And then of course there are the arch-specific bugs that come along with that conversion.
I have no doubt that if EVE is still alive two years from now (and I have no doubt that it will) we'll be seeing a 64-bit client, simply because there wont be a single new computer that doesn't have a 64-bit processor. It'll just be common sense for CCP to make the shift into 64-bit processing in the near future, but right now you still have to weigh the benefits of redesigning/tweaking vs. fixing content, server upgrades, and any of the other things CCP has to spend time/money on, simply because the majority of people are still using 32-bit systems.
|

Vinni
Caldari All Sales Are Final
|
Posted - 2007.12.30 04:49:00 -
[6]
right now, it would only be beneficial when EVE used 4GB of ram on the client
|

Zeph Solaris
Legitimate Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.12.30 08:04:00 -
[7]
For a game that just started using the GPU, I cant help but laugh at this thread. Why dont you ask for AA first? At least then EVE would look better.
|

Rezerwowy Pies
|
Posted - 2007.12.30 16:29:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Zeph Solaris For a game that just started using the GPU, I cant help but laugh at this thread. Why dont you ask for AA first? At least then EVE would look better.
Why i should ask for something that works fine? If you dont know how turn on aa and/or af ,its your problem, not ccp.
|

Snowcrash Winterheart2
Gallente Concordia Discors
|
Posted - 2007.12.30 16:54:00 -
[9]
I would personally prefer them to continue working on the GFX side of things to fully enable multiple displays. Having said that a side project of turning EVE in to a full SMP aware, 64bit client would be kinda nice.
But, as my "SMP client" was pooh poohed, I must pooh pooh this in a tit for tat retribution.
----- Four paws... four sets of claws. |

NightKhaos
Gallente Seridian Mining Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.12.30 21:39:00 -
[10]
Pre-compiled binaries are easier to compile in 32bit as they support legacy (32bit) processors out of the box. Windows is a long way off from being 64bit, currently they have a (buggy) 64bit kernel and that's about it. Microsoft doesn't have the incentive to update to 64bit, and that includes DirectX. Because of this, all games for the near future HAVE to be 32bit. If you want true 64bit, use a Mac or Linux. Their 64bit OSes ARE truely 64bit, with some minor exceptions.
CPU: Intel Core2 T5500 @ 1.66 RAM: 1024 GPU: nVidia GeForce Go 7300 GPU Drivers: 2.1.1 NVIDIA 100.14.19 Sound Card: HDA Intel Sound Card Driver: ALSA Version 1.0.14 Kernel: 2.6.23-gentoo-r3
|

nomis ekoobmah
Minmatar Republic University
|
Posted - 2007.12.31 02:20:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Rezerwowy Pies
Originally by: Zeph Solaris For a game that just started using the GPU, I cant help but laugh at this thread. Why dont you ask for AA first? At least then EVE would look better.
Why i should ask for something that works fine? If you dont know how turn on aa and/or af ,its your problem, not ccp.
I think Zeph might be on about the HDR+AA problem that is afflicting some of us, although that isn't CCP's problem either it's a DirectX and graphics card driver issue.
|

achoura
|
Posted - 2007.12.31 02:28:00 -
[12]
Actually aa works fine for some, and it has no actual in game support which is what it needs if you want nvidia to add it to their drivers. I forced aa after trinity just fine, then after the last patch it just stopped working (thx), in fact EvE is the only game i use that doesn't do aa which is honestly a crying shame after they went to the trouble of getting hdr working fine, when only a handful of cards in their user base run it well while every card capable of running premium will do aa well.
It is however, an easily attainable short term goal, unlike 64bit (as much as i'd love that.)
Actually the only downside to a 64 bit client would be the coding (+ whatever crappy drivers hardware companies still spit out). Pity it's only a spec in the distance.  ***The EVE servers and their patches*** |

Washell Olivaw
|
Posted - 2007.12.31 04:11:00 -
[13]
Lots of people were worrying about the graphics update and their computer. DX10 has been postponed to somewhere in 08 because very few people are using it. I think 64 bit client is years into the future.
Quote: Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
|

Verite Rendition
Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus
|
Posted - 2007.12.31 09:57:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Vinni right now, it would only be beneficial when EVE used 4GB of ram on the client
It would be 2GB actually, not 4GB. The problem is the 2GB per-process memory address limit; even though the system as a whole can address around 4GB of memory in 32bit mode, a single Win32 application can only address 2GB of that. Still, EVE isn't even close to hitting that barrier at the moment.
And what's all this talk about 64bit being unstable? Vista64 is a fully qualified 64bit OS, complete with the same (non-deprecated) APIs as the 32bit version, including DirectX. It's every bit as stable and functional as the 32bit version. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map |

Ammon Skycloud
Caldari Matari Research Foundation Empire Research
|
Posted - 2008.01.01 15:47:00 -
[15]
Originally by: NightKhaos .....
CPU: Intel Core2 T5500 @ 1.66 RAM: 1024 GPU: nVidia GeForce Go 7300 GPU Drivers: 2.1.1 NVIDIA 100.14.19 Sound Card: HDA Intel Sound Card Driver: ALSA Version 1.0.14 Kernel: 2.6.23-gentoo-r3
LOL
|

Kyra Felann
Gallente Elite Storm Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.01.01 16:20:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Feng Schui 64 bit windows is too unstable. At least, Win XP 64 and 64 bit Vista.
Which is why mine never crashes.
Don't post random disinformation, plxkthx.
|

Kyra Felann
Gallente Elite Storm Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.01.01 16:27:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Verite Rendition And what's all this talk about 64bit being unstable? Vista64 is a fully qualified 64bit OS, complete with the same (non-deprecated) APIs as the 32bit version, including DirectX. It's every bit as stable and functional as the 32bit version.
People like spouting off "facts" they hear but don't understand.
I've been using Vista64 as the OS on my only Windows machine for however long Vista's been out (which according to the FUD floating around the internet should be a black hole of suckiness) and have had no issues at all. I would prefer Linux, but for a gaming machine Windows is pretty much the way to go.
Hellgate: London seems to have a 64-bit executable, but most games don't. That said, I'd rather see dual-monitor support and other things like new effects, new planets, DX10 support, and ambulation before 64-bit Eve. I just wouldn't think there'd be that much of a difference between 64-bit Eve and 32-bit Eve.
|

Arana Tellen
Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
|
Posted - 2008.01.02 00:01:00 -
[18]
Work vs. reward, 64bit sounds fine and dandy but unless the client is likely to gain a lot of speed its pointless to convert it when other changes require less work and give better performance increases. ---------------------------------
Oh noes! |

Hawk Fireblade
|
Posted - 2008.01.02 00:39:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kyra Felann
Originally by: Feng Schui 64 bit windows is too unstable. At least, Win XP 64 and 64 bit Vista.
Which is why mine never crashes.
Don't post random disinformation, plxkthx.
Word!
64 Bit is the future especially for high end SLI machines it's a must.
|

NightKhaos
Gallente Seridian Mining Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.01.03 23:54:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Verite Rendition
Originally by: Vinni right now, it would only be beneficial when EVE used 4GB of ram on the client
It would be 2GB actually, not 4GB. The problem is the 2GB per-process memory address limit; even though the system as a whole can address around 4GB of memory in 32bit mode, a single Win32 application can only address 2GB of that. Still, EVE isn't even close to hitting that barrier at the moment.
And what's all this talk about 64bit being unstable? Vista64 is a fully qualified 64bit OS, complete with the same (non-deprecated) APIs as the 32bit version, including DirectX. It's every bit as stable and functional as the 32bit version.
This is not entirely accurate, this is just a byproduct of the Windows API. Windows limits the amount of memory addressing to 2GB, but that doesn't mean you can't force an application to address more than 2GB. In fact, for a lot of modern games, it's a must. Just do a search for Supreme Commander + Crashing + 2GB Limit and you'll get heaps of results about how to force applications to address more than 2GB.
CPU: Intel Core2 T5500 @ 1.66 RAM: 1024 GPU: nVidia GeForce Go 7300 GPU Drivers: 2.1.1 NVIDIA 100.14.19 Sound Card: HDA Intel Sound Card Driver: ALSA Version 1.0.14 Kernel: 2.6.23-gentoo-r3
|

Bohoba
Caldari The Dragons Den
|
Posted - 2008.01.04 05:56:00 -
[21]
64 bit would be nice to use my system to it's fullist :)
3DMark06 bench mark 16198
OS Name Microsoft« Windows VistaÖ Ultimate System Type x64-based PC Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.System Model X38-DQ6 Processor Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Extreme CPU Q6850 @ 3.00GHz, 3015 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s) BIOS Version/Date Award Software International, Inc. F6b, 10/30/2007 SMBIOS Version 2.4 Total Physical Memory 4,093.69 MB ddr2 1066 Name SONY DVD RW DRU-840A SCSI CdRom Device 2X ASUS EAH3870/G/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 3870 512MB 256-bit GDDR4 PCI Express 2.0 HDCP Ready CrossFire setup
I Don't Play games, I play Eve Online !!!
Get Into the Game it makes it fun for all |

Creh Ester
|
Posted - 2008.01.04 13:04:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Creh Ester on 04/01/2008 13:06:06
Originally by: NightKhaos
Originally by: Verite Rendition
Originally by: Vinni right now, it would only be beneficial when EVE used 4GB of ram on the client
It would be 2GB actually, not 4GB. The problem is the 2GB per-process memory address limit; even though the system as a whole can address around 4GB of memory in 32bit mode, a single Win32 application can only address 2GB of that. Still, EVE isn't even close to hitting that barrier at the moment.
And what's all this talk about 64bit being unstable? Vista64 is a fully qualified 64bit OS, complete with the same (non-deprecated) APIs as the 32bit version, including DirectX. It's every bit as stable and functional as the 32bit version.
This is not entirely accurate, this is just a byproduct of the Windows API. Windows limits the amount of memory addressing to 2GB, but that doesn't mean you can't force an application to address more than 2GB. In fact, for a lot of modern games, it's a must. Just do a search for Supreme Commander + Crashing + 2GB Limit and you'll get heaps of results about how to force applications to address more than 2GB.
...And in fact the 3GB switch doesn't solve the problem. 64bit does. Which is why 64bit OS and 64bit clients are absolute future necessities. In fact you could say that for those games 64bit is a necessity already today. The arbitrary crashes they suffer are related to 32bit code not being able to manage the memory requirements. Setting the 3GB switch, which enables them to use one GB of virtual space normally reserved for mapping shared data, alleviates the problem to a state where they may be playable. But it doesn't solve the fundamental problem and it won't work for next generation games.
And oh, the process can't use 2GB or 3GB. That's just the virtual space of available adress numbers. Since virtual space becomes fragmented you run aground much sooner. In 64bit code it works the opposite way. The virtual space is much, much larger than mapable memory. Which means you'll never run out of space. You'll eventually run out of adressable memory, ram and swap, instead. And due to the paged mapping that memory doesn't become fragmented. So you can use it all. 64-bit isn't a performance thing. It's a capability thing. 32-bit can't do more than it does today. We're at the end of the line. EVE client is not quite there yet. But it probably will be. Add things like planetary flight and landings. And walking about inside stations... EVE will be up against 32bit limitations soon enough.
|

Hawk Fireblade
|
Posted - 2008.01.04 20:13:00 -
[23]
It's not just that its also because of the technical limitations of addressing space and the impact it has on newer higher spec machines especially the newer DX10 cards, and other devices with alot of memory that are becomming more and more common in PC's.
32 bit Vista and good DX10 card is kinda painful, 2 in SLI or crossfire it's plain impractical.
It's long time I think a dx10 64 bit client was on the burner.
|

NightKhaos
Gallente Seridian Mining Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.01.04 22:27:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Creh Ester Edited by: Creh Ester on 04/01/2008 13:28:04 Edited by: Creh Ester on 04/01/2008 13:06:06
Originally by: NightKhaos
Originally by: Verite Rendition
Originally by: Vinni right now, it would only be beneficial when EVE used 4GB of ram on the client
It would be 2GB actually, not 4GB. The problem is the 2GB per-process memory address limit; even though the system as a whole can address around 4GB of memory in 32bit mode, a single Win32 application can only address 2GB of that. Still, EVE isn't even close to hitting that barrier at the moment.
And what's all this talk about 64bit being unstable? Vista64 is a fully qualified 64bit OS, complete with the same (non-deprecated) APIs as the 32bit version, including DirectX. It's every bit as stable and functional as the 32bit version.
This is not entirely accurate, this is just a byproduct of the Windows API. Windows limits the amount of memory addressing to 2GB, but that doesn't mean you can't force an application to address more than 2GB. In fact, for a lot of modern games, it's a must. Just do a search for Supreme Commander + Crashing + 2GB Limit and you'll get heaps of results about how to force applications to address more than 2GB.
...And in fact the 3GB switch doesn't solve the problem. 64bit does. Which is why 64bit OS and 64bit clients are absolute future necessities. In fact you could say that for those games 64bit is a necessity already today. The arbitrary crashes they suffer are related to 32bit code not being able to manage the memory requirements. It's not "a byproduct of the Windows API". Windows32 program model abides by it yes, but it's a fundamental property of 32-bit code. Setting the 3GB switch, which enables them to use one GB of virtual space normally reserved for mapping shared data, alleviates the problem to a state where they may be playable. But it doesn't solve the fundamental problem and it won't work for next generation games.
And oh, the process can't use 2GB or 3GB. That's just the virtual space of available adress numbers. Since virtual space becomes fragmented you run aground much sooner. In 64bit code it works the opposite way. The virtual space is much, much larger than mapable memory. Which means you'll never run out of space. You'll eventually run out of adressable memory, ram and swap, instead. And due to the paged mapping that memory doesn't become fragmented. So you can use it all. 64-bit isn't a performance thing. It's a capability thing. 32-bit can't do more than it does today. We're at the end of the line. EVE client is not quite there yet. But it probably will be. Add things like planetary flight and landings. And walking about inside stations... EVE will be up against 32bit limitations soon enough.
All 32bit applications are capable of addressing a total of 4GB. The reason this 2GB limit is in place is because the extended memory support that was introduced in 16bit OSes was removed in favor of the current, more efficient, mapping system because of Microsoft was under the impression that no PC would EVER need more than 1GB of memory, so the 4GB limit was considered to be impossible to pass.
Another reason why the 3GB hack isn't and ideal solution is Windows' paging system is wholly inefficient. Or at least it was until Vista (however Vista has other problems which makes this achievement go unnoticed by the media). I'm not saying this is a bad idea, I just can't see it having any tangible benefits to EVE in Windows, most noticeably, DirectXs, current state.
I was not saying that switching to 64bit is a bad idea. I'm saying that because DirectX, and many other applications, are still only 32bit binaries, switching to 64bit doesn't account for much, espically in an applications that currently needs no where NEAR the 2GB threshold. Unless they actually have made DirectX 64bit, I will stand corrected.
CPU: Intel Core2 T5500 @ 1.66 RAM: 1024 GPU: nVidia GeForce Go 7300 GPU Drivers: 2.1.1 NVIDIA 100.14.19 Sound Card: HDA Intel Sound Card Driver: ALSA Version 1.0.14 Kernel: 2.6.23-gentoo-r3
|

NightKhaos
Gallente Seridian Mining Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.01.04 22:28:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ammon Skycloud
Originally by: NightKhaos .....
CPU: Intel Core2 T5500 @ 1.66 RAM: 1024 GPU: nVidia GeForce Go 7300 GPU Drivers: 2.1.1 NVIDIA 100.14.19 Sound Card: HDA Intel Sound Card Driver: ALSA Version 1.0.14 Kernel: 2.6.23-gentoo-r3
LOL
I don't get it... what's funny?
CPU: Intel Core2 T5500 @ 1.66 RAM: 1024 GPU: nVidia GeForce Go 7300 GPU Drivers: 2.1.1 NVIDIA 100.14.19 Sound Card: HDA Intel Sound Card Driver: ALSA Version 1.0.14 Kernel: 2.6.23-gentoo-r3
|

Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter. Vae Victis.
|
Posted - 2008.01.05 00:29:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Emperor D''Hoffryn on 05/01/2008 00:29:05
Originally by: NightKhaos removed for length
even if you have 4gb in your 32-bit machine, no application can use it.
Its very simple as to why. Lets say you have a 768 mb geforce 8800 gtx. the problem is is that the 768mb of video memory is memory mapped onto your system memory. This is done for a veriety of reasons, but an important one is to read back things from the video card, for things such as 3D rendering and modeling.
so in the above example, the system REALLY has only 4bg - 768mb of memory...and actually less, theres other areas that are shadowed for specific hardware uses, at different address locations depending on when the standard was implemented.
You can see this for yourself in windows, open device manager, then at the top go view->resources by type, then expand the memory section. Each entry is a reserved area in memory, it will show the address range thats reserved, and the device that is reserving it. This memory is NOT usuable by other applications.
when the system and OS are 64-bit (with BIOS support), these memory holes can be remapped to MUCH higher addresses spaces, and then you would actually have access to the 4gb of memory in your 4bg system.
in short, dont buy 4gbs of memory right now, you are wasting your money.
Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
|

Fovo
|
Posted - 2008.01.05 05:08:00 -
[27]
Ok Stupid question
What is " HDR+AA "
Seriously I have no Idea..
|

Villa
Amarr Evolution
|
Posted - 2008.01.05 10:18:00 -
[28]
High Dynamic Range, which has to do with how light gets calculated on your video card, and AA is Anti aliasing, which makes those jagged lines less jagged, basically by interpolating the color of pixels from the color of pixels around them, I'll save you the details on high resolution mappings and that stuff.
|

Tivookz
Caldari The Singularity Amalgamation Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.01.05 10:40:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Feng Schui 64 bit windows is too unstable. At least, Win XP 64 and 64 bit Vista.
Are you referring to the beta version of it that was released over a year ago or are you high or something?
Because I have Vista x64 and it works like a charm, haven't crashed on me yet and I have had no problems with it whatsoever so please, don't post stuff you don't know a thing about plzkthx.
|

Villa
Amarr Evolution
|
Posted - 2008.01.05 10:57:00 -
[30]
And in response to the original question, which got sidetracked:
I run vistax64 ultimate as well, 4 gb ram with a 8800 gt and have no problems with stablilty issues. A few game bugs were in at the first such as the adressable memory range being limited to 2 gigs but those have been hotpatched long ago. The only slightly annoying thing is the enhanced security features over 32bit, but when you have are your stuff installed it's not much of a problem anymore and it keep your pc a lot safer then a 32bit version. I can even run 2 clients of a Single install again without a hitch. havent been able to do that since Castor if anyone still remebers that, since it was 3-4 years ago or something like it.
Greetz Villa
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |