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Morcam	Posted - 2007.12.29 23:06:00 - [1] If you think this is in the wrong forum, move it. First, some disclaimers before I begin. 1. This is not a whine. 2. I have not been owned, pwned, pwnt, obliterated, killed, interdicted, or been affected in any way by the new heavy interdictors. 3. I'm trying to start a constructive conversation, not a flame war. 4. I've been in lowsec. 5. I'm an INDUSTRIALIST. (I go into 0.0 and lowsec) 6. I don't like getting killed. (Just in case you didn't know) K? Ok, so I know that our new heavy interdictors can use a focused script to scramble various ships, including supercaps. This is good. I also know that the same interdictor can use that same focused script to scramble any ship in lowsec, completely overcoming warp core stabilizers. This is the part that I think is imbalanced. Warp scramblers/disruptors are made to stop ships from warping away in lowsec, and can be countered by warp core stabilizers. Stabs have downsides, so this allows players not looking for a fight to have a chance to get away. If a pirate is really determined to get a player with stabs, though, he can bring in some friends and get the person who isn't looking for a fight. Heavy Interdictors, on the other hand, can BBQ warp core stabilizers, and cannot be countered by a ship not looking for a fight. Once the hauler gets hit by the HACtor, it is dead. Personally, I think that HACtors should be able to only use focused scripts on capital ships (or just supercaps) in lowsec. They keep all their other bonuses for being a heavy interdictor. You could also just turn it into a very strong warp disruptor in lowsec. And I'm not looking for "ADAPT OR DIE N00B!!11!!!!" Discuss
Jimer Lins Gallente Pod Six Research	Posted - 2007.12.29 23:09:00 - [2] The balancing factor is that with focused scripts they have to maintain a target lock. So break that and you can warp out; bubbles and normal dictors are just area effect. Damps with range script + cloak (to get aligned) may work. Of course, avoiding the thing in the first place works better, using a scout or a covops to check things out first is best. Haven't hit one yet but they certainly make it more interesting to travel through lowsec.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.29 23:12:00 - [3] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 29/12/2007 23:15:30 Currently WCS have lost any meaning. The only counter to gatecamps is very fast warping speed or a cloak (better both). Naturally that mean that moving BC/BS in low sec is a pain in the a*** as the only option is the cloak and slowboating away from the campers ships before warping. To the poster above, scout work only if an alternate route exist (and usually the camped point haven't alternate routes), yes they avoid ship loss but don't make the gatecamp moreeasy to bypass.
konkord eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.29 23:13:00 - [4] it makes heavy dictors a feasible ship for multiple play styles. And thus why people will fly it - however, as th other guy said you need a stable lock, and if that means lowsec running with stabs and damps then so be it.
Captain Thunk Captain Morgan Society	Posted - 2007.12.29 23:17:00 - [5] Edited by: Captain Thunk on 29/12/2007 23:17:09 They also work just fine in highsec. I think solo industrialists should be able to warp around wherever the hell they like AFK without any interference from any body else - anything else surely ruins the game they want to play. CCP should nerf HACTORS to hell and back and possibly, while they're at it, add a flag so people can just turn off PvP against them as they may well not be in the mood or be in a ship that can't fight back. Sounds like a plan to me. THUNK!
gordonthemaster	Posted - 2007.12.29 23:19:00 - [6] hi, It¦s not about addapting to circumstances here. How man times have u been to low sec? Seriously there is war in low sec and also death and killing and yeah you even will get ur ship killed. Believe it or not that is what low sec is for. Ive been in low sec as well, and I got my ass hit hard. So avoid going there if ur smart. Theres plenty of space for you in high sec. All you describe is reality! Theres nothing u can change about. :( So what about staying in high sec? Otherwise join a corp who has been "living" in low sec for a while and team up with them. Then there may be a chance for you. No hard feelings pls ;) What else is ur point or question apart from ur "nice story??
Morcam	Posted - 2007.12.29 23:21:00 - [7] Originally by: Captain Thunk Edited by: Captain Thunk on 29/12/2007 23:17:09 They also work just fine in highsec. I think solo industrialists should be able to warp around wherever the hell they like AFK without any interference from any body else - anything else surely ruins the game they want to play. CCP should nerf HACTORS to hell and back and possibly, while they're at it, add a flag so people can just turn off PvP against them as they may well not be in the mood or be in a ship that can't fight back. Sounds like a plan to me. THUNK! The stupidity of this post astounds me. Go back and read my post again, and try not to freak out the second I mention your precious little HACtor.
DarknessInc Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.12.29 23:27:00 - [8] Originally by: Morcam I also know that the same interdictor can use that same focused script to scramble any ship in lowsec, completely overcoming warp core stabilizers. This is the part that I think is imbalanced. Warp scramblers/disruptors are made to stop ships from warping away in lowsec, and can be countered by warp core stabilizers. Stabs have downsides, so this allows players not looking for a fight to have a chance to get away. If a pirate is really determined to get a player with stabs, though, he can bring in some friends and get the person who isn't looking for a fight. 1. I am a Broadsword Pilot 2. Normally a Dictor has a LOW scan resolution. Your gonna have to stick around for a short while for it to get a lock on you. If this is lowsec and he is 'alone', he's fitted for a passive shield tank. If its with a few buddies, he can be sensor boosted. But this isnt the broadsword itself making it so powerful. Its the teamwork of the fleet. By itself, the Broadsword/dictor is a slow locker. OR this scenario. Medium-Large scale gatecamp in lowsec. Broadsword is fitted with sensorboosters, and has a reasonable locktime by itself. Tank is sacrificed and the ship itself relies on its teammates to keep it alive by cycling the turrets onto multiple different people. What is the major thing? Teamwork. Teamwork should not be nerfed because, thats what Heavy Dictors require. The low scan rez which can let any 2x Nano, 2x WCS hauler to get away cripples its main offensive weapon, the Disruption Field Generator. To bring it up to a decent effective camping weapon, it requires teamwork to either ENHANCE its scan rez or defend it against the gate guns. In the end. Shut Up. Broadsword's fine. Stay out of lowsec/0.0 if you dont like it. Fit Nanos&WCS&Damps and dont fly what you cant afford Originally by: Viator Pilot Now I will go back to agents, already without the desire of adventures on the ass :)
Morcam	Posted - 2007.12.29 23:27:00 - [9] Originally by: gordonthemaster hi, It¦s not about addapting to circumstances here. How man times have u been to low sec? Seriously there is war in low sec and also death and killing and yeah you even will get ur ship killed. Believe it or not that is what low sec is for. Ive been in low sec as well, and I got my ass hit hard. So avoid going there if ur smart. Theres plenty of space for you in high sec. All you describe is reality! Theres nothing u can change about. :( So what about staying in high sec? Otherwise join a corp who has been "living" in low sec for a while and team up with them. Then there may be a chance for you. No hard feelings pls ;) What else is ur point or question apart from ur "nice story?? I personally think that everything in EVE should have a counter on a viable scale. Cloaks and trial account scouts don't really seem to be a great counter, but I can use them both, and I will, if there's no other way. I just think that a warp scrambler that cannot be stopped by both brute force (Some kind of stabilizer) and finesse (Speed/Cloaks) is imbalanced.
Jimer Lins Gallente Pod Six Research	Posted - 2007.12.29 23:29:00 - [10] Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 29/12/2007 23:15:30 Currently WCS have lost any meaning. The only counter to gatecamps is very fast warping speed or a cloak (better both). Naturally that mean that moving BC/BS in low sec is a pain in the a*** as the only option is the cloak and slowboating away from the campers ships before warping. To the poster above, scout work only if an alternate route exist (and usually the camped point haven't alternate routes), yes they avoid ship loss but don't make the gatecamp moreeasy to bypass. I've never seen a chokepoint that couldn't be avoided, assuming you're willing to go the long way. I've said before many times, if you're willing to detour through 2 or 3 other regions, you can find a way around. Balance the time lost doing 30, 40 or even 50 extra jumps with the loss of your stuff. If you think the camp will be gone before you make that trip, then go rat until it is. If not or you really need to move it, plan a longer route. The autopilot and the routes it plans are intended to kill you. Don't use it. Get Ombey's 2D maps, plan your own routes and live. The only exception would be a dead-end system having its entry system camped for some reason (Molden Heath has a few like that). In that case, wait or fit for speed.
N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.12.29 23:32:00 - [11] Quote: I just think that a warp scrambler that cannot be stopped by both brute force (Some kind of stabilizer) and finesse (Speed/Cloaks) is imbalanced. ECM -- ISD Valorem: I choose you!
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.29 23:34:00 - [12] Originally by: gordonthemaster hi, It¦s not about addapting to circumstances here. How man times have u been to low sec? Seriously there is war in low sec and also death and killing and yeah you even will get ur ship killed. Believe it or not that is what low sec is for. Ive been in low sec as well, and I got my ass hit hard. So avoid going there if ur smart. Theres plenty of space for you in high sec. All you describe is reality! Theres nothing u can change about. :( So what about staying in high sec? Otherwise join a corp who has been "living" in low sec for a while and team up with them. Then there may be a chance for you. No hard feelings pls ;) What else is ur point or question apart from ur "nice story?? The OP is only asking an opinion, nor lamenting the new situation. It is pretti evident that the Heavy interdictors are there to stay. They have removed the little use that was left for Warp Core Stabilizers (and the WCS bonus of the blockade runners). So the only way is to adapt. As you have pointed out that include avoiding low sec even more. Rewards are still only a little better than high sec and risk is way higher. The solution, as always is to stay in high sec or go straight in 0.0, after the gatecamps it is pretty secure and at least you gain enough to pay for the ships lost.
dreamingtoday	Posted - 2007.12.29 23:34:00 - [13] oh my god if you people cannot think of a solution to a prob you all shout nerf there are multiple ways to get past a dictor just use your brains!! I've seen multiple pilots do it in low sec i've done it myself so stop whining
Kharadran Sullath Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.29 23:35:00 - [14] Not to mention the fact that hactors can do damage almost as good as HAC's... ------ Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull** and troll. If you are deaf**, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
Morcam	Posted - 2007.12.29 23:39:00 - [15] Edited by: Morcam on 29/12/2007 23:40:17 Originally by: dreamingtoday oh my god if you people cannot think of a solution to a prob you all shout nerf there are multiple ways to get past a dictor just use your brains!! I've seen multiple pilots do it in low sec i've done it myself so stop whining You may notice that this isn't a whine, and I tried to note that in my first post. If you would prefer, I could bold it, put it in all caps, and underline it.
DarknessInc Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.12.29 23:41:00 - [16] Originally by: Morcam Edited by: Morcam on 29/12/2007 23:40:17 Originally by: dreamingtoday oh my god if you people cannot think of a solution to a prob you all shout nerf there are multiple ways to get past a dictor just use your brains!! I've seen multiple pilots do it in low sec i've done it myself so stop whining You may notice that this isn't a whine, and I tried to note that in my first post. If you would prefer, I could bold it, put it in all caps, and underline it. actually it is. Your whining about how a Heavy Dictor is 'unbalanced'. You can say NO ITS NOT, but it still is in the end. I can call my Broadsword a Phobos all I want, but it wont turn pink and into a gallente ship. Now read above, my post. And try to argue against that reasoning Originally by: Viator Pilot Now I will go back to agents, already without the desire of adventures on the ass :)
britishfish Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.12.29 23:44:00 - [17] i fly a broadsword and there awsome but for solo your neck is on the line if anything else jumps in while your attacking a hauler say your in trouble if your tanking the guns. also a t2 hauler(what my alt flys) could easy out run a heavy dictor ie jumps through the gate and gets scrammed. theres a few threads on this now and tbh its about time the risk was put back into low sec and 0.0 you want to move stuff round 0.0 or low sec to make isk ? get a escort/scout and tbh just on the minmatar one the lock time is crap even with a t2 sensor booster for attacking t2 blockade runners imo. guess bottom line is get a t2 hauler and fit for out running possible heavy dictor camps well in low sec anyway in 0.0 your good as dead A Dream is a goal without a plan. "No guts , no glory."
Kharadran Sullath Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.29 23:44:00 - [18] Edited by: Kharadran Sullath on 29/12/2007 23:44:34 Originally by: DarknessInc Originally by: Morcam Edited by: Morcam on 29/12/2007 23:40:17 Originally by: dreamingtoday oh my god if you people cannot think of a solution to a prob you all shout nerf there are multiple ways to get past a dictor just use your brains!! I've seen multiple pilots do it in low sec i've done it myself so stop whining You may notice that this isn't a whine, and I tried to note that in my first post. If you would prefer, I could bold it, put it in all caps, and underline it. actually it is. Your whining about how a Heavy Dictor is 'unbalanced'. You can say NO ITS NOT, but it still is in the end. I can call my Broadsword a Phobos all I want, but it wont turn pink and into a gallente ship. Now read above, my post. And try to argue against that reasoning But then tell me, when is the next time you would consider getting in a HAC for gang pvp? ------ Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull** and troll. If you are deaf**, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.29 23:46:00 - [19] Originally by: Jimer Lins Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 29/12/2007 23:15:30 Currently WCS have lost any meaning. The only counter to gatecamps is very fast warping speed or a cloak (better both). Naturally that mean that moving BC/BS in low sec is a pain in the a* as the only option is the cloak and slowboating away from the campers ships before warping. To the poster above, scout work only if an alternate route exist (and usually the camped point haven't alternate routes), yes they avoid ship loss but don't make the gatecamp moreeasy to bypass. I've never seen a chokepoint that couldn't be avoided, assuming you're willing to go the long way. I've said before many times, if you're willing to detour through 2 or 3 other regions, you can find a way around. Balance the time lost doing 30, 40 or even 50 extra jumps with the loss of your stuff. If you think the camp will be gone before you make that trip, then go rat until it is. If not or you really need to move it, plan a longer route. The autopilot and the routes it plans are intended to kill you. Don't use it. Get Ombey's 2D maps, plan your own routes and live. The only exception would be a dead-end system having its entry system camped for some reason (Molden Heath has a few like that). In that case, wait or fit for speed. Tanks to CCP that is generally not true, the 0.0 area where my Corp has 0.0 access has 3 entry point from high sec: 2 are in 0.4 systems, 1 straight to a 0.0 system, all 3 systems are constantly camped (pretty logic, they block 3 or 4 regions). From low sec to 0.0 again there are 2 coke point blocking the 0.0 regions, again with constant gatecamps and looking the map in this moment I see 3 and 13 podkill in the last hour in the 2 primary***epoints. Some gatecamp can be circumvented, but for a good percentage the only alternate route again is gatecamped.
Commoner Caldari Emergent Chaos Bedlam Consortium	Posted - 2007.12.29 23:46:00 - [20] Originally by: DarknessInc 1. I am a Broadsword Pilot 2. Normally a Dictor has a LOW scan resolution. Your gonna have to stick around for a short while for it to get a lock on you. If this is lowsec and he is 'alone', he's fitted for a passive shield tank. If its with a few buddies, he can be sensor boosted. But this isnt the broadsword itself making it so powerful. Its the teamwork of the fleet. By itself, the Broadsword/dictor is a slow locker. OR this scenario. Medium-Large scale gatecamp in lowsec. Broadsword is fitted with sensorboosters, and has a reasonable locktime by itself. Tank is sacrificed and the ship itself relies on its teammates to keep it alive by cycling the turrets onto multiple different people. What is the major thing? Teamwork. Teamwork should not be nerfed because, thats what Heavy Dictors require. The low scan rez which can let any 2x Nano, 2x WCS hauler to get away cripples its main offensive weapon, the Disruption Field Generator. To bring it up to a decent effective camping weapon, it requires teamwork to either ENHANCE its scan rez or defend it against the gate guns. In the end. Shut Up. Broadsword's fine. Stay out of lowsec/0.0 if you dont like it. Fit Nanos&WCS&Damps and dont fly what you cant afford Correct me if im wrong, but if you look at the sig. radius of the mentioned haulers i can't see them escaping your lock with two nanos installed. Don't know if inertial stabilizers is an options since they increase your signature radius. I'm able to catch most haulers and get a lock before they warp of in my BC so i fail to see that not happening with a HAC. The need to fill your medslots with EW also obsoletes the bonuses on most of the transport ships in eve. I have been living in lowsec for almost 2 years now and my transport has been vital in the success because i've been able to import many t2 goods and sell them for profit on the market. The broadsword can fit a sensorbooster and some resistance stuff to permatank sentry guns (Given it has HAC resistances), along with some serious firepower. Thus a single HIC can easily kill a half stabbed / half nanoed hauler. If the focusing script disabled all highslots i could live with it, but as it stands, they're quite the pwnmobile. The worst pvp'er in EVE :
Morcam	Posted - 2007.12.29 23:48:00 - [21] Originally by: DarknessInc Originally by: Morcam Edited by: Morcam on 29/12/2007 23:40:17 Originally by: dreamingtoday oh my god if you people cannot think of a solution to a prob you all shout nerf there are multiple ways to get past a dictor just use your brains!! I've seen multiple pilots do it in low sec i've done it myself so stop whining You may notice that this isn't a whine, and I tried to note that in my first post. If you would prefer, I could bold it, put it in all caps, and underline it. actually it is. Your whining about how a Heavy Dictor is 'unbalanced'. You can say NO ITS NOT, but it still is in the end. I can call my Broadsword a Phobos all I want, but it wont turn pink and into a gallente ship. Now read above, my post. And try to argue against that reasoning You made some very good points there. If you'll go back and read my first post, you might notice that it's obvious that I don't have much experience with them. I admitted that in my first post. Also, why would I argue against your points? This is constructive, not a whine, remember?
Seishomaru	Posted - 2007.12.29 23:52:00 - [22] Funny it seems i have found the solution for this "problem". You see 2 days ago, I noticed a caldari HIC in a lowc sec entrace gate. I solved it pretty easily, but boardign my typhoon and shreddign him into pieces
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.30 00:15:00 - [23] Speaking as an experienced low sec cargo runner I would recommend dropping the stabs as they are useless against a HIC. This will bring your lock time back up, add a sensor booster with a lock speed script, mix in some sensor damps and maybe an ECM burst (just in case he is close and already locked). Inertial stabilisers in the lows will get you aligned fast coming through a gate so you may not need the other stuff. If you do need the other stuff remember to activate your sensor boost before locking, whack the damps on him and wave bye-bye. ECM burst should (if you are lucky) break the lock on anything close long enough for your jump to warp (assuming you are aligned). Of course this leaves you with agro so you won't be able to jump out of system right away. Pop a cloak in a high slot, warp to a planet / belt / safe spot and cloak. Then wait for someone to blink and make your break for it. Blockade runners are excellent ships for this if you can live with the reduced cargo capacity. I know the OP wasn't looking for "ADAPT OR DIE N00B!!11!!!!" but if you don't develop counter moves you lose. Simple as that. life is all about adaptation as are the best games.
britishfish Minmatar Fade To Black	Posted - 2007.12.30 01:31:00 - [24] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace Speaking as an experienced low sec cargo runner I would recommend dropping the stabs as they are useless against a HIC. This will bring your lock time back up, add a sensor booster with a lock speed script, mix in some sensor damps and maybe an ECM burst (just in case he is close and already locked). Inertial stabilisers in the lows will get you aligned fast coming through a gate so you may not need the other stuff. If you do need the other stuff remember to activate your sensor boost before locking, whack the damps on him and wave bye-bye. ECM burst should (if you are lucky) break the lock on anything close long enough for your jump to warp (assuming you are aligned). Of course this leaves you with agro so you won't be able to jump out of system right away. Pop a cloak in a high slot, warp to a planet / belt / safe spot and cloak. Then wait for someone to blink and make your break for it. Blockade runners are excellent ships for this if you can live with the reduced cargo capacity. I know the OP wasn't looking for "ADAPT OR DIE N00B!!11!!!!" but if you don't develop counter moves you lose. Simple as that. life is all about adaptation as are the best games. this should be applyed to all the whine threads listen to the man A Dream is a goal without a plan. "No guts , no glory."
Arachidamia The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.30 01:59:00 - [25] Basically this means don't transport large ships through low sec, and don't fly any industrials in low sec except istabbed blockade runners. Unless you have an alt of course... they are apparently essential for eve anyway these days ;) Personally I don't think the infinite scram thing was a good idea. It just makes low sec even less appealing. Industrialists will avoid low sec more, and pirates get less targets. Everyone loses. (Though on the plus side, now I don't have to waste time training destroyer to get some form of bubble )
Wishy Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.30 05:54:00 - [26] Just think about all the homesless pirates , They need to feed.
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.12.30 06:05:00 - [27] Originally by: Morcam Originally by: Captain Thunk Edited by: Captain Thunk on 29/12/2007 23:17:09 They also work just fine in highsec. I think solo industrialists should be able to warp around wherever the hell they like AFK without any interference from any body else - anything else surely ruins the game they want to play. CCP should nerf HACTORS to hell and back and possibly, while they're at it, add a flag so people can just turn off PvP against them as they may well not be in the mood or be in a ship that can't fight back. Sounds like a plan to me. THUNK! The stupidity of this post astounds me. Go back and read my post again, and try not to freak out the second I mention your precious little HACtor. The stupidity of your OP astounds me. Try not to freak out when someone blows up your precious little ship. You seemed to miss the sarcasm from Mr Thunk, you are NOT safe flying you dinky little hauler afk. Cry elsewhere perhaps?
DarknessInc Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.12.30 08:42:00 - [28] Edited by: DarknessInc on 30/12/2007 08:44:24 Originally by: Kharadran Sullath Edited by: Kharadran Sullath on 29/12/2007 23:44:34 Originally by: DarknessInc Originally by: Morcam Edited by: Morcam on 29/12/2007 23:40:17 Originally by: dreamingtoday oh my god if you people cannot think of a solution to a prob you all shout nerf there are multiple ways to get past a dictor just use your brains!! I've seen multiple pilots do it in low sec i've done it myself so stop whining You may notice that this isn't a whine, and I tried to note that in my first post. If you would prefer, I could bold it, put it in all caps, and underline it. actually it is. Your whining about how a Heavy Dictor is 'unbalanced'. You can say NO ITS NOT, but it still is in the end. I can call my Broadsword a Phobos all I want, but it wont turn pink and into a gallente ship. Now read above, my post. And try to argue against that reasoning But then tell me, when is the next time you would consider getting in a HAC for gang pvp? Simple. A Roaming Gank Gang. Depending on the needs of the roaming gang. Going for a pure gank? Maybe a Zealot or Muninn (on my specialization). or If I want speed, Vagabond/Sleipnir depending on the amount of damage and the targets we go after. Also. A Heavy Dictor is designed to help lock down systems. Want to deprive an assault enemy of AMMO, which would come in the huge cargo holds of industrials and transports? Use a Heavy Dictor or an interdictor itself if your in 0.0. if you nerf the heavy Dictors infinite scramble, then you HAVE to nerf the infinite scramble of the Interdictor Bubble. But no one whines about that because its in 0.0. Originally by: Viator Pilot Now I will go back to agents, already without the desire of adventures on the ass :)
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.30 08:54:00 - [29] Originally by: Commoner Correct me if im wrong, but if you look at the sig. radius of the mentioned haulers i can't see them escaping your lock with two nanos installed. Don't know if inertial stabilizers is an options since they increase your signature radius. I'm able to catch most haulers and get a lock before they warp of in my BC so i fail to see that not happening with a HAC. I've escaped from bubble camps in with a huginn on gate with this setup. If there is no bubble NOTHING can lock you before you warp(well maybe a triple sensor boosted stiletto, but he cant scram u). Targetting/Module activation delay is a *****.
Sabian Treehugger Minmatar Inukami Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.30 09:35:00 - [30] Originally by: blkmajik Edited by: blkmajik on 30/12/2007 09:28:55 The OP is correct, these are bit over powered in lowsec, but the reasons/counters here are lacking. Lemme explain.. First, the notion that you should be fast enough to outrun their lock is simply BS. I spent about 90 minutes in a covert ops last night watching a [WR3CK] gang in Lonetrek camp a gate the entire time. I saw at least 50 kills with not a single lose, even though the gate guns were against them. No ship larger than a frig ever got through, including ships with cloaks and MWDs. The Broadsword in gang was able to lock ships so fast that they didn't show up as decloaked on my screen before I got the overview message saying the gate guns again agro'd on the Broadsword pilot. Thats less than 1.5 secs, probably less than 1.0. So much for your uber 2.7s warp time, Gamesguy. But observing the real world isn't as good as math, so here we go: Using EFT, it looks like a dedicated instalock Broadsword setup with 3 remote sensor boosters will give you a 1.1sec lock time on a skilled viator, or 1.0 on a Stiletto.... joy Second, this particular camp created quite a wreck field. I've seen lots of these in the past week. That, and they usually put a few jet cans around 'for loot'. Now everyone knows that its easy to escape camps by fitting a cloak and MWD to get that 1 MWD cycle in while cloaked, so you can align, build speed, and insta-warp as the MWD cycle ends and you decloak. However, what if there are so many wrecks, that the odds of you spawning out of cloaking range are far against you? This situation accumulates pretty fast now :) This wasn't the first camp i spied on where several cloaked/mwd'd pilots had this problem. Simple solution is to have wrecks and cans expire faster around gates, just like how we deleted bookmarks around gates. I think 15 minutes is plenty of time for anyone who intends on collecting/salvaging. Third, there is no drawback to using scripts for this purpose. The ships still tanked effortlessly, and the lock times were superb. Sure the gang has some command ships most likely granting bonuses and logistics to help with the tank if needed (still 6-8 ships in total), but they did utterly lock down a gate for almost 2 hours without losing 1 ship and not letting more than 3 frigs get past the entire time. Give them something to lose. Killing lock time with use of this script would be the obvious solution. just my 2cents There you have it folks . So less targets in low-sec FTL

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