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Jet Can thoughts

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Selene Le'Cotiere Amarr I-Omniscient-I	Posted - 2007.12.30 03:19:00 - [1] One thing I have found to produce a "wtf moment", is how it is possible for a ship to generate a 23k-m3 jet can, regardless of the size of the ship. Even a shuttle can produce said can. That's enough space to store 46 shuttles at 500-m3 each. Just how in the Emperor's name is that possible? My proposal would be to limit the jet can size to that of the unmodified cargo hold. For example a shuttle could only generate a can the size of 10-m3, while a Hulk could create one 8000-m3 jet can. Yes, No, Maybe, "My god woman, have you gone F'in mad?" Discuss. _________ "Some would call me a Demon. Others, a Vampire. But if the truth be told... I'm a daughter of the moon and a Goddess among men."
Vihravend Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.12.30 03:26:00 - [2] Originally by: Selene Le'Cotiere One thing I have found to produce a "wtf moment", is how it is possible for a ship to generate a 23k-m3 jet can, regardless of the size of the ship. Even a shuttle can produce said can. That's enough space to store 46 shuttles at 500-m3 each. Just how in the Emperor's name is that possible? My proposal would be to limit the jet can size to that of the unmodified cargo hold. For example a shuttle could only generate a can the size of 10-m3, while a Hulk could create one 8000-m3 jet can. Yes, No, Maybe, "My god woman, have you gone F'in mad?" Discuss. Think of it more as a pile of crap floating in space instead of an actual container.. The only reason they put it in a container is to keep from having to 3dmodel all those items.. --- CCP -- Fix Mining Drones! In SAK 3+ years and counting
NightKhaos Gallente Seridian Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.30 03:27:00 - [3] "My god woman, have you gone F'in mad?" would be my response to that. It's a bug, but please please PLEASE don't remove it, we miners love exploiting it. CPU: Intel Core2 T5500 @ 1.66 RAM: 1024 GPU: nVidia GeForce Go 7300 GPU Drivers: 2.1.1 NVIDIA 100.14.19 Sound Card: HDA Intel Sound Card Driver: ALSA Version 1.0.14 Kernel: 2.6.23-gentoo-r3
Vihravend Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.12.30 03:43:00 - [4] Originally by: NightKhaos It's a bug, but please please PLEASE don't remove it, we miners love exploiting it. Since when was it a bug? --- CCP -- Fix Mining Drones! In SAK 3+ years and counting
Selene Le'Cotiere Amarr I-Omniscient-I	Posted - 2007.12.30 03:55:00 - [5] Originally by: Vihravend Think of it more as a pile of crap floating in space instead of an actual container.. The only reason they put it in a container is to keep from having to 3dmodel all those items.. Fair enough, then why not limit the can to the volume of material initially jettisoned, preventing you the ability to put in more material? A pay off to this would be to reduce the cool-down time before being able to jettison more "stuff". _________ "Some would call me a Demon. Others, a Vampire. But if the truth be told... I'm a daughter of the moon and a Goddess among men."
Selene Le'Cotiere Amarr I-Omniscient-I	Posted - 2007.12.30 03:57:00 - [6] Edited by: Selene Le''Cotiere on 30/12/2007 03:58:58 Originally by: NightKhaos "My god woman, have you gone F'in mad?" would be my response to that. It's a bug, but please please PLEASE don't remove it, we miners love exploiting it. If you take a look at my response to Vihravend, above, there would be no need to feel as if you are taking advantage of an exploit anymore. Said "Bug" fixed. _________ "Some would call me a Demon. Others, a Vampire. But if the truth be told... I'm a daughter of the moon and a Goddess among men."
Vihravend Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.12.30 04:04:00 - [7] Edited by: Vihravend on 30/12/2007 04:05:10 Originally by: Selene Le'Cotiere Fair enough, then why not limit the can to the volume of material initially jettisoned, preventing you the ability to put in more material? A pay off to this would be to reduce the cool-down time before being able to jettison more "stuff". See I tend to think of it the other way around.. Why is there a limit at all.. If it is a pile of crap as it was explained to me years ago then why limit it? You should be able to dump more and more otu there if ya like.. I dunno the answer.. Its not a bug or if it is a bug then its a bug that's been around since the very start.. --- CCP -- Fix Mining Drones! In SAK 3+ years and counting
Daphne Eveningstar	Posted - 2007.12.30 04:52:00 - [8] I'd be ok with making jetcans an item you must have in your hold to deploy, but they fold down real small, like 20m3. A dozen or so of them in the hold ought to get anyone through a big mining op without eating up the whole cargo to carry them with you. Maybe a couple sizes.
Selene Le'Cotiere Amarr I-Omniscient-I	Posted - 2007.12.30 05:13:00 - [9] Originally by: Vihravend See I tend to think of it the other way around.. Why is there a limit at all.. If it is a pile of crap as it was explained to me years ago then why limit it? You should be able to dump more and more otu there if ya like.. I dunno the answer.. Its not a bug or if it is a bug then its a bug that's been around since the very start.. To kind of go back to your initial response about having to model all of those items. There currently is no real need to do such a thing. We already have a debris model that could be used. The one for ship wrecks, only remove the visual effects associated with it (sparks and green "smoke" stuff). Voi-la... jettisoned space garbage. We'd just need to come up with some kind of catchy name/label for it... "Jettisoned Debris" or some such. Free for anybody to come along and pick up if they want, without negative recourse. Beyond that, yes keep it limited to the amount jettisoned initially. More to dump, create another pile of "ship poo". (Continued with a response to Daphne, below) _________ "Some would call me a Demon. Others, a Vampire. But if the truth be told... I'm a daughter of the moon and a Goddess among men."
Selene Le'Cotiere Amarr I-Omniscient-I	Posted - 2007.12.30 05:21:00 - [10] Originally by: Daphne Eveningstar I'd be ok with making jetcans an item you must have in your hold to deploy, but they fold down real small, like 20m3. A dozen or so of them in the hold ought to get anyone through a big mining op without eating up the whole cargo to carry them with you. Maybe a couple sizes. This may very well be an option to those who wish to use a less secure method of "jet mining". Make it a consumable item, once deployed, it pops when completely emptied. Otherwise it follows the same mechanics now for aggression and being paper thin. Tuggable with a tractor beam, while the above mentioned "jettisoned debris" would not be. As the component parts would break apart under the pressure of being pulled in. To add to this, I believe unanchored Secure Cans should also be affected by tractor beams. _________ "Some would call me a Demon. Others, a Vampire. But if the truth be told... I'm a daughter of the moon and a Goddess among men."

Daphne Eveningstar	Posted - 2007.12.30 08:07:00 - [11] Yes this is sounding good to me, submit the paperwork to CCP on Monday morning please
Selene Le'Cotiere Amarr I-Omniscient-I	Posted - 2007.12.30 18:16:00 - [12] Monday = Newyear's Eve + beer... I'll wait till Wednesday, when the hangovers are done. _________ "Some would call me a Demon. Others, a Vampire. But if the truth be told... I'm a daughter of the moon and a Goddess among men."
Commander 598 Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.30 20:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Daphne Eveningstar I'd be ok with making jetcans an item you must have in your hold to deploy, but they fold down real small, like 20m3. A dozen or so of them in the hold ought to get anyone through a big mining op without eating up the whole cargo to carry them with you. Maybe a couple sizes. Only if they don't come with a timer or a substantially extended timer...
Daphne Eveningstar	Posted - 2007.12.30 20:53:00 - [14] Yep I'm thinking pretty much the exact same characteristics as current jetcans. Probably even the same delay between jettison cycles. Does this mean if you didn't have any cans in your hold, and you right-clicked to jettison something, that it would poof into hard vacuum? I believe a warning box would be helpful if you had nothing to jettison the item into.
Shaemell Buttleson Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.12.30 22:22:00 - [15] They are inflatable and thats why they don't last long!
Shereza	Posted - 2007.12.30 22:51:00 - [16] Jet can = hefty trash bag. Not only can a trash bag hold way more (20-40x as much) expanded than the box it came in but you get like 20-50 of them in a box. Either that or it's super amazing nano-tech that can compress huge cargo canisters to an unbelievably compact size while at the same time being unable to compress the 48m3 of minerals (fake number) needed for a cruiser-sized afterburner into a space less than 50m3. ____________________ "Titans were never meant to be cost-effective. It's a huge ****." - Some dev(?).
Selene Le'Cotiere Amarr I-Omniscient-I	Posted - 2007.12.30 23:00:00 - [17] Originally by: Shereza Jet can = hefty trash bag. Not only can a trash bag hold way more (20-40x as much) expanded than the box it came in but you get like 20-50 of them in a box. I just had an image fly through my head, of Hefty Glad bags littering space around Jita 4-4. shudders _________ "Some would call me a Demon. Others, a Vampire. But if the truth be told... I'm a daughter of the moon and a Goddess among men."
Packtu'sa Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp	Posted - 2007.12.31 00:25:00 - [18] Jetcans are flimsy by nature; notice it mentions that due to the 'rigors of space', they only last two hours. Come on; containers can last on a planet with full weather systems for longer than two hours. These things must be really flimsy if they can't last for two hours floating in a vacuum. They can hold a lot, yes; they sure as hell don't look it, but that's another issue. Imagine if every time your shuttle dropped a blueprint it created a container the size of a dreadnought.. yes, it'd be more realistic relative to the size of Giant Secure Containers and whatnot, but compare the assembled volume of a dreadnought to the storage of a jetcan... and then you need to make them tiny again. Packtu'sa Founder/CEO Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp [NCIC] Starbase Fuel Calculator


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